How to check the build quality of a condo and its renovation history

[bkknovice]

Hello everyone,

 

I have been looking at some condos in Bangkok and was wondering how to know the build quality and renovation history of a condo. A condo I'd like to buy was built in 2012 by Grand Unity. I am not sure if I buy one now, apart from the monthly common area maintenance fees, what other hidden fees I would have to incur in keeping this condo? Could any long-time condo owners tell me realistically what costs I have to bear 10 years down the road if I own a 10-year-old property? Things like renovating the exterior facade, fixing the main broken pipes, etc, are these costs shared by each household and how much can it amount to? I have been googling for a long time but can't find much info. I am concerned because I might postpone the purchase or simply choose to rent instead if the costs of keeping a condo is too high. Thanks so much for your help in advance.

[scubascuba3]

If the yearly common fee isn't enough an emergency fund fee is requested so the common fee can be misleading, check the last AGM minutes and accounts to get a feel for the place.

 

I noticed that even though a condo can have relatively high common fee per metre it can still look run down. Corruption and syphoning off is very real

[bkknovice]

Thanks. I just read there is a repair fund fee to be collected like 500 baht per sqm of the condo you own. I wonder how often they collect this fee, and who decides when a building needs major general repairs? These repairs can cost a lot in my home country so I'd like to know how it's done in Thailand so there aren't nasty surprises...

[thaibeachlovers]

Not seriously considering buying property in LOS? 55555555555555555

Do some research and make the right decision- rent.

[ezzra]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not seriously considering buying property in LOS? 55555555555555555

Do some research and make the right decision- rent.

What is wrong in buying property and not paying rent? if your long terms plans are to live in this city

what are the downside to owning a condo, i have bought several few years back and they tripled in values so who the the smart one now?... to the OP, just try to get the most info you can get, but juristic and condo mangers and staff are not always forthcoming with information...

[cmarshall]

There are many reasons to rent, one of which is that buildings in Thailand are not well-maintained.  Condo owners don't seem to be willing to bear the true costs of maintenance.  Nor are their building standards up to those in the West.  Thais don't like to buy in old buildings, so they are often torn down and replaced.  Even if I had permanent residence in Thailand, which I don't, I would never buy here.  

 

However, if I wanted to find out about the condition of a building I would hang around it and chat up foreigners about the quality of the building, the governance, competence of staff, etc.  The insiders know the scoop, if you can get them to talk to you.  I don't think the Thai tenants would be willing to talk to a stranger about their building.

[Peterw42]

OP,  8 years later there should still be funds in the sinking fund to cover major repairs etc.

 

The original purchaser (from the developer) contributes to the sinking fund a one off payment, and the funds are held for major upgrades and repairs. (from memory the sinking fund even gets a special gov backed high interest account). It ends up being a substantial amount, 10-20 million baht for an average block.

 

The figure you quote of 500 baht sqm, sounds like an original sinking fund contribution, paid by the first purchaser. (maybe it is a purchase from the original developer)

 

I have a condo also built in 2012, the sinking fund still has a healthy balance, and the building has been repainted from those funds.

 

Unless the building has had a major repair or upgrade, the sinking fund should be full of money to cover any repairs for the immediate future. Its only after the sinking fund is all spent (20 years later) that an extra one off levies would be introduced and only if a major repair needs funding.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Peterw42

[OneMoreFarang]

I live in my condominium since many years. Over time they made lots of "repairs" which I think were not really necessary like painting the whole building new, doing some expensive renovation in the lobby, etc. And then the emergency happened and the building needed new water pipes and lifts. There was no money left for these important repairs and the owners had to pay again.

[mokwit]

15 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I live in my condominium since many years. Over time they made lots of "repairs" which I think were not really necessary like painting the whole building new, doing some expensive renovation in the lobby, etc. And then the emergency happened and the building needed new water pipes and lifts. There was no money left for these important repairs and the owners had to pay again.

The money is spent on what prospective tenants see. Also you can have a situation where someone has a lot of influence and the money is spent in ways that benefit him.

