Herd Immunity vs Lockdown

[Throatwobbler]

3 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Italy 17000+

 

 

And that is with the restrictions in place. Try and think how many deaths there would be if there were no restrictions in place. How many people are prepared to let die just so you can keep your “freedoms”. Honestly I have never seen such vile behaviour. Also from reading All your posts on this it is clear that you have no comprehension how serious this is. I am sure to prove me right you will now post figures about the flu again.

[frantick]

10 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

And that is with the restrictions in place. Try and think how many deaths there would be if there were no restrictions in place. How many people are prepared to let die just so you can keep your “freedoms”. Honestly I have never seen such vile behaviour. Also from reading All your posts on this it is clear that you have no comprehension how serious this is. I am sure to prove me right you will now post figures about the flu again.

Defining freedom as a vile behavior. You've been brainwashed already comrade.

[Monomial]

Gee. The only group that wants to keep this lockdown going are the retirees who are getting all the benefits of the lockdown and bearing almost none of the burden.

 

<sarcasm>You could knock me over with a feather. Never would have predicted that.</sarcasm>

 

It looks like the virus has a huge percentage of asymptomatic infections anyway, meaning this lockdown is doing basically nothing. Like placing a skinny pole in the middle of fast moving river, concentrating on a tiny eddy current around it and saying "look at all that water it's stopping."

 

Let's stop spending billions and billions of dollars on a useless stick.

 

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Monomial said:

Gee. The only group that wants to keep this lockdown going are the retirees who are getting all the benefits of the lockdown and bearing almost none of the burden.

 

<sarcasm>You could knock me over with a feather. Never would have predicted that.</sarcasm>

 

It looks like the virus has a huge percentage of asymptomatic infections anyway, meaning this lockdown is doing basically nothing. Like placing a skinny pole in the middle of fast moving river, concentrating on a tiny eddy current around it and saying "look at all that water it's stopping."

 

Let's stop spending billions and billions of dollars on a useless stick.

 

 

I'm amazed that you fail to understand that distancing is effective for people with or without symptoms. Wow. Please think about that a little bit and get back to us.

[Monomial]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm amazed that you fail to understand that distancing is effective for people with or without symptoms. Wow. Please think about that a little bit and get back to us.

Who said anything about social distancing?  I said lockdown and business closures.

 

Social distance all you want. Wear a mask. I personally carrry alcohol and spray everything I touch several times.

 

But get those borders open, get those planes back in the air, and open up all those closed businesses that have been immorally closed for negligible benefit.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Monomial

[UbonThani]

13 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

And that is with the restrictions in place. Try and think how many deaths there would be if there were no restrictions in place. How many people are prepared to let die just so you can keep your “freedoms”. Honestly I have never seen such vile behaviour. Also from reading All your posts on this it is clear that you have no comprehension how serious this is. I am sure to prove me right you will now post figures about the flu again.

no difference

[UbonThani]

Just now, UbonThani said:

Also from reading All your posts on this it is clear that you have no comprehension how serious

Clear nonsense. 97% had underlying conditions, others fat.

 

The science says it kills the sick. Flus kill 500k.

[UbonThani]

48 minutes ago, Monomial said:

Gee. The only group that wants to keep this lockdown going are the retirees who are getting all the benefits of the lockdown and bearing almost none of the burden.

Yep. All the lefties on welfare.

[UbonThani]

2 hours ago, frantick said:

Defining freedom as a vile behavior. You've been brainwashed already comrade.

Vile = killing millions of businesses. Scare mongering socialists. They hate freedom. True vile.

[UbonThani]

49 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm amazed that you fail to understand that distancing is effective for people with or without symptoms. Wow. Please think about that a little bit and get back to us.

Im amazed you dont understand common sense. Standing 2m away can be done easily with things open.

