Koh Phangan: "Broken" foreign divers languishing in jail - expect deportation

[ICELANDMAN]

3 hours ago, rott said:

Strange illogical post, but no I have no illusions of residency I am on an extension of permission to stay based on Retirement. 

The thing that know-nothings refer to as a Retirement Visa. 

I agree with you on the retirement visa, which are worthless like the tourist visa, see these two are always considered as tourists and not as residents with a family therefore eviction without any consideration for their family situation.

[khunkarl]

I asked a local cop here on Samui why these guys are being deported over this. His answer was "they look like mafia"... ????

[brianthainess]

This is such a harsh a punishment for a crime which is just a misdemeanor, I thought this was a Buddhist country, this punishment goes against their own beliefs and it is this kind of reaction from the powers that be, giving Thailand a bad name which is also not allowed,  splitting up a husband and wife (which in many countries is against Human Rights) , i thought family came first here, absolutely no compassion coming from Thais. maybe they could claim mental props seems okay for Thais... 

[Keesters]

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

I doubt the animals cared. I mean, the sea cucumber does not even have a brain or central nervous system, to the dumb mindless thing is not likely to have emotions or feelings about the situation.  I doubt Mr crab is mentally scared for life also. 

You doubt because you don't know, not being a sea cucumber or crab yourself. 

[SupermarineS6B]

Typical Thai authorities over reaction...... should of ran a copper down and killed him, no problem,....these idiots have no idea .... driving away foreigners and destroying the country..... well done numpties...... 

[Xonax]

7 hours ago, mushroomdave said:

From the first link below:

 

"Both (these men) have given evidence to the Koh Phangan police and admitted they were the ones in the video at Salat Beach that was posted on YouTube. We have pressed charges according to the law because that is an environmentally protected area. 

 

"Touching wildlife there warrants a 100,000 baht fine or a year in jail or both".

-------------------------------------

Bottom line to make it easy for you:  It's a protected area and they shouldn't have done what they did!

------------------------------------------

 

This is pure racism. A Thai national would have received a 500 baht fine and been asked not to do it again.

[RocketDog]

23 hours ago, ukrules said:

Anyone who's considering moving to Thailand (living in Thailand / move to Thailand) in the future should read all about this.

Absolutely. It is always wise to inform one's self of any laws that may affect them before they travel to foreign countries. Ignoring this common advice can be devastating. 

[utalkin2me]

5 hours ago, cheshiremusicman said:

It's a very long time since I scuba dived and that was in the very cold and murky waters around the British Isles, but I cannot see what these two divers are being accused of apart from handling a sea cucumber, which I am sure came to no harm from its interaction with the divers. The divers maintain that they were not in a 'NO DIVE ZONE', but of course it's the Thai official who has the last say (in everything). For goodness sake, just give them a fine and let the matter rest and go after the Thai's who do so much damage to the ecology as pointed out in the quote above. I do hope that some sensibility will come out of this IMHO crazy prosecution. These people are not criminals so please use some common sense (If there is any in Thailand) and let the matter drop.

If they were in a national park, you are not even allowed to molest a rock in most cases. The question is whether or not they were in the park in my estimation. 

[RocketDog]

3 hours ago, Razek said:

It helps them go to the prison same you. Stupid man he now it is forbidden to do this.

Law don't protect the stupid

True, this is where clemency in the justice system comes into play and often earns high praise. 

Intent is a large part of the adjudication process, and it seems very likely that theses guys had no ill intent. 

 

Laws are not intended to be wielded strictly to the letter. No law can ever be precise and comprehensive enough to cover every circumstance. Involuntary manslaughter is an example. 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts have been removed. 

[Letseng]

On 9/9/2020 at 11:15 AM, ukrules said:

Anyone who's considering moving to Thailand (living in Thailand / move to Thailand) in the future should read all about this.

This isn't new. 

[utalkin2me]

I have done my fair share of scuba diving in Thailand, and want to give my interpretation of Thai protected areas here. 

 

First, the protected areas only apply to foreigners. I am not joking around either, if you think I am. Thais get away with fishing and all sorts of stuff in these protected areas. 

