New CDC report shows 94% of COVID-19 deaths in US had underlying medical conditions

[rumak]

10 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Not at that particular moment. But the comorbidities would've eventually caught up.

thank you for a new (to me)  vocabulary word .   (no sarcasm)

 

now i can answer the  " do you know how many people are gonna die from Covid?"  questions with

"it's the comorbidities ,  man ! "

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by rumak

[Yellowtail]

On 9/2/2020 at 9:47 AM, Tagged said:

If you die of suicide after have shot yourselves in the head, after You just got the message from Your dr, you have cancer. Outcome unknown, but a fair chance, you would die sooner or later by cancer, but it ca take months to years, before it will finely end your life.  You decide to put the gun to your head and pull the trigger. The question is, did you die because of suicide, a bullit to your brain, or did you die of cancer? 

 

If he hadn't had cancer he would still be alive 

[checkered flag]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

If he hadn't had cancer he would still be alive 

If he hadn't been suicidal he wouldn't have killed himself.

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

If he hadn't had cancer he would still be alive 

Jepp, you are right maybe. 

 

But he could have been suicidal from before, same as those who kill themselves because of lock down these days, and their lives goes to deleted

[EbhB]

Been waiting for this, but thought it might happen in a year or two...........

 

Something about lies, damned lies & statistics - and in 2020 statistics based on "data" - why does this remind me of the Eastern block towards the end of the eighties???

[mommysboy]

On 8/31/2020 at 11:55 PM, geriatrickid said:

It is rather telling when some people jump on a transparent  statement of fact and twist it out of context.

Comorbidity is a common characteristic in patient death. In plain language,  death is a culmination of multiple conditions that cause the human body to crash. This is nothing new or unique.  For example, in patients with heart disease patients will succumb to pneumonia because their lungs fill with fluid, or edema of the heart, or  multiple organ failure as their organs  are starved of oxygen. There isn't a disease in the world that doesn't have knock on damage. One of the leading causes of death of children is GI infection. The infection doesn't kill the patient directly. Rather the dehydration crashes the  vital organs and the patient then dies.

 

 Covid19 is an inflammatory disease. Patients who already have  pre-existing damage are more likely to succumb once the additional damage caused by the Covid19 takes hold. Those who claim that Covid 19 isn't dangerous because of the recent statement do not understand how a disease kills a person. 

 

No. you just do not understand. The patients would not have died when they did had they not been infected with the SARS Cov19  virus.  Covid19 is the condition that ensued subsequent to the infection.  It is not making the international news for the simple reason that this is nothing new and not already known.  You and others who have a political agenda are taking the statement out of context for your political  goal. 

 

I partly agree with this posting, but I think we do have have to distinguish between (a.) a killer disease that kills healthy people, and (b.) one that finishes off unfortunates who are not so healthy.

 

Clearly, the policy objective ought to be to protect the old and vulnerable and nothing more. Most countries got their strategy horribly wrong, which to some extent is understandable because they were fighting in the dark.  Nevertheless, governments which still operate blanket measures, or fail to protect the vulnerable really need taking to a criminal court.

 

 

[seajae]

problem was there were cases where people died in auto/bike accidents etc and if they had covid the deaths were listed as covid deaths or so the  claims by family members that were made. Have to wonder how many of the deaths claimed as covid deaths were actually because of covid and not because of other factors, yes covid does cause problems but was it the reason they died, this is what they need to explain. This really does bring US deaths back to a more realistic amount compared to other countries, the fact that a covid death meant more money may also have been a factor but again we will never know, unfortunately they have not stated what the actual cause of death was only that there were other factors involved, they need to clear it up, was it because of covid or something else, this is what the people need to know

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Tagged said:

Jepp, you are right maybe. 

 

But he could have been suicidal from before, same as those who kill themselves because of lock down these days, and their lives goes to deleted

 

That's why it's a poor analogy. A better one might be: An 80 year old three-pack-a-day smoker with lung-cancer is given chemotherapy which compromises his immune system. He get's coved and a month later he is dead. Did the covid kill him?

 

I say no, and I assume you would answer yes.

 

I would also assume if he died of cancer, you would argue cigarettes killed him. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Maestro]

EXCESS DEATHS SHOW THE TRUE IMPACT OF COVID-19 IN THE U.S.

