Permanent residence: Thailand welcomes foreign investors and people with families

[impulse]

On 4/18/2020 at 1:03 AM, Destiny1990 said:

Well how would it work for yourself?

invest here 100% Of the capital and then own just 49% of the business ?

 

I get a kick out of people who think they have to give away 51%.  If you can't find Thai investors willing to pay cash, real estate or other assets in return for their 51%, I'd suggest you rethink your business plan, or your method of raising funds. 

 

You figure Ford or GM or Honda or Chevron gave away 51% of their business to get into Thailand?  

 

As in most areas, there's more money in Thailand looking for opportunities than there are good opportunities to invest in.  Of course, it's not squirreled away in the piggy bank of bar girls.  Which seem to be the business partner of choice for most foreigners claiming they had to give away 51%.

[Monomial]

On 4/16/2020 at 11:39 AM, smutcakes said:

Similar thing happened to me on the income tax issue. I moved companies a few years ago so had less than 3 income tax submission from the same company for 3 years. It would of been difficult to collect all the documents off the old company, but that aside the offices advised me (told me) i am nearly guaranteed to fail, so told me to wait another year so i have 3 years of income tax working at the same company.

 

Its really a pretty archaic system.

 

It is almost impossible in today's economy for anyone to work at the same company for 3 years. In 20+ years living here I have never accomplished that feat. Companies here don't usually last that long unless you are working for one of the big name Thai firms.

 

[KMartinHandyman]

Takes 33 years to payback ฿100k vs. ฿3,000 I spend on retirement extension. 
Add in additional cost and trouble for what return? Must be a young guys game. 

[zhounan]

Welcome like a woman that takes all your money, bleeds you dry, harass you in all the way possible and gives you no human rights. Sad to say, but I hope business and family go elsewhere, in a country more respectful of the human being.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

there is a not so talked about option, of

acquiring lont term visa to thailand by means of investment.

it is called indeed the investment visa.

the amount should be, as far as i know, around 10 million baht, and

it can be tied to real estate or even just bank account.

 

[Arkady]

So no change to the existing system, much of which is enshrined in the 1979 Immigration Act and would require an act of parliament to change. The Immigration Act specifies that the quota per nationality may not be set at more than 100 per annum, although it can be less at the discretion of the cabinet.  In fact it is only Chinese that ever reach the quota of 100 and that is only because Hong Kong and Taiwan are included in the China quota. The law also implies that applicants have to be working in Thailand, since it says that profession ability needs to be taken into account and specifically bars anyone who is unable to earn a living due to mental or physical disability.  Anyway it has always been interpreted that way and Immigration has always told people who were interested in applying under the humanitarian category on the grounds they were supporting family in Thailand from overseas income, not to bother.

 

It doesn't sound like that are planning to change the law which wouldn't be a priority for parliament at this time.  It sounds more like they are affirming the present law and I doubt that they would relax the interpretation re working in Thailand because the law implies that is necessary. We have to take into account that the original law was drafted in the context of thousands of Chinese coolies coming to Thailand to work.  After the communist takeover in China they got scared of communist infiltrators coming with the coolies as a 5th column.  So they decided to turn off the spigots and introduce the quota system.  The wording got carried over into the current law.  In 1979 they were no visas for retirees or people married to Thais and they can't possibly have imagined Thailand would become a popular retirement destination for farangs.

[soi3eddie]

On 4/16/2020 at 4:02 AM, webfact said:

But this will be limited to 100 per nationality.

So if I first obtain nationality of an osbcure tax haven island nation somewhere (from which none of their citizens is ever likely to apply for Thai PR) will that increase my chances of getting Thai PR?

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

So if I first obtain nationality of an osbcure tax haven island nation somewhere (from which none of their citizens is ever likely to apply for Thai PR) will that increase my chances of getting Thai PR?

Not at all. I guess you didn't read the great post above yours.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, KMartinHandyman said:

Takes 33 years to payback ฿100k vs. ฿3,000 I spend on retirement extension. 
Add in additional cost and trouble for what return? Must be a young guys game. 

It's for those who are working, not pensioners.

