Getting rid of Non O-A (specific case)

[hugocnx]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't think insurance is required for for extensions of stay. But there some immigration offices that are saying it rs required. 

We are still waiting for there to be a official clarification from the immigration bureau.

It has been clarified it is only required when entering the country with OA visa issued after on or after October 361st. 

 

Thank you. Feels a bit better. No posters either who had experiences lately. Seems at Aetna OPD cost me an extra >30K baht per year. Rediculous for 40K coverage, even being 71.

[saengd]

I've held an O-A extension based on retirement for many years but I am also married to a Thai. My local immigration has agreed to convert my O-A to an O based on marriage without having to leave the country, using an agent to do this it will cost about THB 15,000 (not the 9,000 I mentioned some time ago). For me that's worthwhile because it saves travel out of Thailand, hotels etc and any associated hassles, all I have to do is give all the paperwork to the agent and then sit back and wait. Perhaps younger guys can manage the cheaper route and do it all themselves, me, I'm happy with this outcome.

[MeePeeMai]

9 minutes ago, saengd said:

My local immigration has agreed to convert my O-A to an O based on marriage without having to leave the country

Please clarify, your local Immigration Office has agreed to convert your Non O-A (on which you currently have an extension based on retirement) to a NON O based on marriage?  If they have agreed to do this for you then why are you going to use an agent?  ...or did your local office recommend an agent to you to be able accomplish this? 

 

I am just curious because I am in the same boat (O-A) and plan on moving to an O based on marriage also.  My local office said that I MUST leave the country and then start the O based on marriage process.

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, saengd said:

I've held an O-A extension based on retirement for many years but I am also married to a Thai. My local immigration has agreed to convert my O-A to an O based on marriage without having to leave the country, using an agent to do this it will cost about THB 15,000 (not the 9,000 I mentioned some time ago).

You will only be changing the reason for your extension. You will still have the original OA visa entry that you have been extending based upon retirement.

[saengd]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You will only be changing the reason for your extension. You will still have the original OA visa entry that you have been extending based upon retirement.

No, I am actually getting a 30 day non-O without leaving Thailand, this will then be extended for one year based on marriage. 

 

To answer the earlier poster: I have no contacts at Immi. but the agent does, they took my passport to their contact who I presume looked at it and made a decision to allow the change, the total cost is broadly split between the agent and Immi..

[MeePeeMai]

1 minute ago, saengd said:

To answer the earlier poster: I have no contacts at Immi. but the agent does, they took my passport to their contact who I presume looked at it and made a decision to allow the change, the total cost is broadly split between the agent and Immi..

I see, thank you for replying!

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, saengd said:

No, I am actually getting a 30 day non-O without leaving Thailand, this will then be extended for one year based on marriage.

I would be interested in seeing that 30 day non-o visa entry stamp. Non immigrant visas allow a 90 entry.

There is no procedure for doing it at immigration that I am aware of.

[Deerculler]

Are you wanting to change to marriage ext. before your O-A ext. is due?

[saengd]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I would be interested in seeing that 30 day non-o visa entry stamp. Non immigrant visas allow a 90 entry.

There is no procedure for doing it at immigration that I am aware of.

I'm sorry I was wrong, what I'm told is that I will get "a one month stamp for investigation, followed by an eleven months". Assuming everything goes smoothly I should have this by next week and I will happily either post or PM you with a copy of what I get. 

[saengd]

5 minutes ago, Deerculler said:

Are you wanting to change to marriage ext. before your O-A ext. is due?

Yes, but preferably without leaving Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, saengd said:

I'm sorry I was wrong, what I'm told is that I will get "a one month stamp for investigation, followed by an eleven months". Assuming everything goes smoothly I should have this by next week and I will happily either post or PM you with a copy of what I get. 

That will be the standard 30 day under consideration stamp that is done for extension based upon marriage. Then at end of the 30 days you will get the one year extension stamp.

[saengd]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

That will be the standard 30 day under consideration stamp that is done for extension based upon marriage. Then at end of the 30 days you will get the one year extension stamp.

Yes, but the point is it's being done in country and without first having to leave to cancel the existing O-A extension.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, saengd said:

I've held an O-A extension based on retirement for many years but I am also married to a Thai. My local immigration has agreed to convert my O-A to an O based on marriage without having to leave the country, using an agent to do this it will cost about THB 15,000 (not the 9,000 I mentioned some time ago). For me that's worthwhile because it saves travel out of Thailand, hotels etc and any associated hassles, all I have to do is give all the paperwork to the agent and then sit back and wait. Perhaps younger guys can manage the cheaper route and do it all themselves, me, I'm happy with this outcome.

