15 dead, 5 injured in Yala shootout

[Bangkok Barry]

9 hours ago, Moonlover said:

It does make me wonder. With manpower in the order 357,000 plus a slightly larger number of reservists, (2015 figures) why is that 'village volunteers' are manning vulnerable check points instead of professional soldiers?

 

Yes. I've long wondered what soldiers do all day. They don't even seem to do any community work, or anything at all. Does anyone have any family members serving who could enlighten us? Or perhaps it might be too embarrassing a question to ask them.

[Dingo1170]

R.I.P to those that lost their lives, tragic. Send the incompetent army in to sort it out, call it training whatever, but do something.

[Fred white]

13 minutes ago, Dingo1170 said:

R.I.P to those that lost their lives, tragic. Send the incompetent army in to sort it out, call it training whatever, but do something.

Let general payut and watch boy lead the way ????

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, TKDfella said:

My condolences to the families of those killed.

Any event involving insurgency is saddening and on this scale even more so. It isn't any good to discuss the why's on such a hotly debated modern issue but, like many other martial art instructors, I've come into contact with those who anticipate physical contact with insurgents. Indeed, have had contact with army personnel training Thai soldiers in anti terrorism techniques. Soldiers are of a mindset that in the event of war or similar circumstances, that they could die at any point. Police don't have that training because upholding the law implies a lesser contact with dangerous individuals and they usually a special division/branch that deals with expected violence. This then questions the use of volunteers in any circumstance where there is a persistent threat of being wounded let alone death. I am not suggesting that volunteers may lack training (though I don't know if that applies here) but to put them in a 'front line' position (a check point) is surely unwise to say the least.

 

I think these are Village Defence Volunteers who are basically ordinary villagers that volunteer for sort of auxiliary police type work that the police are unable or unwilling to do.  I have seen them in Isaan where they set up checkpoints near the entrance to their village at night.  I am not sure what they are looking for as they normally just sit around in a group and I have never seen them stopping cars.  In Isaan there are no firearms visible but may be some truncheons.  Those in Isaan are not supplied with weapons by the government, as far I know, but would qualify to buy guns at a discount under the Interior Ministry's welfare scheme, if the village headman is prepared to vouch for them.  In the Deep South there are somewhat more militarised and can be supplied with shotguns by the government and the most basic of firearms training by the military.  Some may be provided with handguns but I think they have to buy them for themselves.  They are outgunned by the insurgents who have have assault rifles, mainly stolen from Thai military and police, but because the insurgents also want shotguns and handguns they are targets for them.  

 

From what I recall the Tak Bai massacre originated from an issue to do weapons stolen from Village Defence Volunteers.  Some Muslim volunteers had been issued with pump action shotguns which went missing and the headman reported that they had been stolen, presumed by insurgents.  The Buddhist police didn't believe their story and arrested the headman and several of the other volunteers on suspicion of having either sold the shotguns or looked the other way while the insurgents stole them.  A crowd gathered outside the Tak Bai police station demaning their release and the rest is sad history.  It has not been reported whether the victims in this attack were Muslims or Buddhists but I think that most of the armed volunteers are Buddhists. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Dogmatix

[Elkski]

15 people standing guard.. So they must have had fear from something like this.   It would be hard to stay alert for weeks and months and years and in some good defensible position against a planned assault.  Like shooting fish in a barrel.

What a sad time for that area.  RIP 

[MarcelV]

4 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

We see this behavior from Muslims the world over.  Unfortunate situation.  Need armed soldiers at all checkpoints in areas of known unrest.

It is not a primarily muslim cause here, but firstly an ethno-nationalist one.

On your second point: I live in the area, namely Narathiwat, and see a variety of checkpoints. Some very professional with arch-shaped gates, watch towers, speed bumps en heavily armed and masked soldiers, others no more than some red-and-white fences that you can easily wave your car through, with no personnel at all present. It will take many, many more soldiers to man every single checkpoint sufficiently. Not gonna happen.

