Scooter Wreck and Passport Seizure

[jvs]

AS usual on this forum people do not read and if they read they do not comprehend.

They regurgitate the same thing over and over again.

A lot of ops ask for advive but they already made up their mind and will not listen to good advice but tend to listen to advice that fits their strategy.Too bad.

It is not always the foreigners fault,even in Hua hin.

Contrary to popular believe the tourist police actually help people,i have seen it many times.

You can not help someone who does not want help it seems.

 

 

[SteveK]

The OP is already in the situation he's in, telling him what he should have done at the time is no help to him now. Even if the bike rental place has insurance, which is unlikely, claiming on that will probably prove to be a nightmare. So he can keep insisting that he was not at fault and see if a deal can be struck, or he can get an emergency travel document and get out of there. However, as 10k has already been offered and refused, it sounds like someone's tying to fleece him. As the guy was in and out of the hospital in under 30 minutes, I think it would be fair to say that he's not badly hurt.

Edited August 28, 2019 by SteveK

[SteveK]

1 hour ago, SteveK said:

The OP is already in the situation he's in, telling him what he should have done at the time is no help to him now. Even if the bike rental place has insurance, which is unlikely, claiming on that will probably prove to be a nightmare. So he can keep insisting that he was not at fault and see if a deal can be struck, or he can get an emergency travel document and get out of there. However, as 10k has already been offered and refused, it sounds like someone's tying to fleece him. As the guy was in and out of the hospital in under 30 minutes, I think it would be fair to say that he's not badly hurt.

If I were you, I would try and get a Thai friend to help you get a fully independent quote for repair of the bike, it may well turn out to be less than you think (and don't tell the bike shop who is giving the quote, it may well be someone they know and a quick phone call could see the quote quadrupled). Add on a couple of hundred baht for the inconvenience and give that to the bike shop. Then pay the guy who got hurt whatever the bills cost, but get a Thai to look at the bills and make sure they are not schoolboy forgeries. Sure, they're probably both gonna ask for more, but stand your ground, at least if you clear the issue you won't have to be concerned about being able to come back to Thailand.

 

If there's any funny business, particularly if they try and threaten you or refuse to hand back your passport, just go to your embassy and tell the truth about what happened and that they are trying to extort you, they'll be able to get you home where you can apply for a new passport. The people holding your passport are probably aware that it's worth many thousands of baht on the black market.

Edited August 28, 2019 by SteveK

[spidermike007]

Flip this thing around, and tell them your lawyer advised you to demand 50,000 baht from the family, as damages, for the nuisance they have caused and an admission of guilt. See how they respond. That is the way I would have played it from the beginning. Do not allow the franchisee (the policeman) to work you. Work him and the family, as hard as you can. Give them a very, very hard time. Do not play a patsy to their game. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by spidermike007

[jackdd]

Just get the scooter fixed at a shop which doesn't take you out, you have to do this anyway.

When they told you the scooter has insurance they were probably talking about compulsary insurance, which only covers medical costs.

Tell the family they can claim the medical costs from the compulsary insurance (actually the hospital can do it), so there is no reason why they could demand this from you.

 

Then present them the bill from your scooter and demand payment by them, refuse to pay anything, make clear that they are at fault.

Give them a few days time, maybe with some occasional reminders that they have to pay your repair costs.

99% they will not pay anyway, so then make the offer that you pay for your repairs, and they pay for their costs and that's it for you.

They might agree and then the situation is over.

Edited August 28, 2019 by jackdd

[Isaanbiker]

I never heard of such an estimate before. If the guy doesn't have a dl, you shouldn't pay anything.

 

     The cops decide whose fault it was and that can easily be changed in favor of somebody who gives them some money. Be happy that not more happened. 

 

Good luck!

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

I never heard of such an estimate before. If the guy doesn't have a dl, you shouldn't pay anything.

 

     The cops decide whose fault it was and that can easily be changed in favor of somebody who gives them some money. Be happy that not more happened. 

 

Good luck!

