Deserted Pattaya: One person's nighttime stroll shows desperate state of resort

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

You can hear a pin drop in Swindon to only punctuated by the whaling of ambulances merry christmas ???? 

Swindon, where ambulances are used for whaling on the high street.

[madmen]

Vewy quite in here. Even the hard core jungle dwelling Pattaya bashers are giving their arms a rest from beating this horse 

[hotchilli]

18 hours ago, Andy from Kent said:

 

Pattaya will survive.

 

Geographically speaking yes, but for some inhabitants sadly not.

[TKDfella]

51 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Bit difficult for more than one generation to build their life in Pattaya, unless one includes the fisherfolk that were the only inhabitants. Far as I know it only took off in the 70s, and didn't get anywhere near the present size till the 80s, probably after the 747 allowed mass tourism.

However, there could be a few bargirls that followed their mother into the trade.

Well, okay but even 70's is 40-50 years ago quite time enough for youngsters thinking they would take over from their parents. I think.

[longball53098]

14 hours ago, Pique Dard said:

those are incredible pictures! once upon a time, pattaya was a small fishing village before becoming the R&R for american soldiers on the  leave from the vietman war. so if one doesn't pay attention to all those modern and flashy buildings, and  then turn off all the neon lights, the real and old  pattaya may  come alive again!

Pattaya was never a R&R center for US GI's

[Skallywag]

Things do seem surreal here at times.  I see massage girls and bar girls buying food from the street vendors daily, yet never see any customers in their shops.  Weekends have been busy with "Domestic" tourism.  Think most girls realize they will not be getting LT or LLT, so will not be buying new iPhones this year, or more shoes, expensive make up etc...  Remember the Buddha - Life is Suffering.  So many Thais still laughing and playing and getting by somehow.  Like 7-11's and Family marts, more businesses need to shut down so others in busier areas can stay afloat.  Songthaew and Motocy taxis everywhere still, cannot fathom how they are making any money at all.  Motorcycles for rent still parked everywhere with dirt and refuse collecting underneath as none have moved for 7 months or more.  Never understood how those "rentals" are allowed on public streets and sidewalks.  If the city made them all move (tow trucks in wait), the lack of parking along and near the beach would be solved.   

[ExpatDraco]

I love Pattaya now even more! Everything is still available at much cheaper prices and better quality... ????

[3NUMBAS]

22 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Finally they got rid of the ladyboys. All it took was a worldwide pandemic.

you cant get rid of ladyboy muggers.. like roaches they will survive a nucleur blast

[3NUMBAS]

11 hours ago, Skallywag said:

Things do seem surreal here at times.  I see massage girls and bar girls buying food from the street vendors daily, yet never see any customers in their shops.  Weekends have been busy with "Domestic" tourism.  Think most girls realize they will not be getting LT or LLT, so will not be buying new iPhones this year, or more shoes, expensive make up etc...  Remember the Buddha - Life is Suffering.  So many Thais still laughing and playing and getting by somehow.  Like 7-11's and Family marts, more businesses need to shut down so others in busier areas can stay afloat.  Songthaew and Motocy taxis everywhere still, cannot fathom how they are making any money at all.  Motorcycles for rent still parked everywhere with dirt and refuse collecting underneath as none have moved for 7 months or more.  Never understood how those "rentals" are allowed on public streets and sidewalks.  If the city made them all move (tow trucks in wait), the lack of parking along and near the beach would be solved.   

titty implants will be rare this year ,pity the poor doctors instaling silicon sacs,theyll be on skid row

[Pilotman]

No Town, City or community has a God given right to exist when the rational for its existence disappears. Pattaya grew for a reason and if that reason goes and a major  adjustment isn't made , then it will wither away and it will deserve to do so.  So far, the authorities seem to be waiting for the better times to return; they may not.