[fasteddie]

10 hours ago, hansnl said:

I think you know the reason very well.

You can see this in many other places and countries in the world

On another note, the authorities might check what Iranian "tourists" do in Thailand and why somany zeem Ti travel Ti the South.....

Yeah cos those Shiite Iranians are likely to be helping those Sunni separatists, good lord man get some education.

[fasteddie]

5 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Are you trying to justify the brutal killing of 15 village volunteers? 

 

These people with a so called 'cause' who go about taking the lives of innocent people are sub-human in my opinion. Like in the UK, the Manchester Arena bombing, or the London Bridge attack. If someone thinks it's ok to kill a random person in the name of their cause, they are beyond evil. No matter what the cause is. 

 

 

'' If someone thinks it's ok to kill a random person in the name of their cause, they are beyond evil. No matter what the cause is.''....so I take it you include America and it's allies in that statement given they kill many more than ''terrorists'' do. Incidentally, these people are separatists, their country was annexed by a foreign power and they want it back.

[AGLV0121]

12 hours ago, Enoon said:

As did Britain in Ireland, the Netherlands in their "East-Indies" and France in "Indo-China" and Algeria

 

Right but admit these colonial powers were remote, here they are neighbors. Changes the narrative. After all many ethnies have been integrated "by" neighboring countries without violence. Here, they have gripes because they feel they are treated as second class citizen.

[ta158]

According to updated news from thai news, the volunteers did shoot back and they injured the attackers unclear on proximitly how many attackers injured.

 

m79 grenade launcher was used to attack the base too. 

[bristolgeoff]

it is still going on in the sth.it will never stop i imagine

[beautifulthailand99]

There is a lot nonsense and conjecture on this thread but I have some personal experience. My wife is from Yala and I visit it regularly. We fly to Hat Yai and go by car in daylight to the family house. She lost a friend when a store was bombed a few years back and my brother-in-law has a barber's shop in the same street. The road is flanked by concrete blast pillars that don't look like they would be any use against fireworks and cars have to park in the center of the roads not by the pavement. Monks go on their alms round in a unmarked trucks with two plainclothes soldiers every morning and some temples are surrounded by barbed wire and have ab army outpost attached. 

 

The roads from HY to Yala has quite a few roadblock chicanes - mostly made out of used tyres and sand bags and are nearly all seemingly manned by Isaan conscripts. They either wave you through in the day unless they have reason to stop you and at night you must wind down your window show id have it photoed and they look in the car. A few soldiers and armoured cars go around Yala but not much. 

 

My take is that religion aside the movement is largely Muslim gangsters who control all the dodgy businesses that are in the border area such as drugs, prostitution , bars and smuggling. They are rarely bombed or hassled which if the insurgents were ISIS minded would have long since gone. Their attacks often are to ward off the Thai Army who has no stomach for a fight and sends the least corrupt ones down there (if there are any)  or a a punishment. They have their own irons in the fire elsewhere. And that's the reason the militants don't  let off big bombs in Phuket or the like as they know if the hurt Thailand too much they would come down on them like a ton of bricks. Occasionally they do a bomb outside the South such as in Hua Hin as a reminder to the Thai Army - it's their area , their criminal enterprises and as a get off my patch warning. One set of godfathers against another set. 

 

Oh and Thaksin with the Tak Bai massacre inflamed the problem no end - radicalising hundreds of families to support the young terrorist men. In Yala which is 70% Muslim and 30% Thai I have encountered nothing but friendly smiles from stallholders and the like. I'm sure the vast majority of ordinary Muslims there would like and end to this as well. To put all this in context the roads are far more dangerous on a daily basis everywhere in Thailand than this 'insurgency'. Who knows why they killed the villagers - probably they refused to kowtow to the gangsters maybe and were taught a terrible and deadly lesson. RIP to all those poor souls. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tak_Bai_incident

 

 

 

[gk10002000]

So assuming the muslim residents have some legitimate claim to and want to form a separate state,  does that justify indiscriminate bombings and killings of other residents in the area?  What kind of state would they want?  Sharia law?  Islam was never native to that area, but was only transplanted a long time later by traders or conquerors in some cases, and after it was created in the Middle Easts

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed.  