"I never heard of such an estimate before. If the guy doesn't have a dl, you shouldn't pay anything."

Him having a DL or not is immaterial.

"The cops decide whose fault it was and that can easily be changed in favor of somebody who gives them some money."

Sometimes they try, but if not to blame stand your ground. The police can then take it to court, but if their assessment is wrong they really don't want to do that.

 

[stevenl]

14 hours ago, SteveK said:

You're over a barrel I am afraid. No matter what actually happened, you will probably end up being liable. Not sure why you handed over your passport, I guess in the heat of the moment you were confused. It's not illegal for them to ask for your passport, and if you hand it over then that's up to you, but a big mistake nevertheless. There's going to be a cash figure to get you out of this and the longer it goes on , the higher that figure will go. I think you will be surprised how quickly problems in Thailand will go away if 20,000 baht is offered.

This post and the others from the same poster are incredibly incorrect. Ignore him in this.

[taninthai]

Haven’t read the whole thread but the por ra bor should cover there medical bills,,,,,you can get a whole new set of plastics for a scooter between 3 to 5000 bht.....

seems they are really trying it on here .....if you have a good Thai friend see if they will come to police station with you act as interpreter,get your point across,,let them know you want your passport back,,find out if other bike had the little tax sticker.

explain your position accident not your fault and you want your passport back.

You could threaten them with going to your embassy to report corruption and seizure off your passport but I don’t think it’s to clever to start threatening the police here,better just to stay polite and courteous but at the same time let them know you are no fool.

Edited August 28, 2019 by taninthai

[Deerculler]

Sorry.

I know this is off topic.

Can the police ask for your passport?

 

[Snackbar]

Not your fault, don’t pay a single Baht to the guilty party.

 

Get a Thai friend to accompany you to the police station when asked to attend. Present the bill for your damages, and expect the kids parents to pay you. 

 

A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Frazzled? - Tired or Drunk?

 

If it was not your fault, why would you be expected to pay anything?

 

If you were not drunk and not at fault, play firm. You don't have to pay anyone anything. They can try and get money from you, they can use threats etc... but in the end not much can be done other than create an inconvenience for you. The reason they expect or think you will pay is because other Westerners have wet their pants and paid up.

 

Trial over a damaged scooter ?? thats incredibly unlikely.

 

Report to your embassy that the Police have confiscated your passport and are shaking you down. 

Having been in a scooter accident myself, he's lucky the guy didn't die. Having given over the passport, he's screwed. I hope he has insurance or it's going to cost big time.

 

I was hit while stationary, but still paid for both bikes to be repaired, and the police fine ( 500 baht ). Luckily the guy that ran into me wasn't injured, but I was and paid large for hospital bills, though I did get some back on insurance.

15 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Report to your embassy that the Police have confiscated your passport and are shaking you down. 

Seriously? What do you think they can do about it? They've probably heard similar thousands of times but it's nothing to do with them.

[scubascuba3]

Even though not the fault of the Op, he would still need to pay for damage for the rented bike, anyone disagree? the 3rd party hasn't got insurance to cover damage to other vehicles.

A nice reminder to continue to wear my action cam while riding my bike

[scubascuba3]

 

 

 

I was hit while stationary, but still paid for both bikes to be repaired, and the police fine ( 500 baht ). Luckily the guy that ran into me wasn't injured, but I was and paid large for hospital bills, though I did get some back on insurance.

 

So you at no fault at all? or were you stationary in the wrong place? if not your fault you shouldn't of paid. Can't lose in court

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, jvs said:

Is the bike insured?That should pay for the hospital bill.

To my knowledge the insurance is only to pay for bike damage, if there is actually any at all, but depends on who he rented it from.

I'm amazed that the renters didn't take his passport, as that is the norm.

[RayHaas]

3 hours ago, SteveK said:

Edited 3 hours a

I been in this situation and had all legal. The rental shops don't have repair insurance. In fact the rental company should get involved to claim damages caused by the other rider. 