I doubt he is converting an O-A to an O without leaving the country. More likely, simply changing to a marriage Extension, which does not require insurance.

If what you say is true, I worry your passport is traveling without you!

Edited December 5, 2019 by jacko45k

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, saengd said:

Yes, but the point is it's being done in country and without first having to leave to cancel the existing O-A extension.

Actually the point, as I see it, is more like your local immigration office is happy for you to switch from retirement to marriage as your reason for future extensions of stay based on your original OA visa without the need for TGIA-approved longstay health insurance cover.

 

Which office are we talking about here, please?

[saengd]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I doubt he is converting an O-A to an O without leaving the country. More likely, simply changing to a marriage Extension, which does not require insurance.

I can only say this so many times....from the agent:

 

"immigration officer have answered positively to your request to switch your current visa to a non O Marriage one".

[saengd]

4 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Actually the point, as I see it, is more like your local immigration office is happy for you to switch from retirement to marriage as your reason for future extensions of stay based on your original OA visa without the need for TGIA-approved longstay health insurance cover.

 

Which office are we talking about here, please?

I'm not sure if I should be disclosing this so I've PM'd you.

 

Hmmm, looks like I can't! WTH Chiang Mai.

Edited December 5, 2019 by saengd

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, saengd said:

I can only say this so many times....from the agent:

 

"immigration officer have answered positively to your request to switch your current visa to a non O Marriage one".

You don't have a current Visa, but a current extension. I added another comment above. I believe anything can happen here.... 

[saengd]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

You don't have a current Visa, but a current extension. I added another comment above. I believe anything can happen here.... 

I do wish we would stop this silliness. I don't know why it is that long term expats need to keep raising this pedantic point, visa and extension of visa are terms that are used interchangably amongst people who understand these things and have been here for some time, with newbies, no, long timers yes and visa agents.

[jacko45k]

Just now, saengd said:

I do wish we would stop this silliness. I don't know why it is that long term expats need to keep raising this pedantic point, visa and extension of visa are terms that are used interchangably amongst people who understand these things and have been here for some time, with newbies, no, long timers yes and visa agents.

Whatever....  you still can't extend a visa, and I expect that is where you are being unclear. 

Anyhow, good luck.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, saengd said:

visa and extension of visa are terms that are used interchangably amongst people who understand these things and have been here for some time

Actually, it's 'visa and extension of stay' that are erroneously interchanged. On the MFA website, they tell you if you want a Non Imm O-A "long stay" visa issued in Thailand, you just have to go to Immigration to have it issued. This, we know, it not possible -- just another case of Non Imm O-A visa being confused with an extension of stay based on retirement. Even embassies sometimes get mixed up and use the term visa for an extension of stay. Not very helpful, especially if the Thais are writing laws based on confusion with terminology.

 

Anyway your "...to switch your current visa to a non O Marriage one" makes sense when you replace "visa" with "extension of stay." By the way, there is no such thing as a 'marriage visa.' But, you knew that, right?

Edited December 5, 2019 by JimGant

[saengd]

18 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Actually, it's 'visa and extension of stay' that are erroneously interchanged. On the MFA website, they tell you if you want a Non Imm O-A "long stay" visa issued in Thailand, you just have to go to Immigration to have it issued. This, we know, it not possible -- just another case of Non Imm O-A visa being confused with an extension of stay based on retirement. Even embassies sometimes get mixed up and use the term visa for an extension of stay. Not very helpful, especially if the Thais are writing laws based on confusion with terminology.

 

Anyway your "...to switch your current visa to a non O Marriage one" makes sense when you replace "visa" with "extension of stay." By the way, there is no such thing as a 'marriage visa.' But, you knew that, right?

I wasn't aware I used the term, "marriage visa", but yes, I do know that no such thing exists.

 

Taking a step back for a moment: I posted that I had asked an agent if I could switch from an O-A based on retirement to an O based on marriage, they wrote back and told me Immigration said I could do those things hence I am going to do those things.

