Laos or Cambodia - where would you relocate to?

[adammike]

On 5/30/2019 at 5:26 AM, thaiguzzi said:

Laos every time.

Fantastic landscapes and scenery.

Low population count.

Wonderful people, similar/same as their NE Thai brethren bordering the Mekong.

You've been to LP - nothing like it in SE Asia. Wonderful town in a magnificent area.

 

Everyone is different. Each to their own.

Complete opposite for me.

Happily live in the middle of nowhere in some breathtaking mountains, down by a river, in the Lao countryside.

I find Khmer cuisine very poor and uninspiring, and i don't like large cities. Nor traffic.

Nice people though.

My favourite large city in SE Asia (not been to Vietnam yet tho) is Vientienne, unfortunately rush hour traffic has been becoming a problem for a few years now.

The traffic is definitely something to consider having see the pace of  change in PP and Sihanoukville over a few years it's something to behold,as is the traffic in Thailand.

[Isaanbiker]

One more for Laos, but I've seen two hospitals there and I was healed. If you speak Isaan, many people understand you in Laos, and their English seems to better than those of Thai people in general. 

 

 Cambodia has some great places near the beach while Laos is landlocked. I love the beach

 

     But let's face it. Should I get seriously sick in Thailand in the evening, or on a weekend, the better hospitals wouldn't be of help if there's no doctor available.

 

   If you really want to relocate, read as much as you can on blogs and on some Facebook pages to make sure that you don't regret your step.

 

   Why did you not mention Vietnam? From my understanding better than Laos and Cambodia combined. 

 

  

 

   

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 6/1/2019 at 7:55 PM, Jerry787 said:

Laos if you look for more relaxing and safer environment, considering if you relocate in the capital you got the decent hospital in Udon at 90 min drive.

 

 

One poster above said a Laos business visa was easy for like $500....  A later different poster above said Laos visa almost impossible...

 

You wanna chime in with an opinion on how to stay legally in Laos and what's involved in accomplishing that?

 

[ThomasThBKK]

40 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

One more for Laos, but I've seen two hospitals there and I was healed. If you speak Isaan, many people understand you in Laos, and their English seems to better than those of Thai people in general. 

 

https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/singapore-top-laos-bottom-english-proficiency doesn't really seem so

[bluesky3000]

Definitely neither, idk why you would decide on these 2 countries

[Mike Teavee]

On 6/3/2019 at 7:56 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

 

https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/singapore-top-laos-bottom-english-proficiency doesn't really seem so

Interestingly Cambodia & Laos came bottom 2 & VIetnam scored higher than Thailand.

 

As an aside, the standard of English in Singapore seems to be declining & you hear far more people speaking in "Chinese" (Not sure whether it's Mandarin, Hokkien or what) than you used to, especially younger people (late teens/early 20s).

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Mel52]

You could try Antarctica you don’t need a visa there and it’s an entire continent. Just be sure and bring a sweater. [emoji23]

 

 

 

 

[simon43]

24 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

You could try Antarctica you don’t need a visa there and it’s an entire continent. Just be sure and bring a sweater.

 

 

 

 

In fact, after some serious thought, I have decided that if I'm going to relocate, and since I'm not getting any younger etc, I have made the decision to relocate back to Andorra (the tiny country in the Pyrenee mountains) where I used to live in the 90's.  Andorra is often considered as a tax haven for the rich (it is!).  But surprisingly, it is also a lowish-cost location for those of more modest means.

 

There's a thread by me in the Pub about this.  But let's consider the Laos-Cambodia discussions here, since it's maybe useful background information for others.

[marcusarelus]

On 6/3/2019 at 6:16 PM, Isaanbiker said:

 

  But let's face it. Should I get seriously sick in Thailand in the evening, or on a weekend, the better hospitals wouldn't be of help if there's no doctor available.

 

  

 

   

Never a problem as many good doctors work at night in Thailand.  Mine has his own clinic so only goes to the hospital after 5PM.  Perhaps you have never been to a hospital in Thailand.

