Anxiety, suspicion exacerbate U.S. post-election uncertainty

[webfact]

Anxiety, suspicion exacerbate U.S. post-election uncertainty

By Michael Martina, Heather Timmons and Ernest Scheyder

 

Activists march along State Street in front of the Pennsylvania State Capitol Building to protest attempts to halt the counting of ballots cast in the state for the 2020 presidential election, in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania November 4, 2020. REUTERS/Nathan Layne

 

DETROIT (Reuters) - Weary from one of the most bruising U.S. presidential races in modern times, Republican and Democratic voters alike were in a state of high anxiety on Wednesday with the election outcome still unsettled a day after polls closed.

 

President Donald Trump's false declaration of victory in the early hours of Wednesday, as ballot counting continued in several pivotal states, roiled supporters of Democratic challenger Joe Biden.

 

Biden supporters expressed heightened fears the Republican incumbent might not accept the election result if he were to lose. Many in Trump's voter base, meanwhile, echoed his unsubstantiated allegations of widespread electoral tampering.

 

"Election fraud is running rampant," said Trump voter Jimmie Boyd, 48, a North Carolina gun rights activist with ties to local militia groups.

 

Boyd said he worries "left wingers" could "destroy entire cities," while protesters on the right will be demonized as "racist, phobic freaks of nature."

 

Anna Drallios, a Biden voter who immigrated to the United States from Albania in 1967, said Trump's questioning the legitimacy of the normal election process while demanding a halt to the vote count had a familiar ring.

 

"I come from a communist country, and I know what it is like not to have the vote, not to have the voice," said Drallios, one of a few hundred protesters who rallied in Harrisburg, the Pennsylvania capital, chanting, "Count our votes."

 

"If we allow our votes to be stolen from us, we are heading toward dictatorship, toward oppression," she said.

 

In Detroit, about 30 observers, mostly Republicans, were barred from entering a vote-counting hall by election officials who cited indoor capacity restrictions imposed to prevent spread of the coronavirus. Police were called to enforce the decision.

 

Many of those excluded stood outside the hall voicing their protest and singing "God Bless America" while a second group of Republican observers who were denied entry held a prayer circle nearby. They also broke into chants of "stop the vote" and "stop the count."

 

CNN and Edison Research later declared Biden the winner in Michigan.

 

The post-Election Day tension proved hard for many to bear. Some turned to turned to caffeine or sought solace in chores and other distractions.

 

"It's like the twilight zone," said Tanya Wojciak, 39, who reckoned she had downed 17 cups of coffee and found herself pacing the floors of her home in Cortland, Ohio, as she watched results trickle in from battleground states deluged by record-breaking numbers of early mail-in ballots.

 

"Trump's scary, premature declaration of victory has me unnerved," said Wojciak, who said she voted for Biden even though she is a Republican.

 

Legal experts have said the election outcome could become bogged down in state-by-state litigation over a host of issues, including whether late-arriving ballots can be counted.

 

PROTESTS BREWING

Activists demanding that vote counts proceed unimpeded rallied in several cities, including Oakland, California; Atlanta; Detroit; and New York City.

 

Hundreds of protesters waving American flags and signs that read, "Count every vote, every vote counts," demonstrated peacefully at Washington Square Park after marching through midtown Manhattan.

 

"It's very important that we make sure that our democracy is maintained," Meira Harris, 26, a social work student. "This election has provoked so much anxiety."

 

City police posted pictures on social media of debris fires in lower Manhattan that they said were set by protesters. They said at least 20 people were arrested, accused of blocking traffic, disorderly conduct and similar offenses.

 

The Protect the Results coalition, encompassing dozens of groups from Planned Parenthood to Republicans for the Rule of Law, had said it was organizing a day of mass protests in 500 cities. But those plans were put on hold late in the day.

 

U.S. officials said they have kept a wary eye on right-wing militias, worried that Trump's allegations of ballot fraud could bring heavily armed groups out onto the streets. So far, they appeared to be keeping a low profile.