[Destiny1990]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I get a kick out of people who think they have to give away 51%.  If you can't find Thai investors willing to pay cash, real estate or other assets in return for their 51%, I'd suggest you rethink your business plan, or your method of raising funds. 

 

You figure Ford or GM or Honda or Chevron gave away 51% of their business to get into Thailand?  

 

As in most areas, there's more money in Thailand looking for opportunities than there are good opportunities to invest in.  Of course, it's not squirreled away in the piggy bank of bar girls.  Which seem to be the business partner of choice for most foreigners claiming they had to give away 51%.

USA multinationals don’t have that problem here.

Good luck for u in finding ur reliable thai shareholders investors 49-51 don’t worry!

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Destiny1990

[impulse]

13 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

USA multinationals don’t have that problem here.

Good luck for u in finding ur reliable thai shareholders investors 49-51 don’t worry!

 

You mean US multinationals like Siemens, VW, Grundfos, Toyota, Yamaha, Samsung, and hundreds of others that have formed Thai based divisions, where the home office controls all the tech and the purse strings and business decisions?

 

Once again, if you can't figure out how to do it without giving away the 51%, I'd suggest you rethink your business plan.

 

49% of something is better than 100% of a bunch of excuses.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by impulse

[smutcakes]

8 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

It is almost impossible in today's economy for anyone to work at the same company for 3 years. In 20+ years living here I have never accomplished that feat. Companies here don't usually last that long unless you are working for one of the big name Thai firms.

 

I worked for my 1st company here for 10 years and left because i got a better offer, now been with new company 4 years and counting. Both companies listed on the US Stock Exchange. 

Problem here is that often to make your way up the corporate ladder you need to jump firms. 

[smutcakes]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

USA multinationals don’t have that problem here.

Good luck for u in finding ur reliable thai shareholders investors 49-51 don’t worry!

 

You still did not respond to my previous question. Why would any company give away 51% of their company? Or why would they need to? You clearly have no idea about what your talking about and are just parroting misconceptions. What regulation/law says a thai business needs to have 51% Thai shareholders?

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

You still did not respond to my previous question. Why would any company give away 51% of their company? Or why would they need to? You clearly have no idea about what your talking about and are just parroting misconceptions. What regulation/law says a thai business needs to have 51% Thai shareholders?

Besides the 49-51% rule i am not interested investing in a company here especially with the complicated work permit rules. 

 

there is another thread perhaps you can advice him how to invest his money and double it !

 

Hj1984     1

•  
  •  #1

Posted 6 hours ago

I am Mostafa from Tehran,Iran, I would like to open a 7-11 retail store in Pattaya Thailand. I have already negotiated with CP-ALL company about the conditions and the fees. As i am Iranian i need a Thai citizen partner that would  own 51% of the company share.

I specially welcome to the Thai-Chinese partners. you can contact me by PM.

[Vigilante]

You must be insane to pursue thai PR as long as there are dozens of other places (outside of Asia) that have faster/cheaper (even free) reqs

Marriage alone, in most LatAm countries, will give you citizenship in 3 years or so.

Try that anywhere in Asia (as a male)

Asia doesn't need extra ppl or immigrants of any sort

There are just too many billions to be taken care of, no need to import more.

 

People who continue to come here on a long-term basis (esp US citizens) need a head examination.

..but don't worry...life has a way of rubbing facts in your face eventually

Always heed the warnings/writings on the wall.

Thailand (imo) is finished as a farang destination.

Maybe it never was one.

We created it thru the power of sheer make-believe..(to the contrary wishes of successive govts and facts on the ground)

 

Have a nice day

 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Vigilante

[smutcakes]

13 minutes ago, Vigilante said:

You must be insane to pursue thai PR as long as there are dozens of other places (outside of Asia) that have faster/cheaper (even free) reqs

Marriage alone, in most LatAm countries, will give you citizenship in 3 years or so.

Try that anywhere in Asia (as a male)

Asia doesn't need extra ppl or immigrants of any sort

There are just too many billions to be taken care of, no need to import more.

 

People who continue to come here in a long-term basis (esp US citizens) need a head examination.