[marcusarelus]

On 6/3/2019 at 6:16 PM, Isaanbiker said:

 Why did you not mention Vietnam? From my understanding better than Laos and Cambodia combined. 

Try reading ThaiVisa as there many threads devoted to Vietnam there.  Always about the same - if you want health care the Vietnamese go to Thailand or Singapore.  

[myjawe]

Why some people still don't know what they really want at the age of 63 ?

 

[DaRoadrunner]

27 minutes ago, myjawe said:

Why some people still don't know what they really want at the age of 63 ?

I guess it's like this.... We all know the reasons why Thailand is not what it used to be. Yet no-one can find anything better elsewhere.

 

I compared Thailand to Cambodia, Vietnam, Da Phils, Bali, Laos and came up with no solution.

 

There have been many threads on this subject and we are not coming to a conclusion. Each country has its pros and cons, but none beat Thailand, though I wish one would! I would love to tell Thai Immigration to stuff their ridiculous requirements for a visa.

Edited June 7, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[Goinghomesoon]

On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 1:49 AM, simon43 said:

….But let's consider the Laos-Cambodia discussions here, since it's maybe useful background information for others.

No idea about Andorra, but like you I've lived in Cambodia, Thailand (Bangkok & Isaan not too far from where you are now I believe) and, most recently my least favourite of them all, Myanmar.  Cambodia remains far and away my favourite. Medical care is improving for those with private health care and you are sufficiently close to the coast, rural escapes like Kampot and big-ticket tourist items like Siem Reap.  I am biased because it is the place where I have made many local friends and we continue to meet up when we visit, even as we all move on with our lives.  There is a sufficiently developed middle class that value a lot of the same things I do; I haven't found that elsewhere including in our area of Isaan..

Vte and LP I enjoy but just find they have a bit less to keep me occupied. There's only so many weaving cooperatives and coffee shops one can see...  We also have a son who will be in early High School when we retire and from colleagues I think ISPP has it over VIS, though I know you wouldn't have to worry about schooling.  We have our holiday place near Phon Phisai but it will never have enough to keep me busy for more than a few weeks, and while youngster #3 is in school there's no hope in h*** of us living up there.

[simon43]

and, most recently my least favourite of them all, Myanmar.

 

Myanmar has been my favorite place to live for the last 4-6 years.  I only returned to Thailand because their internet international gateway is a bottleneck and teaching online is difficult without a fast international internet connection.

 

But having returned to Thailand late last year, I find that the 'sanook' seems to have disappeared, at least IMHO.

 

[DEQ]

An interesting thread, thanks to all who contributed. 

I know about Cambodia because I have spent most of my last 7 years there.

I would say that some Westerners would never be happy in Cambodia because they find the negatives overwhelming. 

Some, like me, find the positives so attractive that the negatives are tolerable.

So, what are the negatives? 

Mostly it's a case of  poor infrastructure - poor quality highways, city streets, driving behaviour, public transport, rubbish collection, corruption and poor governance, poor healthcare, poor education standards (with consequential lack of general knowledge in all levels of society), lack of functional sidewalks, crime (mostly phone snatchings and burglaries), general lack of adherence to international standards, e.g. no prices marked on goods, widespread attempted cheating by merchants, falang discrimination. Also Cambodians seem to love making noise so it's not a quiet place to live.

Then there is the unrestrained Chinese belt and road and casino investments. This causes massive construction with associated pollution, noise, immigration of Chinese nationals, oh and the beaches are now pretty much off limits to non-Chinese.

Anyone who feels that Thailand is pretty bad on any of these counts, and is seriously bothered by them, should avoid Cambodia because it is worse.

 

So what are the positives?

The longer you stay in Cambodia, the better you get along. The longer you know people, the better they treat you. It's a country that opens itself slowly to foreigners. The people basically like and respect white foreigners. If you are old, they like and respect you even more. After you adopt a bit of the local culture, a bit of Khmer language, a soft way of talking and behaving, all kinds of people become very warm towards you in your daily life. Some Westerners never achieve this and they never get to appreciate this major benefit of living in Cambodia. 