 

[MobileContent]

15 hours ago, worgeordie said:

This is what happens when the  separatist insurgents have better

weapons,than the village defence volunteers ,and where was the 

real army.

regards worgeordie

Soldiers are most of the time going back to the barracks at night and the village volunteers are at night on their own. 

[MobileContent]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

So assuming the muslim residents have some legitimate claim to and want to form a separate state,  does that justify indiscriminate bombings and killings of other residents in the area?  What kind of state would they want?  Sharia law?  Islam was never native to that area, but was only transplanted a long time later by traders or conquerors in some cases, and after it was created in the Middle Easts

The large majority of Muslims in the South don't want a separate state but they want basic autonomy.

[MobileContent]

9 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Yes. I've long wondered what soldiers do all day. They don't even seem to do any community work, or anything at all. Does anyone have any family members serving who could enlighten us? Or perhaps it might be too embarrassing a question to ask them.

I have two family members in the South. One is a soldier and one is a police men. The cop just returned to Isaan. The soldier is only patrolling day time and returns to the barracks when the sun goes down, otherwise their would be massive casualties on the Thai army. 

 

The local Buddhist and Muslim population are afraid at night and the defense volunteers are on their own until the next morning. 

[Youlike]

14 hours ago, zyphodb said:

Can you imagine the loss of face were they to let it become independent or part of Malaysia, assuming they wanted it?

I can but now he also looses face since his wife is from Yala.....and both work/live in the USA so what about if they tell their freinds there where she's from?

[Youlike]

11 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

We see this behavior from Muslims the world over.  Unfortunate situation.  Need armed soldiers at all checkpoints in areas of known unrest.

Because of them there are armed soldiers all over Europe! Even at very cheap shops and supermarkets.

[MobileContent]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

There is a lot nonsense and conjecture on this thread but I have some personal experience. My wife is from Yala and I visit it regularly. We fly to Hat Yai and go by car in daylight to the family house. She lost a friend when a store was bombed a few years back and my brother-in-law has a barber's shop in the same street. The road is flanked by concrete blast pillars that don't look like they would be any use against fireworks and cars have to park in the center of the roads not by the pavement. Monks go on their alms round in a unmarked trucks with two plainclothes soldiers every morning and some temples are surrounded by barbed wire and have ab army outpost attached. 

 

The roads from HY to Yala has quite a few roadblock chicanes - mostly made out of used tyres and sand bags and are nearly all seemingly manned by Isaan conscripts. They either wave you through in the day unless they have reason to stop you and at night you must wind down your window show id have it photoed and they look in the car. A few soldiers and armoured cars go around Yala but not much. 

 

My take is that religion aside the movement is largely Muslim gangsters who control all the dodgy businesses that are in the border area such as drugs, prostitution , bars and smuggling. They are rarely bombed or hassled which if the insurgents were ISIS minded would have long since gone. Their attacks often are to ward off the Thai Army who has no stomach for a fight and sends the least corrupt ones down there (if there are any)  or a a punishment. They have their own irons in the fire elsewhere. And that's the reason the militants don't  let off big bombs in Phuket or the like as they know if the hurt Thailand too much they would come down on them like a ton of bricks. Occasionally they do a bomb outside the South such as in Hua Hin as a reminder to the Thai Army - it's their area , their criminal enterprises and as a get off my patch warning. One set of godfathers against another set. 