..but don't worry...life has a way of rubbing facts in your face eventually

Always heed the warning/writings on the wall.

Thailand (imo) is finished as a farang destination.

Maybe it never was one.

We created it thru the power of sheer make-believe..(to the contrary wishes of successive govts)

 

Have a nice day

 

 

If you live and are happy in Thailand why would you pursue PR in another country.... what an odd post.

[Vigilante]

4 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

If you live and are happy in Thailand why would you pursue PR in another country.... what an odd post.

I'm not happy..and what I said is a warning to others not yet fully comitted or pondering the future

Once my reason to be here (financial) is over, I'm out.

 

Thailand is finished as a farang destination (other then very short-term)

I was saying this for a couple of years now but the Covid scare was a truckful of hay that broke the camel's back.

The lines of decrepit farangs lining up to beg for a visa extension should be a wake-up call , among many.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[smutcakes]

22 minutes ago, Vigilante said:

I'm not happy..and what I said is a warning to others not yet fully comitted or pondering the future

Once my reason to be here (financial) is over, I'm out.

 

Thailand is finished as a farang destination (other then very short-term)

I was saying this for a couple of years now but the Covid scare was a truckful of hay that broke the camel's back.

The lines of decrepit farangs lining up to beg for a visa extension should be a wake-up call , among many.

 

Even with PR you are not full committed you can simply walk away.

I would be interested to know whats so terrible about Thailand now. I have been here 15 years or so, things change, but nothing has changed much in terms of day to day living.

Whats suddenly got so bad that your everyday life is being affected?

 

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the influx of Chinese and Russian has ruined it for them.... I mean how? How do there being Russians and Chinese here make it so terrible for anyone day to day?

[JackThompson]

On 4/16/2020 at 10:37 AM, 4MyEgo said:

What is so precious about permanent residency in Thailand, marriage or retirement extensions are enough, albeit they are very repetative and waste a lot of paper and peoples time, both sides of the fence.

The qualifications for marriage or retirement based extensions can be changed in the future, as many retirees discovered recently.  It's "one year at a time," only.  PR or Citizenship are the only ways to "know you can stay in Thailand long-term." 

 

If you are wealthy, you can be relatively certain to meet whatever future-changes will be made to retirement/marriage annual-application qualifications.  So, those who "need it most" - to be secure here with their families - are the least-likely to get PR or Citizenship granted.  Meanwhile, those who can get those, almost certainly won't need it.

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, Vigilante said:

You must be insane to pursue thai PR as long as there are dozens of other places (outside of Asia) that have faster/cheaper (even free) reqs

Marriage alone, in most LatAm countries, will give you citizenship in 3 years or so.

Try that anywhere in Asia (as a male)

Asia doesn't need extra ppl or immigrants of any sort

There are just too many billions to be taken care of, no need to import more.

 

People who continue to come here on a long-term basis (esp US citizens) need a head examination.

..but don't worry...life has a way of rubbing facts in your face eventually

Always heed the warnings/writings on the wall.

Thailand (imo) is finished as a farang destination.

Maybe it never was one.

We created it thru the power of sheer make-believe..(to the contrary wishes of successive govts and facts on the ground)

 

Have a nice day

 

 

Yes, it is a fairly difficult process but, if you are happy living and working here, it makes sense for a lot of people.  Also, after 5 years with PR, you are eligible for citizenship which is a cheaper and easier process.  Those working in Thailand and married to Thais may apply for citizenship without getting PR first since 2008.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

So, those who "need it most" - to be secure here with their families - are the least-likely to get PR or Citizenship granted.  Meanwhile, those who can get those, almost certainly won't need it.

That is where it is absurd, I mean I don't need it as I a financially in a good place and my wife and kids have dual citizenships, so if they pulled the rug from under our feet, we would exit on the first available flight.

 

Why they don't grant PR to those married to Thai's is beyond me, where in my home country it was given without a problem, and citizenship was up to the PR to apply for it, again given without a problem, like I said, I don't need it, it's not a big deal for me, but for the life of me don't see what is so special about having PR in Thailand.

