Expat group launches online petition calling for TM.30 to be scrapped

[rexall]

21 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

Yeah, to be placed on a blacklist is a misfortune. To sign up for one is just carelessness.

Yes, but "sunlight" can sometimes be cleansing. I don't know about a petition as a direct level. However, if it generates publicity, which may make it less comfortable to officials to do their nasty business in obscurity. Note use of the word "may."

[Autonuaq]

Tm 30 and then you forget the tm28 petiton. Still the same problem of reporting for the foreigner left.

 

 

 

[Wilsonandson]

Since the TM30 rule has been strictly enforced has anyone been nicked? If so, have these recent cases of breaking the law been in any of the Nations media or social media? Just interested to know.

[KhaoYai]

22 hours ago, BestB said:

And how exactly do you know what the outcome would be ? Have you done something like his before ? 

The post you quoted says it all for me and I totally agree with you.  So many people say 'this is impossible', 'you area farang, you will always lose'. I wonder if any of them have ever done anything about the subject they refer to other than moan and groan?

 

At least the group behind the petition is trying to do something - not just sitting at their keyboards spouting off.

[natway09]

So it has been "transliterated" as they say.

I wish them well, but I have better things to do with my time

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, natway09 said:

So it has been "transliterated" as they say.

I wish them well, but I have better things to do with my time

Clearly , posting here to tell you have better things to do must be one of the better things ????????

[Wilsonandson]

So it has been "transliterated" as they say.
I wish them well, but I have better things to do with my time

If they succeed they'll increase your time and all us foreign folks time by reducing the immigration paperwork you need to fill in when travelling in Thailand. What's better than achieving this?

[rexall]

21 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

not surprised Thailand are strict on immigration

 

they can see what's happened to Londonistan etc. so just trying to protect their country

 

how many people signing that petition have been directly affected by it? very small percentage I expect...

Are you serious? Everyone has to report his or her comings and goings in the Kingdom. Even if it is not especially inconvenient for some people, even when they install online reporting, making  process more convenient and less painful, it remains draconian and painful in principle. What other countries come to mind where you need to report your comings-and-goings to the local police? I have lived here more than 20 years and I don't complain (much), but this is the most offensive thing I can imagine.  I don't see how some can be so casual about it.

[rexall]

21 hours ago, BestB said:

Getting PR is not as easy as it sounds even for the married and guys working for decades. Not to mention waiting time and non refundable payment of few hundred thousand.

And PR does not offer anywhere near the advantages that you might at first think it would. It is not like getting PR in the U.S. where you can pretty much do anything a citizen can except vote, such as work anywhere at any position you qualify for, and your work permit will follow you, own 100% of a business or real estate, minimal reporting, etc. I don't think PR in Thailand is anything like that, hardly worth the bother.

[dcnx]

Considering Andrew Biggs was visited by the police for simply complaining on Twitter about the airport immigration mess, you can count on Richard Barrow getting a visit as well if he’s the one who started this. If not, someone will get a visit. That’s how they operate here. 

 

How dare are you as a foreigner do anything to make this enchanting place of kowtowing and servitude look bad. 

 

Wouldn’t be surprised if everyone on that list gets a visit. 

 

 

[rexall]

21 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Unfortunately, the more foreigners push against the TM30 form, the more intransigent the authorities will become.

It's all part of "Thainess", so I don't think much will come of this petition.

I don't know if the story has "legs," but if foreign media ever takes an interest, Thailand could gain a reputation as oppressive, unwelcoming and unfriendly.  "The Land of Smiles . . . But be very careful!  When people show you their teeth, they may be getting ready to bite you!" 

[dcnx]

10 minutes ago, rexall said:

I don't see how some can be so casual about it.

Because they were broken years ago. Foreigners are slowly trained to obey here. You complain and are shitty about it until you’re eventually broken, then you comply as if you’re a local. Or you pack up and leave. That’s how the Elite keep power over the country.

