Comparing Cambodia's and Thailand's Covid-19 response and its success

[yuyiinthesky]

Comparing Cambodia's and Thailand's Covid-19 response and its success

 

Cambodia - 0 new cases for almost 3 weeks
Thailand - Less than 10 new cases for a few days.

 

Cambodia - Beaches open 
Thailand - Beaches closed 

 

Cambodia - Sales of alcohol allowed 
Thailand - Sales of alcohol banned

 

Cambodia - Social distancing requested and encouraged
Thailand - Social distancing mandatory 

 

Cambodia - Masks requested and encouraged, but no fines
Thailand - Masks mandatory, fines if not wearing

 

Cambodia - Private parties allowed 
Thailand - Private parties forbidden  

 

Cambodia - Bigger public gatherings forbidden
Thailand - Public gatherings forbidden

 

Cambodia - Schools and Gyms closed
Thailand - Schools and Gyms closed

 

Cambodia - Bars / KTVs/ Entertainments closed, some businesses closed
Thailand - Bars / KTVs/ Entertainments closed, but also markets, and most non essential businesses

 

Cambodia - Khmer New Year (Songkran) postponed, private celebrations allowed
Thailand - Songkran cancelled

 

Cambodia - Now curfew
Thailand - Nightly curfew

 

Cambodia - No roadblocks, traveling allowed (except at Khmer New Year for a few days to discourage traveling from Phnom Penh to provinces)
Thailand - Roadblocks, non essentiell traveling not allowed

 

Cambodia - no lockdowns of cities
Thailand - Lockdown of Pattaya and Phuket

 

(I might have missed some points, feel free to add them, or correct me if I got a point wrong.)

 

And again:

Cambodia - 0 new cases for almost 3 weeks
Thailand - Less than 10 new cases for a few days.

As Cambodia shows, there is no need for closing the beaches, closing all "non-essentiell" business, enforcing social distancing and masks with fines, massive travel restrictions, curfews, lockdowns of cities, and banning alcohol - without all that Cambodia managed to get to 0 new cases, for almost 3 weeks already, despite the massive amount of Chinese there.

 

 

To save you some typing, here some of the usual scaremonger and pessimist comments ???? :

"Wait for the 2nd (3rd, 4th) wave, it will be terrible."
"They are not testing, probably the dead bodies are piling up somewhere."
"The study is not peer reviewed, must be wrong."
"These irresponsible Cambodians, they will infect us all."
"The WHO / China / Trump / Biden / <someone else> says this cannot be."

Edited April 30, 2020 by yuyiinthesky

[lkv]

33 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

They are not testing, probably the dead bodies are piling up somewhere."

I am not even sure they have a PCR machine, people are going to Thailand for better medical.

 

I'm exagerrating a bit, but the quality is not that great, to be nice about it.

 

And no, they are not testing.

 

They don't want to test, and if they wanted to test, they would not have enough equipment to do it with, probably.

 

North Korea also has "zero cases", but Kim has gone into hiding.

 

Cambodia's PM is Hun Sen, Thailand's Prayuth. Kind of enough said.

Edited April 30, 2020 by lkv

[yuyiinthesky]

5 minutes ago, lkv said:

I am not even sure they have a PCR machine, surely you are aware of people going to Thailand for better medical.

 

I'm exagerrating a bit, but the quality is not that great, to be nice about it.

 

And no, they are not testing.

You might want to check better before making such claims:

From the FaceBook page of Institut Pasteur du Cambodge (IPC):

 

Quote

The World Health Organization (WHO) has named Institut Pasteur du Cambodge (IPC) as an International Reference Laboratory for COVID-19. 

 

Source: The FakeBook page of Institut Pasteur du Cambodge (IPC).
 

Quote

In a statement released on Tuesday, IPC director Dr Laurence Baril said it had maintained BLS-3-level biosafety while administering all diagnostic tests in accordance with WHO interim guidance and had implemented, validated and ensured full diagnostic capacity to identify and respond to Covid-19.

 

He said IPC was working closely with the Cambodian Centre for Disease Control (CDC) to ensure all nasal and throat swab samples it received are processed accordingly and in a timely manner.

“All samples have been tested to the highest standards, and any suspected cases have been tested multiple times to ensure validity,” they said.

