Can we really go cashless in Thailand?

[orientalist]

I've always preferred cashless. Before meeting the gf a few years ago I used my credit cards for almost everything except BTS and food courts, so I could see my expenses on a couple of monthly statements.

 

But after we hooked up and later began looking after a granddaughter there were a lot more cash expenses and in addition I needed some accounting of my payments FOR her and other expenses WITH her. That prompted me to investigate electronic wallets. The gf and her family seem to live out of 7-11s and since we currently live apart there are a lot of BTS expenses. So that meant looking into True Wallet for 7-11 and Rabbit Line Pay. To me it ain't "cashless" if I have to faff around loading the wallet with actual cash at a kiosk somewhere (although the bankless Thai masses will find this an advantage), so I was happy to see that both wallets allow linking to credit and debit cards.

 

A word about security: In 35 years I've only had two problems with card fraud and both were obviously a vendor skimming my credit card details. I now scratch off the CVV and also don't use debit cards in shops. Online I use Paypal when I can and only one CC.

 

Both of the above wallets are way easier to use if your phone has a fingerprint sensor.

 

True Wallet: Pretty easy to set up. You send a photo of your ID and a selfie holding it to get verified. I received an approval SMS a day later. I can link my credit cards to it and swap between them. I do this to separate my expenses from the gf's. You can also load it with cash by bank transfer. The big advantage of True is it can be used at 7-11, so no more 50 satang and 25 satang coins in your pocket. The disadvantage is that for bill payment, as opposed to shop purchases, it will only take money from your preloaded funds and not a linked card. As a test I purchased something cheap on Thai Lazada with True Wallet but it insisted on taking wallet funds. Also you cannot import a QR code photo, you have to scan.

 

Rabbit Line Pay: This one also allows linking of cards as well as preloaded funds. The obvious advantage is payment on the BTS. With the Line Pay card (registration requires a copy of ID and photo - which they take). If you have the Line Pay card you can pay for monthly passes via credit card but not for BTS card top-ups. With just your phone, you can buy skytrain tickets at the many QR-ready ticket machines with the cost taken from a credit card (the price is still 1 baht higher than using a refillable card). As with True Wallet, you can't pay utility bills via credit card and can't import QR codes. Line seems to have a better penetration of stores than True - including food courts at Big C and Tops - but often you must use your card rather than scanning with phone, and smaller shops like Lawson often tell me their machine is broken.

 

Banking apps:

I like the K-bank mobile app for some things but I don't like the idea that the "wallet" is my entire bank account. I use it for the various utility bills. You can import a photo of a QR code that someone sends you. You can also get money from some ATMs with just your phone. I use this app to do occasional top-ups of my wallets.

 

All in all, I am mostly cashless now and can monitor my expenses, but that's around Bangkok. I'm not sure about upcountry. Security-wise, mobile apps seem more secure than Windows-based online banking. A mobile wallet seems more secure than using a card in shops and using your phone at ATMs is safer than using a card.

 

Anyone have any good experiences of going cashless in Thailand - or bad ones - to share?

[bwpage3]

Impossible to do in places like rural Isaan where all of the local transactions are in cash.

[sanmyintmaung]

I was able to make true money wallet charge my linked credit instead of using preloaded balance for my true bill payment.

I need to select the circled radio button. It actually said credit/debit card in Thai.

 

I was able to use True Money Wallet at many 7-11 in rural locations.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by sanmyintmaung

[Matzzon]

Of course it´s possible.

[orientalist]

11 minutes ago, sanmyintmaung said:

I was able to use True Money Wallet at many 7-11 in rural locations.

 

Apparently, 7-11's system runs on the True infrastructure, so True should work anywhere 7-11's own wallet can.

[spiekerjozef]

Nope

[ratcatcher]

35 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Impossible to do in places like rural Isaan where all of the local transactions are in cash.

Impossible to do in places like rural Thailand  Isaan where all of the local transactions are in cash.

Most of Thailand is rural and cash is "king".

Edited January 28, 2020 by ratcatcher

[ratcatcher]

There have been odd occasions when I have gone cashless, then I have to phone and ask my wife to kindly bring my wallet to the store.

[mstevens]

Thailand has a sizeable underground economy in which some very powerful and influential people are heavily involved. I really don't think they the idea of going cashless and hence everything being traceable will go down well with them!

 

Cashless will probably come at some point in places with very low corruption like the countries of Scandinavia, New Zealand etc but Asia becoming cashless? Perhaps another generation, say 20+ years until that happens, I reckon - and even then I would not be so sure.

[Tounge Thaied]

I like the idea of no middle man. I see going cashless as just another way for the Banksters to take a cut of every transaction I make. Imagine, soon when I want to give you 100 baht, I will have to make a transaction from my phone to your phone for a fee. And... I like having the option of being anonymous when I want to. 