 

Foreigners get away with fishing and other illegal activities in protected areas, if their paid guide is a Thai. 

 

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, the boundaries to these areas are not well defined. Not well defined does not do it justice, there is no definition at all. The Thais wont even know where the actual boundaries are, now just imagine how confused a foreigner would be. 

 

The guy admitted he knew the island is covered with protected areas. That was a mistake to admit I think, but he would have been screwed either way. When they set their sights on him, they can basically just say he was in a protected area, because there is no definition of where the protected areas are. At that point, the official's definition of where the boundary is ends at "they were in the protected area". That is it, perfectly "clear" at that point. 

[Thingamabob]

Very sorry for these guys, but posting on facebook wasn't very smart.

[jingjai9]

I do not think this is any "worse" than what Steve Irwin did. Seems he become a celebrity by teasing animals such as crocodiles and snakes. Seems to be he let his daughter go quite close to dangerous animals.  Perhaps this guys did a foolish thing, but isn't there room for forgiveness?

 

[Morty T]

On 9/9/2020 at 4:40 AM, Scot123 said:

This whole thing is disgusting. Having been a diving instructor in Thailand with well over 300 dives in Thai waters I can tell you this is absolutely nothing and comparing it to what Thais do every day; from killing beautiful Trigger Fish who become to big and aggressive at dive sites dropping anchors and destroying coral beds, killing endangered animals with their nets often abandoned on coral or on the sea bed. Dugans, Turtles,  Dolphins and even Wale sharks killed either by accident or intentional.  This is like selling bread to tourists then throwing them in prison for feeding fish or picking up bleached seashells or dead coral then holding them till they have extorted hundreds of thousands from them and their families for their release. Yes great advertising within the dive community which is very small but connected internationally all around the world. A dive holiday in Thailand OMG you must be mad.

What Thai's do, while the farang are not allowed is the typical double standard that permeates this entire country. Drive anywhere in the Kingdom and this is blantaly obvious. 

[jerolamo]

4 hours ago, Kaopad999 said:

Just because someone else does something wrong , does not mean we should do the same.

if a rapist rapes someone, should we just say, hey! they did it, so why can't I ?  

imagine what sort of word we would live in with this type of logic... 

Hey, you are talking about two guys who are not criminals at all and who have a real respectful life in Thailand, one is married also, and have a little business plan and then, has the law said in Thailand, employ almost 4 Thai people and have a Thai associate at 51%.

And why are they in jail ?

Because they touch a cucumber ! Ho Buddha, please help them !

So actually, some very dangerous people put some nice people in jail for that fact.

Do you defend people who push non criminals people in jail ?

In fact, now tell us what is your real idea there ?

What can't you understand that is so easy to understand ?

 

All the year in your country you open bar with gogo dancers and sale alcohol to some farang and Thai people and when they see two normal good guys they push them in jail ? What does it means ? What do you want to explain to the world ? The divers world wide community is looking at this story closer. And this kind of story increase a very bad feeling relationship between Thailand government and the world.

 

What i'm thinking right now is that there is some other corruption story under the jacket (again and again) because maybe the guys has a nice diving season club an other one want to recover to his own plan... because why ? because this year, your government is killing YOUR business plan. that is maybe why.

How many corruption story there is again ? Everybody know and see that, do you think no one see  and everybody is stupid ? The stupidity there is to not stop speaking non sens words when everybody see the problem and what ever: the morality as it is.

 

Put in jail divers because they did touch a cucumber... incredible. And not one or two days... no, in jail like criminals !

You don't know nothing about the sea life also, i'm sure at 100%, as all the time people who don't know nothing are speaking about a subject who is far from there own life and interest.

[khunkarl]

https://thethaiger.com/news/north-east/snake-cave-closed-after-visitors-looking-for-lottery-numbers-vandalise-the-rocks

 

The visitors are of course Thai, no foreigners would do something like this, unless high on crack... They won't be imprisoned, not even fined. Foreigners diving, touching marine life is much more infuriating to the people here. Racist discrimination pure and simple. Lunatics...