[Sharp]

13 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

And that is with the restrictions in place. Try and think how many deaths there would be if there were no restrictions in place. How many people are prepared to let die just so you can keep your “freedoms”. Honestly I have never seen such vile behaviour. Also from reading All your posts on this it is clear that you have no comprehension how serious this is. I am sure to prove me right you will now post figures about the flu again.

You think lockdown is helping with scenes like this

 

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1251096391838916608?s=20

[RotBenz8888]

47 minutes ago, Sharp said:

You think lockdown is helping with scenes like this

 

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1251096391838916608?s=20

Well who would have thought...No work, no money, no food, and they're supposed to isolate themselves while getting increasingly desperate? This lockdown will be like pouring gasoline on the fire.

[ukrules]

On 4/4/2020 at 1:38 PM, Guderian said:

The world has a lot of experience at developing vaccines, including against coronaviruses (think of the annual flu cocktail).

Influenza isn't a coronavirus, it's something else.

 

Some of the common colds are caused by a coronavirus, there's no vaccine for them.

 

[gamb00ler]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

return to work for all

If this goes on much longer ( in NZ as I'm not in other countries so can't speak for them ) there won't be many jobs left to go back to. There will be no work for ALL.

This won't be at all like the Great Depression.  That was started by a huge stock market bubble.  The world economy pre-COVID was in pretty good shape.

 

This temporary shutdown is a huge blow, but the economy should steadily recover at a good pace.  GDP for 2021 in developed countries will probably exceed 2019.  Lesser developed countries will not do nearly as well.

 

From History.com: "

The stock market, centered at the New York Stock Exchange on Wall Street in New York City, was the scene of reckless speculation, where everyone from millionaire tycoons to cooks and janitors poured their savings into stocks. As a result, the stock market underwent rapid expansion, reaching its peak in August 1929.

By then, production had already declined and unemployment had risen, leaving stock prices much higher than their actual value. Additionally, wages at that time were low, consumer debt was proliferating, the agricultural sector of the economy was struggling due to drought and falling food prices and banks had an excess of large loans that could not be liquidated."

 

You alarm is no different than the lockdown Nazi's ... just misplaced.

[UbonThani]

5 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Well who would have thought...No work, no money, no food, and they're supposed to isolate themselves while getting increasingly desperate? This lockdown will be like pouring gasoline on the fire.

Yet Thailand under 50 deaths. No country under 500 deaths needs strict rules

[torturedsole]

2 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

Yet Thailand under 50 deaths. No country under 500 deaths needs strict rules

I wouldn't be surprised if the Thai government are massaging the figures.  Much like the Chinese.  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/17/2020 at 11:32 AM, UbonThani said:

Doctors on radio - people dying from other things due to fear of going to hospital.

People may be dying from non Corona related things because the hospitals are not taking routine cases in case a big Corona surge happens. So far hardly anyone in hospital in NZ and part time staff being told there is no work for them. Only 5 deaths so far.

[UbonThani]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

People may be dying from non Corona related things because the hospitals are not taking routine cases in case a big Corona surge happens. So far hardly anyone in hospital in NZ and part time staff being told there is no work for them. Only 5 deaths so far.

It's become a bigger issue than Corona in NZ and Aus.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Monomial said:

Gee. The only group that wants to keep this lockdown going are the retirees who are getting all the benefits of the lockdown and bearing almost none of the burden.

 

<sarcasm>You could knock me over with a feather. Never would have predicted that.</sarcasm>

 

It looks like the virus has a huge percentage of asymptomatic infections anyway, meaning this lockdown is doing basically nothing. Like placing a skinny pole in the middle of fast moving river, concentrating on a tiny eddy current around it and saying "look at all that water it's stopping."

 

Let's stop spending billions and billions of dollars on a useless stick.

 

 

I'm a retiree and I disagree with lockdown. Isolate those at risk and let society survive. The way it's going there won't be much society left to carry on with.

 

The grandchildren of those calling for lockdown will probably still be paying for the money borrowed to subsidise those that can't work now, and that's assuming no new virus appears, which is not unlikely.

