Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[Pilotman]

All the debate in the world doesn't go anywhere to easing the feeling that medical insurance will become a requirement for the granting of an Extension, if not now, then in the future.  All the quoting of regulations and the Police Order in this post means nothing.  As we all know, some to their cost. the matter is in the hands of individual Immigration locations and even to individual IOs interpretation of what is required, or even of what they are prepared to do about it. The Immigration service overall is dysfunctional at best, vindictive in some isolated cases and makes the word 'inconsistancy', barely adequate to describe a chaotic situation, in a chaotic system.  Prepare for the worst and hope for the best is all any of us can do. 

[john thom]

Probably every IO will do their own thing, just like they always have. I really think they make up their own rules- sorry-

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Last point.. On the issue of how crazy it is to use extensions of permissions of stay and attempt to trace them back.. 

 

What about the person who obtains an OA visa.. Extends on a marriage class.. Stays on that for a few years.. And now goes in for a retirement extension ?? 

The point I am making is non imm extensions of a permission of stay were always independent of the visa that generated that permission of stay. This new implementation breaks that entire system of logic. 

Because of this break, I would assume it either 'should' never apply to extensions (of retirement, they all default to O rules) or always apply to retirement (they all default to OA rules). Its utterly ridiculous to impose a some do some dont basis when there can have been so many non OA extensions in between. 

Lastly, who wants an OA now ?? Everyone will skip that and go for the O every time. 

I agree with you

and to understand the ''mindset'' of the law it's important to understand what is the point

for the Thais authorities (Or at least the point they stated, true or not)

they have a problem with the bill unpaid in the hospitals

as the minister said, the ''risk group'' is the retirees over 50 years old 

(They do not state the risk group is the 50 yo retirees coming on an OA visa)

so it's make sense they try to ''cover'' with a health insurance all the 50 yo retirees group

they probably want to go step by step, they are well aware about the exodus could be result of

a mandatory health insurance for all

just thinking about it....i don't see how i can be more ''at risk'' with my initial OA visa at 55 yo, no smoker, no drinker and with no any medical problem, and with 800 000 in a thai bank vs a 75 yo smoker drinker with multiples medicals problems and 400 000 in the bank, but hey, he is married and have had a O visa, so what could be wrong to pay the hospital bill? And we are both on an 1 year extension of stay.

[BobBKK]

Isn't the title of this thread wrong?  Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance... (based on marriage ext)

fixed

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Outside Thailand of course. But can you explain why the item about OA (in the Page 8 chart) is under a headline saying EXTENSIONS? Is that a mistake? Are you sure it means nothing to be under a headline saying EXTENSIONS? Could it be it will apply to OA visas abroad, reentries while still valid at airports/borders, and also extensions with a base O-A? 

They amended the police orders 327/2557 and 138/2557 clause 2.22 for retirement rather than issue a new one to allow enforcement on entry to the country which is shown on page 11. 

This from page 11.

 

 

[lkv]

Ret ext no financials ~15 k

Ret ext no financials, no insurance ~xx k

 

To simplify things.

 

For more information, contact an agent near you.

[domdom]

Hello

 

One guy from Cha Am went to immigration today to extend his OA visa finishing on Nov 14th

They told him he needs a thai insurance to extend his visa, otherwise NO EXTENSION..

They gave a list of insurances which are allowed.. you can find it in this link

http://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

NO FOREIGN insurance allowed..

Have a nice day

[moogradod]

4 minutes ago, john thom said:

Probably every IO will do their own thing, just like they always have. I really think they make up their own rules- sorry-

Am I right then that there might be so drastic consequences for some at some offices compared to others that even moving to another province could be worth considering ?

 

It comes to mind that a short guide "What Immigration Offices across Thailand require" or "Guide to the Immigration Offices of Thailand" might be helpful.

[Exploring Thailand]

I was planning to apply for an O-A in London before the 31st.  The Thai Embassy in London is already listing insurance as requirement, so I wrote to them 7 days ago asking when the insurance requirement becomes effective. I've just received this reply.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

from 31 October hopefully 

Kind Regards,

Visa Officer

 

 

I hope s/he is right!

 

I'll soon know.

 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They amended the police orders 327/2557 and 138/2557 clause 2.22 for retirement rather than issue a new one to allow enforcement on entry to the country which is shown on page 11. 

This from page 11.

 

 

Getting a bit too in the weeds for me.

What is your current position on whether this will apply to EXTENSIONS on O-A based visas especially considering we now have reports from some offices that the insurance requirement indeed will be in effect for them after October 31?

