UK tells EU: back down by Sunday night or we'll walk

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 Know he never you have made up the part about Brexit. How deceitful. is that a remainer trait or just aligned to you.

Best laugh I've had all day......I do like your sense of humor.

[Laughing Gravy]

26 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

If in doubt always go with Churchill or Mark Twain....555

 I do look at my signature.????

[RayC]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Freedom is always worth a little sacrifice.

 

Given your moniker, I assume that you are resident in Thailand? If so, welcome to the growing band of TVF posters who are keen on having UK residents to make sacrifices on their behalf.

[luckyluke]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

why can't the remainers see that we have left and get behind their country and MUKGA.

 

The can see that the U.K. will leave,

 

 they not per se going to celebrate with the winning team.

 

Googled MUKGA, didn't find anything.

 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

In the event that the UK rejects the latest  measures proposed by the EU concerning transport, and neither side recognises the other's regulations, how will freight continue to move if a dispute arises?

By entering negotiations on both sides that relate to the issue in hand and exclude all side deals/add-ons

[luckyluke]

49 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think it would be safe to say without any fear of contradiction that the EU knows nothing of the word "goodwill"

Many in the U.K. will probably agree with you.

Probably a few in the E.U. as well, the rest in the E.U. may not agree.

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

By entering negotiations on both sides that relate to the issue in hand and exclude all side deals/add-ons

No...never.....stuff them walk away...clean break is the only way (Mark Twain)

[RayC]

57 minutes ago, vogie said:

And in a democracy the losers must give their consent to the outcome of whatever was voted for, and without the losers consent democracy will totally collapse. That it the reason a democratic result must be given the highest respect.

 

Apart from the relatively small number of people who campaigned for a second referendum, you have had 'losers consent' since June 2016.

 

The next step is for the winners to be responsible and accountable for their actions in implementing their mandate. Unfortunately, this appears to be something you are incapable of.

 

No doubt, this will elicit the same tired old cliques about 'Leave' being unable to deliver what it promised due to 1) a 'Remainer' UK parliament and/or 2) an intransigent EU. Absolutely nonsense: 1) is no longer a factor if it ever was, and in the case of 2) why promise what you can't guarantee? Unless, of course, you thought that the UK negotiators were simply going to tip up in Brussels with a list of demands, and simply say to their EU counterparts 'Sign here'.

 

This whole fiasco was created, and has been continuously made worse, by the complete incompetence of successive Tory governments. 

 

3.5 more years of this shower! Someone or something help us, please.

[Hi from France]

4 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Quoting 'On the road to Mandalay'......springs to mind...what a moron.

What is the source? 

 

Not that this is not typical Johnson behavior... 

[RayC]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

By entering negotiations on both sides that relate to the issue in hand and exclude all side deals/add-ons

 

And that will mean that the EU will have to agree, in theory, to the possibility of the UK offering state subsidies to its aviation and freight industries; something that it refuses to contemplate. So the same impasse (an apt-time in the circumstances).

 

I can only repeat my previous comments. The EU proposal is effectively an extension of the transition period for the transport sector. Does the UK government have legislation, which affects these sectors, waiting to be implemented in early 2021? Even in the unlikely event that is the case, is that legislation so urgent that it is worth bringing the country to a standstill? A standstill will have negative effects for certain EU members, but nothing like as severe as for an island like GB.

 

Johnson needs to be pragmatic about this and do what is best for the country, not what will appease his ERG supporters.

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

And that will mean that the EU will have to agree, in theory, to the possibility of the UK offering state subsidies to its aviation and freight industries; something that it refuses to contemplate. So the same impasse (an apt-time in the circumstances).

 

I can only repeat my previous comments. The EU proposal is effectively an extension of the transition period for the transport sector. Does the UK government have legislation, which affects these sectors, waiting to be implemented in early 2021? Even in the unlikely event that is the case, is that legislation so urgent that it is worth bringing the country to a standstill? A standstill will have negative effects for certain EU members, but nothing like as severe as for an island like GB.

 

Johnson needs to be pragmatic about this and do what is best for the country, not what will appease his ERG supporters.

if these are contingency plans the maxium duration of each plan should be no more than 90 days so no  need for a level playing field 

Some people view these contingency plans as the EU attempting to get what they wanted but failed to get through the ongoing negotiations which are due to finished tomorrow

[Rookiescot]

I wonder if in 5 years time we will be able to find anyone who will admit they voted for Brexit. ????

Of course for the next two years we will need to put up with them blaming everyone and anything except themselves for Brexit happening.  

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Quoting 'On the road to Mandalay'......springs to mind...what a moron.

Is that a tweet from someone called Grousebeater

There must be a reason why you are shy to reveal the identity of the twitter account

I do recall seeing past posts from Grouse 

 

https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1337355748116992000/photo/1

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Meanwhile, parts of the mini-deals offered by the EU to the UK contain the same demands for so-called level playing field provisions that have been - along with fishing rights - such a contentious aspect of post-Brexit trade negotiations.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-eu-proposes-no-deal-contingency-measures-for-plans-lorries-and-fishing-boats-12156764

The level playing field is about unfair advantage in trade. May be you can explain how that relates to the recognition of safety certificates and other legal documents.

