Beloved Miami obstetrician Gregory Michael, 56, died following a suspected catastrophic reaction to the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine

[Bender Rodriguez]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9119431/Miami-doctor-58-dies-three-weeks-receiving-Pfizer-Covid-19-vaccine.html

[tifino]

a paid Pfizer spokesman would be to least reliable to obtain any response from...  

[mommysboy]

There could be a connection here. It needs investigating.  It's an experimental vaccine that's for sure and ordinarily it would need 5-10 years of evaluation.

 

I hope everyone gets access to a more conventional vaccine such as the Oxford, or J and J jab.

 

I would be a bit nervous about the Pfizer vaccine, although perspective is also needed.

[Sheryl]

Reading the article, sounds very, very unlikley to be related to the vaccine.

 

ITP take time to develop and get to the point where there are clinical signs, does not happen in just a few days. And until the platlets dip below a certain level there are no indications at all of ill health (unless the platlet level is checked, which is not something one would often have occasion to do).  He may have only seen petechiae 3 days post vaccine but his platlets would have been declining for months prior.

 

Eating right and exercising etc has nothing whatsoever to do with ITP,

[Sheryl]

13 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

There could be a connection here. It needs investigating.  It's an experimental vaccine that's for sure and ordinarily it would need 5-10 years of evaluation.

 

 

How is a vaccine that fully completed Phase II trials experimental?

 

It is not.

 

 

[DavisH]

Cooincidence. Deaths after thousands of vaccinations will obviously occur and have nothing to do with the vaccine. The causal link between the vaccine and cause of death will need to be demonstrated. 

[eisfeld]

Readers should know that 1. The UK tabloid newspaper linked to is known for sensationalist low quality "journalism" which is reflected in the title seen here. 2. The poster who opened this thread has a history of trying to discredit vaccines 3. There is no evidence that this death was linked to the vaccine and as Sheryl explained there are reasons to believe the death is not related to the vaccine. Either way, it is too early to say what exactly happened.

 

Please be careful when talking about these very sensitive and important topics.

[robblok]

31 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Reading the article, sounds very, very unlikley to be related to the vaccine.

 

ITP take time to develop and get to the point where there are clinical signs, does not happen in just a few days. And until the platlets dip below a certain level there are no indications at all of ill health (unless the platlet level is checked, which is not something one would often have occasion to do).  He may have only seen petechiae 3 days post vaccine but his platlets would have been declining for months prior.

 

Eating right and exercising etc has nothing whatsoever to do with ITP,

Don't let the truth get into the way of a good vaccine bash by the resident anti vaxer.

[Bender Rodriguez]

3 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

2. The poster who opened this thread has a history of trying to discredit vaccines

 

from the CDC site itself (that does not do any vaccine safety testing)

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html

 

also not a valid link I guess

[BritManToo]

32 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Reading the article, sounds very, very unlikley to be related to the vaccine.

 

ITP take time to develop and get to the point where there are clinical signs, does not happen in just a few days. And until the platlets dip below a certain level there are no indications at all of ill health (unless the platlet level is checked, which is not something one would often have occasion to do).  He may have only seen petechiae 3 days post vaccine but his platlets would have been declining for months prior.

 

Eating right and exercising etc has nothing whatsoever to do with ITP,

I once went with my Brit wife for Cholera injections prior to a holiday in Africa.

She passed out within 30 seconds of the vaccine injection, the doctor was in a blind panic as I held her upright in the chair. 

We were both in our early 30s, and that was the last vaccination I ever had (for obvious reasons).

Edited January 8, 2021 by BritManToo

[Bender Rodriguez]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Don't let the truth get into the way of a good vaccine bash by the resident anti vaxer.

 

this is not the first nor last story

 

did I write the article ?

 

seems every death will be - nothing to do with -

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html

 

the above also never happened ?

[robblok]

Just now, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

this is not the first nor last story

 

did I write the article ?

 

seems every death will be - nothing to do with -

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html

 

the above also never happened ?

Sheryll gave a good medical explanation one you can check.  If a death has something to do with it then there should be some proof. This is a disease that develops over time. Not suddenly after a vaccination. 

 

Just that someone for instance gets an heart attack after a vaccination does not mean the two are linked. 

 

There needs to be proof of cause and effect. 

[Bender Rodriguez]

cnn better link for leftists, right ?

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/06/health/coronavirus-vaccine-doctor-death/index.html

 

do they say a clear NO or INVESTIGATING ?

[Bender Rodriguez]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sheryll gave a good medical explanation one you can check.  If a death has something to do with it then there should be some proof. This is a disease that develops over time. Not suddenly after a vaccination. 

 

Just that someone for instance gets an heart attack after a vaccination does not mean the two are linked. 

 

There needs to be proof of cause and effect. 

 

sorry, but Sheryl now is the medical examiner / pathologist for this case?

 

"cause of death pending the completion of studies by the medical examiner and partner agencies"

 

but TV already know the result...