[mokwit]

38 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Its only after the sinking fund is all spent (20 years later) that an extra one off levies would be introduced and only if a major repair needs funding.

It is about that time that new water pipes and lifts have to be paid for.

[bodga]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Corruption and syphoning off is very real

with  barely  any  follow  up, also  you  will  get  neighbours  above  with  leaking  showers water pipes  etc, Wife  owns 7,  youll  need  to  check  up  on them regularly, letting anyone else take  care  can be too  much like  temptation as Wife  found one recently,  allegedly empty with someone living in it, she reported it to the owner overseas.

[bkknovice]

12 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I live in my condominium since many years. Over time they made lots of "repairs" which I think were not really necessary like painting the whole building new, doing some expensive renovation in the lobby, etc. And then the emergency happened and the building needed new water pipes and lifts. There was no money left for these important repairs and the owners had to pay again.

This is what I am afraid of! That I have no say in what repairs should be taken and they will use this excuse to take money from the owners... How often did they ask you for more money? And how much have you spent on these repairs on these years?

[bkknovice]

BTW, does it matter which developer built the condo? Are some developers better than the others? Is Grand Unity better known for the build quality of its condos? I am looking at one of their projects, U Delight, and the reviews I read are quite positive. I am not looking for luxury condo but simply a decent and stylish one. But again. I guess, as some of you said, I'll never know for sure unless I can live there and talk to the tenants there....

Edited July 19, 2020 by bkknovice

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, bkknovice said:

BTW, does it matter which developer built the condo? Are some developers better than the others? Is Grand Unity better known for the build quality of its condos?

There is a long list what to look at.

Some time ago I knew a guy in the property business. I invited him to a good lunch and asked him for an hour for tips and tricks. Maybe you should do something similar.

 

Here is just one of the things which he suggested which I would never have thought about: He told me to look at the parking space. Which cars do you see? In which conditions are the cars? In which condition is the parking area? ...

That will tell you already a lot about the people who live there and in part about the maintenance. 

[bkknovice]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 I invited him to a good lunch and asked him for an hour for tips and tricks. Maybe you should do something similar.

 

Thanks for this tip.  I hope they are this easy to "bribe", or maybe I should invite you to lunch instead LOL
I just knew the condo I wanna buy only offers rental contracts of at least 1-year. At least that's what it says on the website. I looked on airbnb and I cannot find a single flat available for rent. If I want to stay in that condo for a few days/weeks, could I negotiate with the agents /condo owners about it? I am not going to buy a condo unless I can do a trial stay. Do agents/condo owners accommodate this request if I am honest about it? Has anyone else had any experience doing this?

Edited July 19, 2020 by bkknovice

[scubascuba3]

When you move from renting to owning you are just swapping one set of problems for another, once you buy you have the common fees \ emergency fees open ended liabilities, the only way to control it is ensure the committee and juristic office are good, if not try and get on and change it

[OneZero]

6 hours ago, bkknovice said:

Thanks for this tip.  I hope they are this easy to "bribe", or maybe I should invite you to lunch instead LOL
I just knew the condo I wanna buy only offers rental contracts of at least 1-year. At least that's what it says on the website. I looked on airbnb and I cannot find a single flat available for rent. If I want to stay in that condo for a few days/weeks, could I negotiate with the agents /condo owners about it? I am not going to buy a condo unless I can do a trial stay. Do agents/condo owners accommodate this request if I am honest about it? Has anyone else had any experience doing this?

Good for mgt to not allow airbnb or other short stay potential vagabonds (not you).  It's one indication the bldg could be well run.

[Darksidedude]

On 7/19/2020 at 2:41 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Not seriously considering buying property in LOS? 55555555555555555

Do some research and make the right decision- rent.

i have brought and sold a few condos over the years, i have never lost money when i have sold them never made much money either BUT i lived for years not having to pay rent.

 

Paying rent is dead money end of story, same as with anywhere else in the world.