 

But when I report those things here, for the benefit of others, three people tell me I'm either confused, have misunderstood, am really doing something completely different or it can't be done, this despite sending details from the emails that were sent and received on the subject. I wonder what that's all about, do people only want to read stories that match their understanding of what is true and possible and everything else must be nonsense? Yet those same people are keen to point out the minutiae of correct terminology relating to the subject, hmm!

 

I fear this site has become unusable if we're now to this stage of things, there's no incentive for anyone to report their experiences because the associated challenges make it so laborious, it's just not worth the effort.

[JimGant]

Chill out, saengd. Normally your posts are well thought out and intelligent -- I particularly have enjoyed those related to the financial situation in Thailand.

 

But you're getting hung up on terminology -- and as I said above, when they say "non O marriage visa" they really mean "extension of stay based on marriage." I guess they actually could do, as they do with conversions, give you a Non Imm O visa stamp, immediately stamp it "used," then give you the 90 day permission of stay that always follows such a Non Imm O process. But that would be nonsensical, since your long-dead Non Imm O-A visa, upon which you've hung your retirement extensions on, is still available to hang a marriage extension on.

 

We frequently see folks changing their extensions from married to retirement -- often at the urging of Immigration. But this doesn't involve, nor require a shiny new Non Imm visa -- the long dead Non Imm visa, of whatever flavor (O, B, O-A) still suffices. Now, in your situation, the reverse is happening. Nothing, really, amazing about that....

 

Anyway, I'm really interested in your process, as I'm in the same boat -- and also in Chiang Mai. My retirement extension, based on a defunct O-A, doesn't expire until Sept 2020, so I'm going to hang on a little longer to see if wiser heads prevail within the Thai bureaucracy. But please keep us advised with your results. Oh, how far out from your current retirement extension expiration are you doing this? And, if a large gap, why not wait until 45 days before expiration?

 

Hey, if they stamp a shiny new Non Imm O in your passport prior to this new marriage extension, I owe you a beer (or two)....

[oslooskar]

On 12/4/2019 at 12:57 AM, Peter Denis said:

The diplomatic behind-the-scenes going-ons of embassies that see their older retiree-nationals above 75 years of age not being able to meet the health-insurance requirement for the OA dedicated Visa category;

Somehow, I just can’t see the U.S. embassy getting overly concerned about the well-being of the ageing American expatriate community here in Thailand.

[saengd]

42 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Chill out, saengd. Normally your posts are well thought out and intelligent -- I particularly have enjoyed those related to the financial situation in Thailand.

 

But you're getting hung up on terminology -- and as I said above, when they say "non O marriage visa" they really mean "extension of stay based on marriage." I guess they actually could do, as they do with conversions, give you a Non Imm O visa stamp, immediately stamp it "used," then give you the 90 day permission of stay that always follows such a Non Imm O process. But that would be nonsensical, since your long-dead Non Imm O-A visa, upon which you've hung your retirement extensions on, is still available to hang a marriage extension on.

 

We frequently see folks changing their extensions from married to retirement -- often at the urging of Immigration. But this doesn't involve, nor require a shiny new Non Imm visa -- the long dead Non Imm visa, of whatever flavor (O, B, O-A) still suffices. Now, in your situation, the reverse is happening. Nothing, really, amazing about that....

 

Anyway, I'm really interested in your process, as I'm in the same boat -- and also in Chiang Mai. My retirement extension, based on a defunct O-A, doesn't expire until Sept 2020, so I'm going to hang on a little longer to see if wiser heads prevail within the Thai bureaucracy. But please keep us advised with your results. Oh, how far out from your current retirement extension expiration are you doing this? And, if a large gap, why not wait until 45 days before expiration?

 

Hey, if they stamp a shiny new Non Imm O in your passport prior to this new marriage extension, I owe you a beer (or two)....

My O-A extension expires end May next year, I've held the same thing for sixteen years or more. I want to complete the change over as soon as possible just to get it out of the way and reduce the risk the gov. may at some point prevent people from using this escape route, I'm not sure they actually would but..TIT.

 

As far as what I asked for and what I've been told I will get...I've posted the specific form of words used, neither the question nor the reply from Immi. are ambiguous.

 

I will post a copy of what I get, when I get it.

[Deerculler]

saengd,

I understand where you are coming with some of the remarks that are made.

I like to think that we are here to help and support each other.

 

I am following your posts as like you and others I am in the same situation.

Stay with it.

Good luck.

