Thailand's surging baht shatters expat dreams of easy retirement

[bowerboy]

On 10/5/2019 at 10:08 PM, Bugsy777 said:

 corruption in Australia now rivalling that of Asia....

 

You were doing well up to there and then that is where you completely lost me....

Edited October 6, 2019 by bowerboy
W

[bowerboy]

16 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Same here, I constantly take in data & adjust my plans, it's not like I'm obsessive, more I like to know what's going on in the world & (if it does) how it impacts me & my family.

  

I'm sure you have already, but if not recommend "Black Swan", not his (Nicholas Taleb's) best work (Fooled by Randomness is one of my favourite reads) but on the same page 

 

At the end of the day we can only plan for the worse & hope for the best ????

 

 

If you don't mind, can I ask when your planned retirement date is (FWIW Mine is Jan next year, 53 so still tempted to do 2 more years having been through a couple of "Black Swans")

 

Nice work.

 

May I ask how much in THB you plan to spend each month (including everything...so any annual payments would be shown as divided by 12 and then part of your total monthly costs).

 

FWIW I am way off retirement. I have 2 kids here in International school and full insurance for the family plus decent full life insurance for myself (death, critical, income protection and tpd) and monthly spending is 200k. And we do not have a flash car and our rent is actually really cheap.

 

Single and retired I think 100k would be the minimum (I would want to be traveling enough so as to never do a 90 day report).

[garyk]

It’s not the baht that ran me out of Thailand. 

[Scot123]

15 minutes ago, garyk said:

It’s not the baht that ran me out of Thailand. 

Same here. 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, bowerboy said:

 

Nice work.

 

May I ask how much in THB you plan to spend each month (including everything...so any annual payments would be shown as divided by 12 and then part of your total monthly costs).

 

FWIW I am way off retirement. I have 2 kids here in International school and full insurance for the family plus decent full life insurance for myself (death, critical, income protection and tpd) and monthly spending is 200k. And we do not have a flash car and our rent is actually really cheap.

 

Single and retired I think 100k would be the minimum (I would want to be traveling enough so as to never do a 90 day report).

My "Off the Cuff" number is 90,000 

    - 30,000 for house, bills, internet, mobile etc... 

    - 20,000 groceries

    - 30,000 "Entertainment"

    - 10,000 "Others" (Health Insurance, Visa expense etc...)

 

Which I think would be a very nice, workable budget for a single guy, obviously if you have wife & kids then things can skyrocket 

 

My actual budget is updated on a weekly basis and is currently... 

 

 

Edit to add: When it says 4, it's actually 52 (Weeks) / 12 (Months) so more like 4.334 which is why the numbers don't add up 

 

Edit2: I should explain the amortising of the Retirement Visa, i'm 76 months away from my pension(s) kicking in, until then I'm maintaining the 800K in the bank for Extensions, I've done the maths to remove it & there is virtually no difference so I just leave it there as is as I sometimes play with it being 1,000,000 for the 20 year PE Visa 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Zikomat]

Never ever in my life I had a single DREAM about retirement. I have dreamt about money, sexy girls, yachts, Ferrari and other things... Retirement was never a part of my dreams. What kind of person one should be to have those kind of dreams? Idiotic money driven western mentality.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Zikomat

[Zikomat]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

My "Off the Cuff" number is 90,000 

    - 30,000 for house, bills, internet, mobile etc... 

    - 20,000 groceries

    - 30,000 "Entertainment"

    - 10,000 "Others" (Health Insurance, Visa expense etc...)

 

Which I think would be a very nice, workable budget for a single guy, obviously if you have wife & kids then things can skyrocket 

 

My actual budget is updated on a weekly basis and is currently... 

 

 

Edit to add: When it says 4, it's actually 52 (Weeks) / 12 (Months) so more like 4.334 which is why the numbers don't add up 

 

Edit2: I should explain the amortising of the Retirement Visa, i'm 76 months away from my pension(s) kicking in, until then I'm maintaining the 800K in the bank for Extensions, I've done the maths to remove it & there is virtually no difference so I just leave it there as is as I sometimes play with it being 1,000,000 for the 20 year PE Visa 

30000 for an entertainment. One solid visit to WS a week. Twice a week to Soi 6. Even more to Beach road. Yes, quite realistic.

[bowerboy]

7 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

My "Off the Cuff" number is 90,000 

    - 30,000 for house, bills, internet, mobile etc... 

    - 20,000 groceries

    - 30,000 "Entertainment"

    - 10,000 "Others" (Health Insurance, Visa expense etc...)

 

Which I think would be a very nice, workable budget for a single guy, obviously if you have wife & kids then things can skyrocket 

 

My actual budget is updated on a weekly basis and is currently... 

