SURVEY: Would you recommend Thailand as a retirement destination?

[Baht Simpson]

2 hours ago, vinniekintana said:

Are you sure they were not referring to Burmese?

The Burmese here could not afford motorbikes. Bicycles only,  There are plenty of Burmese signs here but this one was in English and Thai only.

[THE REVERAND]

The good old DAYS for Thailand are over. We have a government full of cronies 200 police and army march thru Pattaya and could not find 1 prostitute or lady asking for cash. This 200 could not find 200 Elephants who had trudged thru snow in Thailand. The police and Army are only there to pocket cash not long ago Expensive watches were given as gifts. China has taking over Cambodia Thailand is Next. Watch this space ____

[justin case]

if they do those "best places to..." they should include all the crap you have to add for immigration and then TH would be on the bottom

[Longcut]

6 hours ago, JaiLai said:

Things that appeal to me are:

 

1. I pay no tax here ( i work outside thailand )

2. Releatively safe

3. Been here too long and can't be arsed re-locating - where too?

4. I like the weather, especially if you have digs for example in North for winter / coast for summer etc. 

5. BKK has everything available you could ever need.

6. Nightlife is superb if you know where to go, albiet can get pricey.

7. Food is pretty good and avaialble all the time everywhere you go.

8. I pay no tax here.

9. It's easy to get to other SEA countries for a jolly, flying or by land.

10. I can build anything on my land without any sort of planning permission etc.

11. Nobody bothers me coz i mind my own business.

12. There's great medical facilities, albiet pricey.

13. If i wanted to i could root a different 20 year old girl ( or boy ) everynight of the week.

14. I pay no tax here.

 

All the stuff i hate ( and there's a fai bit )  i just try to ignore....

 

 

You can't build anything on your land. Because you don't own any.

[wwest5829]

I could not recommend currently. Mostly due to the inconsistency we here depending on which person at which Thai Immigration Office you ask, inconsistency between the written requirements and the enforcement of the same, toying with the requirement for medical insurance ... and if the smoke is as bad next year in the North, then that would be a definite health hazard. IMHO is based on my being a retired educator in Chiang Mai for 8 years, being 72 and having “pre-existing” health conditions which would make insurance unavailable or prohibitive in cost, and having funds invested so that I will not be parking a lump sum in a Thai bank.

[madmen]

14 minutes ago, THE REVERAND said:

The good old DAYS for Thailand are over. We have a government full of cronies 200 police and army march thru Pattaya and could not find 1 prostitute or lady asking for cash. This 200 could not find 200 Elephants who had trudged thru snow in Thailand. The police and Army are only there to pocket cash not long ago Expensive watches were given as gifts. China has taking over Cambodia Thailand is Next. Watch this space ____

And this affects your life how lol

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I wouldn't recommend Thailand to any one for any reason.

Too many rules and regulations for foreigners to stay long term.

Girls and beer are too expensive.

Too dangerous.

Too polluted (Chiang Mai air was a nightmare for four months this year).

The Thais hate/despise foreigners more every year.

 

If I hadn't already bought here, I'd be going to,

Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines all easier, cheaper, and the government and peoples actually seem to want us to go there.

The problem with the PI, is that it feels like one extra large Tijuana. That is depressing. The food is horrible, and the air quality is horrific, with that super low grade of fuel they use. I know many who have ended up in the hospital with pneumonia. 

 

Vietnam. I have never felt the people there are friendly, I hear for a single guy it is a lot harder to meet women, as much courting is needed, and most hotels will not allow you to bring a gal with you, who is not your wife. Been there three times, and found alot of the people to be like cold fish. I do like Cambodia. But the infrastructure is poor, the security situation is not great, and the Chinese are taking over. But, it is a nice country.

 

I tend to agree with some of the posters here about the government. They really seem to despise Western expats. I do not think the people feel that way. At least the ones I run into. Often indifferent, but rarely hostile. In Vietnam I felt genuine hostility on many occasions. Due to being American? Possible. We did some horrific things to that nation. 