[Bender Rodriguez]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

 

Just that someone for instance gets an heart attack after a vaccination does not mean the two are linked. 

 

 

 

 

you never heard of a cytokine storm, did you ?

 

Cytokine storm and cytokine release syndrome are life-threatening systemic inflammatory syndromes involving elevated levels of circulating cytokines and immune-cell hyperactivation that can be triggered by various therapies, pathogens, cancers, autoimmune conditions, and monogenic disorders

 

 

vaccines artificially (over)stimulate your native immune system

 

but again, no link, for you, but your knowledge is limited to call people names with no background except your religious blind belief 

 

[Bender Rodriguez]

 

So I posted above previous decades of CDC reviews where it went wrong , but that does mean NOTHING, to the blind believers   (met oogkleppen op)

[Bender Rodriguez]

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sheryll gave a good medical explanation one you can check.  If a death has something to do with it then there should be some proof. This is a disease that develops over time. Not suddenly after a vaccination. 

 

Just that someone for instance gets an heart attack after a vaccination does not mean the two are linked. 

 

There needs to be proof of cause and effect. 

 

wrong again

 

In extremely rare cases, the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine has been linked to thrombocytopenia in young children, according to a 2003 study. The condition can also be caused by cancer, anemia, heavy drinking, viruses, some genetic conditions, toxic chemicals and medications such as diuretics and the rarely used antibiotic chloramphenicol.

 

and guess what did he get or died from :    thrombocytopenia

 

Pfizer said in a statement. "It is a highly unusual clinical case of severe thrombocytopenia, a condition that decreases the body's ability to clot blood and stop internal bleeding," it added.

 

 

unusual, but POSSIBLE, but not for you.

 

I use the science that is out there with links that can be checked.

 

Ignorant people call out names to others that don't agree with their narrow vision mindset.

 

for your info, INGORANT is not a bad/swear word

 

lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Bender Rodriguez

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

wrong again

 

In extremely rare cases, the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine has been linked to thrombocytopenia in young children, according to a 2003 study. The condition can also be caused by cancer, anemia, heavy drinking, viruses, some genetic conditions, toxic chemicals and medications such as diuretics and the rarely used antibiotic chloramphenicol.

 

and guess what did he get or died from :    thrombocytopenia

 

Pfizer said in a statement. "It is a highly unusual clinical case of severe thrombocytopenia, a condition that decreases the body's ability to clot blood and stop internal bleeding," it added.

 

 

unusual, but POSSIBLE, but not for you.

 

I use the science that is out there with links that can be checked.

 

Ignorant people call out names to others that don't agree with their narrow vision mindset.

 

for your info, INGORANT is not a bad/swear word

 

lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

 

 

 

"Ignorant people call out names to others that don't agree with their narrow vision mindset."

Yes, and now look in the mirror.

[eisfeld]

21 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

from the CDC site itself (that does not do any vaccine safety testing)

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html

 

also not a valid link I guess

 

Nobody claims vaccines are 100% safe and never can cause any issues. Any medication, operation, treatment etc has potential for adverse effects. But it's a different matter to spread news about a death and attributing it to the vaccine when there is zero evidence. And the site you linked to clearly starts by saying that the positive effects far outweigh the negative ones. It also is much more factual which is good. But what exactly did you want to tell me by linking to it?

 

11 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

cnn better link for leftists, right ?

 

What do political leanings have to do with this topic? I couldn't care less about left vs right. This is a health and science issue. Idealogies and feelings or believes have no place in this.

 

 

The problem is that the article clearly tries to instill fear in the readers. It plays very hard on emotions. And that's what their business model is of course. But a reader needs to understand that this is not reason to be concerned. Millions of people in the US have received the vaccine at this point.

 

Honest and reputable reporting would be more akin to showing a breakdown of the various numbers as to how many people received, the vaccines, how many have shown adverse effects, how many are investigated for serious adverse effects, how many have been cleared etc. Not talking about how "beloved" he was, showing unrelated family pictures and reporting believes.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Honest and reputable reporting would be more akin to showing a breakdown of the various numbers as to how many people received, the vaccines, how many have shown adverse effects, how many are investigated for serious adverse effects, how many have been cleared etc. Not talking about how "beloved" he was, showing unrelated family pictures and reporting believes.

Honest and reputable would involve freely admitting the vaccine likely killed him.

But we all know in our heart of hearts the medical/pharmaceutical industry isn't either honest or reputable, it's all about denying liability and minimising compensation.

Edited January 8, 2021 by BritManToo

[eisfeld]

43 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I once went with my Brit wife for Cholera injections prior to a holiday in Africa.

She passed out within 30 seconds of the vaccine injection, the doctor was in a blind panic as I held her upright in the chair. 

We were both in our early 30s, and that was the last vaccination I ever had (for obvious reasons).

 

I once ate a soup from a street food stall in BKK. Spent the next 2 days with stuff splashing out of me front and back. I was in my 20s and that was the last soup I have ever had (for obvious reasons).

