Submarine row threatens to become political time bomb

[snoop1130]

Submarine row threatens to become political time bomb

 

The Royal Thai Navy held a press conference on Monday to defend the submarine deal. (Photo from Thai Royal Navy)

 

Debate on whether Thailand needs submarines is raging again after a House subcommittee on budget scrutiny last Friday voted 5-4 along party lines to back the Navy’s Bt22.5-billion plan to buy two more China-made subs.

 

That was in addition to the Yuan Class S26T submarine the Royal Thai Navy ordered from China in 2017 for Bt13.5 billion, to be delivered in 2024. Altogether, the three submarines will cost Bt36 billion.

 

Approved by General Prayut Chan-o-cha’s post-coup government in April 2017, the deal for the subs triggered public anger over Navy and military shopping sprees for expensive hardware.

 

Now, flak is also being directed at the government for allowing the splurge on costly war weapons at a time when the economy is mired in the COVID-19 crisis.

 

With opposition to the submarine deal growing, the issue threatens to become a political time bomb for Prayut’s government.

 

The hot potato has been tossed to the House of Representatives’ 72-member committee tasked with scrutinizing the budget bill for fiscal 2021. The panel on Wednesday postponed its debate on the subs’ purchase until Friday (August 28) to hear additional testimony from the Navy. Its vote on whether to approve the budget is expected next Monday (August 31), according to a source.

 

The postponement – described by opposition politicians as a delay tactic – came after seven panel members from the coalition Democrat Party decided not to support the submarine purchase plan.

 

The Cabinet and coalition parties enjoy a healthy majority on the panel of 48 members to the opposition’s 24.

 

With the meeting put off and further lobbying likely, the government seems unlikely to back down over the submarine purchase. Some observers view this as a risky move, which will hand momentum to its detractors and anti-government protesters. It will provide the protesters with more ammunition against the government at their next rally.

 

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha, who doubles as defence minister, has shown no eagerness to defuse the political time bomb. On Wednesday he remained firm that submarines are needed to protect the country’s marine resources.

 

“[Submarines] are not meant for combat with any country. They are a strategic weapon to protect sovereignty,” he said, adding that, “everybody will be held responsible for the consequences” of failure to procure the “strategic weapon”.

 

Submarines are ‘low priority’

  

Critics question whether billions should be spent on military hardware at a time when money is urgently needed to solve economic problems wrought by coronavirus.

 

Although COVID-19 has been largely contained in the country, the fallout includes rising unemployment and shrinking revenues from exports and tourism – the country’s two main money spinners.

 

Thai netizens are now engaged in furious debate over whether the country needs subs at this time of economic crisis. The hashtag “#CitizensDoNotWantSubmarines” began trending on Thai Twitter earlier this week.

 

Former finance minister Korn Chatikavanij, who now leads the Kla Party, views submarines as “unnecessary” at a time when economic crisis has seen gross domestic product drop as much as 12 per cent from last year.

 

“I understand there are needs over security. But at this moment, the government should spend the money it has in hand on helping people who are suffering the worst, including small businesses and vendors,” his Facebook post read on Sunday (August 23).

 

Korn said the money earmarked for the two additional submarines was enough to give a subsidy of Bt100,000 each to more than 200,000 small-businesses.

 

Seeking to defend the deal, the Navy held a press conference on Monday. Acquisition of the three subs was part of a strategy to protect the Kingdom’s marine interests estimated at Bt24 trillion a year, it said.

 

Thailand used to have a fleet of four submarines – all built in Japan – but these were decommissioned in 1951, according to the Navy.

 

Naval Comptroller-General Vice Admiral Tirakul Kanchana told the press that the two additional submarines were included in the deal to buy the first one, and were not a new procurement. Thailand is paying Bt13.5 billion in instalments between 2017 and 2023 for the first sub. The Bt22.5-billion payment for two more subs will be divided into seven annual instalments of Bt2.5 billion to Bt3.5 billion, using the Navy’s regular annual budget, not extra funds, he said.

 

Murky deal? 

 

A Navy spokesman also slammed opposition Pheu Thai MP Yutthapong Charassathien for alleging that the Navy’s submarine procurement contract was not a genuine government-to-government deal. Deputy chief-of-staff Vice Admiral Prachachat Sirisawat said the politician’s claim was untrue and politically motivated. He accused the MP of distorting facts, causing division and creating hatred toward the military.

 

“The Navy’s G-to-G purchase was done transparently. It’s the G-to-G rice deal done by Pheu Thai that was fake,” the Navy spokesman said.