 

I am staying put. There are enough things about Thailand, that I really like. Although I do despise the army and immigration. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

About 60+% thus far saying NO to Thailand in one flavor or the other....in terms of recommending Thailand as a retirement destination.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm safe in saying that 10 years ago if we had asked the same question/survey here, no way would the answers re Thailand as a retirement destination be anywhere near as negative as they are now.

 

That's evidence of the country marching BACKWARD instead of progressing, at least in the view of retired expats here.

 

I'd also wager, if you took Thai Immigration OUT of the equation, the numbers would improved markedly, even with A. the horrible rate of road deaths and injuries, B. the poor law enforcement and justice systems here, C. the continuing lack of democracy, D. the poor education system, and then pick your own E, F, G, etc....

Edited June 9, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[55Jay]

3 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I could not recommend currently. Mostly due to the inconsistency we here depending on which person at which Thai Immigration Office you ask, inconsistency between the written requirements and the enforcement of the same, toying with the requirement for medical insurance ... and if the smoke is as bad next year in the North, then that would be a definite health hazard. IMHO is based on my being a retired educator in Chiang Mai for 8 years, being 72 and having “pre-existing” health conditions which would make insurance unavailable or prohibitive in cost, and having funds invested so that I will not be parking a lump sum in a Thai bank.

That's it for me as well.  Not necessarily the recent policy shifts, it's the unknown inconsistency factor dealing with random officials, bank employees, etc.  Often times, you are loaded for bear after reading TVF, and then it goes smooth as silk, an anti-climax.  Sometimes it doesn't.

 

I've voted down Thailand for some folks I know back in the West as I just "know" they wouldn't deal well with the language barrier and how different it is here compared to their world.   Even if you learn a bit of Thai, can still be a struggle to get basic chores done, at least until you get some muscle memory going.  And then anything off-script can get difficult; for the Thai and the foreigner alike.  Life isn't easy anywhere but for a Newb in Thailand, wouldn't be my idea of a relaxing, enjoyable retirement. 

[Destiny1990]

For long holidays 6-9 months Thailand is still very suitable but  for retirement there are other countries with much more simpler retirement visas regulations.

 

[Jingthing]

if they do those "best places to..." they should include all the crap you have to add for immigration and then TH would be on the bottom

Exactly.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

For long holidays 6-9 months Thailand is still very suitable but  for retirement there are other countries with much more simpler retirement visas regulations.
 

Yes. Potential future expats need to be warned.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JaiLai]

You can't build anything on your land. Because you don't own any.

There’s always one.....


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, JaiLai said:

Why not?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

In the recent past I would certainly have recommended Thailand as a retirement destination, but unless you don't mind being treated like a criminal, with all this reporting nonsense, it would be pure folly to even think about retiring here in Thailand, no matter how much money you have.

[simon43]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

   If you don't have enough money to retire here you'll likely be strapped just about anywhere else decent.

I can retire to the 'tax-haven' of Andorra (not an EU country BTW, so all nationalities welcome).  I am not required to have any money in the bank for a visa and I can live modestly on about $1200 per month.  It is rated by 'The Lancet' as providing the best healthcare system in the world (yes, IN THE WORLD).

 

I can go walking/climbing in the summer and skiing in the winter.  Oh, local language lessons are provided by the government for free....

 

There are much better places than Thailand, if one bothers to look.

 

[steven100]

7 hours ago, JaiLai said:

Things that appeal to me are:

 

1. I pay no tax here ( i work outside thailand )

2. Releatively safe

3. Been here too long and can't be arsed re-locating - where too?

4. I like the weather, especially if you have digs for example in North for winter / coast for summer etc. 

5. BKK has everything available you could ever need.

6. Nightlife is superb if you know where to go, albiet can get pricey.

7. Food is pretty good and avaialble all the time everywhere you go.

8. I pay no tax here.

9. It's easy to get to other SEA countries for a jolly, flying or by land.

10. I can build anything on my land without any sort of planning permission etc.

11. Nobody bothers me coz i mind my own business.

12. There's great medical facilities, albiet pricey.

13. If i wanted to i could root a different 20 year old girl ( or boy ) everynight of the week.

14. I pay no tax here.

 

All the stuff i hate ( and there's a fai bit )  i just try to ignore....