 

With a request from the Ministry of Health, Baril said IPC recently tested 1,580 passengers from the MS Westerdam cruise ship and all were found negative of Covid-19.

 

Source: https://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/pasteur-committed-combatting-covid-19

 

That was February 27, and apparently they already have done thousands of test. 
 

Performing such tests is not that difficult. There is no need to go to Thailand for that.
 

[yuyiinthesky]

14 minutes ago, lkv said:

Secondly, you might be surprised to find out North Korea has "zero cases", but Kim has gone into hiding.

Sorry, I have no information about North Korea or Mr Kim, and I don't really care about him.

[yuyiinthesky]

15 minutes ago, lkv said:

Now let me ask you this: have you heard of two other individuals named Hun Sen and Prayut Chan-o-Cha before?

I will not make any comment about these two, please have a look at the Thaivisa policies before inciting me to do so.

[lkv]

 

9 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

and apparently they already have done thousands of test. 

In how many months, when other countries do tens of thousands per day?

 

Is there any testing facility apart from this institute in the whole of Cambodia?

Edited April 30, 2020 by lkv

[yuyiinthesky]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

Is there any testing facility apart from this institute in the whole of Cambodia?

Does it matter?

Cambodia is a small country, much smaller than Thailand.

[lkv]

Just now, yuyiinthesky said:

Does it matter?

Cambodia is a small country, much smaller than Thailand.

It does, because here's what's gonna happen.

 

Once this is over (well at least the hype is over), these countries that are now not testing, will falsely promote themselves as hubs of health and wellbeing, trashing countries that had the decency to be transparent, do testing, and declare numbers.

[yuyiinthesky]

9 minutes ago, lkv said:

It does, because here's what's gonna happen.

 

Once this is over (well at least the hype is over), these countries that are now not testing, will falsely promote themselves as hubs of health and wellbeing, trashing countries that had the decency to be transparent, do testing, and declare numbers.

If a small country like Cambodia has 1 lab or 10 labs does not really matter in that context.

Edited April 30, 2020 by yuyiinthesky

[lkv]

2 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

If a small country like Cambodia has 1 Lab or 10 Labs does not really matter in that context, doesn't it?

Ok you are right. One lab for 16 million is enough. Why did I start commenting on this thread, not sure. 

 

I will leave now ????

Edited April 30, 2020 by lkv

[yuyiinthesky]

10 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Cambodia - Now curfew
Thailand - Nightly curfew

Correction:

Cambodia - No curfew
Thailand - Nightly curfew

I apologize for the typo, dunno how that slipped in.

Edited May 1, 2020 by yuyiinthesky

[Rancid]

I suspect later down the track when more is known about covid that we may find that countries with low numbers didn't do anything special, but rather it was other factors.

 

We look at the US, some lock down states have worse numbers than open states and vice versa. Same in Europe, Sweden is not locked down, has better numbers than some locked and worse than others.

 

Seems that there are other factors in play. Some evidence suggests lock downs make it worse, others that ventilators are actually killing many people. We have reports of some hospitals very busy and others completely deserted. Some matters will never come to light as reflect poorly on some choices.

[Burma Bill]

Quote:-

"Cambodia - Bars / KTVs/ Entertainments closed, some businesses closed"

CORRECTION - Many bars still OPEN here in Siem Reap. Only some of the much larger "tourist" bars are closed due to lack of "tourists'. The "Home Brew Pub" just around the corner from my apartment has never closed.

[Burma Bill]

3 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Correction:

Cambodia - No curfew
Thailand - Nightly curfew

I apologize for the typo, dunno how that slipped in.

Quite right - NO curfew here in Siem Reap!

[Burma Bill]

Cambodia - I would also like to point out that for the past week, soccer players have been training on a floodlit pitch alongside the apartment block where I live in Siem Reap. The facility was closed for 3 weeks but has now re-opened. Any soccer players training together in draconian Thailand - I bet not!!!

[Nanaplaza666]

Seems to me that everybody except 1 here is bashing thailand and cheering for cambodia . Maybe you guys are on the wrong website , i think you should move to the CVF . Just a thought . 