[phantomfiddler]

Just ask a few people who have lived in the condo for a while ????

[eyup]

11 minutes ago, Darksidedude said:

i have brought and sold a few condos over the years, i have never lost money when i have sold them never made much money either BUT i lived for years not having to pay rent.

 

Paying rent is dead money end of story, same as with anywhere else in the world.

Indeed! But it is lightly different renting in . foreign country IMHO 1) Let's say you decide to move on to pastures new -renting easy! 2) Seen some very extortionate management fees over here -renting, the owners problem not yours. 3) Build quality generally poor-renting move to a newer place when the other one starts deteriorating in quality.

[khunjeff]

On 7/19/2020 at 7:04 AM, cmarshall said:

Thais don't like to buy in old buildings, so they are often torn down and replaced. 

Have you ever heard of this actually happening in Bangkok - I mean tearing down a condominium (not apartment or shophouse) building? I haven't, so I can't imagine that it's a common occurrence. Even in other countries, it normally only happens when the land under the building has become so valuable that it's worth more than all the units combined, or when the building has been damaged beyond repair by something like a fire or earthquake.

Edited July 21, 2020 by khunjeff

[CH1961]

On 7/19/2020 at 5:41 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Not seriously considering buying property in LOS? 55555555555555555

Do some research and make the right decision- rent.

I love this math researchers ????

They pay my mia noi ????

[newnative]

On 7/19/2020 at 6:06 AM, ezzra said:

What is wrong in buying property and not paying rent? if your long terms plans are to live in this city

what are the downside to owning a condo, i have bought several few years back and they tripled in values so who the the smart one now?... to the OP, just try to get the most info you can get, but juristic and condo mangers and staff are not always forthcoming with information...

   Agree.  I've made money on all the condos I have sold.  If you are going to be here for a few years buying can be an option.  I would check how much is in the sinking fund--the fund set aside to maintain the condo project.  Try to get as much information as you can from the Juristic and possibly some owners, as well.

    Check closely the condo you are considering buying but also check the condo project.  How are things being maintained?  How does the gym look?  Equipment in good shape? Do the same with the pool, the elevators, the lobby, the grounds, the parking garage, sky lounge, etc.  With a condo built in 2012, you should be able to get a good idea of how things are being maintained.  Good luck.

[Max69xl]

On 7/19/2020 at 5:36 AM, bkknovice said:

Thanks. I just read there is a repair fund fee to be collected like 500 baht per sqm of the condo you own. I wonder how often they collect this fee, and who decides when a building needs major general repairs? These repairs can cost a lot in my home country so I'd like to know how it's done in Thailand so there aren't nasty surprises...

In my condo building you pay the maintenance fee either twice a year, June and December, or once a year, in December. Many condo owners are not even here at the moment and wasn't even here a lot last year,that means condo management doesn't get a lot of money to maintain this and that. When the owners eventually shows up,they have to pay a fee for being late paying the last maintenance fee, but the fee isn't that big. On top of that, they are not smart enough to save some money from last year to fix things this year. Go figure. 

[Oztruckie]

Prior to purchasing a condo check the floor and wall tiles to see how the tiles have been laid,important for them to have a gap,i know of 2 condo buildings here in pattaya where the tiles have lifted,due to no gap for expansion,one particular building they had to retile complete floors,i knew the guy who lived in this particular condo, he owned 3 units,both these buildings were around about 10 years old.

[tpkhk]

 

On 7/19/2020 at 5:36 AM, bkknovice said:

Thanks. I just read there is a repair fund fee to be collected like 500 baht per sqm of the condo you own. I wonder how often they collect this fee, and who decides when a building needs major general repairs? These repairs can cost a lot in my home country so I'd like to know how it's done in Thailand so there aren't nasty surprises...

 

OP - Typically, these major projects, which cannot be covered by the sinking fund are voted upon by all owners in the Annual General Meeting.

 

Management Company (Typically a hired outside firm)

Juristic Committee (made up of the owners)

Accountant & Auditor - The accountant keeps the books, and they need to be certified by an outside auditor.