[khunkarl]

20 minutes ago, jerolamo said:

Hey, you are talking about two guys who are not criminals at all and who have a real respectful life in Thailand, one is married also, and have a little business plan and then, has the law said in Thailand, employ almost 4 Thai people and have a Thai associate at 51%.

And why are they in jail ?

Because they touch a cucumber ! Ho Buddha, please help them !

So actually, some very dangerous people put some nice people in jail for that fact.

Do you defend people who push non criminals people in jail ?

In fact, now tell us what is your real idea there ?

What can't you understand that is so easy to understand ?

 

All the year in your country you open bar with gogo dancers and sale alcohol to some farang and Thai people and when they see two normal good guys they push them in jail ? What does it means ? What do you want to explain to the world ? The divers world wide community is looking at this story closer. And this kind of story increase a very bad feeling relationship between Thailand government and the world.

 

What i'm thinking right now is that there is some other corruption story under the jacket (again and again) because maybe the guys has a nice diving season club an other one want to recover to his own plan... because why ? because this year, your government is killing YOUR business plan. that is maybe why.

How many corruption story there is again ? Everybody know and see that, do you think no one see  and everybody is stupid ? The stupidity there is to not stop speaking non sens words when everybody see the problem and what ever: the morality as it is.

 

Put in jail divers because they did touch a cucumber... incredible. And not one or two days... no, in jail like criminals !

You don't know nothing about the sea life also, i'm sure at 100%, as all the time people who don't know nothing are speaking about a subject who is far from there own life and interest.

I agree with you 100%

[tyga]

I think this is the writing on the wall for all westerners living in Thailand except for perhaps the diplomatic corp and those very well connected. There is a very scary and racist undertone to this story. It has really little to do with preservation of habitat or animals which I of course would fully support if it were the case. It has everything to do with spiteful small minded indignation when foreigners are happy and carefree and 'taking advantage of what Thailand has to offer. This behaviour ranckles a certain type of character here and it has taken me a long while to figure it all out (30 years LOL). I mean, as a long term resident here, I am sure others have seen foreigners doing things and acting here and you laugh to yourself that they are so innocent or culturally insensitive. The problem is that to be totally culturally sensitive, you'd have to fit in the Thai heirarchy and we all know that we can never be part of that even if we try.  As a result, as Thais seem to get more confident (you can use a lot of other adjectives here) a larger and larger proportion of the authorities and poo yais are annoyed because they want everyone to live in fear and 'respect' for them whether they actually earnt it or deserve it. Unfortunately, the longer you live in this country, the more you realize that despite the appearance on the surface, like so much in Thailand, things are not always as they seem. A lot of society is burdened by fear of mafia, government, poverty and yes ghosts, that is simply not present in the day to day lives of the average westerner.  The authorities use this for control and the hierarchical system makes this worse. Many jumped-up individuals see foreigners as enjoying life and carefree and this ruffles their feathers. This vibe is then picked up by the population in general, that foreigners are a nuisance, or worse, and it will come a point when foreigners will be afraid to do pretty much anything without fear of being reported or videoed and misconstrued and then deported or imprisoned (think traffic infractions, public displays of affection, domestic or neighbour disputes, fending off agressive dogs and all the other things that are difficult to avoid over the long term etc) . This is what they want. So we too live in fear. The story will be totally misrepresented and believed by others and there is no recourse to set the story right. This is nothing new, and in the old days when they had printed news, it used to be a stack of 1000 baht notes and a mobile phone were shown on a bed or table as evidence of guilt of pretty much any crime. However, back then, it was not really open season on foreigners and the vibe was different. Now, they seem more emboldened and honestly, I'm getting paranoid. It is never a good idea to throw your weight around as a guest in any foreign country and I was like a lot of others here who used to say, they deserved this or that. But not any more, it has moved to another phase and I can't help thinking it reminds me a bit of what I read about Germany in the 1930s. I mean, I really thought long and hard about even typing this post because you have to assume that it is being read by people who can and will use it as evidence against you if and when they want leverage. Remember, it doesn't all happen at once but gradually over a few years that status and position is eroded to the point of persecution.

[scubascuba3]

Let's hope they see sense and show leniency and let them stay with a fine only

[teacherclaire]

It's not even sure if it was in the "protected area," but if they say so, well.