[yuyiinthesky]

51 minutes ago, Nanaplaza666 said:

Seems to me that everybody except 1 here is bashing thailand and cheering for cambodia . Maybe you guys are on the wrong website , i think you should move to the CVF . Just a thought . 

It was never my intention to bash Thailand, I apologize if I gave that impression. 
My intention was to compare if closing the beaches and lockdown are required to get Covid 19 infections down to zero, and Cambodia, Thailands neighbor, did so successfully, without closing beaches and curfews and lockdowns.

 

[zhorik]

Cambodia has done more tests a million than India and Nigeria etc. 723.  The number of deaths attributed to Covid19 has been exagerrated and evidence shows that lockdown causes more deaths throough creating unemployment, poverty and hypertension.

It may mitigate the no of deaths caused by Covid19 but the cure is worse than the disease.

[drbeach]

Slightly exaggerated.

 

Thailand - masks not mandatory across the board. Depends on the province, and many out here are not wearing them. Need to be worn in stores and public transport. Cambodia - would be surprised if they weren't mandatory, but enforcement varies. Certainly mandatory for entering stores and public transport I'd imagine, and like in other regional countries, foreigners seen not wearing them makes the locals uneasy.

 

Stores - some about to re-open in Thailand

 

Social distancing - let's not exaggerate; plenty of people exercising together where I live (mostly family members) but also friends

 

Road blocks - many of them have been removed in recent days/weeks. More to be removed over the course of May. Some reports no road blocks on major highways such as Bangkok to Nong Khai (Lao border). Lock downs to be eased in Pattaya

 

Massive amount of Chinese in Cambodia - true, but many left before the borders closed

 

I certainly agree that the response in Thailand and other countries like Myanmar, Vietnam and Malaysia has been like using a sledgehammer to break a nut, but the reality on the ground is that what is supposed to happen in theory and what happens in practice is not the same thing

[Thingamabob]

I don't believe the numbers from Cambodia.

[drbeach]

3 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Cambodia - I would also like to point out that for the past week, soccer players have been training on a floodlit pitch alongside the apartment block where I live in Siem Reap. The facility was closed for 3 weeks but has now re-opened. Any soccer players training together in draconian Thailand - I bet not!!!

People playing basketball outdoors in Thailand where I live; just saw it today. Let's not exaggerate...even in Vietnam, where I was expecting to see very draconian measures...people have been disobeying them. Governments don't have as much control as they think they have. tennis and other non-contact sports to be officially allowed again on May 3, but on Meetup groups I've seen tennis being advertised throughout April in Bangkok.

 

I agree with you that Cambodia looks like the most easygoing country in the region through the crisis. Myanmar, with a similar number of cases to Cambodia, has roughly the same restrictions as Thailand including a night time curfew from 10pm to 4am.

[Letseng]

17 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Does it matter?

Cambodia is a small country, much smaller than Thailand.

Not only this but Cambodia has a younger population than Thailand. Younger people fare better with Covid19. Many may not show symptoms. People also can't afford hospital treatment therefore don't go, who checks what ppl die from? 

[samtab]

Not really accurate to compare with such a small country maybe ?

[yuyiinthesky]

An update about Cambodia. 

 

Quote

COVID-19 cases in Cambodia almost at zero with just two remaining active cases and a new recovery

The Ministry of Health in a statement this morning said that 120th recovery out of 122 once active cases, now leaves just two active cases, one each in Benteay Meanchey and Kompong Cham province.
 

This is a more than 98 percent recovery rate and barring any new cases, which has not been detected in the past 20 days, and with the imminent recovery of the last two active cases Cambodia would probably be the first country in the world to achieve 100 percent recovery of active cases within a short period of time.
 

The recovered 58-year-old Cambodian man had been with direct contact with a group of French tourists who had been infected with the virus and to date, remained the biggest cluster infections in the country with 40 cases.
 

All of the French cases have been discharged and most of them have believed to have already made their way home.
 

A Ministry of Health source said that Cambodia’s public health officials, especially front line personnel had gained immense knowledge and capacity in attending to the cases in the 13 provinces to the extend that they have treated and seen the recovery of 120 cases.
 

They had been aided by the WHO, Chinese medical personnel, CDC USA and material assistance from many countries.
 