 

The way I see it, they should be pushing for it, less paperwork, less trips to immigration and secures future farangs marrying Thai's who would look at staying here and contributing to the Thai economy, is it xenephobia ?

Edited April 20, 2020 by 4MyEgo

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

The way I see it, they should be pushing for it, less paperwork, less trips to immigration and secures future farangs marrying Thai's who would look at staying here and contributing to the Thai economy, is it xenephobia ?

My experience has erased any illusion that immigration wants farangs supporting Thais, or avoiding their annual gauntlet-runs.  Granted, the gauntlet is a cake-walk, if you have plenty of money and take the "bad guy" approach - buy extensions through an agent.

 

I think the xenophobia/sterotyping is just a way to get the front-line stormtroopers* to be aggressive in driving applicants to agents.  But who knows - maybe some bigwigs are really dumb and/or ignorant enough to believe fact-free bigoted notions.

 

* (The front-line IOs being put at risk of virus, by continued annual-extension application processing.  This, after the under-consideration / "must come twice" policy, for the first round of covid-extensions)

[Vigilante]

4 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Even with PR you are not full committed you can simply walk away.

I would be interested to know whats so terrible about Thailand now. I have been here 15 years or so, things change, but nothing has changed much in terms of day to day living.

Whats suddenly got so bad that your everyday life is being affected?

 

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the influx of Chinese and Russian has ruined it for them.... I mean how? How do there being Russians and Chinese here make it so terrible for anyone day to day?

The fact that I have zero rights after 16 years, for starters

Ok..I knew that from the get-go but given my circumstances at the time, Asia was the only choice

 

Getting to LatAm (and commuting occasionally back) was and still is a major pain from my decrepit hellhole of a country.

It's also expensive.

 

 

 

 

[Arkady]

Western countries still think of themselves as countries of immigration to a more or lesser extent (the UK having switched to being a lesser extent).  Thailand viewed itself as a country of of Immigration in the past but that came to an end in the early 1950s when they inroduced the quota system for PR which was the only visa available for more than 3 months at the time. Unfortunately I don't see anything changing in that outlook. They now have millions of foreign labourers, whom they have no intention of allowing to settle permanently.

 

When the Nationality law was amended in 2008 to allow foreign men the right to apply for citizenship without PR first, the same as foreign women married to Thais, the original bill actually made the right identical, i.e. foreign men could apply without working in Thailand, just like foreign wives. The minutes of a meeting of the security and legal department of the Interior Ministry to advise parliament on this bill were posted online.  They concluded that allowing foreign men to apply for citizenship on exactly the same terms as foreign women would constitute a grave security risk without expanding on the rationale for that in the published minutes.  Parliament accepted the recommended and the amendment required foreign men to be working in Thailand just like PR does. I think that reflects the attitude that still prevails today. Of course it is discriminatory towards Thai women. which was the justification for amending the law in 2008 in the first place.

 

 

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

My experience has erased any illusion that immigration wants farangs supporting Thais, or avoiding their annual gauntlet-runs.  Granted, the gauntlet is a cake-walk, if you have plenty of money and take the "bad guy" approach - buy extensions through an agent.

 

I think the xenophobia/sterotyping is just a way to get the front-line stormtroopers* to be aggressive in driving applicants to agents.  But who knows - maybe some bigwigs are really dumb and/or ignorant enough to believe fact-free bigoted notions.

 

* (The front-line IOs being put at risk of virus, by continued annual-extension application processing.  This, after the under-consideration / "must come twice" policy, for the first round of covid-extensions)

While we are on the subject of "visa's/extensions" I think we are all going to see immigration scrambling to retain and add farangs to the already diluted farang population here in Thailand, whether that be by tweaking the requirements or making it easier for PR, it doesn't take much to do the math, a lot of farangs have already left for various reasons, and tourism will never be as it was before because most people don't have save money and those currently out of work with no income who have to pay rents, mortgages will be delaying any holidays because of money issues and will also be waiting to see how the Covid-19 pans out vaccine wise.

 

Also I think a lot of them will be concerned and wanting to see if their employers will start them up again as its an opportunity for most employers to reduce staff numbers as it falls outside the "protectionism" laws for employees. 

