Scooter Wreck and Passport Seizure

[Solinvictus]

On 8/28/2019 at 12:28 AM, Youlike said:

Order your passport back of report them for keeping it....They had time enough to make a copy of it!

Yeah, did you happen to say that directly to them? These folks will walk on you if you let them..

I'll read through the thread to see what has been the outcome so far.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Solinvictus

[Solinvictus]

On 8/27/2019 at 11:33 PM, intheheartoftheheart said:

Yeah the police had a friendly translator lady there that offered to help. My hunch is that she works for them. 

When I return, I will bring my own translator.

Your right! Good idea! But, for speaking, interpreter would be the better word choice.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Solinvictus

[Solinvictus]

On 8/27/2019 at 11:57 PM, intheheartoftheheart said:

Yes, the police translator telling me I had to bring the bike back for scientific analysis before trial (I have this in a Line message from her) was the moment I started getting suspicious. Considering I had just pulled it out of a weed covered lot.

 

I don't know how often they spin up CSI here for traffic accidents. Was a new one to me. 

 

 

They probably didn't want to pull it out themselves, rather wait for you to do it.

Secondly, I'd never share LINE with them.  I think from what I can gather reading some of your choices through this experience (and I know in the heat of the moment decisions at times, I've been there), that you need to not be so naive when trusting other's to be acting on your behalf or in for your interests, not to mention more thought-out choices. But hey that's easy for me to say aye.

[Caine]

Much Ado About Nothing,

[brianthainess]

On 8/27/2019 at 11:02 PM, intheheartoftheheart said:

Is it stupid to involve the insurance company from the scooter rental company?

Do you have a motorbike licence ? (i do get annoyed with people here who keep on referring to motor bikes as scooters at 125 cc) if not you could be in more poo than you think. I would take the MOTOR BIKE and get it repaired myself.

[brianthainess]

On 8/28/2019 at 7:41 PM, BritManToo said:

It's always zero payment in a Thai government hospital,

NO it is 30 baht if registered on their I D as living in that province.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

Do you have a motorbike licence ? (i do get annoyed with people here who keep on referring to motor bikes as scooters at 125 cc) if not you could be in more poo than you think. I would take the MOTOR BIKE and get it repaired myself.

License or not, PoRorBor insurance will pay.

[RideJocky]

There always seems to be a lot of miss information around when insurance pays, or how fault is assigned in the event of an accident.

If liability insurance is in force, regardless of whether the driver is drunk or unlicensed, it still pays.

Also, that a driver is unlicensed or drunk has no bearing on the assignment of fault.


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[Vacuum]

On 8/27/2019 at 4:09 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

You rented a scooter that was insured. I would withdraw the offer you made to Police and tell the insurance company to deal with them.

If the bike had a valid 'tax sticker', it was isured (compulsory insurance).

Edited August 30, 2019 by Vacuum

[intheheartoftheheart]

Hi everyone, have a bit of an update so thought I would post this here for anyone interested. Also for the police that may be reading :)

 

Returned to the police station today with a copy of the scooter rental CPTL insurance. The bare minimum.

 

I asked for a copy of the driver's licence of the boy that was driving the other scooter. The boy was unliscensed (and unhelmeted as was his brother). Police explained this was a separate matter and he would be fined for it.

 

Police had the bill to repair the Yamaha I hit. 11,000 baht.

 

They then said that although the medical bills of the unliscensed driver were covered, there may be an additional cost for medicine for the young boy riding on the scooter. Plus the money to be paid for the older unliscensed driver for missing work.

 

I agreed to pay to repair the bike in theory but signed nothing. I said that I would need to consult on the other matters.

 

I was then handed my passport.

 

A tourist police officer joined us and they took a formal statement of my version of the accident, something they had neglected to do on the occasion of the accident.

 

The translator from the tourist police did an admirable job translating my accounting I am sure :)

 

They produced my statement and asked me to sign it. I said, no problem, but I need to get this document translated by a third party first for my insurance company. Of course they would not let me take it to do so.

 

After ten mins of back and forth they let me leave with my passport, signing nothing with a promise to return on the 4th when they know the additional medical expenses.

 

I left the room.

 

My Korean wife returned to kowtow without me and ask if they would accept a payout to avoid all the hassle.

 

They replied with 42,000.

 

That's where we are now.

 

 

[stevenl]

If you're not to blame, do not admit liability. As others have suggested already, ask them for compensation.

 

The police is correct in that licensed or not and helmet or not is a separate matter, but again, if you're not to blame they should not be asking for money. You having your passport back is a giant step in the right direction.

 

But why do you say you're not to blame, what happened exactly?

Edited August 30, 2019 by stevenl

[DJ54]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

License or not, PoRorBor insurance will pay.

I don’t know what PoRorBor insurance is guessing government insurance. Our car has mid range coverage (Swift) wifey hit the 

gas instead of brake. Went off the road hit a barrier.... she didnt

have a drivers license (dumb) insurance wouldn’t pay bill to repair  

car 160,000.