Epidemiologist Justin Lessler unpacks a recent CDC report on comorbidities and coronavirus deaths that is being misinterpreted on social media

Katie Pearce / Published 2 days ago

 

Since COVID-19 first began circulating within the United States, public health officials have known that those with underlying medical conditions face higher risks for severe illness and death if they contract the disease. A recent report from the CDC appears to drill down that point with striking numbers, showing that 94% of U.S. deaths involving COVID-19 since February were also associated with other conditions, or comorbidities.

 

According to the CDC: "For 6% of [coronavirus disease 2019] deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups."

 

The most common comorbidities, according to death records, include influenza and pneumonia, respiratory failure, hypertension, diabetes, and cardiac arrest.

 

Read full article: https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/09/01/comorbidities-and-coronavirus-deaths-cdc/

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

That's why it's a poor analogy. A better one might be: An 80 year old three-pack-a-day smoker with lung-cancer is given chemotherapy which compromises his immune system. He get's coved and a month later he is dead. Did the covid kill him?

 

I say no, and I assume you would answer yes.

 

I would also assume if he died of cancer, you would argue cigarettes killed him. 

Dead is dead so it's a bit of a moot point, I think the actual question that should be asked is "how much time did covid take away from the remaining life". If it's months or even just a couple of years, is that really worth destroying economies?

 

Even when ships sink, it's women and children first, for the obvious reason: They got more years ahead or can produce more people to replace the dead.

Edited September 3, 2020 by DrTuner

[rvaviator]

On 9/1/2020 at 3:02 AM, oompie69 said:

Covid-19 as a contributing factor cause of death is not in dispute at all. Could just as well have been normal seasonal flu that was the final nail in the coffin, or pneumonia. So, yes it is old news.

What is vitally important about this information,however, and what is not old news, is that it serves to highlight which sections of the population should have been targeted for protection much earlier on.  And where financial and human assets should have been employed.

 And even more importantly, how information was used by people the public trusted to manipulate public opinion. And remember, these are all "experts" of one kind or the other.

This begs the question: Would the American people have accepted the restrictions on their freedoms if they

had this information from the start?. And will the continue to accept them? 

The short answer is probably no in general ... Just look at the average American, do you see  tower of health and fitness?  (same goes for many other western countries) ...

 

 

 

Probably not the best position to be in when you try and fight C-19

[Mark Nothing]

On 9/1/2020 at 4:47 AM, rumak said:

 

 

This CDC report makes it clear that the coordinated worldwide lockdowns, restricted travel, and businesses ordered closed was a collossal loss of freedoms for citizens. 

 

A unique tactic was used to implement severe restrictions on our freedoms, under the disguise of protecting the people and their health and well being.

 

For those afraid of their own shadow, please snap out of your stupor and realize the information being reported is less believable than a children's fairy tale.

[scammed]

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The economic destruction was a direct  effect of the pandemic.

no, the economic destruction is a direct result of the lockdown, if anything, a higher death rate of 80+ seniors

is taxing society less

[Tagged]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

That's why it's a poor analogy. A better one might be: An 80 year old three-pack-a-day smoker with lung-cancer is given chemotherapy which compromises his immune system. He get's coved and a month later he is dead. Did the covid kill him?

 

I say no, and I assume you would answer yes.

 

I would also assume if he died of cancer, you would argue cigarettes killed him. 

 

 

 

 

 

I would say age killed him!

 

an high percentage of the forum members, is above 60, and many struggle with healt issues, and I have met some on my way around thailand laltely, and guess what, they all brag about how <deleted> up this covid is, and it is a conspiracy or a big hoax. Well, them about that, I believe Im healthy but we really do not know before we have to face it I guess, and Im only 52 and in good shape, so whey should I worry? 

[2 is 1]

On 9/1/2020 at 2:47 AM, RichardColeman said:

1.3 million people die on the roads in the world each year - covid will kill about 1.2 million in a year.

 

If anyone can provide me with evidence of any country that has banned road driving, banned pedestrians walking near roads or asked everyone on or near the roads to wear a set if armor just in case I would very much appreciate it.

So ban toilet, walk on street, smoke, alcohol, electric, weather, all guns..... list can continue ! Ban all what can kill you! Covid is covid and "they" have deside how to haddle and that is that! Not help to compare to anything else coz that don't make any sense!