[Surelynot]

49 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Is that a tweet from someone called Grousebeater

There must be a reason why you are shy to reveal the identity of the twitter account

I do recall seeing past posts from Grouse 

 

https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1337355748116992000/photo/1

No idea who they are.....this was posted as it was sent to me via WhatsApp.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

if these are contingency plans the maxium duration of each plan should be no more than 90 days so no  need for a level playing field 

Some people view these contingency plans as the EU attempting to get what they wanted but failed to get through the ongoing negotiations which are due to finished tomorrow

 

And we come full circle. I guess our exchange encapsulates the wider problem. Neither of us fully understanding the other's position and, therefore, neither of us willing to give ground.

 

In the wider context, we can only hope that in the event of no agreements of any sort, that the aircraft and lorries still manage to keep going.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

if these are contingency plans the maxium duration of each plan should be no more than 90 days so no  need for a level playing field 

Highlights the lack of understanding.

The level playing field has always been there, nothing new.

If the EU changes any product specification or requirements, then all countries that wish to sell in the EU must follow suit. Normally there is a grace period for goods already in the EU.

For countries that are some distance from the EU, Canada or China for example, it normally only relates to the product in question as the cost of transport would normally overshadow any deviance in the domestic situation.

The UK is a completely different scenario, being on the doorstep of the EU other factors must be taken into account that would create a competitive advantage.

I fail to see why people have so much difficulty understanding this point. To put it simply, how would you feel if a bar opened up next door to yours and was only paying half the rent.

[vinny41]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Highlights the lack of understanding.

The level playing field has always been there, nothing new.

If the EU changes any product specification or requirements, then all countries that wish to sell in the EU must follow suit. Normally there is a grace period for goods already in the EU.

For countries that are some distance from the EU, Canada or China for example, it normally only relates to the product in question as the cost of transport would normally overshadow any deviance in the domestic situation.

The UK is a completely different scenario, being on the doorstep of the EU other factors must be taken into account that would create a competitive advantage.

I fail to see why people have so much difficulty understanding this point. To put it simply, how would you feel if a bar opened up next door to yours and was only paying half the rent.

You were discussing the EU  contingency proposals  that contain the agreement of a level playing field

Which you claim is garbage 

And the Guardian,BBC and Sky news state the EU  contingency proposals  do contain  the agreement of a level playing field as part of the mini deals

EU makes fishing and transport no-deal offers in return for 'level playing field'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/10/raab-eu-must-make-substantial-shift-for-brexit-talks-to-succeed

Brexit: EU sets out plans in case trade talks with UK fail

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55259144

Brexit: EU risks fresh fishing row with UK over no-deal contingency plans

Meanwhile, parts of the mini-deals offered by the EU to the UK contain the same demands for so-called level playing field provisions that have been - along with fishing rights - such a contentious aspect of post-Brexit trade negotiations.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-eu-proposes-no-deal-contingency-measures-for-plans-lorries-and-fishing-boats-12156764

[sirineou]

13 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It is not the barbill. We bought a big chunk of the pub. We want deserve our percentage. We want to go but the dregs and hangers on, who don't buy a round and the ones that buy for the others won't let us.

 

We are part owners of the pub and have paid a lot. We want to drink there but not at ridiculous prices. If not we will go other pubs, there are more around.

 

Most of the others in this pub use our parking lot (waters) and have parked their cars in there for a long time and take up more space than the Brits. You have also used our other services and were happy too. sending your kids top universities and schools in the UK.

 

By the way who was full of love? Just look at the British comedy of the last 50 years we have hardly had a love affair with the French and Germans and the rest of Europe.

I am only having fun with all of you, As an American I am just happy to see others almost as ridiculous as we are.  

[Throatwobbler]

On 12/11/2020 at 7:53 AM, Laughing Gravy said:

We won't although we will have a huge bag of money that will not be going the EU's way and a lot of other goodies that we do not have to give in the future.

 

No doubt there will be some disruption but well worth it to be rid of the EU.  Then the UK can get back to trying to feed itself again and building industry. Who on earth would plan so a country can't feed itself. Well the EU did with its agricultural policy and Fisheries scam. Who would become nothing more than a service industry while allowing your neighbour (France) to monopolise farming.

 

I am happy for the rest of the EU who seems to love each other. Great for you. You better start digging in your pockets, as there is a huge whole left that you have to fill with the UK leaving in its entirety.

 

I am for buying British campaign. You can keep the EU products at their extortionate prices.

 

So I guess we are all happy.

I don’t know how you can write such a huge pile of nonsense then have that quote from Mark Twain at the end. You are type of person he is talking about.