[digbeth]

everybody from motorcycle taxi to hairdressers and even market stalls seems to accept the QR code/Prompt Pay phone no/ID no transfer.... but that remains to be seen when the tax man start going after these mom and pop shops that don't do accounting or previously was under the radar of the tax man, but now that banks has threshold of number of transfer in per year/amount for reporting. 

 

If you're afraid to pay out of your bank account directly, just open a separate account that you use to transfer out of and only transfer in what you plan to use like a wallet.

[recom273]

Yes, everywhere I go now, places have a prompt pay QR code. I hope the trend continues. 
 

Am I correct in saying, we can’t get a prompt pay QR code? I don’t know why we would, maybe my missus wants to pay me some money back or whatever.

[samsensam]

 

i live in a rural area back home and there's no way people would go cashless there. London maybe.

 

a friend was here recently and went round looking at hostels with her, non accepted card payment, all wanted cash. so, out of interest, i started looking at restaurants and found the vast majority dont accept card payment either - and this is in a tourist area of bangkok where there is customer demand to make cash payments. i mentioned this to my thai friends who were not surprised as many businesses want to avoid tax, therefore it's cash all the way. listen to the government and BOT all you like but look at what's happening on the ground; actions speak louder than words.

[CharlieH]

Try using any (most?)Post offices for sending a parcel or letter without cash !

 

Always wondered how much of the huge cash taken every day by these offices actually gets to where it needs to go ????

[CGW]

19 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Yes, everywhere I go now, places have a prompt pay QR code. I hope the trend continues

Sure the taxman will agree with you 

Personally I find it quite easy to go get enough cash to last a month or so, when its finished, I repeat said action, its not difficult ???? 

[sucit]

12 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

I like the idea of no middle man. I see going cashless as just another way for the Banksters to take a cut of every transaction I make. Imagine, soon when I want to give you 100 baht, I will have to make a transaction from my phone to your phone for a fee. And... I like having the option of being anonymous when I want to. 

Thank you! Yep, you are just perpetuating the giant banking thieves the less cash you use. 

[ThaiBunny]

I've tried to be cashless as far as possible from time to time in central Bangkok. Every place I've tried accepts my Krungsri chip-and-pin debit card. However I always subsequently check online that they only put one transaction through, as they usually wander off with the card, come back with the paper slip, and never ask me to enter my PIN at the usual machine - that they use and I don't. I have tried it (successfully) at Villa supermarket

 

I've also got it linked to my True Wallet on my phone, but basically that's only useful (for me anyway) at a 7-11 or a True coffee shop

 

The real problem is the lack of the Thais adopting common digital wallets like Google Pay or Apple Pay, and therefore encouraging a fragmented, proprietary digital wallet universe, as the OP outlined

 

Sadly the boys (and girls I assume) still prefer cash, although I suppose I could ask my regulars if they'd prefer a bank transfer

[recom273]

23 minutes ago, CGW said:

Personally I find it quite easy to go get enough cash to last a month or so, when its finished, I repeat said action, its not difficult ???? 

I guess this is the smug standard answer you would expect from TV.

 

What works for one, doesn’t always work for another. I work from home.

 

I transfer money to the wife for shopping at the market, I make sure we only need to go to Big C every 2-3 months, all my monthly bills are paid online - Then there’s food and goods bought online, services and leisure that can paid by promptpay or bank transfer. 
 

I go to the bank once a month and draw 1000B, yet every time I’m at home and the waterman need 24B the wife has snatched all my change. 
 

She’s got her own healthy business, it’s not like I’m tight or poor - it’s just hard to keep money. 
 

First world problems ..

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, recom273 said:

yet every time I’m at home and the waterman need 24B the wife has snatched all my change.

I've yet to find a Thai family member who gives me any change from the 50 baht note I hand over for the 8 baht bottle of soda water I've asked them to buy me from 7-11

[Antonymous]

I tend to use a credit card for most purchases over 1,000 baht, where accepted, and cash for all other purchases. I use direct debit from my bank accounts for regular bill payments. In Thailand cash is king and I find it so easy and convenient to pay in cash. I can’t understand why the OP (or anyone) is so afraid of cash.

 

I keep detailed accounts. In the past five years my expenditure has been 56% in cash, 35% credit card and the rest by bank transfer. I have never had the slightest problem obtaining, carrying or spending cash.

 

Cash also has the great advantage of being ‘anonymous’ in that nobody but you and the receiver or purchaser knows what you purchased (or sold) and that, IMHO is gold!

 

If you go cashless that’ll mean that all of your money and all of your sales and purchases will be under the eye of Big Brother. Do you have no regard for your privacy at all?