[Golden Triangle]

12 hours ago, longball53098 said:

Pattaya was never a R&R center for US GI's

Pattaya was a fishing village until the 1960s. Tourism began during the Vietnam War, when American servicemen began arriving on R&R (rest and relaxation). One large group who arrived from a base in Korat on 29 June 1959 and rented houses from Phraya Sunthorn at the south end of the beach, on what is now known as the "Strip", are credited with recommending Pattaya, whose fame spread by word of mouth.^[3][4]

[onebir]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

you cant get rid of ladyboy muggers.. like roaches they will survive a nucleur blast

 

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

titty implants will be rare this year ,pity the poor doctors instaling silicon sacs,theyll be on skid row

Perhaps silicone sac demand from ladyboy muggers will be enough save the plastic surgeons?

[jacko45k]

On 10/29/2020 at 8:43 PM, sungod said:

So does Pattaya have different rules on retirement visas than the rest of Thailand.?

 

Just asking.....

They vary from region to region, always have. 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

Pattaya was a fishing village until the 1960s. Tourism began during the Vietnam War, when American servicemen began arriving on R&R (rest and relaxation). One large group who arrived from a base in Korat on 29 June 1959 and rented houses from Phraya Sunthorn at the south end of the beach, on what is now known as the "Strip", are credited with recommending Pattaya, whose fame spread by word of mouth.^[3][4]

From your link to Vietnam War,

U.S. involvement escalated under President John F. Kennedy through the MAAG program from just under a thousand military advisors in 1959 to 16,000 in 1963.

American combat troops were sent AFTER the Gulf of Tonkin incident in 1964.

Johnson ordered the deployment of combat units for the first time

 

Soooo, unless the large group who arrived from a base in Korat on 29 June 1959 were military advisors, they were not combat troops on R and R, far as I can tell.

 

If Pattaya was "famous" in 1959 it probably was for the beach and not the girls.

 

[sungod]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

They vary from region to region, always have. 

how much do you need in the bank in Pattaya, how much elsewhere?

[jacko45k]

14 minutes ago, sungod said:

how much do you need in the bank in Pattaya, how much elsewhere?

Can be zero,  to 800,000....and anything between.

For elsewhere, you need to ask people who are living there.

 

[Leaver]

22 hours ago, ExpatDraco said:

I love Pattaya now even more! Everything is still available at much cheaper prices and better quality... ????

And what if things become unavailable and / or the prices go up?  

[HashBrownHarry]

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

And what if things become unavailable and / or the prices go up?  

Why would they?

[Leaver]

9 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Why would they?

Lack of westerners here, thus, western items not being stocked in supermarkets.  

 

Many closures here, thus less options, so higher prices from the bigger establishments that have bigger overheads.

 

Lack of demand from non existent western tourists will have an effect on expats here in choice and variety, as well as pricing.    

[HashBrownHarry]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

Lack of westerners here, thus, western items not being stocked in supermarkets.  

 

Many closures here, thus less options, so higher prices from the bigger establishments that have bigger overheads.

 

Lack of demand from non existent western tourists will have an effect on expats here in choice and variety, as well as pricing.    

It's not happened so far, when do you expect it to begin?

[Kerryd]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:46 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

From your link to Vietnam War,

U.S. involvement escalated under President John F. Kennedy through the MAAG program from just under a thousand military advisors in 1959 to 16,000 in 1963.

American combat troops were sent AFTER the Gulf of Tonkin incident in 1964.

Johnson ordered the deployment of combat units for the first time

 

Soooo, unless the large group who arrived from a base in Korat on 29 June 1959 were military advisors, they were not combat troops on R and R, far as I can tell.

 

If Pattaya was "famous" in 1959 it probably was for the beach and not the girls.

 

He never said "combat troops". He said "American Servicemen". And no mention was made of Pattaya being famous for anything at the time.

From an article on Thai-American Military co-operation:
"As early as 1951, the U.S. military established bases for conventional and covert operations in Indochina, in the process drawing close to particular factions within the Thai armed forces. "
https://thaihumanrights.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/a-special-relationship-the-united-states-and-military-government-in-thailand-1947-1958/

America had been supplying Thailand with military aid and training long before they got involved in Vietnam.
"Thailand has received U.S. military equipment, essential supplies, training, and assistance in the construction and improvement of facilities and installations for much of the period since 1950. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand–United_States_relations

From another article (which doesn't list references unfortunately):
"Even before the start of the Vietnam War, American GIs had put Pattaya on the map as the best beach destination to unwind and indulge. But when large numbers of troops began to arrive at the neighbouring Ban Sattahip Air Base in 1968, things really picked up in Pattaya. Also known as U-Tapao International Airport, the army base at Sattahip was heavily staffed and used by the US Air Force throughout the Vietnam conflict."

