Permanent residence: Thailand welcomes foreign investors and people with families

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, Yadon Toploy said:

That's as clear as mud with some bad English.

 

I'm still none the wiser.

Ok I'll try to translate. When you join the elite program, you'll get a PE (Privileged Entry) visa, which gives a you one year permission to stay stamp when you enter Thailand. You can't work while on that permission to stay, but must instead go get the usual non-imm B visa and re-enter to be able to get a work permit.

 

It's a poor substitute for investment category PR.

Edited April 20, 2020 by DrTuner

[DepDavid]

Called 1178 to ask about work permit. Was told it is not required in my case, over 50 married to Thai. However calling to the office that handles PR to confirm I get no answer for several days now. 

[DepDavid]

On 4/16/2020 at 1:22 PM, smutcakes said:

Yes, there is no set time, i believe that's the average it takes.

The document collection, notification, certification in home countries, translations is also mighty painful to go through.

Despite the nerves the interview was probably the easiest part.

Now just have to forget about it until further notice.

If you can’t read Thai and the test is written in Thai, I understand the proctors can read the questions to you, but do they translate to English or only THAI?

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, DepDavid said:

If you can’t read Thai and the test is written in Thai, I understand the proctors can read the questions to you, but do they translate to English or only THAI?

Its a verbal (filmed) interview, not written. They ask you questions in Thai and you answer in Thai. No reading involved.

[Dogmatix]

10 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Ok I'll try to translate. When you join the elite program, you'll get a PE (Privileged Entry) visa, which gives a you one year permission to stay stamp when you enter Thailand. You can't work while on that permission to stay, but must instead go get the usual non-imm B visa and re-enter to be able to get a work permit.

 

It's a poor substitute for investment category PR.

You must be right.  I think one guy I know bought the Elite card while working and still gets NON-B visas.  He likes the limos and stuff and expects to retire soon and use the PE visa. 

 

Investment category PR is actually not different from the normal working category PR.  You still need a work permit and salary tax receipts.  So you need to be working either in your investee company or somewhere else but get harassed for extra couple of kilos of docs relating to your investment. The same applies to the humanitarian category for supporting or being supported by Thai family (LOL to that one).  You need to be working. Someone got his lawyer to force Immigration to take his application in the humanitarian category, although not working in Thailand, because the regulations make is sound like working is not necessary.  Immigration took it with ill grace and probably dumped it in the trash but the lawyer did well out of it.

[DepDavid]

I’m looking for help regarding what to expect for the written test and interview.  Most of the information online is several years old. If there is a forum with current information or someone who has tested and interviewed recently has time to chat that would be great. 

[Dogmatix]

21 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Its a verbal (filmed) interview, not written. They ask you questions in Thai and you answer in Thai. No reading involved.

 

I did PR before they introduced the wrinkle requiring knowledge of the Thai language under Thaksin. We were allowed to bring translators to the two interviews which were just with one Immigration officer.  At first the test was just a simple multiple choice that no one could fail.  Now it is a panel interview that requires an intermediate knowledge of Thai. One friend was asked if he had any close Thai friends.  He said yes and was asked to give their names and surnames, which he was able to do.  Another was asked what he felt was his contribution to Thai society.  He understood the question but was unable to answer it in Thai and broke down into English.  He withdrew his application before he got the results and moved back to the US. Another friend couldn't understand any of the questions at all and they give up on him and went on the next guy. He was rejected for some other reason and bought the Elite card instead. 

 

The language test for citizenship is much easier, if you apply through a Thai wife, because, unlike PR, there is no requirement to have a knowledge of Thai and you can get your wife to translate for you. Anyone who is qualified for PR and has a Thai wife is also qualified for citizenship which is much easier and cheaper.  The written test that they can read out the questions for you is in fact the Knowledge of Thailand Test for citizenship, not PR. The policewoman who read it out for me winked when she read each correct multiple choice answer but I got a couple wrong because I thought she just had a tnervous tick. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Dogmatix

[DrTuner]

14 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

Investment category PR is actually not different from the normal working category PR.  You still need a work permit and salary tax receipts.  So you need to be working either in your investee company or somewhere else but get harassed for extra couple of kilos of docs relating to your investment. The same applies to the humanitarian category for supporting or being supported by Thai family (LOL to that one).  You need to be working. Someone got his lawyer to force Immigration to take his application in the humanitarian category, although not working in Thailand, because the regulations make is sound like working is not necessary.  Immigration took it with ill grace and probably dumped it in the trash but the lawyer did well out of it.