Edited September 3, 2020 by 2 is 1

[geriatrickid]

9 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

Hahahahahahaha, most stupid statement of the day so far. Two stars.

 

I don't really like to comment on all the nonsense you post, because 90%  is always completely wrong, but this can't go without challenge.

 

If that were so, you would have no trouble to post documented evidence which proves the causal link between mask wearing and reduced US infection numbers? Can you do so?

 

"Prove your claim" you ask. Can you prove yours?

Anyone who disagrees with your extreme right wing  views is called stupid. The last time you time you alleged that I had  given an erroneous statement you were shown to have fabricated your 'fact".

 

1. Start with the impact of a face mask.  They work. And when people wear them, the rate of infection is blunted,  the spread of infection is contained and  new cases  start to  decrease. 

 

i. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wearing-a-mask-to-halt-the-spread-of-coronavirus-has-a-big-impact-on-us-economic-growthand-goldman-has-done-the-math-2020-06-30   

A team of economists lead by Jan Hatzius, chief economist at Goldman, makes the case that a national face-mask mandate could partially substitute for renewed lockdowns, as COVID-19 inflections flare up in a number of southern and western states in the U.S., that would “otherwise subtract 5% from gross domestic product.”

 

ii.  https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0714-americans-to-wear-masks.html

In an editorial published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), CDC reviewed the latest science and affirms that cloth face coverings are a critical tool in the fight against COVID-19 that could reduce the spread of the disease, particularly when used universally within communities. There is increasing evidence that cloth face coverings help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.

 

Additional data in today’s MMWR showed that immediately after the White House Coronavirus Task Force and CDC advised Americans to wear cloth face coverings when leaving home, the proportion of U.S. adults who chose to do so increased, with 3 in 4 reporting they had adopted the recommendation in a national internet survey.

 

iii.   https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818  The study provides direct evidence on the effectiveness of widespread community use of face masks from a natural experiment that evaluated the effects of state government mandates in the US for face mask use in public on COVID-19 spread. Fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., mandated face mask use between April 8 and May 15. Using an event study that examined daily changes in county-level COVID-19 growth rates, the study found that mandating public use of face masks was associated with a reduction in the COVID-19 daily growth rate.

 

iv. https://www.wsj.com/articles/face-masks-really-do-matter-the-scientific-evidence-is-growing-11595083298

 

 

2. The use of facemasks in the USA  today is significanly higher than what it was in May and   June. After the surge in cases in June, the USa and its states  moved to increased mask wearing. Prior to July, there were few mandates to wear masks. Now there are.  Here's a map showing  who was wearing a mask in the USA. The use of masks  is indeed a factor in the infection rates of the  cities and states implicated.   https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/17/upshot/coronavirus-face-mask-map.html

 

According to you, the  public health consensus is wrong. All the scientists have it wrong. However, you, an uneducated man with no work experience in public health and no knowledge of infectious disease have it right.  Good for you. Scream at  the world. We all have it wrong.  What's next from you? An argument that we should burn  the medical  journals and books that have  the  position that is contrary to yours?

 

My comment was made in respect to  the lie that Dr. Fauci  stands to profit from corona virus vaccines. He has no stake in such vaccines. Nor does he have  a "patent" on the Corona Virus. Your refusal to repudiate  such a claim is tantamount to supporting it.

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by geriatrickid

[Yellowtail]

56 minutes ago, Tagged said:

I would say age killed him!

 

an high percentage of the forum members, is above 60, and many struggle with healt issues, and I have met some on my way around thailand laltely, and guess what, they all brag about how <deleted> up this covid is, and it is a conspiracy or a big hoax. Well, them about that, I believe Im healthy but we really do not know before we have to face it I guess, and Im only 52 and in good shape, so whey should I worry? 

So you would also say that the ~30% of covid deaths in the US (people over 85) died of old age and not of covid, yes?

[rumak]

51 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Im only 52 and in good shape, so whey should I worry? 

ahhhh,   those were the days.    i went to the playground with the mrs today..... one of the guys saw me take a shot (basketball)  and wanted me to play 2 on 2.     he was maybe 45 or so.   

 

damn i must look good.   little does he know what a 70 year old body feels like .  i politely declined.

keep in shape  tgd     the content ones here mostly agree it makes a big difference

 

[rumak]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

So you would also say that the ~30% of covid deaths in the US (people over 85) died of old age and not of covid, yes?