[Throatwobbler]

On 12/11/2020 at 9:28 PM, Loiner said:

They are all Remainer loser threads. TVF posts a piece of Reuters anti-Brexit propaganda or a spinned version and they all lap it up. What's odds there's a plethora of 'We're out and doomed' from Monday morning? 

I am sorry that some people understand the realities of the situation and can see the enormous damage that this will do to the Uk. Brexiteers like yourself just continue to live in La la land.

[CharlieH]

Reported post removed.

 

Dont get personal in your remarks, keep it civil please.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Throatwobbler said:

I am sorry that some people understand the realities of the situation and can see the enormous damage that this will do to the Uk. Brexiteers like yourself just continue to live in La la land.

Brexiteers are prepared to look forward and ready to thrive under new and exciting conditions with enormous opportunities, trading freely with every land, not only your La la land. 

Remainers can only see the change they strived to stifle, and would rather stay huddled sucking their EU safety blankets. Rather than accept improvement they stupidly cling to the propaganda of doom they were gullible enough to believe, while peering under the bed afraid of big bad Boris the Brish bogeyman. 

[david555]

...

 

Foreign-owned super trawler will still control biggest slice of Britain's fishing quota after Brexit
A Lowestoft fisherman said 'The Government allowed our quota to be bought up by foreign companies, but it’s a public asset'

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/12/foreign-owned-super-trawler-will-still-control-biggest-slice/

By Jon Ungoed-Thomas
12 December 2020 • 6:00pm

Ministers are being urged to take action against a foreign-owned super trawler which was once caught by the Royal Navy illegally fishing off the Cornish coast - and now controls the biggest amount of UK fishing quota.

 

The 119-metre long Frank Bonefaas - which processes and freezes its vast catch on board - is the largest trawler registered in the British fishing fleet. The trawler controls 23 per cent of England’s fishing quota and lands its entire catch in Holland.

Campaigners say the operation of Frank Bonefaas exposes that even after the Brexit transition, more than half of England’s fishing quota will be controlled by foreign fishing companies in Holland, Spain and Iceland. They want a radical overhaul of fisheries policy to ensure more quota for British fisherman

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by david555

[luckyluke]

So apparently by this evening we should know more. 

 

Optimists, pessimists, realists have a different opinion of what the U.K. & E.U. will be, once Brexit (with, or without a deal) will be, when completely implemented. 

 

A fact is, it remains an unknown, and will be so for a long time. 

 

The Brexit referendum was a democratic event, the Leave voters won. 

 

I don't know what name given to a situation, where a part of the population of one country,  is able to influence, threw an occurence, the (economical and other) , future of the entire population of 28?

 

Further more, is this  allowed (under the name of sovereignty), morally acceptable? 

 

Of course one may expect different perception/approach/opinion to these questions, depending on the nationality, and other factors, of the sayer. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

20 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Like that.

 

An Europe Union where peace reign.

 

Something similar to the United States of America, where after the Secession War there is peace between all the states.

 

And The United Kingdom where after the wars with the Scottish ,there is peace between the four countries.

 

Of course I not expect that everything is going swimmingly, it isn't the case nor in the U.S.A. neither in the U.K..

 

In the meantime, it seems that Hungary & Poland agreed on a compromise.

 

Further problems will certainly rise, comprehensible in an union of 27 countries. 

 

Anyway in your idealistic Europe and its unification. when will Russia be joining you.????

[Laughing Gravy]

10 hours ago, sirineou said:

I am only having fun with all of you, As an American I am just happy to see others almost as ridiculous as we are.  

No we haven't stooped that low yet but at times we were close????. Like when GB Junior got into power with Florida state in 2000. Don't get me wrong we have had some clowns with Blair Major and Heath.

 

We are following through a democratic referendum though which is something especially in the EU as it is usually ignored or vote again until the right answer comes in.

[Laughing Gravy]

10 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

I don’t know how you can write such a huge pile of nonsense then have that quote from Mark Twain at the end. You are type of person he is talking about.

Says you telling others. You say people who voted for Brexit (Brexiteers) are living in la la land. I call them patriots and not slaves who have confidence in their country and pride to to make it better. 

 

So where are you from then? Or are you a remainer that still can't come to terms with a democratic referendum and 2 GE on where people voted for the party who were delivering brexit.

[luckyluke]

25 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Anyway in your idealistic Europe and its unification. when will Russia be joining you.????

They may, or than not.

Maybe one day, it us, who will be part of G.R. ( Great Russia ).

[Laughing Gravy]

20 hours ago, luckyluke said:

However I don't understand,  why they would claim victory now for leaving the E.U with a non-deal;

there have never been one.

I will remind you again but for many people who voted for Brexit meant leaving the EU and the ECJ, customs Union and single market. Remainers have coined that term a no deal.

 

For me and many others it is what is really leaving the EU is and what was promoted by the remain campaign when we voted.

 

So it will be a victory because remainers in the government  such as Teresa May and in the HoL have done their best to keep us in those parts of the EU.

 

I hope that helps.