 

To this day I can’t figure out what happened Damage to three sides 

of car. I just forget about it.... 

 

i rented a moto in CM 400cc ran by Brit. They asked if I wanted insurance and cost a day. I 

Opted for insurance. 4 day ride triangle...

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by DJ54

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

I don’t know what PoRorBor insurance is guessing government insurance. Our car has mid range coverage (Swift) wifey hit the 

gas instead of brake. Went off the road hit a barrier.... she didnt

have a drivers license (dumb) insurance wouldn’t pay bill to repair  

car 160,000.

 

To this day I can’t figure out what happened Damage to three sides 

of car. I just forget about it.... 

 

i rented a moto in CM 400cc ran by Brit. They asked if I wanted insurance and cost a day. I 

Opted for insurance. 4 day ride triangle...

 

CTPL Insurance is PoRorBor insurance, the required insurance to get the vehicle registered every year. You're talking about a different insurance, and yes, they can not pay out in case of no license, drunk, etc.

But that is not applicable here.

 

In your case with mid range coverage most likely damage to the own car would not have been covered anyway, but the liability part (damage to barrier) would.

Edited August 30, 2019 by stevenl

[transam]

2 hours ago, Vacuum said:

If the bike had a valid 'tax sticker', it was isured (compulsory insurance).

How come..?

[Vacuum]

1 minute ago, transam said:

How come..?

Can you pay the tax without the compulsory insurance?

[transam]

Just now, Vacuum said:

Can you pay the tax without the compulsory insurance?

No, but road tax and gov insurance have their own expiration dates. My ride insurance ends in June, road tax August. So I buy the insurance in June when it expires, they staple the bottom part of the insurance paper into the blue book to show it is insured when I tax it.

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

They replied with 42,000.

That's all the proof you need, it's a shakedown.

[scubascuba3]

Hi everyone, have a bit of an update so thought I would post this here for anyone interested. Also for the police that may be reading :)

 

Returned to the police station today with a copy of the scooter rental CPTL insurance. The bare minimum.

 

I asked for a copy of the driver's licence of the boy that was driving the other scooter. The boy was unliscensed (and unhelmeted as was his brother). Police explained this was a separate matter and he would be fined for it.

 

Police had the bill to repair the Yamaha I hit. 11,000 baht.

 

They then said that although the medical bills of the unliscensed driver were covered, there may be an additional cost for medicine for the young boy riding on the scooter. Plus the money to be paid for the older unliscensed driver for missing work.

 

I agreed to pay to repair the bike in theory but signed nothing. I said that I would need to consult on the other matters.

 

I was then handed my passport.

 

A tourist police officer joined us and they took a formal statement of my version of the accident, something they had neglected to do on the occasion of the accident.

 

The translator from the tourist police did an admirable job translating my accounting I am sure :)

 

They produced my statement and asked me to sign it. I said, no problem, but I need to get this document translated by a third party first for my insurance company. Of course they would not let me take it to do so.

 

After ten mins of back and forth they let me leave with my passport, signing nothing with a promise to return on the 4th when they know the additional medical expenses.

 

I left the room.

 

My Korean wife returned to kowtow without me and ask if they would accept a payout to avoid all the hassle.

 

They replied with 42,000.

 

That's where we are now.

 

 

With motorbike accidents it's difficult to prove who is at fault. Your word against theirs, so often claims are settled 50\50. I'm talking UK but the principle is the same here. Strange that the Op said he wasn't at fault but is paying up as if he is at fault. I'd go for 50\50 for damage to both bikes. Insurance covers medical as mentioned numerous times

 

[samsensam]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

4 hours ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

Hi everyone, have a bit of an update so thought I would post this here for anyone interested. Also for the police that may be reading ????
 
Returned to the police station today with a copy of the scooter rental CPTL insurance. The bare minimum.
 
I asked for a copy of the driver's licence of the boy that was driving the other scooter. The boy was unliscensed (and unhelmeted as was his brother). Police explained this was a separate matter and he would be fined for it.
 
Police had the bill to repair the Yamaha I hit. 11,000 baht.
 
They then said that although the medical bills of the unliscensed driver were covered, there may be an additional cost for medicine for the young boy riding on the scooter. Plus the money to be paid for the older unliscensed driver for missing work.
 
I agreed to pay to repair the bike in theory but signed nothing. I said that I would need to consult on the other matters.
 
I was then handed my passport.
 
A tourist police officer joined us and they took a formal statement of my version of the accident, something they had neglected to do on the occasion of the accident.
 
The translator from the tourist police did an admirable job translating my accounting I am sure ????
 
They produced my statement and asked me to sign it. I said, no problem, but I need to get this document translated by a third party first for my insurance company. Of course they would not let me take it to do so.
 
After ten mins of back and forth they let me leave with my passport, signing nothing with a promise to return on the 4th when they know the additional medical expenses.
 
I left the room.
 