Tom Seaver died today.   A great athlete in his time.   Was "only" 75 years old.  Had a number of major health issues the last few years .   Among those listed just recently was Covid.     You can read about it and decide if it was Covid that killed him.  

[Tagged]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So you would also say that the ~30% of covid deaths in the US (people over 85) died of old age and not of covid, yes?

Covid is a great accelarator to get that the heritage faster. Some will say thats great to. 

[johnray]

I agree with The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Those patients had underlying conditions.

[Yellowtail]

44 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Covid is a great accelarator to get that the heritage faster. Some will say thats great to. 

That's what I thought, thanks.

[Sheryl]

The headline and the Fox report seriously distort what the CDC data actually says.

 

It simply reports what was listed on the death certificate. It is quite common when listing cause of death to list a complication as well as the underlying cause of it, e.g. respiratory failure and COVID-19, or  respiratory arrest and COVID-19,  or pneumonia and COVID-19, meaning the person died of respiratory failure/respiratory arrest  or pneumonia due to COVID-19. And if you look at the chart of the "co-morbidities" listed, pneumonia and respiratory failure are indeed the most common ones.

 

There is a general lack of uniformity in how doctors fill out causes of death, some being more thorough than others.

 

For example, a  single death certificate for someone who died solely due to COVID could well list:

 

Cardiac arrest

Cardiac arrythmia

respiratory failure

pneumonia

COVID-19

 

Because COVID led to pneumonia, which led to respiratory failure, which invariably causes arrythmias which in turn led  to cardiac arrest.Or it could also just say COVID.  Or any mix of these. Same difference. But most death certificates will list more than just COVID even if the person was in perfect health prior, because that is how death certificates are filled out: if the doctor is al all thorough, both the underlying cause (COVID) and the ensuing complications from it will be listed.

 

This is not multiple different diseases, it is  the path of one disease and the various complications it caused which led to death.

 

There is no way of telling from this data what percentage of people had other underlying diseases prior to getting COVID which contributed to their death from COVID, since though such things are also listed (e.g. hypertension, diabetes) the same patient will also have had more than one. But from the numbers it certainly does not look like it could have been anywhere near 90%.  Rather they seem to be using the co-listing of things like cardiac arrythmia, respiratory or cardiac arrest, respiratory failure, pneumonia  etc -- all part of the process by which COVID can cause death --  to try to make a hiughly misleading claim about COVID deaths.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The CDC's data is basically correct. But it's been intentionally misrepresented by the Trump "we love the virus" types and sadly, by the president himself and his cohorts.

 

Basically, most all those people in the statistics DID die of CV... That was what the doctors considered the main/principal cause of their death. But on their death certificates, many also had other contributing factors listed... which is a normal thing for the way death certificates are handled in the U.S.

 

So yes, large numbers of those who have died from the CV have been more vulnerable to it because of various contributing conditions, like advanced age, various other medical conditions, etc. But that's a whole different thing from some people claiming all those CV deaths weren't really due to CV, which is false.

 

Quote

 

Fauci debunks theories of low CDC coronavirus death toll: ‘There are 180,000-plus deaths’ in U.S.

 

White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci debunked online theories promoted by President Donald Trump that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has changed its guidance for tallying coronavirus deaths, showing a fraction of total Covid-19 fatalities. 

 

On Sunday, Twitter removed a post retweeted by Trump that claimed the CDC had “quietly” updated its guidance to indicate only 6% of the country’s coronavirus death toll — roughly 9,000 deaths —  was actually caused by the virus, according to a CNN report. The tweet said the remaining 94% had “other serious illnesses.” 

 

Fauci told the ABC program “Good Morning America” on Tuesday that the CDC guidance, last updated on Aug. 26, indicates that of the people who have died from the virus, “a certain percentage of them had nothing else but just Covid.” However, people with underlying illnesses also die from Covid-19, he said.

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/01/fauci-debunks-theories-of-low-cdc-coronavirus-death-toll-there-are-180000-plus-deaths-in-us.html

Edited September 3, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And further from ABC News:

 

Quote

 

A spokesperson for the mortality branch of the National Center for Health Statistics, which is part of the CDC, told ABC News that death certificates typically list any causes or conditions that contributed to mortality.

...

The NCHS defines "underlying cause of death" as "the condition that began the chain of events that ultimately led to the person’s death."