 

 

I like #13 the best  ...... 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

I first met Lars in late 2013. Then he came again early 2014 I think, but that was exclusively down south.

Then he showed up full time early 2015, to great fanfare, big party! 

Then I remember it was right after New Year 2016 we had his going away party, which was a much more somber affair!

 

It was an expensive 'vacation'

I just wanted to establish it had nothing to do with the current visa changes which everyone would assume.  I agree most of the people I knew left years ago for different reasons than 90 day reports or a small amount more kept in the bank - those are minor issues.  

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, JaiLai said:

Things that appeal to me are:

 

1. I pay no tax here ( i work outside thailand )

2. Releatively safe

3. Been here too long and can't be arsed re-locating - where too?

4. I like the weather, especially if you have digs for example in North for winter / coast for summer etc. 

5. BKK has everything available you could ever need.

6. Nightlife is superb if you know where to go, albiet can get pricey.

7. Food is pretty good and avaialble all the time everywhere you go.

8. I pay no tax here.

9. It's easy to get to other SEA countries for a jolly, flying or by land.

10. I can build anything on my land without any sort of planning permission etc.

11. Nobody bothers me coz i mind my own business.

12. There's great medical facilities, albiet pricey.

13. If i wanted to i could root a different 20 year old girl ( or boy ) everynight of the week.

14. I pay no tax here.

 

All the stuff i hate ( and there's a fai bit )  i just try to ignore....

 

 

All these things appeal to me too, and if it was not for the many immigration issues and stupid reporting rules, this would be a great country.

[CGW]

7 hours ago, JaiLai said:

Things that appeal to me are:

 

1. I pay no tax here ( i work outside thailand )

2. Releatively safe

3. Been here too long and can't be arsed re-locating - where too?

4. I like the weather, especially if you have digs for example in North for winter / coast for summer etc. 

5. BKK has everything available you could ever need.

6. Nightlife is superb if you know where to go, albiet can get pricey.

7. Food is pretty good and avaialble all the time everywhere you go.

8. I pay no tax here.

9. It's easy to get to other SEA countries for a jolly, flying or by land.

10. I can build anything on my land without any sort of planning permission etc.

11. Nobody bothers me coz i mind my own business.

12. There's great medical facilities, albiet pricey.

13. If i wanted to i could root a different 20 year old girl ( or boy ) everynight of the week.

14. I pay no tax here.

 

All the stuff i hate ( and there's a fai bit )  i just try to ignore....

Pretty much sums up my reasoning, apart from 4. as I am lazy and despite planning to leave every April/May I don't - and its too bleedin hot!

The only one I would add to the list is there was no chance of being chased for alimony payments 30 odd years ago when I ended up here, the airports here have always been efficient, which helped when having to fly in and out all the time as well.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Vietnam. I have never felt the people there are friendly, I hear for a single guy it is a lot harder to meet women, as much courting is needed, and most hotels will not allow you to bring a gal with you, who is not your wife.

None of the hotels I ever stayed at had a problem with a girl in my room.

Not sure about courting, but I always managed to meet a few sexy massage ladies and they have their own rooms upstairs in the massage place.

[marcusarelus]

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes. Potential future expats need to be warned.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Really?  Who is the warning brigade?  Do they get extra stars or something?  I think that is the function of intelligence.  Are there really people so naive as to come to a country in South East Asia and invest millions of baht without due diligence?  One would be advised when leaving a nanny state for the wilds of Asia to adopt the glass half full attitude.  

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, JaiLai said:

You say here's too dangerous - expand on this. I've been here 20 year plus and been involved in no altercations at all - zero, hardly seen any either.....