The Westerners in Cambodia are mostly interesting guys. It's possible to have intelligent discussions. Out and out mongers are out of place. Most Westerners have respect for the local culture.

House rentals are reasonable ($300 per month gets you a good place in Phnom Penh). Apartments done up to Western standards are expensive, however. Electricity is expensive so if you like to use aircon a lot, it will get pricey.  Don't use agents to find apartments, strangely they only offer places at twice the market price.

Retirement visas are available to anyone over 55. They cost $300 per year, no income requirement.

Khmer food is OK. PP has a lot of restaurants that serve good Western food at reasonable prices.

A wide range of smoking materials are available at reasonable prices. Rolling tobacco in the market costs $5 per kilo. Golden Virginia $22 per 250g box. One litre bottles of decent Scotch cost $10. Good wines start at $8 per 75cl bottle.

Nightlife in PP is excellent if you like the general bar or hostess bar kind of place. There are no go-go bars or nudity. You can have a lot of fun in the bars for reasonable money. Drink prices are low. Imported wines and whiskies are especially good. There is a good live music scene. Women over the age of 25 consider themselves too old to be of any interest to Khmer men and will generally have a very good attitude towards Western men.

A lot of guys live with beautiful and trustworthy women.

Getting around in PP is now very easy and inexpensive thanks to the ride-sharing apps. Dealing and haggling with tuk-tuk drivers is not a pleasant experience.

PP airport is easy to use and get through. There are $50 one-way flights to BKK and KUL with Airasia and the various new Chinese carriers. 

 

So, those are the facts to help you make your choices.

 

 

 

[CaptainJack]

I apologize if someone has already addressed this for you, specifically La Prabang.  I jumped to the end. I spent a week there last year, before the Chinese BRI program got underway on the dams and train system.   

 

 

I read La Prabang is not what it was recently.   Apparently there is a large Chinese settlement of works close by,  and as with any place where you have major construction projects and cultural issues,  I read there are problems. 

 

You may want to investigate this.  

 

Good luck.  I'll be back in SE Asia in September.  Will probably spend some time in Siem Reap. I'll set this topic to monitor. 

 

CJ

[simon43]

Captain Jack, I'm in Luang Prabang right now and have been taking my personal items across every weekend from my rented house in Bueng Kan to my new house in lp. 

 

There are Chinese tourists and rail workers in town. Unlike snookyville, the heart of lp is UNESCO protected (and that's where I live). Public smoking is not allowed and the rail workers are kept to an area in the sw of town. Several Vietnamese hooker places look after their needs! 

I see little change since I lived here in 2013. Outside town, the roads are better, the mobile internet is about 10 times faster than Thailand (I tested it). 

This morning I jogged safely in town (no fast cars or ghost riders). then jogged up and over Mount poussi (I must be mad!). before enjoying freshly baked French baguette, fresh buffalo yoghurt and lao coffee... 

 

[Pattaya46]

42 minutes ago, simon43 said:

// the mobile internet is about 10 times faster than Thailand (I tested it). 

Uh? Could you be more precise? I saw guys showing SpeedTest over 50 Mbps on their mobile in Thailand. I doubt Laos offers 500 Mbps !

AIS here is the fastest with an average download speed of 15-20 Mbps.

[simon43]

5 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Uh? Could you be more precise? I saw guys showing SpeedTest over 50 Mbps on their mobile in Thailand. I doubt Laos offers 500 Mbps !

AIS here is the fastest with an average download speed of 15-20 Mbps.

I have an unlimited internet access monthly package with DTAC, prepaid.  The maximum advertised speed is 4 Mbps and that's what I usually measure. They do not offer any higher rates for  prepaid SIMs.

 

Post-paid packages do allow a higher speed...