[Guitar God]

23 hours ago, jackdd said:

Section 37 = form TM28 not TM30

Foreigners who entered Thailand under section 34, this is probably everybody here, are exempt from this 24 hours reporting when going to another province under section 37.

 

The author should understand the laws before making a petition about them.

Could you explain section 37 or give a link? When I look it up all I get is 

“The domicile of a natural person is the place where he has his principal residence.”

 

I think I filed a TM28 once, when I moved into my house.  Every time I return the Ubon immigration fills out a TM30 for me. 

 

Last time I did 90 day reporting there they said my wife (me) owed ฿2000 because I was out of the province for 16 hours and she didn’t submit a TM30. 

 

I’m here on an extension of a 1 year non-O and I’m not one of the most everyone here you mentioned. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Guitar God

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, ChipButty said:

Thats what worries me after 20 years I don't feel safe 

Yep, to a degree (18 years) - each year initially renewing extension for employment, then retirement and later marriage has always been fairly easy although there was always the nagging thought of "what-if" if the IO had got out of bed on the wrong side that morning - - but of late the potential for a major problem being raised always  seems to be there, irrespective of always toeing-the-line, on time, correct paper work etc.. Must admit it's always been easy - but the underlying "what-if" now seems more likely where-as for long term visa holders it should be getting easier. 

[Wilsonandson]

Just trying to picture this Tm 30 law in the perspective that if it were the law in the U.K.

For example. My wife comes back to the U.K with me. She has to report her address every 90 days at immigration. Then when we go on a holiday to the Lake District say. She has to inform immigration of her hotel and how long she's staying there.

Sounds like something out of a George Orwell novel. On another note I see the Chinese are using facial recognition cameras to catch Hong Kong protesters. How long until that happens out here in Thailand. I'm still expecting microchipping will become the standard at airports and borders. Stamped into the earlobe.

Sent from my SM-A700FD using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[KhaoYai]

31 minutes ago, natway09 said:

I wish them well, but I have better things to do with my time

It probably took you longer to write that post than it would to sign the petition.

[Wilsonandson]

Not sure if it's been posted before. Helpful video.

[DaRoadrunner]

While we are at it, lets request they abolish the 90 day report.

[ChipButty]

8 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

While we are at it, lets request they abolish the 90 day report.

And, every farang can buy a Rai of land

[DaRoadrunner]

I hope they know what they've done..... It's gonna hurt when they jab that microchip into ya!

 

(You want to stick it where????)

 

Come on guys, it is time we made our presence known. There are too many of us supporting Thai families and sick buffalos.

Edited July 29, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[rexall]

10 hours ago, Is this real said:

What makes anyone think that Thailand wants Tourists or Expats? 

 

Hasn't been so for years.

That's the grand obsession, isn't it? How do we get the money but not have to deal with the nasty, greasy foreigners? 

But it is an odd, nearly a sadomasochistic relationship the expat community has had with Thailand.  The more they beat us, the more we say "Thank you sir, can I have another?"

[lkv]

47 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Considering Andrew Biggs was visited by the police for simply complaining on Twitter about the airport immigration mess, you can count on Richard Barrow getting a visit as well if he’s the one who started this. If not, someone will get a visit. That’s how they operate here. 

 

How dare are you as a foreigner do anything to make this enchanting place of kowtowing and servitude look bad. 

 

Wouldn’t be surprised if everyone on that list gets a visit. 

 

 

Yes, I was about to mention it myself.

 

Andrew's approach changed overnight suddenly, from "hell in Suvarnabhumi" to "I'm just concerned about the image of our beloved Thailand", probably the script he's been given by BiB, and instructed to publish, if he cares about his next extension of stay.

Edited July 29, 2019 by lkv

[Megascott]

I've lived and have obtained Residency in five other countries besides Thailand.  In most cases the residency was easily obtained after receiving an VISA good for a year or more. Most countries give an ID card, like the Thailand Pink ID card. That alone should be proof of residency. The immigration people "IO" in most countries do not care where you live the country, since they can easily look up your residency registration to see where you live, they are only concerned with the qualifications of the particular VISA you are applying for. BTW, even Indian Immigration knew that if i flew out of the country, and then flew back, that i would still reside in the same place as my previous residency. because I had not moved, I just took a trip.