In my case the other driver at fault was also not insured and had no license. The rental shops insurance company came to the police station and demanded money from the family that cause the accident.

Needless to say the police backed off and it was all over very soon. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

 

 

 

So you at no fault at all? or were you stationary in the wrong place? if not your fault you shouldn't of paid. Can't lose in court

 

In the wrong place. Anyway, lawyers would have cost more than fixing the bikes.

[Colabamumbai]

A small payment to the party at the police station should get your passport returned, no need for court. 

 

[scubascuba3]

A small payment to the party at the police station should get your passport returned, no need for court. 
 

They rely on farang being scared and just paying up. If not guilty call their bluff

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, SteveK said:

If I were you, I would try and get a Thai friend to help you get a fully independent quote for repair of the bike

OP has 15 posts. If he's a tourist how is he going to have a Thai friend that would do that for him?

Edited August 28, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[Guderian]

Good to see the RTP performing their duties so meticulously, as usual.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Guderian said:

Good to see the RTP performing their duties so meticulously, as usual.

When I was lying on the ground bleeding, the cop that turned up only cared about seeing my driving licence.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

A small payment to the party at the police station should get your passport returned, no need for court. 

 

Times change. Might end up being charged with attempted bribery now.

[cnx355]

15 hours ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

They immediately showed up at the station with bandages after the accident. Within 30 mins or so after the cops immediately took my scooter away in a truck. It was actually fine aside from scratches. The cops never took a police report from me at the time. Only when I went back.

 

Today the family showed up with 7k of hospital bills. Said they need to return tomorrow for more checkups.

 

I have an IDP and US license. The kid that was driving the scooter does not likely have a license. No one asked, but that will be my next question. He's pretty young. Grandma actually had to show hers to get their scooter out of impound which was interesting.

 

Scooter has minor cosmetic damage. I need a new light in the front. They need various pieces of plastic. 

 

I can only assume the scooter I rented was insured. It was from a family business with 30+ scooters for rent. 

 

 

 

 

Normally the compulsory insurance for the other guy bike will pay the 7,000 B bill at the hospital even if at fault. But if the bike owner did not pay his annual tax ther in no insurance on his bike.

[Sujo]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Seriously? What do you think they can do about it? They've probably heard similar thousands of times but it's nothing to do with them.

They can do what they did with me. The passport is owned by the govt. If not charged they have no right to hold it. I called my embassy and the police returned my passport.

 

I was advised by the embassy that if police did not return my pp they would provide me with an alternative travel document.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

<snip>

Seriously? What do you think they can do about it? They've probably heard similar thousands of times but it's nothing to do with them.

Police is not allowed to hold foreigners passports unless a crime has been committed. They have been instructed to that, and embassies will get the passport back for the OP.

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Even though not the fault of the Op, he would still need to pay for damage for the rented bike, anyone disagree? the 3rd party hasn't got insurance to cover damage to other vehicles.

A nice reminder to continue to wear my action cam while riding my bike

The guilty party should pay for damages to the rental bike. Doubtful it will end up that way and OP will likely ending up paying, but it won't do any harm at all to tell them: pay up.

56 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To my knowledge the insurance is only to pay for bike damage, if there is actually any at all, but depends on who he rented it from.

I'm amazed that the renters didn't take his passport, as that is the norm.

There hardly ever is bike insurance, only the compulsory, which only covers medical or death (very limited), not bike damage.

Edited August 28, 2019 by stevenl

[NCC1701A]

"Give me back my passport or I'll give you a war you won't believe."

 

 

[emptypockets]

11 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

"Give me back my passport or I'll give you a war you won't believe."

 

 

I had to check twice who posted that. I thought for sure it would have been sm007.

[thaiguzzi]

54 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

"Give me back my passport or I'll give you a war you won't believe."

 

 

Really?

Let us know how you got on.....

[Skallywag]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

"Give me back my passport or I'll give you a war you won't believe."

Rambo Last Blood coming out next month.

 

Back to the topic of the passport. 

I do not see where OP has actually gone to the police station and asked for it back?