 

Enrique Tarrio, leader of the far-right men's group Proud Boys, said he and three others were stabbed early on Wednesday blocks away from the White House. One of his alleged assailants wore a "Black Lives Matter" mask, he told Reuters.

 

Local police said they could not confirm that account and no arrests were immediately made. The Washington chapter of the anti-racism movement said on Twitter it had nothing to do with the alleged attack.

 

RETREAT FROM THE FRENZY

In Gibsonburg, Ohio, Tom Younker distracted himself from televised election coverage by tending to his tomato garden. A 74-year-old painting contractor who has served on the local board of elections for 34 years, Younker said he caught just a few hours of sleep after a late night tallying votes.

 

"It's like an up-and-down see-saw," said Younker, a Biden voter. "You think you're going to win pretty big, then you see it tightening."

 

In McConnellsburg, Pennsylvania, Stanley Kerlin, 66, a lawyer who voted for Trump, questioned the integrity of those tabulating many of the ballots in his state.

 

"Most of them are down in Philadelphia and you can't trust those people any further than you can throw 'em," said Kerlin, a Pennsylvania Republican Party committee member. Still, he said Trump spoke too soon in claiming victory early on Wednesday.

 

Judy Mowery, 60, a Biden voter from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, said she worried about violence between opposing political blocs regardless of the outcome.

 

"Even if Biden wins, which I think he may, we as a country have lost," Mowery said. "We are even more divided than I thought."

 

(Reporting by Michael Martina in Detroit, Heather Timmons in Washington and Ernest Scheyder in Houston; Additional reporting by Gabriella Borter in Cleveland, Brad Brooks in Dallas, and Nathan Layne in McConnellsburg, Pa., Nick Brown, Peter Szekely and Maria Caspani in New York, and Ted Hesson in Washington, Mimi Dwywer in Phoenix and Ben Klayman in Detroit; Writing by Jonathan Allen, Frank McGurty and Steve Gorman; Editing by Alistair Bell, Sonya Hepinstall and Cynthia Osterman)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-05

 

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[Dumbastheycome]

I just  can not understand  any justification in any attempt to  stop a  count of  votes !

 

[Mavideol]

He hasn’t won these states. Nobody is saying he’s won the states. The states haven’t said that he’s won.”

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/chris-wallace-trump-threw-match-into-flammable-situation-election-night-speech-104839411.html

Chris Wallace says Trump 'threw a match' into flammable situation with election night speech

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, webfact said:

President Donald Trump's false declaration of victory in the early hours of Wednesday

And that along with his attempts to prevent people’s  legitimate votes being counted is the reason for the anxiety.

 

The chaos surrounding the election and the assaults upon it’s legitimacy are entirely upon trump, his narcissistic paranoia, his refusal to accept defeat and  inability to accept anything that contradicts his egoistical denials of reality. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Bluespunk
Spelling and punctuation

[Mavideol]

12 minutes ago, webfact said:

Anxiety, suspicion exacerbate U.S. post-election uncertainty

they only have Trump to blame for all of it.... with his constant rhetoric of mailing ballot and voting fraud,  instructing the USPS to slow down delivery of mail, not accepting democrat process of vote counting.....

[xylophone]

7 minutes ago, webfact said:

"Even if Biden wins, which I think he may, we as a country have lost," Mowery said. "We are even more divided than I thought."

That comment ties in very nicely with a post I made on another thread stating "America being the loser" in this election.....

 

We have just experienced four years of the most divisive and dishonest presidency in American history, which attacked the twin pillars of our democracy — truth and trust. President Donald Trump did not spend a single day of his term trying to be president of all the people, and he broke rules and trashed norms in ways that no president ever dared.....

 

Trump was divisive on just about every subject, and re-introduced into the American lingo the term "commies" which I hadn't seen used for years, when describing the Democratic party, when in fact they are nothing of the sort, being just centre left in the US, however would rank centre-right in other countries; whatever, they are far from being communists.

 

It's that sort of hatred that he loves to feed to his right wing cohorts/supporters and unfortunately there are those dumb enough to pick it up and run with it, thereby creating division.