Yeah, I looked into investment and family PR routes before. No go because of the working requirement. I would probably be a poster boy for what the OP is about, but don't have any need for work. Did that part already.

[DepDavid]

20 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Its a verbal (filmed) interview, not written. They ask you questions in Thai and you answer in Thai. No reading involved.

See. Info I have is very old apparently. Is there any study material available anywhere?  I asked because the process for my wife to get citizenship in USA was far easier than me getting PR here. Study material as well as other assistance was easily obtained. Sure she studied hard and did well, I would like to be able to do the same. 

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, Dogmatix said:

 

I did PR before they introduced the wrinkle requiring knowledge of the Thai language under Thaksin. We were allowed to bring translators to the two interviews which were just with one Immigration officer.  At first the test was just a simple multiple choice that no one could fail.  Now it is a panel interview that requires an intermediate knowledge of Thai. One friend was asked if he had any close Thai friends.  He said yes and was asked to give their names and surnames, which he was able to do.  Another was asked what he felt was his contribution to Thai society.  He understood the question but was unable to answer it in Thai and broke down into English.  He withdrew his application before he got the results and moved back to the US. Another friend couldn't understand any of the questions at all and they give up on him and went on the next guy. He was rejected for some other reason and bought the Elite card instead. 

 

The language test for citizenship is much easier, if you apply through a Thai wife, because, unlike PR, there is no requirement to have a knowledge of Thai and you can get your wife to translate for you. Anyone who is qualified for PR and has a Thai wife is also qualified for citizenship which is much easier and cheaper. 

 

I was aware of the questions they would ask before the interview, so prepared answers. I had a list of about 15 questions which i prepared the answers for. I just had to make sure i answered my prepared answer to the right question. They asked me:

 

1. To introduce myself

2. Do i have a Thai wife, and then this followed on about any GF

3. They asked me what number was the King

4. They asked how i took care of my health

 

All very friendly and civilized. 2 ladies on the panel and one gentleman between them who said nothing at all, but appeared friendly. 2 other ladies manning the filming equipment. There were other people waiting who could not speak a word of Thai, so i presume they had practiced for specific questions as well.

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, DepDavid said:

See. Info I have is very old apparently. Is there any study material available anywhere?  I asked because the process for my wife to get citizenship in USA was far easier than me getting PR here. Study material as well as other assistance was easily obtained. Sure she studied hard and did well, I would like to be able to do the same. 

There is plenty online, i did the work route as this was sponsored by my employer, but i used a lawyer as well. Without a lawyer i would never have the time or patience to even attempt it.

I am uncertain of the other routes available, but it appears by reading this thread it is not particularly easy.

[DepDavid]

5 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

I did PR before they introduced the wrinkle requiring knowledge of the Thai language under Thaksin. We were allowed to bring translators to the two interviews which were just with one Immigration officer.  At first the test was just a simple multiple choice that no one could fail.  Now it is a panel interview that requires an intermediate knowledge of Thai. One friend was asked if he had any close Thai friends.  He said yes and was asked to give their names and surnames, which he was able to do.  Another was asked what he felt was his contribution to Thai society.  He understood the question but was unable to answer it in Thai and broke down into English.  He withdrew his application before he got the results and moved back to the US. Another friend couldn't understand any of the questions at all and they give up on him and went on the next guy. He was rejected for some other reason and bought the Elite card instead. 

 

The language test for citizenship is much easier, if you apply through a Thai wife, because, unlike PR, there is no requirement to have a knowledge of Thai and you can get your wife to translate for you. Anyone who is qualified for PR and has a Thai wife is also qualified for citizenship which is much easier and cheaper.  The written test that they can read out the questions for you is in fact the Knowledge of Thailand Test for citizenship, not PR. The policewoman who read it out for me winked when she read each correct multiple choice answer but I got a couple wrong because I thought she just had a tnervous tick. 