 

According to the NCHS, in 92% of all deaths that mention COVID-19, COVID-19 is listed as the underlying cause of death. There were 161,392 such death certificates as of Aug. 22, the NCHS found. On 94% of death certificates that mention COVID-19, an additional condition is also listed, such as diabetes, hypertension, pneumonia or respiratory failure.

 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-death-report-fauci/story?id=72759172

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Starmocihc]

Well, duh. Who hadn't figured that out by the 2nd month? ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, seajae said:

unfortunately they have not stated what the actual cause of death was only that there were other factors involved, they need to clear it up, was it because of covid or something else, this is what the people need to know

 

If you read the above posted information on this, you'll see that doctors are supposed to list, and the CDC stats do show, the main cause of death as the "underlying cause," with the definition of that mentioned above...

 

All the other causes other than the "underlying cause" are considered to be additional or contributing factors present in the deceased.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 9/2/2020 at 7:48 PM, Logosone said:

People get sick, get old and they die.

 

People do get old, get sick and die... That's part of human life that ultimately happens to everyone.

 

But it's a whole different matter when some folks start advocating against taking simple and easily accomplished interventions like social distancing and universal mask wear that would/could prevent many of those CV deaths.

 

Yes, people are going to die... But they shouldn't be dying simply because those around them are too selfish or ignorant to take the precautions widely recommended by health professions that would otherwise have protected them...

 

That, in my book, is simply a crime against humanity, not fate.

 

[utalkin2me]

55 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The headline and the Fox report seriously distort what the CDC data actually says.

 

It simply reports what was listed on the death certificate. It is quite common when listing cause of death to list a complication as well as the underlying cause of it, e.g. respiratory failure and COVID-19, or  respiratory arrest and COVID-19,  or pneumonia and COVID-19, meaning the person died of respiratory failure/respiratory arrest  or pneumonia due to COVID-19. And if you look at the chart of the "co-morbidities" listed, pneumonia and respiratory failure are indeed the most common ones.

 

There is a general lack of uniformity in how doctors fill out causes of death, some being more thorough than others.

 

For example, a  single death certificate for someone who died solely due to COVID could well list:

 

Cardiac arrest

Cardiac arrythmia

respiratory failure

pneumonia

COVID-19

 

Because COVID led to pneumonia, which led to respiratory failure, which invariably causes arrythmias which in turn led  to cardiac arrest.Or it could also just say COVID.  Or any mix of these. Same difference. But most death certificates will list more than just COVID even if the person was in perfect health prior, because that is how death certificates are filled out: if the doctor is al all thorough, both the underlying cause (COVID) and the ensuing complications from it will be listed.

 

This is not multiple different diseases, it is  the path of one disease and the various complications it caused which led to death.

 

There is no way of telling from this data what percentage of people had other underlying diseases prior to getting COVID which contributed to their death from COVID, since though such things are also listed (e.g. hypertension, diabetes) the same patient will also have had more than one. But from the numbers it certainly does not look like it could have been anywhere near 90%.  Rather they seem to be using the co-listing of things like cardiac arrythmia, respiratory or cardiac arrest, respiratory failure, pneumonia  etc -- all part of the process by which COVID can cause death --  to try to make a hiughly misleading claim about COVID deaths.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The people I think are very, very wise (actually not too wise, just wise relative to their peers when it comes to covid) always talk about "excess deaths". So, this is actually a way we can understand how many people have died of covid. Excess death numbers tend to be much less alarming than the numbers the world are shown ticking up every day. 

[utalkin2me]

I think a lot of people who think the lockdowns were a good move have assumed lockdowns do not cause any harm. 

 

Sure, if nothing bad happened from locking everything down, this was the greatest decision ever. 

 

Tragically, the numbers are going to start trickling in about things like depression, suicide, domestic violence, social disorders and schooling setbacks. Those are just a few! What about all the cancer that is not being diagnosed right now? 

 

If you just take ONE of these things at random, like the lack of cancer diagnosis, we can argue lockdown results are wiped out already. But if you add all the thousands of situations that have gotten worse, it is not even close. We have probably caused 10-20 times the damage, especially in the long term, by locking down. 

 

Nobody even bothered to ask these questions either. "What are the negative consequences of locking down going to be?". Questions that responsible nations asked, gathered data, answered, and decided upon rational courses of action.