 

You say here's too dangerous but suggest PI - really?

 

Rules and regulations are easy to meet if you have money.

 

I thought you got your girls for free coz you're a 'stud'? - obviously not....

Thailand is many things, but apart from on the roads and moronic motorbike riders riding on the sidewalk, it is certainly not a dangerous country.

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

All these things appeal to me too, and if it was not for the many immigration issues and stupid reporting rules, this would be a great country.

I have a friend who will guarantee you only 20 minutes a year (average retirement extension) for a minimal fee.  Perhaps you should look into such a service.  

[worgeordie]

The changes have not affected me,the feeling

when you wake up in the morning and the Sun's

shining,(most days),much better than freezing your

arse off, I don't think i could survive a British winter 

now.

There's certainly less crime here,never felt threatened

in the 31 years I have been here,nobody bothers you

if you just keep your head down and dont flash your money

around.

Sure the cost of living has gone up,but that's also the case

in the West too,but you can still get jobs done at a fraction

of what they would be back home,no council tax,tv licence,

car tax,car insurance ! VAT 20% !, etc etc ,so taking everything into

consideration i am staying..

regards worgeordie

[Thingamabob]

5 hours ago, connda said:

I do not recommend either retiring in Thailand or worse, marrying a Thai national for numerous reasons:

Immigration is now moving the goalposts on short notice with increasing regularity.  We all simply wait for the next shoe to drop.

No consistency in the application of immigration law between immigration offices if not between individual immigration officers, many who seem to have never read the current police orders which are published online.  They make their own rules and there is nothing you can do - you have no recourse other than to comply or leave.  
No sense of any humanitarianism at all as we recently watched a 77 year old Alzheimer's patient forced out of the country because she could no longer meet the newly changed Retirement Visa rules - but worse imho was that she has a serious Medical Condition - Alzheimer's...The Long Goodbye - and was a resident in a Thai Medical Facility for Alzheimer's patients, and yet this heartless government could not extend her a Medical Visa for her Medical Condition and instead insisted on her having a retirement visa instead.  The family could not afford the cost of care and the cost of the new Retirement Visa regulations implemented March 1 - so the elderly invalid with a terminal Medical Condition was shown the door.  It sheer lunacy.  Keep that in mind long-stay expats when you become old and disabled with medical problems as you'll be shown the door too in your hour of need.  

Thailand has the one of the most dangerous road systems in the world and recently was The Most Dangerous Roads in the World #1.  Traffic enforcement of moving violations is non-existance, therefore the roads are simply anarchy.  Drivers are ill trained and a large percentage are extremely aggressive.  This leads to a high number of daily deaths (average about 60/day) and accidents.
Northern Thailand is choked by PM 2.5 particulate that is dangerous to human health as evidenced by the North having exceedingly high lung disease rates.  This choking smoke lasted 4 months this year or 1/3 of a year from February though the month of May.  And at times this year the North had The Most Dangerous Air Quality in the World #1.
We constantly see Thai-on-foreigner violence.  The most recent telling incidents being a taxi driver kidnapping two Korean tourists, robbing and beating them with the excuse that they asked him to turn on his meter.  And the latest in absurdity was the recent plea from Phuket police officials to taxi drivers asking them not the "Cheat" or "Beat" tourists - you have got to be kidding!  "Pretty please - don't Beat The Tourist as it's bad for our image.  Amazing!
Xenophobia in this country is institutionalize. 
For those marrying a Thai and raising a family, if you are a male you'll have no path to permanent residency and given the winds of fate Thai Immigration could break up your family.  If your wife dies you'll need to get a different visa.  If you can not, you get separated from your family unless you are supporting a minor child.  But if your kids have grown, regardless of the sacrifice you placed in providing for and supporting your extended family for years - you'll be shown the door. No compassion; no humanitarianism.  
Live in the beach areas and they are a polluted, plastic stewn mess.
You'll always be an outsider, and outsiders are subject to two-tiered pricing.  
If you moved to Thailand because you are Buddhist, welcome to the new Buddhism where you, my good foreign Buddhist, will be charged money to enter their Thai Buddhist Temples to worship!  No longer do you make an offering, you if you wish to worship you'll be charged at the door for the privilege to worship with Thai Buddhists who pay nothing.  Not all temples, but its becoming a disturbing trends.
Volunteer to help Thailand, such as teaching school children English for free, do so at your own risk - it can land you in jail for being a philanthropist and deported.
As a foreigners you simply are considered a potential criminal.  As such you movements must be monitored literally on a 24 hour basis.  Not constantly reporting your whereabouts is a criminal offense, which will simply prove Immigration's premise that all foreigners are potential criminals.  
And the bottom line: You are considered a walking ATM.  If your money runs below some government threshold, even for a short period of time - you're out, and if you don't get out quick enough than you are a criminal overstayer and its jail then deportation for you.  So therefore there is no security or stability in creating a life in Thailand.  You are here on the whim of a government who neither trusts you nor particularly wants you to stay.  Just leave your money - and get out.