 

In Laos, pre-paid speeds are typically 40-50 Mbps, no need to have a monthly post-paid SIM.

[CaptainJack]

7 hours ago, simon43 said:

Captain Jack, I'm in Luang Prabang right now and have been taking my personal items across every weekend from my rented house in Bueng Kan to my new house in lp. 

 

There are Chinese tourists and rail workers in town. Unlike snookyville, the heart of lp is UNESCO protected (and that's where I live). Public smoking is not allowed and the rail workers are kept to an area in the sw of town. Several Vietnamese hooker places look after their needs! 

I see little change since I lived here in 2013. Outside town, the roads are better, the mobile internet is about 10 times faster than Thailand (I tested it). 

This morning I jogged safely in town (no fast cars or ghost riders). then jogged up and over Mount poussi (I must be mad!). before enjoying freshly baked French baguette, fresh buffalo yoghurt and lao coffee... 

 

That is great to hear. I really love La Prabang and the report I read was really bad. Fricking news.  You never know what is true or not.  Thanks for the update.  Oh! I read about the prostitution camps setup to service the Chinese workers last year in the South China Post. It was very disheartening because it talked about the exploitation of young Lao girls.  Just made me mad and sad.  I guess that part may be true.

Edited July 14, 2019 by CaptainJack
Additional information

[BritManToo]

On 7/13/2019 at 2:40 PM, DEQ said:

There are no go-go bars or nudity.

I found the girls inside the darkened bars got frisky very quickly after a $3 lady drink or two.

Tops came off very easily.

 

Apart from that, I agreed with your post.

Edited July 14, 2019 by BritManToo

[ThomasThBKK]

Uh? Could you be more precise? I saw guys showing SpeedTest over 50 Mbps on their mobile in Thailand. I doubt Laos offers 500 Mbps !
AIS here is the fastest with an average download speed of 15-20 Mbps.

It's horrible... Not

Screen from speed test app, dtac unlimited volume and speed...



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[watcharacters]

On 6/7/2019 at 5:21 AM, Mel52 said:

You could try Antarctica you don’t need a visa there and it’s an entire continent. Just be sure and bring a sweater.

 

 

 

 

 

Now that sure as hell won't be a cheap flight..     

[Isaanbiker]

A tough one for our Pattaya members.

They'd miss their girlies from the girlie bars too much. Innit?

[Isaanbiker]

49 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I found the girls inside the darkened bars got frisky very quickly after a $3 lady drink or two.

Tops came off very easily.

 

Apart from that, I agreed with your post.

Did you get hit by bananas, or Ping Pong balls, right out of the blue? 

[jabis]

Doubt they have anything like numbers here from my phone tho ????

[Jingthing]

I guess it's like this.... We all know the reasons why Thailand is not what it used to be. Yet no-one can find anything better elsewhere.
 
I compared Thailand to Cambodia, Vietnam, Da Phils, Bali, Laos and came up with no solution.
 
There have been many threads on this subject and we are not coming to a conclusion. Each country has its pros and cons, but none beat Thailand, though I wish one would! I would love to tell Thai Immigration to stuff their ridiculous requirements for a visa.

Maybe look outside Asean then?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

A tough one for our Pattaya members.
They'd miss their girlies from the girlie bars too much. Innit?

Not necessarily.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[simon43]

I read about the prostitution camps setup to service the Chinese workers last year in the South China Post. It was verydisheartening because it talked about the exploitation of young Lao girls.  Just made me mad and sad.  I guess that part may be true.

 

Highly likely to be untrue, as far as Lao girls is concerned.  No way would the Lao authorities allow this - hence the reason that Vietnamese women are in town.  They're not Lao, so nothing for the authorities to get angry about.....

[CaptainJack]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Highly likely to be untrue, as far as Lao girls is concerned.  No way would the Lao authorities allow this - hence the reason that Vietnamese women are in town.  They're not Lao, so nothing for the authorities to get angry about.....

The article was probably not accurate then regarding the nationality.  Thanks for the comment.