Now the challenge remains to opening up the economic activities step by step to halt a possible meltdown of the economy that could push the nation into serious recession which in turn could lead to mass job losses besides the more than 100,000 jobs lost the garment sector, 90,000 migrant workers from Thailand, tens of thousands of hotel and service industry workers and many more tens of thousands in the informal sector who are dependent on the formal sector for their livelihood.

Source: https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50719416/covid-19-cases-in-cambodia-almost-at-zero-with-just-two-remaining-active-cases-and-a-new-recovery/

I think this is a remarkable achievement, especially also considering the information from Burma Bill from Siem Reap, that bars never really closed and team sport such as playing soccer continued.

Sorry to all the lockdown fans, but I think this is a strong case that the draconian lockdowns are not needed, also not in Thailand.

[BritManToo]

23 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Sorry to all the lockdown fans, but I think this is a strong case that the draconian lockdowns are not needed, also not in Thailand.

Disease is transmitted indoors, Cambodia, everything is outdoors.

 

[unblocktheplanet]

On 5/1/2020 at 3:41 PM, Burma Bill said:

Only some of the much larger "tourist" bars are closed due to lack of "tourists'. The "Home Brew Pub" just around the corner from my apartment has never closed.

I thought all furriners were ordered to leave. An American acquaintance living in Siem Reap decamped to Laos. BTW, Villa only wishes it could be as good as your Angkor Market! Hope those supply lines stay open.

[yuyiinthesky]

8 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

I thought all furriners were ordered to leave. An American acquaintance living in Siem Reap decamped to Laos.

Where did you get that from? Must be a misunderstanding. If I remember correctly the embassy of the USA did ask the USA citizens to go home, but as far as I know there was never any request by Cambodian authorities for the foreigners living there to leave.

[yuyiinthesky]

Meanwhile my theory, that the Covid 19 virus did already spread through Thailand and Cambodia in December and January, and nobody noticed, got strong support coming from France. There a sample from patient with flu symptoms got retested:
 

Quote

They ran new tests on old swabs taken from patients in the Paris region. One of them, from a man living in a suburb of the French capital, came back positive for COVID-19. The 43-year-old man was admitted to the hospital on December 27, four weeks before the first three cases in Europe were confirmed.

And this guy wasn't even in China, or in direct contact with Chinese. 
 

Quote

The man who was treated in December for pneumonia told French broadcaster BFMTV that to his knowledge, he had not been to China and was not in contact with anyone who had been there. The only explanation that he could think of was that his wife, who tested negative, works in a supermarket near Charles de Gaulle Airport, where foreign tourists often shop on arrival in France.

Sources:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/french-doctors-find-coronavirus-case-from-month-before-virus-was-believed-to-have-been-in-europe/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920301643

Thanks to Puccini for posting it first:

 

There is absolutely no way that this did not happen and the Covid 19 virus wasn't already spreading in Thailand and Cambodia in December 2019 and January 2020, or even earlier - and nobody noticed, because almost all infections are asymptotic.

I think this is very good news:

• The big dying did not happen!
• A second wave will not come, the population is through it already, and still in good shape.
• Lockdowns and curfews are not needed.
• Borders between Cambodia and Thailand, and probably Vietnam, Myanmar and Laos can get opened again, they are all in the same situation.

However bad news for scaremongers, the virus did run through these countries and did not enough damage to get noticed.

(But by all means, keep on your masks and stay in your rooms, if it makes you feel better. Whatever you do, if you're in Thailand or Cambodia, you will fail to get infected, so keeping on your masks and staying in your room will not increase your risk, zero is zero.)

 

[lamyai3]

On 5/1/2020 at 2:23 AM, yuyiinthesky said:

Cambodia - 0 new cases for almost 3 weeks
Thailand - Less than 10 new cases for a few days.

Two things both countries have in common. 

1) Low numbers of cases and deaths despite early exposure. 

2) The same hot, humid climate. 

[yuyiinthesky]

3 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Two things both countries have in common. 

1) Low numbers of cases and deaths despite early exposure. 

2) The same hot, humid climate. 

and massive exposure to visitors from China and Wuhan, thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, bringing in any virus which runs around in Wuhan the next day already.

Edited May 8, 2020 by yuyiinthesky