If you like living that Machiavellian existence - fine!  Some people are masochists.  But there are better places to retire.  I suggest looking elsewhere.  Had I not married 11 years ago, I would not now be here.  And if this Immigration dog-and-pony show get much more stupid - I'm leaving.  

So you have my take - I in no way recommend staying here other than for a short visit, and even at that there are much better places in this world to vacation.
 

Been here 40 years having previously lived and worked in Africa, Asia, the Near and Middle East, USA and Europe. Thailand is still the best place of all for me, now in my 78th year and happily married to my Thai wife since 1990. I don't agree with Connda's contribution in any way, shape or form.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, connda said:

I do not recommend either retiring in Thailand or worse, marrying a Thai national for numerous reasons:

Immigration is now moving the goalposts on short notice with increasing regularity.  We all simply wait for the next shoe to drop.

No consistency in the application of immigration law between immigration offices if not between individual immigration officers, many who seem to have never read the current police orders which are published online.  They make their own rules and there is nothing you can do - you have no recourse other than to comply or leave.  
No sense of any humanitarianism at all as we recently watched a 77 year old Alzheimer's patient forced out of the country because she could no longer meet the newly changed Retirement Visa rules - but worse imho was that she has a serious Medical Condition - Alzheimer's...The Long Goodbye - and was a resident in a Thai Medical Facility for Alzheimer's patients, and yet this heartless government could not extend her a Medical Visa for her Medical Condition and instead insisted on her having a retirement visa instead.  The family could not afford the cost of care and the cost of the new Retirement Visa regulations implemented March 1 - so the elderly invalid with a terminal Medical Condition was shown the door.  It sheer lunacy.  Keep that in mind long-stay expats when you become old and disabled with medical problems as you'll be shown the door too in your hour of need.  