[rexall]

9 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I have no problem with a TM28/30 and the 90 Day Reporting, it allows Border Control too monitor your movements, if you have nothing to hide it’s not a problem repotting possibly apart from the queues but I believe you can do it online.

 

When my G.F. enters the UK on a Tourist Visa it’s straight through Border Control. We leave from Newcastle a few weeks later, no Border Control checks, for all they know she could have overstayed month/years etc.

 

Its a well known fact in the UK anyone in general who overstays or works is detained then released and told too report to the local Police Station a week later, most abscond never too be seen again or appeal and it takes years to deport them once they get lawyers involved.

 

 

 

Yeah, dammit all to hell that those pesky freedoms and civil liberties in the UK and the U.S. make immigration policy difficult to enforce. Ought to take a lesson from North Korea!

[rexall]

9 hours ago, newnative said:

    I would sign if this was causing a problem for me but it hasn't.  In 9 years living here I have traveled at least 30 times to Bangkok and made numerous trips to other parts of Thailand.  I have never filled out a TM30 on any of this travel and never had a problem with not doing it.  I'll file this under "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

The point is not about people such as yourself who don't follow the rules and don't suffer for it.  I lived (legally) in Pattaya 1998-2003 and never did a 90 day report or a TM30.  Never knew I was supposed to.  Years later, in Isaan, it became clear I was expected and required to file 90 day reports, and so began doing them.  Still never knew anything about a TM30 and never filed one until last year when all of the chatter about it was impossible to ignore.

But, none of that is the point.  So, I was lucky, I guess. Some people are being fined and inconvenienced for not filing.

Edited July 29, 2019 by rexall

[lkv]

20 minutes ago, rexall said:

But it is an odd, nearly a sadomasochistic relationship the expat community has had with Thailand.  The more they beat us, the more we say "Thank you sir, can I have another?"

Stockholm syndrome.

[ThaiLawOnline]

9 hours ago, tabarin said:

Stating the site is encrypted but failing a basic SSL certificate making the form details visible for DPI by Internet providers. Whatever.

 

Modified. SSL working now.

[rexall]

9 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

When Booking in to a hotel anywhere in the world they always ask for you Passport and take a photocopy which I assume is passed on to the local Police or Immigration.

Lets be honest why shouldn’t they keep track of you, have you some thing too hide ?

They shouldn't keep track of you because it is draconian, archaic, immoral and not proper behavior for a modern nation. In the U.S. constitution, there is an implied right to privacy, which means that the gov may not go poking around in your business unless the have reasonable cause to suspect you of some criminal activity, and this suspicion must validated by a judge who agrees that reasonable cause in fact exists.  Of course the system does not always work perfectly, and the privacy principle is violated by the gov in many ways. But the founders thunk this little gem up almost 300 years ago and it is enshrined in the way we think about ourselves as a people. Fortunately, other modern, developed nations are aligned with this at least to some extent.

"Why shouldn't they keep track of you, have you something to hide?"  Dude, you have it completely backwards! You don't go following people around unless you have good reason to believe they have done something illegal.

[rexall]

8 hours ago, tominbkk said:

Tend to agree.  the TM30 is a pain but I have always found it super simple living here, providing you are following the rules as stipulated by whichever visa you have chosen to live here under.  The only thing is the time it takes away from my working day to process, but it is not that bad and if it is going to catch some people trying to cheat the system then I am ok with it.

The level of convenience or inconvenience is not the main issue.  It is a lot more than a pain, it is a really BAD thing.  Think about it. Someone just might ask you to report those Jews hiding in your attic!

[roadrunner32]

9 minutes ago, roadrunner32 said:

I'm hold a retirement extension I been at the local immigration in order to fill the TM30 upon my return from my home country. But it was told me that I don't need to fill it just for that, but only in case of change of address, therefore it was also told me to came back in 90 days.

So what?