 

[Sheryl]

On 12/5/2019 at 12:14 PM, hugocnx said:

Thank you. Feels a bit better. No posters either who had experiences lately. Seems at Aetna OPD cost me an extra >30K baht per year. Rediculous for 40K coverage, even being 71.

 

It is, but a second "throw-away" policy just to meet Imm requirement will cost even more and be of no use whereas you can get at least some use out of ATENA OPD cover.

 

Which AETNA plan is this? If Platinum there is no maximum per visit which greatly increases the likelihood if actually using much of it.

[Sheryl]

23 hours ago, saengd said:

I wasn't aware I used the term, "marriage visa", but yes, I do know that no such thing exists.

 

Taking a step back for a moment: I posted that I had asked an agent if I could switch from an O-A based on retirement to an O based on marriage, they wrote back and told me Immigration said I could do those things hence I am going to do those things.

 

But when I report those things here, for the benefit of others, three people tell me I'm either confused, have misunderstood, am really doing something completely different or it can't be done, this despite sending details from the emails that were sent and received on the subject. I wonder what that's all about, do people only want to read stories that match their understanding of what is true and possible and everything else must be nonsense? Yet those same people are keen to point out the minutiae of correct terminology relating to the subject, hmm!

 

I fear this site has become unusable if we're now to this stage of things, there's no incentive for anyone to report their experiences because the associated challenges make it so laborious, it's just not worth the effort.

 

saengd

 

I think people are just trying to help as there is room for misunderstanding of what they told you that could cause you some real problems.

 

Immigration cannot change an OA to an O visa. They can convert a tourist visa to an O or issue an O to someone already in country on  a visa exempt entry.

 

So one way or the other you are going to have to leave the country and re-enter. Whether you do so my returning to your home country and getting an O there, or by getting an O in the region, or by making a border hop and returning visa exempt etc etc all up to you.

 

I think people were just concerned that you'd not plan for leaving the country and expect your OA to be changed to an O in-country . Can't be done.

 

While I have never used an agent (and hope not to ever have to, but who knows) I have discussed visa matters with several since this insurance ^&% started and I find their language to often be imprecise and English comprehension also not the best. And the person who talks to you may not be the person who actually handles things.  On more than one occasion an agent has told me something could be done that after I rephrased the question several times it emerged could not be done, or could only be done under certain substantial conditions, like leaving the country first and re-entering. So just beware.  When you actually hand them your passport they may give a different answer than you got so far e.g. "Oh but you have top leave the country first and re-enter visa exempt". or "keep your passport with you, be at the van by 6 AM tomorrow and we'll take your passport when you get back the next day". Etc.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Immigration cannot change an OA to an O visa. They can convert a tourist visa to an O or issue an O to someone already in country on  a visa exempt entry.

Right. But are you saying you cannot change your one year extension of stay based on retirement to a one year extension of stay based on marriage -- both of which emanate from the same original Non Imm O-A visa? Why would that be, since you certainly could have elected to go the marriage extension route initially off of that O-A visa. Is changing extension options somehow not allowed off of the same expired O-A visa?

 

Anyway, to me, that seems to be what saengd's agent is promising......

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Right. But are you saying you cannot change your one year extension of stay based on retirement to a one year extension of stay based on marriage -- both of which emanate from the same original Non Imm O-A visa? Why would that be, since you certainly could have elected to go the marriage extension route initially off of that O-A visa. Is changing extension options somehow not allowed off of the same expired O-A visa?

 

Anyway, to me, that seems to be what saengd's agent is promising......

If that is all then of course can, and indeed  do not need an agent to do that. Not at all complicated.

 

But that does not remove the OA which I thought was his intention.

 

There have been reports of some IOs (more than 1 province) saying the insurance requirement still applies even if reason for extension is marriage since you are still extending your stay under on OA visa.

 

Anyone planning to do this had best check with IO first. And/or extend early with a plan B.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

There have been reports of some IOs (more than 1 province) saying the insurance requirement still applies even if reason for extension is marriage since you are still extending your stay under on OA visa.

Hi Sheryl,

I did not see such reports (maybe I missed them), but imo such an interpretation by an IO could - and should - be easily challenged as the PoliceOrder addressing the health-insurance requirement, clearly refers to the clauses addressing RETIREMENT.

Obviously IOs are not keen on doing extensions based on OA Visa for marriage, because of the extensive paperwork.  But bending the rules to avoid this, is not acceptable.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Peter Denis