 

 

Edit to add: When it says 4, it's actually 52 (Weeks) / 12 (Months) so more like 4.334 which is why the numbers don't add up 

 

Edit2: I should explain the amortising of the Retirement Visa, i'm 76 months away from my pension(s) kicking in, until then I'm maintaining the 800K in the bank for Extensions, I've done the maths to remove it & there is virtually no difference so I just leave it there as is as I sometimes play with it being 1,000,000 for the 20 year PE Visa 

 

Thanks! My spreadsheet format used to look pretty much the same as yours....but i changed it recently to be in a P&L format which I find easier to make adjustments to.

[bowerboy]

4 hours ago, Zikomat said:

Never ever in my life I had a single DREAM about retirement. I have dreamt about money, sexy girls, yachts, Ferrari and other things... Retirement was never a part of my dreams. What kind of person one should be to have those kind of dreams? Idiotic money driven western mentality.

 

So you are happy to work for the man forever?

 

Retirement simply means having enough money that you do not need to work again regardless of what age that happens at.

[moutamine]

On 10/4/2019 at 10:40 AM, owl sees all said:

Just have to go with the flow. Adapt and adjust.

 

Spend more time on TVForum and less on the bar stool.

Limit the pussy to just one (or two) different ones a week.

Embrace Thai food; and have more stews.

Home teach the children.

Frequent the clothes markets; shorts just 50 Baht.

Walk to the corner shop; leave the m/c at home.

Turn off the air-con; get a fan or two.

Stop feeding the soi dogs.

Cut your own hair.

Pull your own teeth.

Stay away from medical premises.

Embrace cold water showering.

Tell the wife or g/f only one new pair of shoes a month.

Limit the wife or g/f to one new handbag a month.

Tell the wife or g/f; 100 Baht lottery limit.

 

Big savings to be had for the thrifty.

 

 

A life like that, might as well shoot myself in the head right now... Should I start making my own utensil out of bamboo trees and hunt for food while am at it? 

[Almer]

Just cut back a little not much and it will compensate, it is the Thai economy will suffer, all the tourist with just a little less to spend adds up to a very large chunk indeed

[Almer]

1 hour ago, moutamine said:

A life like that, might as well shoot myself in the head right now... Should I start making my own utensil out of bamboo trees and hunt for food while am at it? 

Your comment about spend more time on TVF is not a good idea, after reading TVF i realise that i am a depressive disaster waiting to go gang, there is hardly any good vibes its all very negative and is contributing to peoples bad feelings

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, bowerboy said:

 

Thanks! My spreadsheet format used to look pretty much the same as yours....but i changed it recently to be in a P&L format which I find easier to make adjustments to.

Interesting, can you share what your format looks like (I spend hours on very boring conference calls so enjoy playing with my retirement spreadsheet(s) to pass the time).

 

[Angry Dragon]

On 10/4/2019 at 5:00 PM, FarangDoingHisThing69 said:

Looks like my advice to hold 1m Baht Incase the exchange rate goes zany was spot on. The Baht is not controlled by markets. Its determined by those inner circles. If 1 baht = .1$ then there will be lots of mega rich oligarchs in Thailand.
 

I'm intrigued!  Could you please elaborate?  Who is in the inner circles and what do they do to set the exchange rate?

[Mike Teavee]

51 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Interesting, can you share what your format looks like (I spend hours on very boring conference calls so enjoy playing with my retirement spreadsheet(s) to pass the time).

 

Sorry, was too late to edit my post... here's another view of my retirement budget (I did say that I sit on a lot of boring conference calls so "play" with these a lot :))

 

 

 

The 1st set of numbers are my monthly budget in Singapore except the Rent which is for my condo in Bangkok (I paid 12 months upfront for the rent for the Singapore condo to get a 10% discount).

 

The second set of numbers are my budget excluding any income coming from the UK which is why it's 126k not the 180k shown in my other budget)

 

The 3rd set of numbers is if I don't use some (GBP) assets I have in Singapore so is my minimum budget.

[You can probably guess that I'm loathed to spend any of my GBP at current rates]

 

The 21.05 is today's FX rate for SGD:THB (It's showing as 22.05 on XE so I simply subtract 1 THB, I can usually bank on getting no worse than current rate - 0.5) at the Money changers or Transferwise etc...)

 

 

 

Edit to add: Lol, It's just struck me that I plan to spend a lot more money on Entertainment (& a bit more on Groceries) in Thailand than I do in Singapore ???? 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Angry Dragon]

On 10/4/2019 at 5:48 PM, jlwilliamsjr18 said:

Let's talk about inflation. The baht could be 25 to the dollar again and if the prices were rolled back to then it's good. After all,  it's why most of us call this home. It's the inflation and upward prices that hurts everyone.

So you are hoping that the price of goods in Thailand will deflate to the levels seen 20 years ago?  You might want to consider more realistic wishful thinking.

[Angry Dragon]

14 hours ago, bowerboy said:

 

FWIW I am way off retirement. I have 2 kids here in International school and full insurance for the family plus decent full life insurance for myself (death, critical, income protection and tpd) and monthly spending is 200k. And we do not have a flash car and our rent is actually really cheap.

are you able to send your kids to a good international school?

