Apartment deposit shamefully robbed

[clarky cat]

I'd been living with my partner in a hotel/apartment found through booking.com 

 

I signed a 3-month contract and let them know before the final month we'd be moving out

 

The next room we were moving to became available 2-weeks earlier than planned, so we were happy to move earlier and have an overlap for a little more money.

 

As the room served as a hotel too, we offered to move out everything and return the key so they could use it for other customers.

 

The owner was happy with this arrangement and even kindly offered to pay back the 2-weeks rent...

 

When we checked out we were told by the owner's wife that we'd broken the contract moving out early. She conveniently made up a 'check-out early fee' (not in the contract) which meant that we lost the deposit, and also wouldn't get the 2-week's rent promised.

 

After trying to contact the owner several times he eventually called back apologising and said he'd hidden this from his wife and that he'd transfer the money back that day. Several days later after no payment we tried contacting him and he then blocked my partner's number (my number worked fine when trying to call him but still no answer)

 

We then drove back to the hotel asking why we had been charged this fee when we'd paid the full contract. The staff passed on the message and the owner called back to say he transferred back the 2-weeks rent (which we did) but doesn't have enough money to pay back the deposit.

 

In the 10 years i've been coming here i've never been scammed in such a shameful way.

 

What's the best way to act on this? They have 150+ fairly positive reviews on booking.com/google 

 

It's more about principal than the money, the owner is rich and isn't shy in showing it with new unused vehicles surrounding the lobby and carpark.

[madmen]

Unfortunately many landlords have already spent  the deposit on the first day eg to gamble or buy a new TV.

 

The joys of renting in Thailand !!!

[impulse]

55 minutes ago, clarky cat said:

What's the best way to act on this?

 

Call it "tuition" and move on.  Life's too short to hold resentments.  That grudge is a pit in your stomach, not theirs.  The one you're resenting doesn't care.

 

And with Thai defamation laws and concept of face, chances are you'll make it even worse for yourself than you make it for them.

 

[Thongkorn]

16 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Call it "tuition" and move on.  Life's too short to hold resentments.  That grudge is a pit in your stomach, not theirs.  The one you're resenting doesn't care.

 

And with Thai defamation laws and concept of face, chances are you'll make it even worse for yourself than you make it for them.

 

Why should every one just give in and walk away, stand up to them then they will learn.

 

[SteveK]

19 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

Why should every one just give in and walk away, stand up to them then they will learn.

 

Standing up to Thais in Thailand almost certainly won't end well.

[JimmyJ]

Thailand needs to get rid of their ridiculous libel laws that punish for telling the truth.

 

Then in a case like this the OP would post the story on a public forum and the owner's business would suffer as the word would get out.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by JimmyJ

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, madmen said:

Unfortunately many landlords have already spent  the deposit on the first day eg to gamble or buy a new TV.

 

The joys of renting in Thailand !!!

Business idea: Escrowservice for rent deposits in Thailand, everything judged by a third party after contract end -.-

[impulse]

36 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

53 minutes ago, impulse said:

Call it "tuition" and move on.  Life's too short to hold resentments.  That grudge is a pit in your stomach, not theirs.  The one you're resenting doesn't care.

 

And with Thai defamation laws and concept of face, chances are you'll make it even worse for yourself than you make it for them.

Why should every one just give in and walk away, stand up to them then they will learn.

 

I'd have chalked that up as a difference in temperament between my advice and yours.  Right up until "then they will learn".

 

No they won't. 

 

We're in their culture now, and they can run rings around us because we took our learning lumps in a completely different culture.  They started negotiating prices and terms the day they learned to talk.  We learned to look for the clearly marked price and maybe dig into the fine print.  Which is pretty useless where most things are negotiable, contracts are scarce, in a language we don't understand and based on legal concepts we've never experienced, and there is no nanny agency looking after consumer rights as we understand them from back home.

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by impulse

[madmen]

3 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Business idea: Escrowservice for rent deposits in Thailand, everything judged by a third party after contract end -.-

Give it twenty years and it may catch on. In the meantime for every rip off story your read on TV there are a hundred others that are to embarrassed to discuss it. So in reality you leave your 2 months deposit fully expecting it to be a donation. Renting here is a mugs game

[thaitero]

22 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Business idea: Escrowservice for rent deposits in Thailand, everything judged by a third party after contract end -.-

Or trustworthy agents who really weed out bad tenants and and bad landlords in order to get their services,,

 

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, clarky cat said:

What's the best way to act on this? They have 150+ fairly positive reviews on booking.com/google

It's more about principal than the money, the owner is rich and isn't shy in showing it with new unused vehicles surrounding the lobby and carpark.

Complain to the Tourist Police and also the local office of consumer protection. Also try the Tourism Authority of Thailand, or call the national hotline on 1111 and complain to them. It is the job of all those groups to help you.

 

There is no excuse for the hotel treating you like that. They are just thieves and they deserve to be punished. As long as people dont complain the problem will just continue forever.

 

It is situations like this that give all of Thailand a bad name.