 

If you think about all that he has said and all that his supporters have adopted/taken on board, there is no other explanation than to label him a cult leader, whom his supporters will follow to the end of the earth, believing his lies and distortions and making it a sad day for those folk in America who just want to see a UNITED States of America.

 

I have an article from a US professor friend of mine and I will reproduce it a few posts down, and it is well worth reading because it addresses problems that America had and has and states quite clearly that trump is not the problem at the moment, he is the result of the problem...... anyway I will find it and post it if I'm allowed.

 

[xylophone]

 

This is the article from a learned US friend that I was referring to and it makes for interesting reading..............

 

I cut my analytical teeth as a professional political journalist, hired and awarded by a conservative state capital newspaper in Colombia South Carolina. I covered the state legislature and governor’s office.

 

I broke stories that ruined powerful people empowered people who could not fight for themselves and exposed fraud, waste and abuse – – my paper got hate mail addressed to me, and all the while I was held accountable by my editor and publisher.

 

Then I wrote countless court reports for the Juvenile Justice System in Lane County and reports/memoranda for the general narcotics bureau in Singapore.

 

This culminated PHD doctoral dissertation in American Studies (political economy) that eventually became two separate book length manuscripts with 30+ pages of footnotes and references.

 

In summary I have been at this professionally for a very long time and personally witnessed much of what I address in this document.

 

 

Democracy died in 2000 when the super politicized SCOTUS stole the election from Al Gore (1).docx

Edited November 5, 2020 by xylophone

[Agusts]

I really don't believe so many Americans are that naive to believe and vote for DT, remember 2016 when so many Republicans publicly hated him and criticized him, but what happened is they are so divided and filled with hate, they are voting basically against the opposition, no matter who they are voting for, if Donald Duck was the candidate against Democrats they would vote for him, they don't really care - which is sad and very dangerous..., you can see a lot of this happened in the history in many other countries in the past with catastrophic results....!!! ☹️

 

[JCauto]

5 hours ago, xylophone said:

That comment ties in very nicely with a post I made on another thread stating "America being the loser" in this election.....

 

We have just experienced four years of the most divisive and dishonest presidency in American history, which attacked the twin pillars of our democracy — truth and trust. President Donald Trump did not spend a single day of his term trying to be president of all the people, and he broke rules and trashed norms in ways that no president ever dared.....

 

Trump was divisive on just about every subject, and re-introduced into the American lingo the term "commies" which I hadn't seen used for years, when describing the Democratic party, when in fact they are nothing of the sort, being just centre left in the US, however would rank centre-right in other countries; whatever, they are far from being communists.

 

It's that sort of hatred that he loves to feed to his right wing cohorts/supporters and unfortunately there are those dumb enough to pick it up and run with it, thereby creating division.

 

If you think about all that he has said and all that his supporters have adopted/taken on board, there is no other explanation than to label him a cult leader, whom his supporters will follow to the end of the earth, believing his lies and distortions and making it a sad day for those folk in America who just want to see a UNITED States of America.

 

I have an article from a US professor friend of mine and I will reproduce it a few posts down, and it is well worth reading because it addresses problems that America had and has and states quite clearly that trump is not the problem at the moment, he is the result of the problem...... anyway I will find it and post it if I'm allowed.

 

True, and it was the deliberate denigration and politicization of truth to the end goal of construction of an alternative reality. It is only by creating the alternative reality where people who are career journalists, scientists and civil servants are suddenly not just ordinary people doing their jobs as they had for the previous x number of years but a huge conspiratorial clique that are somehow able to coordinate and operate a "Deep State" parallel government outside of politics and, of course, entirely aligned with the Democrat Party. These "enemies" can then be discounted and replaced by loyalists, even in senior scientific and technical capacities that they have limited or no expertise in. This is central to their success, since you have to deconstruct people's previous reality to get them to buy into the new one you've just created out of whole cloth. That's how you can then get people who had previously espoused a deep interest and attachment to policy and philosophy to completely switch their views on their core principles and follow an ever-changing kaleidoscope of belief that boils down to "whatever Donald said or tweeted a second ago". And yes, as you have pointed out, this is entirely cult-like behaviour.