 

And do you trust BB (that includes banks, government departments, law enforcement and all third parties that will be given access) with the minute details of your whole financial life?

[natway09]

Big Brother would love everyone to be cashless so they know to the last satang how much you are spending.....The tax man loves it,,,Christmas all year

Cashless,,, your mad>>>>>>>

[sucit]

1 hour ago, recom273 said:

I guess this is the smug standard answer you would expect from TV.

 

What works for one, doesn’t always work for another. I work from home.

 

I transfer money to the wife for shopping at the market, I make sure we only need to go to Big C every 2-3 months, all my monthly bills are paid online - Then there’s food and goods bought online, services and leisure that can paid by promptpay or bank transfer. 
 

I go to the bank once a month and draw 1000B, yet every time I’m at home and the waterman need 24B the wife has snatched all my change. 
 

She’s got her own healthy business, it’s not like I’m tight or poor - it’s just hard to keep money. 
 

First world problems ..

These are not first world problems. It is a real first world issue. 

 

You know who wants cashless societies? Governments. It is a powerful governmental tool, akin to things like drug laws. You are giving the government more power over you. Not to mention big business lobes it as well, they get a piece of the pie for every single transaction in a cashless society. 

 

The more people who voluntarily go cashless, the easier it is for them to implement these policies, the richer the banks get, the more leverage govt gets, and the less liberties individuals have.  

 

I understand people just want to go cashless because they feel it is more convenient for them. I just feel like a thread like this sorta proves the opposite. It is difficult to go cashless (in many instances), so why go out of your way to attain a system that will garner more power for governments? 

Edited January 29, 2020 by sucit

[sucit]

1 hour ago, Antonymous said:

I tend to use a credit card for most purchases over 1,000 baht, where accepted, and cash for all other purchases. I use direct debit from my bank accounts for regular bill payments. In Thailand cash is king and I find it so easy and convenient to pay in cash. I can’t understand why the OP (or anyone) is so afraid of cash.

 

I keep detailed accounts. In the past five years my expenditure has been 56% in cash, 35% credit card and the rest by bank transfer. I have never had the slightest problem obtaining, carrying or spending cash.

 

Cash also has the great advantage of being ‘anonymous’ in that nobody but you and the receiver or purchaser knows what you purchased (or sold) and that, IMHO is gold!

 

If you go cashless that’ll mean that all of your money and all of your sales and purchases will be under the eye of Big Brother. Do you have no regard for your privacy at all?

 

And do you trust BB (that includes banks, government departments, law enforcement and all third parties that will be given access) with the minute details of your whole financial life?

It is not a matter of if you trust them. They will 100% for sure use the information in some way. Let's get real, this information on purchase patterns is worth billions. Of course they are going to sell it to people, they already are. 

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by sucit

[gamesgplayemail]

I will never go cashless.

 

So funny that people accept the BS that big brother decides for you.

 

Nobody knows what i buy and when i buy it, and it will never change.

 

You guys are such followers, you should live in China if you enjoy being tracked whatever you do !

 

 

[henry15]

If you have an Thai bank account no problem.. You can use prompt pay or en Bank app like Kplus from. Kasikorn.

[rwill]

Going cashless means paying fees for every transaction you make. 

[Salerno]

6 minutes ago, rwill said:

Going cashless means paying fees for every transaction you make. 

Strange, virtually never use cash in Australia and don't see any fees 

[sucit]

12 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Strange, virtually never use cash in Australia and don't see any fees 

You are right, but the person you bought from will get a fee. Huge fees too, which costs even small businesses thousands a year, and you do end up paying for in the end, let's be clear about that. It is just another one of their operating costs. 

 

People think "this is great, I get free miles when I use my card". Nothing is free. You end up paying for those miles in the end by way of higher overhead fees for vendors. 

 

Any form of e payment or credit card, the only real winners are the banks and the governments. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by sucit

[spidermike007]

The government would love for you to go cashless. That way they can monitor your every move. It is their wet dream. 

 

Sometimes, when I am in the US especially, I get behind 5 people in line at a coffee shop, and every single person pays for a $4 cup of coffee with a card. I consider that to be the height of emasculation. Sorry guys. But real men carry cash. Remember Jackie Gleason? He never left home with less than $2000 in his pocket. And you could not only buy meals for everyone with that back then, you could buy the restaurant.

 

Cash is liberating. Cash is king, and I hope cashless never arrives!

[Curt1591]

22 hours ago, orientalist said:

 ... so I could see my expenses on a couple of monthly statements.

 

For me, not having a bank record of all my transactions is a small price to pay for the bank, or anyone else not having the same record. No one needs to know what I buy, when I buy, or where I buy.