[Happy Grumpy]

3 hours ago, clarky cat said:

In the 10 years i've been coming here i've never been scammed in such a shameful way.

10 years?

 

You've done well. 

[shaurene]

I would really go for Booking.Com. Tell them the story and hod them responsible to get your money back. Tell them you will post this all over the internet that Booking.Com did not support you with their help.

[taninthai]

I don’t get it ,,,,if I moved out a place early and broke the contract i wouldn’t really expect my deposit back..........the r3turn of the two week rent seems like a disagreement between husband and wife....again I don’t really see a scam here ......if you break a contract there is consequences to pay.

[watcharacters]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

there is no nanny agency looking after consumer rights as we understand them from back home.

 

You characterize  consumer protection as a nanny state agency?

[rwill]

7 minutes ago, taninthai said:

I don’t get it ,,,,if I moved out a place early and broke the contract i wouldn’t really expect my deposit back..........the r3turn of the two week rent seems like a disagreement between husband and wife....again I don’t really see a scam here ......if you break a contract there is consequences to pay.

except he said he paid for the full contract even though he moved out early.

[saminoz]

Good report but fundamentally wrong!

This is not shameful but SHAMELESS!

Unfortuately, a common enough feature in the Thai psyche.

They can rob you blind while looking you in the eye and smiling.

[spidermike007]

On many occasions, I have found that it is hard to get money back from the average Thai. They readily accept the money. But, prying it out of their hands can be an enormous task, even when it is fair, legal, ethical and the right thing to do.

 

The best way to approach this, is to take every opportunity in the book to shame them. Facebook, twitter, instagram, any local forum you can find. Whatever it takes to sully their name. The ones who treat us without respect, and defy a contract and a promise to return funds, deserve that.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

52 minutes ago, shaurene said:

I would really go for Booking.Com. Tell them the story and hod them responsible to get your money back. Tell them you will post this all over the internet that Booking.Com did not support you with their help.

I agree, this is the way to go, but I'd avoid issuing threats until such time as it appears you're getting nowhere; stick to the facts and the 'reasonable' approach first, booking.com may be amenable to putting pressure on your landlord. If it then appears you have to play dirty, it's very important to make sure that you can do so without blowback landing you in trouble.

[taninthai]

1 hour ago, shaurene said:

I would really go for Booking.Com. Tell them the story and hod them responsible to get your money back. Tell them you will post this all over the internet that Booking.Com did not support you with their help.

And what if the hotel has a policy of no refunds issued on cancellations?

should the customer not take some responsibility and be liable/accept any penalty clause.......again I don’t really see any scams here ...just a slight disagreement between the husband and wife on how they wish to run/operate their business.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, taninthai said:

I don’t get it ,,,,if I moved out a place early and broke the contract i wouldn’t really expect my deposit back..........the r3turn of the two week rent seems like a disagreement between husband and wife....again I don’t really see a scam here ......if you break a contract there is consequences to pay.

Agree.  And the landlord returned the 2 weeks rent payment left in the contract.  I don't really see a scam either.  

[Kwasaki]

14 hours ago, clarky cat said:

What's the best way to act on this? They have 150+ fairly positive reviews on booking.com/google 

Firstly somewhere else probably cheaper than a hotel and move out.

150+ positives !!  give a negative one and move on.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Kwasaki

[spidermike007]

10 minutes ago, taninthai said:

And what if the hotel has a policy of no refunds issued on cancellations?

should the customer not take some responsibility and be liable/accept any penalty clause.......again I don’t really see any scams here ...just a slight disagreement between the husband and wife on how they wish to run/operate their business.

Wrong. It was a total scam. If you read the post correctly he stated:

 

The owner was happy with this arrangement and even kindly offered to pay back the 2-weeks rent...

 

When we checked out we were told by the owner's wife that we'd broken the contract moving out early. She conveniently made up a 'check-out early fee' (not in the contract) which meant that we lost the deposit, and also wouldn't get the 2-week's rent promised.

 

So, the money was never returned, after a promise and agreement from the owner. A promise is a promise. The word has to be good for something, right? 

[taninthai]

14 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Wrong. It was a total scam. If you read the post correctly he stated:

 

The owner was happy with this arrangement and even kindly offered to pay back the 2-weeks rent...

 

When we checked out we were told by the owner's wife that we'd broken the contract moving out early. She conveniently made up a 'check-out early fee' (not in the contract) which meant that we lost the deposit, and also wouldn't get the 2-week's rent promised.

 

So, the money was never returned, after a promise and agreement from the owner. A promise is a promise. The word has to be good for something, right? 

What about the promise and signed contract to rent for three months...things work both ways you know......yes husband and wife have different views on how they wanted to handle the early departure  ......still no scam....come and sign a contract to rent my place for a specified time an I would also not return deposit or any monies for rentpaid in advance if you decided to move early.

its called running a business.