My information must be old as I’m sure I read must have PR for 10 years before applying for citizenship. I need to rethink this whole thing and study up on requirements for citizenship. Thanks for the information!!

[DepDavid]

Wife tells me if I apply for citizenship I must renounce my USA citizenship. This wouldn’t be an option for me. 

[DepDavid]

1 hour ago, DepDavid said:

Wife tells me if I apply for citizenship I must renounce my USA citizenship. This wouldn’t be an option for me. 

Also I am retired, over 50, pay tax in my home country. I do not work or pay tax here so I think citizenship is not an option. 

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

I was aware of the questions they would ask before the interview, so prepared answers. I had a list of about 15 questions which i prepared the answers for. I just had to make sure i answered my prepared answer to the right question. They asked me:

 

1. To introduce myself

2. Do i have a Thai wife, and then this followed on about any GF

3. They asked me what number was the King

4. They asked how i took care of my health

 

All very friendly and civilized. 2 ladies on the panel and one gentleman between them who said nothing at all, but appeared friendly. 2 other ladies manning the filming equipment. There were other people waiting who could not speak a word of Thai, so i presume they had practiced for specific questions as well.

When I did the citizenship interview (alone without Thai wife), I was asked my views on the Thai economy and what I thought would happen to the price of gold. Since I had just sung the two songs unaccompanied without error and received a round of applause, having been so nervous I nearly vomited, I was on an adrenaline high by then and no question could phase me. 

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, DepDavid said:

My information must be old as I’m sure I read must have PR for 10 years before applying for citizenship. I need to rethink this whole thing and study up on requirements for citizenship. Thanks for the information!!

 

You need 5 years of PR to apply for citizenship but in 2008 they amended the law to allow males with Thai wives without PR to apply.  However, they still need to show the three year record of work in Thailand with salary tax receipts.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

When I did the citizenship interview (alone without Thai wife), I was asked my views on the Thai economy and what I thought would happen to the price of gold. Since I had just sung the two songs unaccompanied without error and received a round of applause, having been so nervous I nearly vomited, I was on an adrenaline high by then and no question could phase me. 

My interview lasted less than 5 minutes and mostly I talked about my children and doing meditation retreats in the Dalai Lama's town and also at Suan Mokh, the temple of Ajarn Buddadhassa Bikhu. I never had to sing the songs. This was last September.

[thedemon]

On 4/19/2020 at 11:53 PM, Arkady said:

So no change to the existing system, much of which is enshrined in the 1979 Immigration Act and would require an act of parliament to change. The Immigration Act specifies that the quota per nationality may not be set at more than 100 per annum, although it can be less at the discretion of the cabinet.  In fact it is only Chinese that ever reach the quota of 100 and that is only because Hong Kong and Taiwan are included in the China quota. The law also implies that applicants have to be working in Thailand, since it says that profession ability needs to be taken into account and specifically bars anyone who is unable to earn a living due to mental or physical disability.  Anyway it has always been interpreted that way and Immigration has always told people who were interested in applying under the humanitarian category on the grounds they were supporting family in Thailand from overseas income, not to bother.

 

It doesn't sound like that are planning to change the law which wouldn't be a priority for parliament at this time.  It sounds more like they are affirming the present law and I doubt that they would relax the interpretation re working in Thailand because the law implies that is necessary. We have to take into account that the original law was drafted in the context of thousands of Chinese coolies coming to Thailand to work.  After the communist takeover in China they got scared of communist infiltrators coming with the coolies as a 5th column.  So they decided to turn off the spigots and introduce the quota system.  The wording got carried over into the current law.  In 1979 they were no visas for retirees or people married to Thais and they can't possibly have imagined Thailand would become a popular retirement destination for farangs.

 

I recently got hold of a book titled "Double Identity - The Chinese in Modern Thailand" by Richard J. Coughlin, published in 1960.

 

Interestingly the law covering immigration quotas predates the second world war, though it wasn't actually enforced until 1947 when the quota was set at 10,000 for Chinese nationality and 200 each for all other nationalities. The author suggests that this was done to restrict Chinese immigration but at the same time appease them with the fact that the Chinese quota was far higher than all other nationalities. In fact it is likely that no other nationality had ever reached 200 annually anyway.