 

I will be watching with an eager eye to see if my prediction pans out as most do. 

[Dogmatix]

I think it should be pretty obvious that Thailand only tolerates a large community of foreigners living on pensions but doesn't want to encourage more to come. Whether they have Thai families or not doesn't make any difference to the official Thai mindset. They already have a system to allow a quota to apply for permanent residence, if they are working in the country and earning at least 80,000 a month.  Those who are not working but are well off can get long-term visas with minimal hassle by buying Elite cards. It is obvious that they don't think foreign pensioners who can't afford Elite cards can add an awful lot of value but do think that they could be a security threat. 

 

As far as they are concerned, the 1979 Immigration Act is extremely flexible because it allows creation of new types of visa and  changes to existing ones including fees just by issuing police orders without any parliamentary scrutiny. The only type of visa that does need an act of parliament to change the conditions is PR.  I can't recall over decades any push to amend or replace the Immigration Act, which I think has never been amended since 1979 even once. I think that, if they ever did reform PR, it would be streamline things like replacing the mouldy old red books PRs are supposed to carry around with a smart ID card specific to PRs instead of the pink thing they can get that is designed for stateless persons. But this would put out of work a number of Snr Sgt Majors at CW who do nothing but prepare the paperwork to issue these books and alien registration officers in police stations around the country who do nothing but issue the red books and endorse them every 5 years.  While Immigration remains part of the police and the PR process remains under the Interior Ministry, I can't see any change coming in the official mindset. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Dogmatix

[DrTuner]

22 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Those who are not working but are well off can get long-term visas with minimal hassle by buying Elite cards.

Which doesn't let you work, can be cancelled on a whim (PR is at least different section of immigration act), still has all the 90d jazz, doesn't let you get a 5y license, etc. It's a souped up tourist visa, which reminds you in the back of your head constantly "we can get rid of you any day". The golf buggy and gold clad ladies at swampy are nice though, but they are not government, they are from the Thailand Elite company. I joined because I couldn't stand the face of the IO at the Jomthien marriage desk anymore. 

[Dogmatix]

5 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Which doesn't let you work, can be cancelled on a whim (PR is at least different section of immigration act), still has all the 90d jazz, doesn't let you get a 5y license, etc. It's a souped up tourist visa, which reminds you in the back of your head constantly "we can get rid of you any day". The golf buggy and gold clad ladies at swampy are nice though, but they are not government, they are from the Thailand Elite company. I joined because I couldn't stand the face of the IO at the Jomthien marriage desk anymore. 

You can work on an Elite card visa. I know several people who do pr have. I don't have an Elite card but I am told that you get whisked through, if you ever need to go to CW for anything but all the holders I have known travelled regularly, so they didn't ever have to do 90 day reporting or renew the visa at CW. I agree with you that PR is much better than an Elite card but I know a couple of people who had applied unsuccessfully for PR because they screwed up their applications and decided that the Elite route was a lot easier and they didn't care about the cost. They liked the idea of just paying your money and its done, rather than filing out copious forms, chasing after documents like home country police clearance for weeks and neither could speak Thai at all well and felt intimidated in the PR interview when they couldn't understand the questions.  I can understand their point of view and I think there are a lot of people who like the convenience of the Elite card, despite its lack of permanence

 

 

[DrTuner]

5 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

You can work on an Elite card visa.

No, you need to get a non-immigrant B and cancel the PE visa. The Thailand Elite membership survives that, in case that is what you mean with "Elite card visa". You do get a plastic card with your member number when you join. Different from the PE visa itself.

 

https://www.thailandelite.com/faqs?locate=en&popup=false

Edited April 20, 2020 by DrTuner

[Yadon Toploy]

19 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

No, you need to get a non-immigrant B and cancel the PE visa. The Thailand Elite membership survives that, in case that is what you mean with "Elite card visa". You do get a plastic card with your member number when you join. Different from the PE visa itself.

 

https://www.thailandelite.com/faqs?locate=en&popup=false

That's as clear as mud with some bad English.

 

I'm still none the wiser.