[mariohh1]

Chiang mai Immigration informed my Visa Agent already that all extension from NON O A need a health insurance! so not only all new Applicants after 31.10.2019 all extensions from before too.

and here is a quote from their website: First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What is your current position on whether this will apply to EXTENSIONS on O-A based visas especially considering we now have reports from some offices that the insurance requirement indeed will be in effect for them after October 31?

It does not apply for extensions of a entry from any OA visa.. The date the it was issued means nothing.

As I have stated many times the rule is only for entry to the country with a OA visa issued after October 31st.

Any immigration office or officer saying otherwise is wrong or has been misinformed.

 

 

[domdom]

Hello

Anybody has a rough idea of the cost of those insurances ?? I pay an insurance in my home country and won t cancel it.. so I imagine I will have to go from here if this second insurance is expensive..

Another thing they don t point out is the fact that those insurances won t cover for a lot of preexisting pathologies.. so, what will they do against that as your major chances are to be in hospital for preexsiting pathologies.. for which the hospital won t get a cent from the insurance..

Have a nice evening..

[Mango Bob]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

It does not apply for extensions of a entry from any OA visa.. The date the it was issued means nothing.

As I have stated many times the rule is only for entry to the country with a OA visa issued after October 31st.

Any immigration office or officer saying otherwise is wrong or has been misinformed.

 

 

I just called 1178 and was told that it does apply to anyone who enter Thailand on a o/a visa.  I told them that it was 13 years ago.  She put me on hold and talked to her boss and returned and told me that it  applies to anyone who enter Thailand on an o/a visa.

[LivinLOS]

32 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They amended the police orders 327/2557 and 138/2557 clause 2.22 for retirement rather than issue a new one to allow enforcement on entry to the country which is shown on page 11. 

This from page 11.

 

 

Ohh dear.. that looks messy to say the least.. 

 

Officer discretion at reviewing english language technical documents.. 

Pot luck at best.. Lets hope that airport enforcement isnt a thing.. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

the thread quite wrongly stated CM was requiring this for extensions of stay of O visas. The video posted in the thread clearly shows IO stating O-A visa only.

The thread stated that 'some' agents are saying that retirement extension in general this will apply to.. I made it clear I didnt agree with that interpretation, but that was what some agents are saying. 

 

The proof posted was about O-A extensions, something multiple mods say will not be needed, yet many immigration sources saying the opposite. That is the news worthy item. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

the thread quite wrongly stated CM was requiring this for extensions of stay of O visas. The video posted in the thread clearly shows IO stating O-A visa only.

If you follow the series of quotes back to which you are replying (struggling with the multi quote linking sorry).. The initial enquiry was 
 

Quote

My friend  went to Yasothon Immigration yesterday for a extension of his OA visa which he got in UK he has been here on extensions of this OA visa for 12 years they gave him the extension this year but he was told when he next renews next year he MUST HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE so I think what is being stated a lot on here about not needing it is not true members should check with their local immigration and find out this is true.

He was then told to print and take the police order (some debate about if it would be accepted) and not be fobbed off.. 

 

That is the 'thread' 


 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Where have you seen a report on Prachinburi???

its in one of the threads / quotes / mess of info.. if I see it again I will highlight it. 

So far it was central helpline, prachinburi, jomtien, chiang mai, yasithorn, by my count.. 

[Jingthing]

It does not apply for extensions of a entry from any OA visa.. The date the it was issued means nothing.
As I have stated many times the rule is only for entry to the country with a OA visa issued after October 31st.
Any immigration office or officer saying otherwise is wrong or has been misinformed.
 
 

Well then good luck to any applicants encountering a "wrong" officer.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[digger70]

3 hours ago, alan grice said:

Or the Ferangs can’t understand the garbled reply.!. I still think Imo Forms were designed by the Village Idiot.Still the same format as 30 years ago.!.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

They still haven't cottoned on like  most countries use Computer data so one doesn't need a box full of paper to get something done at Immigration and also anywhere else for that matter. one can have an SSN number for everything so that one does't need a passport and 10 copies . Things could be so easy  but then .Why would they want to do somethings the Easy way when they can do it the Hard way for us Aliens. ????

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Officer discretion at reviewing english language technical documents.. 

It states they will check for remarks on or near the OA visa sticker for the first year of insurance.

I think the proof of insurance purchased from Thai insurer will be in Thai and they may even have a card to prove it.