Thailand has the one of the most dangerous road systems in the world and recently was The Most Dangerous Roads in the World #1.  Traffic enforcement of moving violations is non-existance, therefore the roads are simply anarchy.  Drivers are ill trained and a large percentage are extremely aggressive.  This leads to a high number of daily deaths (average about 60/day) and accidents.
Northern Thailand is choked by PM 2.5 particulate that is dangerous to human health as evidenced by the North having exceedingly high lung disease rates.  This choking smoke lasted 4 months this year or 1/3 of a year from February though the month of May.  And at times this year the North had The Most Dangerous Air Quality in the World #1.
We constantly see Thai-on-foreigner violence.  The most recent telling incidents being a taxi driver kidnapping two Korean tourists, robbing and beating them with the excuse that they asked him to turn on his meter.  And the latest in absurdity was the recent plea from Phuket police officials to taxi drivers asking them not the "Cheat" or "Beat" tourists - you have got to be kidding!  "Pretty please - don't Beat The Tourist as it's bad for our image.  Amazing!
Xenophobia in this country is institutionalize. 
For those marrying a Thai and raising a family, if you are a male you'll have no path to permanent residency and given the winds of fate Thai Immigration could break up your family.  If your wife dies you'll need to get a different visa.  If you can not, you get separated from your family unless you are supporting a minor child.  But if your kids have grown, regardless of the sacrifice you placed in providing for and supporting your extended family for years - you'll be shown the door. No compassion; no humanitarianism.  
Live in the beach areas and they are a polluted, plastic stewn mess.
You'll always be an outsider, and outsiders are subject to two-tiered pricing.  
If you moved to Thailand because you are Buddhist, welcome to the new Buddhism where you, my good foreign Buddhist, will be charged money to enter their Thai Buddhist Temples to worship!  No longer do you make an offering, you if you wish to worship you'll be charged at the door for the privilege to worship with Thai Buddhists who pay nothing.  Not all temples, but its becoming a disturbing trends.
Volunteer to help Thailand, such as teaching school children English for free, do so at your own risk - it can land you in jail for being a philanthropist and deported.
As a foreigners you simply are considered a potential criminal.  As such you movements must be monitored literally on a 24 hour basis.  Not constantly reporting your whereabouts is a criminal offense, which will simply prove Immigration's premise that all foreigners are potential criminals.  
And the bottom line: You are considered a walking ATM.  If your money runs below some government threshold, even for a short period of time - you're out, and if you don't get out quick enough than you are a criminal overstayer and its jail then deportation for you.  So therefore there is no security or stability in creating a life in Thailand.  You are here on the whim of a government who neither trusts you nor particularly wants you to stay.  Just leave your money - and get out.

If you like living that Machiavellian existence - fine!  Some people are masochists.  But there are better places to retire.  I suggest looking elsewhere.  Had I not married 11 years ago, I would not now be here.  And if this Immigration dog-and-pony show get much more stupid - I'm leaving.  

So you have my take - I in no way recommend staying here other than for a short visit, and even at that there are much better places in this world to vacation.
 

Thank you for writing such a brilliant piece Connda, I have read every word and all of it is so true, but there are still too many posters here who are too deluded and think Thailand and their immigration system can do no wrong.

[DogNo1]

At my age, approaching my dotage, I have three practical alternatives: Thailand, Japan or the USA (California.). So long as prices don’t increase too much, Thailand offers the best “bang for the buck.”  If Thailand were to become as expensive as California, then it would be back to the USA for me.  I suspect, though, that assisted living options will present themselves in Bangkok before long.  Actually, by renting a place large enough to have a maid’s room it is doable now.  The crucial factors will be the cost of medical care and medicine for me, I think.

 

[greenbottle555]

Retiring = dying with less pain. Thailand is not the place for that. Better to die near family and your own community. There are no elder homes for falangs in Thailand and no palliative care. All to common is the case where a falang gets "too old" to be of use and he ends up not having anyone who will truly care for him like change his toilet bowl and such.

[NoshowJones]

21 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I have a friend who will guarantee you only 20 minutes a year (average retirement extension) for a minimal fee.  Perhaps you should look into such a service.  

No thank you. I would not put 400.000 or 800.000 Bt into my Thai bank even though I can afford it.

This country is too untrustworthy, you just don't know what will happen next.

[Gecko123]

No.

Finding lasting romance here is too much of a long shot.

Road safety and congestion make long distance road touring too risky.

Dysfunctional expat community makes forming relationships difficult. Social isolation is a real risk.

Insecurity about lack of social support and elder care only grows as you get older.

 

If you approach retirement as a multi-phase process, and wanted to spend an initial phase of your retirement in Thailand, say 3-5 years, that might work out. Best bet maybe is for an early retiree who wants to spend several years here and then move on. Settle in some place like Cha-am, Hua Hin, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Chantaburi, rent a house, and explore local area. Wholeheartedly agree with advice not to purchase property or get married. Don't move here if you have below less than good health or have a lot of health risk factors, or don't have ample money to take care of yourself, because if you don't, nobody else will.

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Gecko123