[spidermike007]

11 minutes ago, taninthai said:

What about the promise and signed contract to rent for three months...things work both ways you know......yes husband and wife have different views on how they wanted to handle the early departure  ......still no scam....come and sign a contract to rent my place for a specified time an I would also not return deposit or any monies for rentpaid in advance if you decided to move early.

its called running a business.

Wrong again. The tenant acted in good faith. They discussed this with the landlord. Things change. Life changes. If you discuss these changes, and are up front about them, allowing them some notice, and they agree to them, and agree to refund your money, a deal is a deal. The injustice here is entirely on the landlord. The committed the crime. That much is clear. 

 

Sure, this is a business. But, they are leaving one room, to move to another. The room they are leaving is available for rental. No loss on the part of the landlord, so fair is fair. You can run a business like a scam artist, or you can be an ethical person, who follows a fair pattern of behavior, and treats others with respect, and still makes a good living. You end up with a good reputation, you have honor and pride in your work, and you leave behind a nice legacy, inspiring others along the way. Which path one chooses in life, means the difference between being a person of honor, and a lowlife worm. The worm tends to make more money. But, they are ill gotten gains. Only someone lacking in conscience can enjoy ill gotten gains, stolen from others. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by spidermike007

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

The room they are leaving is available for rental. No loss on the part of the landlord

The landlord incurs a loss if the room remains vacant for the period covered by the lease that has now been terminated. That's why many western leases explicitly state that the tenant is responsible for the entire period of the lease and if they want to break the lease not only do they pay until a new tenant is found (unless the end of the lease comes first) but also the landlord's advertising expenses for finding new tenants

[taninthai]

18 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Wrong again. The tenant acted in good faith. They discussed this with the landlord. Things change. Life changes. If you discuss these changes, and are up front about them, allowing them some notice, and they agree to them, and agree to refund your money, a deal is a deal. The injustice here is entirely on the landlord. The committed the crime. That much is clear. 

 

Sure, this is a business. But, they are leaving one room, to move to another. The room they are leaving is available for rental. No loss on the part of the landlord, so fair is fair. You can run a business like a scam artist, or you can be an ethical person, who follows a fair pattern of behavior, and treats others with respect, and still makes a good living. You end up with a good reputation, you have honor and pride in your work, and you leave behind a nice legacy, inspiring others along the way. Which path one chooses in life, means the difference between being a person of honor, and a lowlife worm. The worm tends to make more money. But, they are ill gotten gains. Only someone lacking in conscience can enjoy ill gotten gains, stolen from others. 

Ok if you think a business enforcing written contracts is classed as being a scam artist up to you.

the title of the thread should really be ...i broke my contract now landlord says he is keeping deposit...........as basically this is what has happened,some landlords would return deposit as goodwill gesture same as some tenants might say keep the 2 weeks rent as I move out early as again a good will gesture.

certainly no scam.confusion between husband ,wife and tenant but definately no scam.

[baansgr]

13 hours ago, madmen said:

Give it twenty years and it may catch on. In the meantime for every rip off story your read on TV there are a hundred others that are to embarrassed to discuss it. So in reality you leave your 2 months deposit fully expecting it to be a donation. Renting here is a mugs game

Considering ownership laws in. Thailand, renting can be the only way. Foreign condo OK, anything else forget it, and with the ridiculous common fees condos charge now plus extorniate sales taxes its becoming cheaper and far easier to rent

[Graviton]

13 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

Why should every one just give in and walk away, stand up to them then they will learn.

 

The law has changed in favor of the renters, they did check out earlier but did not break their contract, I would get a lawyer myself.

[spidermike007]

25 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

The landlord incurs a loss if the room remains vacant for the period covered by the lease that has now been terminated. That's why many western leases explicitly state that the tenant is responsible for the entire period of the lease and if they want to break the lease not only do they pay until a new tenant is found (unless the end of the lease comes first) but also the landlord's advertising expenses for finding new tenants

All of that is correct, from a legal point of view. However, exceptions do occur, as life can be unpredictable. As long as the tenant approaches the landlord, discusses the changes that he wants, and the landlord agrees to these changes, and agrees to a refund of the deposit, it is all good. It allows them time to rent out the room, they are compensated due to the tenant moving to another room, which was vacant, and everyone is happy. Except when the landlord refuses to honor the promise they have made. That is when a complete and total lack of morality and ethical behavior come into play. A verbal agreement carries weight. It is a bond. If a man or a woman does not honor their word, they have committed a transgression. 

 

In this case, the landlord dropped the ball, became an absolute fool, when it came time to return the money, and went into that bizarre place of fear and convention. They messed up, plain and simple, and if their reputation is sullied as a result of that, then they deserve what they get. It is only money after all. Life is much bigger than just cash. There are so many other principals that are so much more important, than the dollar or the baht!

 

Approaching this from a legal point of view, there is no benefit for the tenant to fight this legally. The system is stacked against them, there is not enough money at stake, and the time and effort and expense would not be worth it. However, in this day and age, with social media, one can shame someone mercilessly. Sometimes that is well deserved. I would not worry about libel. Those are laws written by cowards, to defend cowards. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by spidermike007