 

Anybody who reads that will not come to Thailand to join a dive trip, that's for sure.

 

Is it possible that the TAT has shot themselves in their legs? 

 

  I don't understand why some posters here are so hard on them?

 

  Holding something for a photo should not be why they sit in a dirty hot cell awaiting deportation.

 

   

[jak2002003]

4 hours ago, Keesters said:

You doubt because you don't know, not being a sea cucumber or crab yourself. 

You really think an animal with no brain can feel frightened and traumatised by being picked up?

 

Do you also think a cabbage is scared when you go to pick it?

 

[khhainuui]

16 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

'Attila,44, told Thaivisa that he first came to the country 20 years ago and fell in love with the country, its culture and ocean'

 

Probably not so keen on that culture now then, people who claim to love the culture rarely seem to know much about it though.

 

 

Majority of people living in Phangan just hang with other farangs and not speak much thai, or even care about culture even after spending years in Thailand. They go around without shirts and try to spread that western bs allaround.. was living there for year and had enough, why to move here to live same western bs, i just dont get it. 

[ericthai]

15 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Thailand is the lead plastic polluter in the World. 

 These guys pick up a few bits of sea life and their lives are ruined!

I understand you want to bash Thailand, but you cant make things up! 

China is the leader in plastic pollution, Thailand is not in the top 5 worldwide.

 

They have not gone to court yet, so how can you say their lives are ruined.  I suspect they will get a fine of 5K - 10K THB

and will deported, but not black listed.  If they are really on Tourist visas then there is more to the story as both should have work permits.

[rott]

The tourist visa bit was probably just a slip of my digital pen. The OP does not say tourist :(. 

 

As you say nothing is known or happening before the court case. 

[ChaiyaTH]

This is what makes Thailand so unattractive, everything is usually good but you can then get raided, arrested, jailed and deported over the strangest things. Just because someone not likes you or an official went insane and stupid.

Can't build a future here knowing that, at least it is a gamble. Can lose everything with one raid, even you didn't do a thing.
To be honest my only fear in Thailand, and reason to not invest anymore domestically.

Edited September 11, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[Keesters]

13 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

You really think an animal with no brain can feel frightened and traumatised by being picked up?

 

Do you also think a cabbage is scared when you go to pick it?

 

You seem to be unable to see the point. Why do it. The felon said "play with". Do you think a crab or sea cucumber understands or needs to play with a species alien to itself. It is an act of pure selfishness to "play" with a sea cucumber or crab. Let them go about their business, whatever it may be, in peace. And have never used words such as "traumatised" or "frightened" so stop attempting to put words in my mouth because that to is abuse which you seem all in favour of. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Keesters

[Tropicalevo]

4 hours ago, rott said:

The tourist visa bit was probably just a slip of my digital pen. The OP does not say tourist :(. 

 

As you say nothing is known or happening before the court case. 

I have seen at least two articles (one on TV) where immigration have said that they are on tourist visas and that these have been cancelled. It was in the opening paragraph under the photo.

No other visa types have been mentioned (to my knowledge).

[jak2002003]

3 hours ago, Keesters said:

You seem to be unable to see the point. Why do it. The felon said "play with". Do you think a crab or sea cucumber understands or needs to play with a species alien to itself. It is an act of pure selfishness to "play" with a sea cucumber or crab. Let them go about their business, whatever it may be, in peace. And have never used words such as "traumatised" or "frightened" so stop attempting to put words in my mouth because that to is abuse which you seem all in favour of.

The punishment was too severe for the 'crime'.  Have you never picked up a starfish on the beach...would you expect to go the prison and be deported for picking up sea creatures in a rockpool or on the beach?  

 

Are you a vegan animal rights activist by any chance?

 

Then animals were not harmed, the area where they were diving is not proven to be a protected area...and the divers claim it was not. 

 

Enjoy your day...and think about the poor sea life next time you eat some prawns or fish.....the consumption of such does much more damage to the marine environment than someone picking up a crab. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by jak2002003

[Vicki Coghlan]

It would seem like always in Thailand that its One Rule For Thais and Another Rule For Farungs.