[bowerboy]

17 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

are you able to send your kids to a good international school?

 

Good question....it’s not top level like Harrow or St Andrews but not a low level one either....more like a Bangkok Prep Level.

 

Having said that though we plan to move back to Oz before 2022.

[bowerboy]

Just now, bowerboy said:

 

Good question....it’s not top level like Harrow or St Andrews but not a low level one either....more like a Bangkok Prep Level.

 

Having said that though we plan to move back to Oz before 2022.

 

A bit over 60k per month for both kids (32 for one and 28 for the other or something along those lines as price is different with age).

[Angry Dragon]

1 hour ago, bowerboy said:

 

A bit over 60k per month for both kids (32 for one and 28 for the other or something along those lines as price is different with age).

thanks, I know it's off topic, but am just curious on schooling costs.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[moe666]

On 10/4/2019 at 10:01 AM, aqua4 said:

That is where it lost all credibility for me as well. I know of two who have left over the past 2 years as the cost of living has been increasing but the value you get from the increases is zero. Then there was also the new interpretations of the rules that made them think the party is clearly coming to an end.

 

Two who left over two years that is a flash flood

[ICELANDMAN]

5 hours ago, bowerboy said:

 

A bit over 60k per month for both kids (32 for one and 28 for the other or something along those lines as price is different with age).

It seems to me from your figures you're not with your family in Thailand because life is cheaper as many said.

Move back to Oz before 2022  you safe big money for sure

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

On 10/5/2019 at 8:13 AM, gk10002000 said:

The foreign earned income exclusion can be great.  As I retire soon, I won't be working in Thailand.  My income will be from my investment stocks and bonds and funds dividends and interest as well as my social security.  US Fed taxes will unfortunately still apply, as it would to most people's pensions as it is NOT earned income.  I am a Florida state resident so I don't pay state income taxes.  Florida is pretty cheap to live in many areas.  and the beach waters in general are clean to swim in all up and down the East Coast

Uhm Thailand is far cheaper than living in the U.S.  !! ???? 

[ukrules]

On 10/4/2019 at 10:11 AM, aqua4 said:

So if all of these are correct then why is immigration always so full?

Tourists doing extensions of their 30 day stays...

[Scot123]

Wow reading these recent posts I didn't realise I was so poor when I lived in Thailand as we only had a little over million Baht a year to live off as a family of 4 (2 young children at private schools), a new suv every 5 years, wife Big Bike, my Big Bike, Friday night out meal and entertainment, Sunday children out (again food and beer), week end holidays to Krabi several a year and one or two trips for my wife to Bkk see her friends and sister oh and shopping. For us 1 million baht was very comfortable we went out when we wanted.... 

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, Scot123 said:

Wow reading these recent posts I didn't realise I was so poor when I lived in Thailand as we only had a little over million Baht a year to live off as a family of 4 (2 young children at private schools), a new suv every 5 years, wife Big Bike, my Big Bike, Friday night out meal and entertainment, Sunday children out (again food and beer), week end holidays to Krabi several a year and one or two trips for my wife to Bkk see her friends and sister oh and shopping. For us 1 million baht was very comfortable we went out when we wanted.... 

When was that?

 

I probably spend about 4-5M/y, due to having western standards. In the west it would be about the same if you count taxes, maybe a little less (we own our house, which would be the case there too). But I wouldn't be living in the middle of a 3rd world country mentality. Of the two main reasons I moved to TH, weather is still good. The tax advantages have been nullified by kids getting older (international school is an absolute must now) and ever rising cost of living. As it is, I'm currently actively looking around for the next place, but so far it seems the entire world has gone to <deleted> in the last decade. No obvious choices left. And yes I'm 'retired', was before I hit 40.

[gk10002000]

4 hours ago, Robert Tyrrell said:

Uhm Thailand is far cheaper than living in the U.S.  !! ???? 

When one considers proper medical insurance and treatments, clean readily accessible beaches (Florida's East coast), proper infrastructure, one can live quite reasonably in the USA.  Thailand can be cheaper, but you get what you pay for.  It all depends on how one lives.  One poster here was claiming that he lived cheaper in Hawaii.  That one sounds like a stretch to me.

[bert bloggs]

Reading some of these posts about how much people spend here per year ,there are either a lot of very well off younger guys living here or a lot of bullsssst getting typed

we live in a lovely large house ,drive a car ,live well and put our son through an international school ,that finished years ago ,he now has a very good job, but we live on about 750000 baht a year at the very most . God knows how well they live on 2 million a year 

[Almer]

I cant be bothered costing things out, how much to spend on cheese etc, yes the rates are against us at the moment, many will remember 70 baht  to £1 Gbp, but be positive, send a big wedge back to the UK at 39baht and hey presto you hit the jackpot