Independent lawyer to advise the committee to make sure everything is in compliance with the condo act - eg. AGM cannot be held without say xx% of the owners/proxy holders being present.  They have further thresholds (33%?) to meet to approve a one time levies, ie to cover major expenses.  If passed, these are allocated based on the square footage of your unit.

 

Some buildings barely collect enough to properly maintain the building (poorly run & falling apart)…. others have a lot of difficulty getting special levies approved (postponing the inevitable).  Of course, there are likely buildings where there is a lot of fat...  ie. a bid on a major project can range from 2-6M baht, so a lot of room for playing.

 

As to the building you want to buy in, Check / see as to who the Management co. is.  If it is one of the bigger MNC names that would be a decent sign (eg. Savills, CBRE etc).  If it is a Thai firm, then find out which other buildings they manage...you may get an idea of the standard.  Some buildings are so difficult, management cos end up dropping them.

 

Look into the makeup of the Owner's Association - if it has a good mix of Thai/foreigners, likely to be biased in favor taking the building management to task.  

 

If you can find out what major improvement projects have been completed in the building and which ones are pending - that would be helpful.  The management co. will have stats like owner occupied units, occupancy level etc.

 

Do you have an agent - if yes, they usually know people in the juristic office that may share info easily.  The problem is whether the agent is giving you the real story.  Ask the agent if they've sold/rented out any other units in the building and see if you can get an intro.  

 

The good thing about a 10-12 year old building - most of the developer related issues would have been found/fixed in the first 4-5 years.  Should be settled.  If the internal pipes were metal, you can expect a change to PVC to be pending - both the mainlines in the building and in your unit.  Not the end of the world, but could be a bit disruptive while it gets done.

 

If the internet is important ask about that.  Some buildings are stuck with a certain ISP / Fibre is not possible.

 

As a foreigner, make sure the foreign quota is available, and that you can register it under your name (freehold).

 

Good luck - they say a lot of the money you make on a real estate purchase will be when you buy.  It should be a buyers market.  Have a look at Prakard.com for your building (mostly Thai, but use a translator extension).

[Airalee]

5 hours ago, Darksidedude said:

i have brought and sold a few condos over the years, i have never lost money when i have sold them never made much money either BUT i lived for years not having to pay rent.

 

Paying rent is dead money end of story, same as with anywhere else in the world.

Rent isn’t necessarily “dead money”.  It all depends on the P/E ratio and opportunity costs.  I can find ฿12-14,000,000 units renting for ฿30–35,000 all day long.  You’d have to be a financial illiterate to buy one of those units.

[luckyluke]

17 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I can find ฿12-14,000,000 units renting for ฿30–35,000 all day long.

I wish I could here in Thonglor.

[YT3k72Em]

My place is about 11 years old now. This year they are repainting the building, extra fee for that was about the same as 1 year's condo fee. Other common issues are water leaks from above, or smelly drains and corridors, aircons leaking or dying. Some things starting to wear out like taps, lose or leaking and toilet valves needing replacing. I've lived in my place continuously so wear and tear is from daily use.

In the common areas they are building some ramps to the pool and gardens where there had only been stairs before (took 11 years to get it). Gardens are pretty well maintained.

Carpark has a selection of fancy cars, mid-range cars, and abandoned cars covered in dust. Same with the motorcycle area.

Some rooms have never been occupied since the building was built. No problem, empty rooms are quiet neighbours.

Cockroaches starting to be prevalent despite 3-monthly spraying.

The swimming pool only lasted about 6 years before it needed to be completely re-tiled.

Recently they decided to "update" the electrics.  The whole building was without power for an entire Sunday, 9am-5pm. 

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

I wish I could here in Thonglor.

You’re not looking hard enough.  Ashton morph 38.  Waterford park 53.  Took me 2 minutes to find on hipflat.  Thonglor is terrible for P/E (Price/rent) ratios. Join the Facebook groups and you’ll find even cheaper rents than the sites agents use.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Airalee