From a Research Paper done by the Institute of East Asian Studies (University of California, Berkley) titled "The United States and Thailand Alliance Dynamics, 1950-1985":
(In 1951........) "To facilitate and super vise the training of the Thai armed forces and the distribution of military assistance, the United States established a Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) in Bangkok."

(In 1955) "Construction and installation of all facilities was turned over to the U. S. Navy in September 1955 under the auspices of JUSMAG (the Joint U.S. Military Advisory Group). By February 1960, construction had been completed at Korat, Takhli, Udorn, Ubon, and Chiang Mai airports."
(Note: The US also funded and oversaw the construction of a highway between Saraburi and Korat, then another highway connecting Bangkok to Saraburi.)

"Air America" was flying supplies into Laos since 1960 (maybe even earlier as they supposedly were helping support US Special Forces who were operating in Laos in 1959). 

So yes, there were considerable US Servicemen in Thailand long before the Vietnam war. Most of them were here in support of the Thai gov't/military and their purpose was (originally) to help counter the threat from Communist China, not Vietnam. (That came later.)

From a Wiki article on "R&R":
"Pattaya Beach in Thailand was a fishing village until the 1960s when thousands of troops from Vietnam showed up for R&R, leading to the creation of one of the largest red light districts in the world. The heart of its economy remains sex tourism. Soldiers sometimes called the breaks "I&I" for "intoxication and intercourse".[3] While this was not the idea of all, it increased the stereotype surrounding R&R."

There's also an article on the Bangkok Post's "Learning" section from 2017 that notes:
"The rise of Pattaya dates back to the Vietnam war days when US troops stationed in Thailand used it as an R&R (rest and recreation) spot, "

So, Pattaya was a "sleepy fishing village" in the beginning. American Servicemen started visiting the area as far back as 1959 apparently but it never became "famous" until the US got officially involved in the Vietnam was years later (which saw a huge surge of US personnel stationed in Thailand as well as masses of troops that chose Thailand as their R&R destination during their tour(s) in Vietnam.
 

[Kerryd]

Most tourists are not spending their holidays shopping for "foreign food" in Big C or Foodland. They are living in hotels and eating in restaurants or trying out the street food.
Unless you are counting those "genuine tourists" who seem to be on permanent holiday using back to back to back Tourist Visas.

But they would represent a tiny fraction of the overall "tourist" number and wouldn't be significant enough have an effect on where or not some stores decide to stock (or stop stocking) a particular brand of vegemite or mayonnaise.

It's the locals (Thais) and expats that fuel the demand for "Western" stuff and most of them are still here (less a few that were caught out of the country when they stopped letting people come back).
And in most other countries, production of that "stuff" hasn't stopped so there shouldn't be any shortages in the supply chain. If you notice certain items missing from the shelves, it probably has more to do with that store not restocking in a timely manner than it does with there being a "lack of tourists".

I've also noticed for years that sometimes they'll get something in stock (like Heinz Cocktail Sauce) and when it sells out they don't re-order it.

Keep in mind that it's usually the "main" store (or it's corporate HQ) that decides what goes on the shelves (and quite often even decides where on the shelves things should go) of the various branches around the country.
For example, Big C on Pattaya Tai probably has little input into what items it should/shouldn't stock and the main HQ will send it products and tell them where they should be placed. (Literally, right down to the shelf and position on the shelf in many cases.)

To be sure, the presence of large numbers of "foreigners" has an effect which is why you won't find the same items that are stocked in Pattaya branches as are stocked in say, Yasothon or Lampang branches.
I notice that in 7-11s even. I go "upcountry" and they have things that aren't normally stocked in the 7-11s around Pattaya (and visa versa). Most things are identical and things like the fresh dairy and snack food displays will be almost identical in most every branch even if those displays aren't in the same location in each branch (often due to the size/design/layout of the branch). 