 

He was referring to bogus government-to-government rice export deals supposedly with China, which led to lengthy jail terms for two Cabinet members of Yingluck Shinawatra’s Pheu Thai-led government.

 

Responding to the press conference, PM Prayut said on Tuesday that “the Navy has its reason and necessity” in buying submarines.

 

He called on the House budget scrutiny committee to “ensure fairness” when considering the Navy’s budget proposal.

 

In July last year, the PM implied that one submarine was insufficient for naval missions. “Do you think buying only one sub is enough? What if it needs repair or maintenance?” he said.

 

Military’s Bt196-billion bill

 

The armed forces have requested a combined budget of Bt196 billion for fiscal 2021, slightly less than the Bt204 billion taken this year.

 

Of that total, Bt48.2 billion has been set aside for the Navy, Bt107.6 billion for the Army, and Bt40.1 billion for the Air Force.

 

A large part of the Navy’s budget is earmarked to purchase the two submarines, with another Bt900 million to build a submarine port.

 

The Army’s shopping list for the next fiscal year includes 50 Stryker armoured vehicles at a price of Bt4.5 billion, 155mm howitzers at Bt2 billion, 105mm howitzers at Bt900 million, aircraft worth Bt1.3 billion, and VT-4 tanks with a price tag of Bt1.6 billion.

 

The Air Force plans to buy 12 trainer aircraft worth Bt5.2 billion and two T-50 trainer jets costing Bt2.4 billion.

 

Source: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/submarine-row-threatens-to-become-political-time-bomb/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2020-08-27

 

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[Thaiwrath]

1 hour ago, snoop1130 said:

With opposition to the submarine deal growing, the issue threatens to become a political time bomb for Prayut’s government.

There is hope !

I do hope this farce sees his downfall, and departure from politics, once and for all.

Edited August 27, 2020 by metisdead
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording.

[Mavideol]

“[Submarines] are not meant for combat with any country. They are a strategic weapon to protect sovereignty,”

 

 

 

and he wonders why the people want him out.... sh...ty decisions, unnecessary spending under the pretext of preserving/ protecting sovereignty ... a non sense excuse like that makes me wonder how much is inside the envelope

[ThailandRyan]

Time for transparency on the part of the government overseeing the sub procurement so that the entire issue can be seen by the public as well as the rest of the house and senate here.  Looks like a nuclear bomb is about to go off, and that bomb is named Prayut.  He stated in another interview that the country will be in flames.  looks like he is willing to burn the whole place down in a temper tantrum.

Edited August 27, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[mark131v]

14 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

Of that total, Bt48.2 billion has been set aside for the Navy, Bt107.6 billion for the Army, and Bt40.1 billion for the Air Force.

 

A large part of the Navy’s budget is earmarked to purchase the two submarines, with another Bt900 million to build a submarine port.

 

The Army’s shopping list for the next fiscal year includes 50 Stryker armoured vehicles at a price of Bt4.5 billion, 155mm howitzers at Bt2 billion, 105mm howitzers at Bt900 million, aircraft worth Bt1.3 billion, and VT-4 tanks with a price tag of Bt1.6 billion.

 

The Air Force plans to buy 12 trainer aircraft worth Bt5.2 billion and two T-50 trainer jets costing Bt2.4 billion.

Boys and their toys eh!!!

 

I suppose it will be a benefit for the CCP if they ever decide to push south cannot imagine the world renowned warrior race that is Thailand getting many destroyed before they capitulate....

[Justgrazing]

9 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

“[Submarines] are not meant for combat with any country. They are a strategic weapon to protect sovereignty,”

Yea right .. 

 

11 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

 

“The Navy’s G-to-G purchase was done transparently. It’s the G-to-G rice deal done by Pheu Thai that was fake

Ooh very cat scratch .. are they using rice as ballast or something or is that a bit of deflection .. 

 

16 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

 

Thailand used to have a fleet of four submarines – all built in Japan – but these were decommissioned in 1951

Sshhh .. 

 

17 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

Do you think buying only one sub is enough? What if it needs repair or maintenance?”

Not worry .. if everyone's got their lucky sub' charms on things should be fine .. hopefully .. fingers crossed .. 

 

[steven100]

27 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

“The Navy’s G-to-G purchase was done transparently. It’s the G-to-G rice deal done by Pheu Thai that was fake,” the Navy spokesman said.

 

He was referring to bogus government-to-government rice export deals supposedly with China, which led to lengthy jail terms for two Cabinet members of Yingluck Shinawatra’s Pheu Thai-led government.

well we can't argue with you on that one ...