I think the non-Cult people who voted for him basically are one-issue voters mostly motivated by lower taxes, abortion or "owning the libs". The remaining ones probably think government is a bunch of <deleted> and doesn't matter regardless of who is in power and treat it like any other entertainment source so chose the one who provides the most entertainment. That would certainly be a logical choice in this instance.

At the end of the day, I think it's not America who is the loser so much as the rest of the world who had no say in this farce but who will suffer the consequences of a country for whom the exaltation of the individual over society has resulted in a country that is deeply damaging to society, both inside and outside of the USA. The cost in lives from COVID-19 is a good example of this within the country, while the hundreds of millions of future deaths caused by the continued intransigence and political success of the climate deniers will continue to pile up.

[xylophone]

32 minutes ago, JCauto said:

a huge conspiratorial clique that are somehow able to coordinate and operate a "Deep State" parallel government outside of politics and, of course, entirely aligned with the Democrat Party.

"A deep state parallel government outside of politics and, of course, entirely aligned with the Democratic party".

 

Obviously we are not on the same page, as IMO "deep state" exists in the minds of filmmakers and a few other agitators.

 

Having said that, I do agree that the climate deniers, many of whom follow trump's lead, could be responsible for a future catastrophe, but then again perhaps they are of the limited mentality of trump, because he really doesn't know what it's all about either.

 

I hope you read the attachment in my post five hours ago, entitled "Democracy died in 2002.......... " 

 

Well worth a read if you haven't done so already

[Paul Henry]

Don't think Trump will get far with his petty frivolous claims. His lawyers don't have the ability  to fight their way out a wet paper bag. They have already lost a number of case and will lose the ones they are putting up now. each of the states and the Dems have had months to prepare. Need to make sure Trump doesn't use Gov money to pay for his foolish spoilt little boy games.

[Dumbastheycome]

6 hours ago, Mavideol said:

they only have Trump to blame for all of it.... with his constant rhetoric of mailing ballot and voting fraud,  instructing the USPS to slow down delivery of mail, not accepting democrat process of vote counting.....

Worse than and compounded by Trump's appointee  to the USPS  refusal to comply  with a Federal Judges  instruction to sweep Post Offices  for  any ballots received but  not forwarded to counting centers. I  can  only hope there will be  serious ramifications about that level of blatant interference.

[Sujo]

Trump complains and starts lawsuits before the states even declare who won.

 

Desperate much?

 

Will be interesting which lawsuits he choses, to stop the votes or to continue the votes. His supporters are doing the excorsist head spin.

[connda]

Move elections and voting to the block-chain and all this nonsense is avoided.  But that will never happen.  A segment of the population wants the electoral processes to be maintained like those in third-world countries.  That way the results can be obfuscated when needed, like this election cycle.

[connda]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

"Trump's scary, premature declaration of victory has me unnerved," said Wojciak, who said she voted for Biden even though she is a Republican.

 

Trump's scary, premature declaration of victory was made to unnerve you.  And you took the bait.
Tune out until January.  You'll maintain your sanity that way.  You'll know who actually won by inauguration day even if its the Supreme Court telling you.  Until then?  Don't get too excited about anybody saying either candidate has won.  You'll know for sure the day the president takes the oath of office.

[RocketDog]

7 hours ago, Agusts said:

but what happened is they are so divided and filled with hate, they are voting basically against the opposition, no matter who they are voting for, if Donald Duck was the candidate against Democrats they would vote for him, they don't really care - which is sad and very dangerous

I understand what you are saying, and generally agree. I've never voted a 'straight ticket' along party lines in my life until this election. 

At this point is it really wrong that I voted against every republican on the ballot? I think not. It's guilt by association, pure and simple. 