 

In 1948 Phibun Songkhram cut the Chinese quota to 200, the same as all other nationalities and that was included in the 1950 Immigration Act. In 1952 the quota for stateless people was reduced to 100 but since no further mention is made by the author it can be assumed that the quota remained at 200 until after 1960 (when the book was published).

 

It is amusing to read mention of the "Certificate of Residence" and "Alien Registration Certificate" in the context of the early 1930's meaning that the documentation system for PR's still in use today is approaching 100 years old.

 

 

 

 

[DrTuner]

1 minute ago, thedemon said:

It is amusing to read mention of the "Certificate of Residence" and "Alien Registration Certificate" in the context of the early 1930's meaning that the documentation system for PR's still in use today is approaching 100 years old.

A lot of other things in Thailand are straight out of 30's, too. It was the time when "Thainess" was defined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_cultural_mandates

[ukrules]

What a load of <deleted>

[Arkady]

On 4/21/2020 at 2:50 PM, Neeranam said:

My interview lasted less than 5 minutes and mostly I talked about my children and doing meditation retreats in the Dalai Lama's town and also at Suan Mokh, the temple of Ajarn Buddadhassa Bikhu. I never had to sing the songs. This was last September.

Singing for your citizenship is still required, if you apply on the basis of PR, rather than a Thai spouse.

[Arkady]

On 4/21/2020 at 5:48 PM, thedemon said:

 

I recently got hold of a book titled "Double Identity - The Chinese in Modern Thailand" by Richard J. Coughlin, published in 1960.

 

Interestingly the law covering immigration quotas predates the second world war, though it wasn't actually enforced until 1947 when the quota was set at 10,000 for Chinese nationality and 200 each for all other nationalities. The author suggests that this was done to restrict Chinese immigration but at the same time appease them with the fact that the Chinese quota was far higher than all other nationalities. In fact it is likely that no other nationality had ever reached 200 annually anyway.

 

In 1948 Phibun Songkhram cut the Chinese quota to 200, the same as all other nationalities and that was included in the 1950 Immigration Act. In 1952 the quota for stateless people was reduced to 100 but since no further mention is made by the author it can be assumed that the quota remained at 200 until after 1960 (when the book was published).

 

It is amusing to read mention of the "Certificate of Residence" and "Alien Registration Certificate" in the context of the early 1930's meaning that the documentation system for PR's still in use today is approaching 100 years old.

 

 

Very interesting. There was a lot of hand wringing over the Chinese problem in in the 30s and 40s. During the Great Depression, Thai farmers flocked to the cities after crop prices collapsed due to deflation and their land price also collapsed and was repossessed by Chinese money lenders. There they found there were no jobs for them because Chinese employers favoured recently arrived Chinese employees. That caused the law reserving certain occupations for Thai citizens.

 

At that time Chinese men were reluctant to take Thai citizenship, even if entitled to it by birth in the Kingdom, because they didn't want to do military service and they couldn't get citizenship, once they had dodged conscription.  They had PR and there were no work permits or restrictions on owning businesses.

[Neeranam]

On 4/21/2020 at 5:51 PM, DrTuner said:

A lot of other things in Thailand are straight out of 30's, too. It was the time when "Thainess" was defined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_cultural_mandates

And don't forget Pad Thai, the 'food of the people'. I believe this dish was invented by Paw Piboonsongkram, following in the footsteps of the European 'leaders' in the 1930s who were big on Protectionism/Nationalism. 

[scorecard]

On 4/21/2020 at 4:10 PM, Dogmatix said:

 

You need 5 years of PR to apply for citizenship but in 2008 they amended the law to allow males with Thai wives without PR to apply.  However, they still need to show the three year record of work in Thailand with salary tax receipts.

Your last sentence; is that meaning that PR holders (who have already proved at least 3 years of work (work permits) and clearance of Thai personal tax for the years or work permits as part of gaining PR) don't have to further prove work and tax matters to apply for citizenship? 

 

My understanding (perhaps wrong) is that folks with PR have to prove work (work permits) and tax clearance for at least 3 years immediately prior to applying for citizenship and the work permit / tax clearance situation must continue for a set time (don't know how long) after the application for citizenship has been lodged.

 

Experts, would you please advise.