[tifino]

well the vip Jet was received, and the navy wants to one up them, in the prestige stakes...

[Thailand]

How do you sink an aged Chinese submarine?

 

Put it in water! 

[Grumpy John]

'"Do you think buying only one sub is enough? What if it needs repair or maintenance?”'  Not what......when!  

[poskat]

I am not sure if the government could have come up with anything that better exemplifies how out of touch they are with the thai people and the current economic pain felt by so many.

 

and clearly without any thought about how it would be perceived by the public, or how to best spend funds at the present time

 

its essentially a big <deleted> to the thai people from their government

[Flying Saucage]

Not possible to cancel the deal anymore, as Thailands sovereignty is sold to China already. China needs the Thai dept there to control the country, and China needs these submarines under Thai flag, to join China in the South China Sea in order to boost the legitimacy of their evil activities there on the world stage.

[meechai]

5 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Submarine row threatens to become political time bomb

 

Time Bomb has been in place awhile now & TPTB for now know their time is short.

 

As such & as usual they will now make as many padded purchases as possible to  line their loot chests till the next round.

Which interestingly enough will the the 13th in Thailand's history & hopefully very bad luck

[sammieuk1]

To top it all the stupid subs are Chinese you know the the country that gave you the disease that wrecked your economy you raving fools ????  

[yellowboat]

Subs were a really bad idea when things good.  Now they are an example of government waste. 

[american2]

Thailands need for Submarines only slightly outweighs the countries need for a Space Program.

[Scott]

Politically unacceptable post and link removed along with replies.  

 

[Hayduke]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Submarine row threatens to become political time bomb

 

Cancel the submarines?

 

That would mean massive loss of face for the Hero-General… and China would demand the hundreds of millions of Baht in motivational backhanders and “pre-purchase’ commissions be returned.

 

Sorry...it's not going to happen.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Hayduke

[Cisco]

Maybe they’d settle for another blimp?

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1324367/military-finally-dumps-b350m-airship

[whaleboneman]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“everybody will be held responsible for the consequences” of failure to procure the “strategic weapon”.

And no one will be held accountable for procurement. It's a no-brainer.

[Emdog]

Should have said "Sub deal may torpedo government" rather than saying "time bomb"

Ever wonder what beyond insanity looks like? Now you know

[grumbleweed]

Hate to disagree with you all, but submarines are a must if they are serious about...

 

Reducing road deaths

Improving the infrastructure

Provide decent health care

Improve the education system to a level beyond that of international joke

[hotchilli]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Thai netizens are now engaged in furious debate over whether the country needs subs at this time of economic crisis. The hashtag “#CitizensDoNotWantSubmarines” began trending on Thai Twitter earlier this week.

The debate should be about: do we need Prayut?

maybe start a #do we need Prayut & Co

[Srikcir]

A bit of irony the former junta coup chief worried about protecting the county's soverneignty. 

[mikesil]

I do hope that people will come to realize the underlying wisdom of buying additional submarines. They are badly needed.

 

Restrictions are about to be lifted on tourists entering from all over the world.  There will be folks running all over the country, spreading the disease from the US, Brazil, Russia, Europe, and other places now battling millions of Covid cases.  Obviously, the government plans to issue a new submarine to every family for purposes of self-isolation.

 

Our neighbourhood has no water nearby and has a lot of vehicular traffic.  I hope I can order one with wheels and a horn.

[Grusa]

There was a time when Thailands' military might was achieved with the then preeminent war machines:- Elephants.

 

Now it is to be re-established with.......White Elephants!

[SABloke]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“Do you think buying only one sub is enough? What if it needs repair or maintenance?” he said.

You do what you've been doing for the past 69 years - operate without a submarine for a while ????

 

[steven100]

should have bought more tanks instead,  thailand really is a dangerous place and needs to defend itself from all borders  ...  lol

[scammed]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“[Submarines] are not meant for combat with any country. They are a strategic weapon to protect sovereignty,” he said, adding that, “everybody will be held responsible for the consequences” of failure to procure the “strategic weapon”.

pardon me but that is factually wrong, unless the subs carry long range ballistic missiles.

strategic by definition means strategic reach, as in intercontinental reach

Edited August 28, 2020 by scammed

[LoS itaint]

17 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Yea right .. 

 

Ooh very cat scratch .. are they using rice as ballast or something or is that a bit of deflection .. 

 

Sshhh .. 

 

Not worry .. if everyone's got their lucky sub' charms on things should be fine .. hopefully .. fingers crossed .. 

 

They could always visit Subway & buy a 12 inch one!