 

Sometimes a broad spectrum insecticide is the only way to be sure you kill every pest in your house. I don't have the time or interest to study the platform or credentials of every cockroach I see.

Personally I like spiders but...... 

[RocketDog]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

Trump's scary, premature declaration of victory was made to unnerve you.  And you took the bait.
Tune out until January.  You'll maintain your sanity that way.  You'll know who actually won by inauguration day even if its the Supreme Court telling you.  Until then?  Don't get too excited about anybody saying either candidate has won.  You'll know for sure the day the president takes the oath of office.

Huh? Say what?

 

I happen to consider the stakes very high in this election and went to a lot of trouble to vote from Thailand. With the attitude you espouse I wouldn't have bothered. 

 

This is not an episode of The Apprentice or The Bachelor. 

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, Paul Henry said:

Don't think Trump will get far with his petty frivolous claims. His lawyers don't have the ability  to fight their way out a wet paper bag. They have already lost a number of case and will lose the ones they are putting up now. each of the states and the Dems have had months to prepare. Need to make sure Trump doesn't use Gov money to pay for his foolish spoilt little boy games.

The competency of his lawyers is irrelevant. This is why lawyers are rightfully the butt of many jokes. Many will take any case that pays well. The truth is that few of such care a whit about the outcome. Some may actually be in thrall to the Deluded Yam but not many. A fool and his money are soon parted. 

[Agusts]

Are they actually going to count votes via embassies...! They say let's forget about the postal votes from people living there...!? ????

 

Another 4 years of this guy and he will say let's just count votes from my supporters...!!! lol..., like in certain other countries...! 

 

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, Agusts said:

Are they actually going to count votes via embassies...! They say let's forget about the postal votes from people living there...!? ????

 

 

 

US Embassies abroad do not conduct voting nor count votes, not their role and never has been.

 

The only thing they do with regard to voting is forward ballots (already placed by the voter in a sealed envelope  addressed to a US county Board of Elections) to the US postal service via the diplomatic pouch.

 

All vote counting is done in the US by county-level Boards of Election. And each state has its own rules regarding mailed ballots, cut off dates etc.

[earlinclaifornia]

CNN just now said we will probably see a meaningful result TODAY

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

CNN just now said we will probably see a meaningful result TODAY

You probably mean Pennsylvania. The big Kahuna. The Scranton Scramble. Philadelphia freedom. 

[earlinclaifornia]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

"A deep state parallel government outside of politics and, of course, entirely aligned with the Democratic party".

 

Obviously we are not on the same page, as IMO "deep state" exists in the minds of filmmakers and a few other agitators.

 

Having said that, I do agree that the climate deniers, many of whom follow trump's lead, could be responsible for a future catastrophe, but then again perhaps they are of the limited mentality of trump, because he really doesn't know what it's all about either.

 

I hope you read the attachment in my post five hours ago, entitled "Democracy died in 2002.......... " 

 

Well worth a read if you haven't done so already

Bannon admitted he made up the term Deep State. This Resonates when I see a posting referencing.

[earlinclaifornia]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You probably mean Pennsylvania. The big Kahuna. The Scranton Scramble. Philadelphia freedom. 

And Nevada and/or Georgia I  am thinking

[ballpoint]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You probably mean Pennsylvania. The big Kahuna. The Scranton Scramble. Philadelphia freedom. 

Nice trend there as more votes are counted:

Votes  counted  Trump  Biden

53%                      56.7%  41.9%

69%                      56.5%  42.1%

76%                      54.7%  43.9%

81%                      53.1%  45.6%

85%                      52.6%  47.1%

 

Will it be enough?  Will it matter in the end?  Remains to be seen.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, ballpoint said:

Nice trend there as more votes are counted:

Votes  counted  Trump  Biden

53%                      56.7%  41.9%

69%                      56.5%  42.1%

76%                      54.7%  43.9%

81%                      53.1%  45.6%

85%                      52.6%  47.1%

 

Will it be enough?  Will it matter in the end?  Remains to be seen.

 

 

 

I have an opinion but I don't want to jinx it by saying it.