My Korean wife returned to kowtow without me and ask if they would accept a payout to avoid all the hassle.
 
They replied with 42,000.
 
That's where we are now.
 
 

With motorbike accidents it's difficult to prove who is at fault. Your word against theirs, so often claims are settled 50\50. I'm talking UK but the principle is the same here. Strange that the Op said he wasn't at fault but is paying up as if he is at fault. I'd go for 50\50 for bike damage. Insurance covers medical as mentioned numerous times

 

agreed, i'd certainly be digging my heels in if i wasn't at fault, why should i pay for someone else's mistake?

 

ok down the line some compromise may have to be made, this is thailand after all, but to accept fault as your starting position isn't a smart move.

[BestB]

4 hours ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

Hi everyone, have a bit of an update so thought I would post this here for anyone interested. Also for the police that may be reading ????

 

Returned to the police station today with a copy of the scooter rental CPTL insurance. The bare minimum.

 

I asked for a copy of the driver's licence of the boy that was driving the other scooter. The boy was unliscensed (and unhelmeted as was his brother). Police explained this was a separate matter and he would be fined for it.

 

Police had the bill to repair the Yamaha I hit. 11,000 baht.

 

They then said that although the medical bills of the unliscensed driver were covered, there may be an additional cost for medicine for the young boy riding on the scooter. Plus the money to be paid for the older unliscensed driver for missing work.

 

I agreed to pay to repair the bike in theory but signed nothing. I said that I would need to consult on the other matters.

 

I was then handed my passport.

 

A tourist police officer joined us and they took a formal statement of my version of the accident, something they had neglected to do on the occasion of the accident.

 

The translator from the tourist police did an admirable job translating my accounting I am sure ????

 

They produced my statement and asked me to sign it. I said, no problem, but I need to get this document translated by a third party first for my insurance company. Of course they would not let me take it to do so.

 

After ten mins of back and forth they let me leave with my passport, signing nothing with a promise to return on the 4th when they know the additional medical expenses.

 

I left the room.

 

My Korean wife returned to kowtow without me and ask if they would accept a payout to avoid all the hassle.

 

They replied with 42,000.

 

That's where we are now.

 

 

It appears you are happy to pay to put this matter to rest. On the 4th, tell them your final offer is 15000 baht and case closed, otherwise “see you in court”

 

i have a feeling they would accept it.

 

yes it’s common to ask want money for missing work, however at 300 baht per day most he would miss is 3-4 days. If legally employed, he also gets 30 paid sick days.

 

medicine to take home would not be more than few hundred baht.

 

15000 and full stop. As an ace up your sleeve , make your own estimate for your loss and present it to the other party, make sure it’s 100 times more than they asking . Include airfare , hotel, loss of income . They were unlicensed and caused an accident, so you will let court decide who is liable to pay what. I think it will settle at 15000 , maybe 1000-2000 more, at most . Also have cash with you , show them the money , either 15000 now or nothing until court decision 

[richard_smith237]

intheheartoftheheart (OP) can you tell us about the Accident?...  

 

Try and be as factual as possible...  it may actually help us understand why the Police think the accident is your fault. 

It 'could' be that the accident is your fault (I suspect unlikely though). 

 

So... What happened?

 

 

[RideJocky]

The OP has entered into a verbal agreement with the police and thinks it means nothing because he didn’t sign.

Why would anyone not guilty admit guilt to the police?

Oh what a wicked web we weave...


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[intheheartoftheheart]

@BestB, that sounds like a really good strategy.

[Jonmarleesco]

On 8/27/2019 at 11:02 PM, intheheartoftheheart said:

I offered 10k to the family today. They weren't happy with that number. I can try 20k as well

They wouldn't be happy with ANY figure you offered. But I wouldn't go above K15. If need be, tell them you'll help them by arranging for your Thai lawyer to talk to them. I'll guarantee that'll end their wrangling.

[DaRoadrunner]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I was then handed my passport.

You say your wife is Korean so have you any plans to return to Thailand? If you are never coming back to Thailand what's stopping you heading for the airport?

[scubascuba3]

You say your wife is Korean so have you any plans to return to Thailand? If you are never coming back to Thailand what's stopping you heading for the airport?

you've quoted the wrong person

[Vacuum]

15 hours ago, transam said:

No, but road tax and gov insurance have their own expiration dates. My ride insurance ends in June, road tax August. So I buy the insurance in June when it expires, they staple the bottom part of the insurance paper into the blue book to show it is insured when I tax it.

 I've changed the dates to expire on the same date on all my rides.

[transam]

1 hour ago, Vacuum said:

 I've changed the dates to expire on the same date on all my rides.

My point was regarding if you have the road tax you are not automatically Gov insured, just so readers understand...

[Vacuum]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

My point was regarding if you have the road tax you are not automatically Gov insured, just so readers understand...

Point taken.

[jvs]

11 hours ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

@BestB, that sounds like a really good strategy.

I told you to start limping a few pages ago,