But it has nothing to do with how many tourists are (or aren't) in the country at any given time. If it was, you wouldn't have any "Western" items on the shelves at all, as they would have all been replaced by Chinese and Indian foodstuffs long ago.

[bkk6060]

Most of the ex-pat residents I speak with agree that this is probably the best time ever here.

An abundance of typical retired lifestyle options, without all the negative tourist annoyances.

You can still get your evening entertainment "buzz" by hanging around WS, Treetown and LK/Central Soi B.

Especially during the daytime the rest of the city does have a rather eerie slowness about it 100's of businesses and some full blocks shut for who knows how long.

 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

Pattaya Beach in Thailand was a fishing village until the 1960s when thousands of troops from Vietnam showed up for R&R, leading to the creation of one of the largest red light districts in the world. The heart of its economy remains sex tourism. Soldiers sometimes called the breaks "I&I" for "intoxication and intercourse".[3] While this was not the idea of all, it increased the stereotype surrounding R&R."

Don't believe everything you read. Merely repeats a myth and the usual conflation. While noting the distortion of the meaning of R&R, followed slavishly here of course, it perpetuates it.

 

The thousands showed up, but in Bangkok, not Pattaya. "Thousands in Pattaya" is simply a false assertion and projection.

 

"Led to the creation," true, but after the Americans left, as the tourism potential of the location had become recognized among servicemen and businessmen of various nationalities, notably the Australians.

 

True, R&R doesn't have to mean I&I, amazingly enough. One thing nobody did then was come to Pattaya for a sex scene. That was in Bangkok for the official R&R tours and servicemen stationed at more northern bases. For U-Tapao, the nearest base to Pattaya, it was at Newland. Nobody here knows about Newland and so everyone parrots the narrative about Pattaya.

 

Pattaya:

 

 

Some of Newland:

 

 

 

Life at U-Tapao was quite busy but after all the base had everything including Newland. Serious R&R would mean returning to the States for a visit. Totally different from the life of all those thousands of lowlife drafted grunts fighting and crawling around in the jungles of Vietnam for months on end. Think: after that, would you really want to spend your precious R&R time sitting around in a Thai fishing village?????

 

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

"The rise of Pattaya dates back to the Vietnam war days when US troops stationed in Thailand used it as an R&R (rest and recreation) spot, "

Wasn't much of a rise during the Vietnam war days, however. Nothing much to do except go fishing. Take a boat out to Koh Larn & hang out a bit.

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by BigStar

[luckyluke]

22 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Especially during the daytime the rest of the city does have a rather eerie slowness

I miss sometimes the crowd in daytime, not that I want to interact with people, but I like a crowdy ambiance.

I was at the new Whiterspoon Beach road last Friday around noon, I was the only customer while I was there ( about 1 1/2 H. - 4 beers ).

 

By the way, a very nice place.

[BigStar]

34 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

You can still get your evening entertainment "buzz" by hanging around WS, Treetown and LK/Central Soi B.

Was rather surprised by all that buzz last night in the areas mentioned. Looked almost pre-COVID.

[NanLaew]

On 10/29/2020 at 9:59 PM, DrTuner said:

Finally they got rid of the ladyboys. All it took was a worldwide pandemic.

Unfortunately there's a startling number of them now working the dark and dingy, time-warp, shophouse bars in Udon Thani's pseudo red light district.

[Henryford]

It's worse than a ghost town, at least a ghost town has some ghosts.

[Leaver]

7 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

It's not happened so far, when do you expect it to begin?

Around February 21, when it's clear that high season will be a no season. 

 

Anything still open after that time, will probably make it to the end of their lease.  Will have to see how many leases are renewed on an individual basis, as they fall due.   

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Most tourists are not spending their holidays shopping for "foreign food" in Big C or Foodland.

Do you classify snowbirds as tourists, or residents?  

 

5 hours ago, Kerryd said:

But it has nothing to do with how many tourists are (or aren't) in the country at any given time. If it was, you wouldn't have any "Western" items on the shelves at all,

Restaurants catering for westerners need western ingredients. 

 

No tourists, the restaurant don't buy, the wholesaler and/or supermarket stop stocking the ingredients, which could mean availability issues for western expats.