[earlinclaifornia]

3 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Nice trend there as more votes are counted:

Votes  counted  Trump  Biden

53%                      56.7%  41.9%

69%                      56.5%  42.1%

76%                      54.7%  43.9%

81%                      53.1%  45.6%

85%                      52.6%  47.1%

 

Will it be enough?  Will it matter in the end?  Remains to be seen.

 

 

 

The Senator from there was just interviewed and he was quite we'll informed and he believed this will end up Biden. I hear the remaining is either 400 or 700 thousand.

[Tug]

15 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I just  can not understand  any justification in any attempt to  stop a  count of  votes !

 

There isent any it’s just trump having his usual tantrums 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, xylophone said:

 

This is the article from a learned US friend that I was referring to and it makes for interesting reading..............

 

I cut my analytical teeth as a professional political journalist, hired and awarded by a conservative state capital newspaper in Colombia South Carolina. I covered the state legislature and governor’s office.

 

I broke stories that ruined powerful people empowered people who could not fight for themselves and exposed fraud, waste and abuse – – my paper got hate mail addressed to me, and all the while I was held accountable by my editor and publisher.

 

Then I wrote countless court reports for the Juvenile Justice System in Lane County and reports/memoranda for the general narcotics bureau in Singapore.

 

This culminated PHD doctoral dissertation in American Studies (political economy) that eventually became two separate book length manuscripts with 30+ pages of footnotes and references.

 

In summary I have been at this professionally for a very long time and personally witnessed much of what I address in this document.

 

 

Democracy died in 2000 when the super politicized SCOTUS stole the election from Al Gore (1).docx 48.21 kB · 15 downloads

Thank you for linking that interesting article. I agree with much that it said such as the SCOTUS wrongly awarding the election to Bush the younger, the man that WAS in my opinion, the worst president in US history, save Jackson. Had Gore won, Iraq and all the horror that followed might have been avoided.

 

Where I have an issue is his willingness to vilify Trump, while overlooking that, IMO and that of many, Trump is the result of a divided and broken US political system where Washington has become too corrupt, and that IMO applies EQUALLY to GOP and Democrat parties. Trump is, IMO, the result of the hatred dislike middle America holds for Washington, not the cause of it.

 

While he started well, later on IMO he becomes partisan and implies that the Democrat party is the solution, though IMO it is as guilty of bad politics as the GOP. I see no difference between the parties in practice.

 

At the very end he says "A business-friendly center-right party willing to play by the rules is essential if American democracy is to be reclaimed" and I agree with that, but the Democrats are no more that party than the GOP is, IMO.

 

He ended with "It is the anti-democratic, power obsessed GOP--and the billions in dark money that funds, directs and sustains it--that infected the American political culture with a lethal cancer.  That horrible social disease has relentlessly eroded, defamed and destroyed essential democratic norms. The Trump presidency is merely the almost inevitable outcome of a process of rot that began decades ago."

so he recognises that Trump is a symptom, not a cause of the rot, but IMO wrong to assign dark forces to the GOP alone. The blame lies equally with both parties IMO.

Clinton, for all his faults, after his impeachment worked WITH the GOP, and that worked well for the benefit of the populace. When Obama said he had a pen, he rejected co operation with the GOP.

Seems to me that too many politicians never have a real job, spend their working lives in politics and have no idea at all what it's like to be the common man that they rule. Also seems to me that too many politicians think it's all about THEM, and forget that they are servants to the people that pay their wages.

 

My opinion, and I've posted it on more than one occasion, is that US politics is broken, and IMO beyond salvage. As has become obvious in an election where the most votes have been cast in US history, the US is divided almost 50/50, and I for one, can't see that rift being healed by anyone from the two main parties. IMO the divisions are too deep and too entrenched.

 

Perhaps the solution would be for California to become a separate country ( that has been mooted by a few before ) and a new political system/ constitution for the remainder.

IMO the present system is too broken to fix and will eventually end in tears. Better to replace it now than after catastrophe happens, IMO.

[Scott]

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