[UbonThani]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm a retiree and I disagree with lockdown. Isolate those at risk and let society survive. The way it's going there won't be much society left to carry on with.

 

The grandchildren of those calling for lockdown will probably still be paying for the money borrowed to subsidise those that can't work now, and that's assuming no new virus appears, which is not unlikely.

Correct

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm amazed that you fail to understand that distancing is effective for people with or without symptoms. Wow. Please think about that a little bit and get back to us.

He said nothing about not having distancing.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Monomial said:

Who said anything about social distancing?  I said lockdown and business closures.

 

Social distance all you want. Wear a mask. I personally carrry alcohol and spray everything I touch several times.

 

But get those borders open, get those planes back in the air, and open up all those closed businesses that have been immorally closed for negligible benefit.

 

 

I don't want to see planes in the air at all, except essential travel. Build decent hi speed rail systems instead of polluting aircraft.

People can holiday at home- mass overseas tourism ruins environments ( Thailand is a prime example of ruined environments in search of baht from overseas tourists ).

Cancel immigration- locals need all the work available.

Start making stuff again- no more cheap junk that breaks too quickly from China.

Edited April 18, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[Roy Baht]

Enough of the "herd immunity" talk. COVID-19 is not just a "bad flu"--at least not in the United States

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

Enough of the "herd immunity" talk. COVID-19 is not just a "bad flu"--at least not in the United States

 

 

Your graph is apparently showing that most that die have heart disease and cancer.

So, how many die that don't have underlying medical conditions that would kill them anyway, like heart disease and cancer?

[rabas]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Your graph is apparently showing that most that die have heart disease and cancer.

So, how many die that don't have underlying medical conditions that would kill them anyway, like heart disease and cancer?

Cancer and heart disease has not dropped because of covid-19.

 

Edit: Your point is not invalid, just that covid-19 does not have the ability to select and infect just those that would die of other disease.

Edited April 18, 2020 by rabas

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, rabas said:

Cancer and heart disease has not dropped because of covid-19.

That wasn't my point. If someone dies with Corona that has heart disease or cancer, which actually killed them? I'm pretty sure they'll be put in the Corona killed them basket regardless.

[RJRS1301]

40 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

It's become a bigger issue than Corona in NZ and Aus.

Pure speculation with no evidence to support that proposition.

 

Anecdotally some seniors are refusing in home domestic assistance, but according to service providers these are very few.  

Australia also has telehealth to allow seniors to have a consultation without attending a GP surgery, prescriptions sent to pharmacy and delivered in many instances 

Edited April 18, 2020 by RJRS1301

[RJRS1301]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Your graph is apparently showing that most that die have heart disease and cancer.

So, how many die that don't have underlying medical conditions that would kill them anyway, like heart disease and cancer?

That is not what the graph shows at all, heart disease and cancer remain unchanged, while covid19 unrelated to heart and cancer has spiked exponentially. 

Many of the deaths are older people with commodities, CoPD, diabetes etc, Covid19 often causes a cytokine storm which can have disastrous consequences 

Edited April 18, 2020 by RJRS1301

[Sharp]

Theres Doctors and reports coming out on the internet more and more stating they are being told to chalk up deaths of X,Y,Z to coronavirus even if its only suspected due to similar symptoms. 

 

Ill try to find the links as soon as i have had my coffee.

[sandyf]

45 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Your graph is apparently showing that most that die have heart disease and cancer.

So, how many die that don't have underlying medical conditions that would kill them anyway, like heart disease and cancer?

At the end of the day, death is death, and purely statistical what caused it. Any increase from the norm should be of some concern and particularly if it is in the order of 60%.

It should be noted that of the 6000 additional deaths in Week 14 only about 3500 were recorded as covid-19.

 

The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 3 April 2020 (Week 14) was 16,387; this represents an increase of 5,246 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 13) and 6,082 more than the five-year average.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending3april2020