 

Oh and Thaksin with the Tak Bai massacre inflamed the problem no end - radicalising hundreds of families to support the young terrorist men. In Yala which is 70% Muslim and 30% Thai I have encountered nothing but friendly smiles from stallholders and the like. I'm sure the vast majority of ordinary Muslims there would like and end to this as well. To put all this in context the roads are far more dangerous on a daily basis everywhere in Thailand than this 'insurgency'. Who knows why they killed the villagers - probably they refused to kowtow to the gangsters maybe and were taught a terrible and deadly lesson. RIP to all those poor souls. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tak_Bai_incident

 

 

 

Very well explained.  

[tandor]

19 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

 

Man these guys are good... 

..i can sleep better in my bed knowing this.

[cyril sneer]

muslims doing what they do best

[Tayaout]

3 hours ago, Youlike said:

Because of them there are armed soldiers all over Europe! Even at very cheap shops and supermarkets.

From their point of view they were invaded first by Western military and still are to this day. I guess it's a continuation of the crusade and will probably never end. 

[Pancho]

Bummer. Possibly we will see more of this, and an increasing need to initiate marshal action ( civilian and others) in order to “ protect “ citizenry, and ( above all) commerce. Hope not. Not good. Takes the burning spotlight off the elephant in the room, proper democracy. Have a nice day ????

[Mark mark]

On 11/6/2019 at 11:04 AM, Xaos said:

Damn. Why they can't get along? Do they fight for independence? Its not like they were oppressed right? 

They are just Mafia Unfortunately I think ? ...Just doing what mafia Do ... Stealing Weapons to sell them on. ? ... There probably should have been a LOT LESS weapons in there ! ... They should have been some where More secure ..and yes, .... the Post maned by Regular Amy Volunteers, not Villagers. ... It is all very sad ! 15 Good Men Dead !!! ... Yes, God Dam Them. ...

[Langkawee]

On 11/6/2019 at 12:16 PM, hansnl said:

I think you know the reason very well.

You can see this in many other places and countries in the world

On another note, the authorities might check what Iranian "tourists" do in Thailand and why somany zeem Ti travel Ti the South.....

Iranians are Shia. Thai Muslims are Sunni. Sunni like killing Shia. Therefore Iranians are not going South. You listen to Trump too much 555. Iranians are the most peaceful despite their warring rhetoric. 

[Mark mark]

I traveled with a Muslim taxi driver over in Krabi once, and he put it this way .... If a Muslim and a Thai man, who are friends, are walking down the street, and they are both Drunk, ... and the cops stop them .... they will let the Thai guy go, ...  but arrest the Muslim ! and put him in a cell ! ... Then the Muslim Mans family all get out, and come around and Protest in front of the Police station !!! .... ... Hence you basically go from, 2 Drunken men walking down the road ! .... To 27 Angry Muslim men and woman, protesting out side the Police station !!!

 

.... Any way a huge proportion of Thailand's Oil and Gas are off these southern Provinces ! ... So do you think that they ever will get Autonomy ! ? ... and control of the Oil and gas ??? (And the Money it would bring in !!!) ... I do not think so ... Like ... NEVER. Regardless of now many people die. ... Liek they have the black Poisson !!! ... Most poor countries that have Oil, ending up in a LOT worse position that they started off in !!! ....

 

Yes I do believe that they were Sultanates and Muslim, up until the King Number 5 took them over and also Ethnically cleansed them a lot also ... like we have a Lot of the People from down there, Living, Happily, along the West side of the river, south of Ayuttahya now ... Like the King Number 5 was not stupid, ... He gave them land ! and they still have it ! hence they are all pretty happy up here now. (And a lot safer also) ...

Edited November 7, 2019 by Mark mark
Left a word out

[johnarth]

On 11/6/2019 at 1:26 PM, Postmaster said:

Moonlover has it in One !    Where were the professional soldiers ?

staying out of the line of fire, they are staying out of the way because the government are doing their best to blame outsiders but like I said years ago if let go these attacks are going to get bigger and bigger

[digger70]

22 hours ago, Fred white said:

Army and govt same same ????

Not on paper,,,   ????

[metisdead]

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