 

[Martyp]

20 minutes ago, domdom said:

Hello

Anybody has a rough idea of the cost of those insurances ?? I pay an insurance in my home country and won t cancel it.. so I imagine I will have to go from here if this second insurance is expensive..

Another thing they don t point out is the fact that those insurances won t cover for a lot of preexisting pathologies.. so, what will they do against that as your major chances are to be in hospital for preexsiting pathologies.. for which the hospital won t get a cent from the insurance..

Have a nice evening..

The price of insurance is given by the companies on this website

 

http://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa?fbclid=IwAR15eLCO9B5jeRvbzdShpI8F_Hw7d0ZI36gB21SZLgchTOefQcUWwQp4guI

 

However, these are probably low quality overpriced policies because the insurance pool is people over 50 years of age.

 

I recommend contacting these companies and finding out what other policies they have that also meet the criteria. I have a Maxima Plus policy from Pacific Cross. This is much better value than the policies on the website.

[deej]

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

This is what people believed.. This doesnt seem to be what immigration believe in some places. Chiang Mai, Jomtien, Prachinburi, to name a few so far. 

All hot and gas 

May i ask for

 Immgr  Dept Police orders   to supoort  your  above  post or views

[rumak]

On 10/16/2019 at 3:38 PM, weegee said:

From what i understand...Insurance doesnt apply once you have been here, and then go for your extension.

Read what i put at the top again....I wrote it as soon as i walked in the door. That covers your question.

 

weegee.   go have a nice cold beer and forget about answering any more posts ( i stopped reading after page 2 ) .    You could post that the sun is definitely coming up tomorrow and still get ten pages of "yeah, well let's see".      You"re just gonna get stressed   ????

thanks for the input (from many of us).     just forget the rest 

[smedly]

7 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

There was a report about 10 days ago in which an official said that from the end of October the insurance requirement would apply to ALL multi O visas for those over 50. Of course, it might have been that the official was talking out of his a***. Happens often enough.
 

I'll be going to Savannakhet next month for my multi O based on marriage, and will seek info on here before I go as to whether anyone has been asked for insurance there or not. Of course, others may post on their experience anyway before I go there in the second half of the month.

it was a news item from reuters  and was obviously poorly written and inaccurate in substance and the terminology used and was lacking in detail and didn't line up with the official police order, a bit like people on here constantly incorrectly calling a 12 month extension of stay "a retirement visa" 

[Martyp]

Face it. This conversation has reached stasis. The only way forward is to wait to see what happens after Oct 31st and report back IO office by IO office.

[digger70]

2 hours ago, weegee said:

Exactly....and thanks. The Immigration Depts are all falling into Sync at last....I believe everything I was told yesterday by Immigration was correct. They were so helpful and friendly about the great list of questions i had with me...I came away Happy.

Now next thing on the list is ,If,If they decide in the future that every extension  of stay would need an insurance .Then it would be nice if the Thai Government could come up with an insurance for us old Codgers that Can't get an decent insurance for a decent premium  or no insurance at al instead that one wouldn't have to pay the Rip Off premiums that the insurance companies want.  Medical costs are cheaper than western Medical costs But one has to pay more for insurance then in ones home country. That's why the insurance companies should be Regulated by the Government. 

[Jingthing]

All hot and gas 
May i ask for
 Immgr  Dept Police orders   to supoort  your  above  post or views

What are talking about? He's taking about announced enforcement policies at some offices. Not police orders. Sure you can try to protest an enforcement decision that you think conflicts with the official orders but there is no assurance of success doing that. That is why going forward we're going to have to hear lots of first hand reports from many offices to get a real feel for how this change is actually being enforced at the various offices.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[LivinLOS]

8 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Now next thing on the list is ,If,If they decide in the future that every extension  of stay would need an insurance .Then it would be nice if the Thai Government could come up with an insurance for us old Codgers that Can't get an decent insurance for a decent premium  or no insurance at al instead that one wouldn't have to pay the Rip Off premiums that the insurance companies want.  Medical costs are cheaper than western Medical costs But one has to pay more for insurance then in ones home country. That's why the insurance companies should be Regulated by the Government. 

The problem is, as stated by those same insurers, is that they are tasked with designing a policy exclusively for retirees.. When the available pool of customers are all 'old codgers' then theres little room to spread the risk, and the policy will appear poor value. 

 

 

[luckyluke]

9 minutes ago, Martyp said:

... and report back IO office by IO office.

If lucky. 

 

It can be different from officer to officer in the same office. 

 

Or even same officer, same office, depending the mood of the officer.