 

Wait, what are the obvious reasons? I'm not seeing any in this anecdotal sample size of 1.

[eisfeld]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Honest and reputable would involve freely admitting the vaccine likely killed him.

But we all know in our heart of hearts the medical/pharmaceutical industry isn't either honest or reputable, it's all about denying liability and minimising compensation.

No, that would be the opposite of honest and reputable if there is no evidence. Honest and reputable behaviour is to investigate and then report. What I know is that the pharma industry is more honest and reputable than the tabloid newspapers whos business model it is to make money out of the misery of others and out of fueling fear and emotional reactions in the population, especially the lower educated and less rational thinking part which is the majority. It's one of the key problems of society and it leads to events like what has unfolded in the US recently.

Edited January 8, 2021 by eisfeld

[sezze]

I knew a post like this will come . So far 2 or 3 people died after being injected with the vaccine . That is 2-3 too much , i agree , but let's put it in perspective . So far more then 17.5 million did get their shot already . That's 1 per 6 million . Now think who does get the most shots at the moment , since it depends a bit from country to country , but most start with elderly homes and people working in healthcare . Those people who are most at risk of having infection and/or having serious effects from Covid in the 1st place .

Now check the numbers from these people death numbers in infection vs the 1 out of 6 millions for a vaccine . A vaccine is 1000's of times more safe then the infection .

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

How is a vaccine that fully completed Phase II trials experimental?

 

It is not.

 

 

 

It is experimental in the sense that it is a new technique that has never been widely used, certainly not in widespread inoculation.  Sorry, Sheryl I must stand my ground here and I think there are plenty of reasonable people that will see my point of view. The conventional vaccines however, we may say are more a known quantity- be they recombinant or attenuated.  Some medicines that have been through phase 2 and 3 trials are later withdrawn.

 

All this being said, I would likely take the Pfizer vaccine, given my profile.

[RJRS1301]

59 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Honest and reputable would involve freely admitting the vaccine likely killed him.

But we all know in our heart of hearts the medical/pharmaceutical industry isn't either honest or reputable, it's all about denying liability and minimising compensation.

That connection has not been made, it will take meticulous scientific medical and pharmocological investigations ( which will be happening not only by the company concerned, but also many government agencies).All do they currently know is his diagnosis, and the fact that he was vaccinated 19 days prior to that. be d does not need at this point to be used to at this stage cause alarm IMO.

Many people are alive today because of big pharma, penecillin being one product often used and it modern derivatives. Many on here would have possibly had it for STIs in years past.

[eisfeld]

34 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

It is experimental in the sense that it is a new technique that has never been widely used, certainly not in widespread inoculation.  Sorry, Sheryl I must stand my ground here and I think there are plenty of reasonable people that will see my point of view. The conventional vaccines however, we may say are more a known quantity- be they recombinant or attenuated.  Some medicines that have been through phase 2 and 3 trials are later withdrawn.

 

All this being said, I would likely take the Pfizer vaccine, given my profile.

 

Experimental means experiments are being conducted to confirm or refute a hypothesis. Those experiments were conducted, they are the different Phases of the medical trials. They are finished and so the vaccines cannot be called experimental. They are new, sure. But not experimental. One could also argue something that has been given to millions of people and growing rapidly could be considered widely used. You are right there are medicines that have been withdrawn but that's rare. So far, I think the numbers are looking very promising.

 

 

[Caldera]

As millions of people are being vaccinated - many of them elderly - it won't be a surprise to see thousands of them die within weeks after receiving their shot(s).

 

That doesn't mean that the vaccine causes their death. People die all the time. I've yet to see any credible report that proves causality.

[248900_1469958220]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Sheryll gave a good medical explanation one you can check.  If a death has something to do with it then there should be some proof. This is a disease that develops over time. Not suddenly after a vaccination. 

 

Just that someone for instance gets an heart attack after a vaccination does not mean the two are linked. 

 

There needs to be proof of cause and effect. 

Ok, but by that logic, someone that gets covid 19, is 85 and dies of a heart attack.....was it Covid that killed them? Was the heart attack a result of having Covid 19? Did they die 'of' Covid or 'with' it? This seems to be a question that isnt that popular at the moment. Are the two REALLY linked? There is debate about this, as there should be. The link can be just as tenuous. I am ok with vaccines and would take one......but I want to hang on a while first. Am I being unreasonable? Asking unreasonable questions?

[eisfeld]

9 minutes ago, 248900_1469958220 said:

Ok, but by that logic, someone that gets covid 19, is 85 and dies of a heart attack.....was it Covid that killed them? Was the heart attack a result of having Covid 19? Did they die 'of' Covid or 'with' it? This seems to be a question that isnt that popular at the moment. Are the two REALLY linked? There is debate about this, as there should be. The link can be just as tenuous. I am ok with vaccines and would take one......but I want to hang on a while first. Am I being unreasonable? Asking unreasonable questions?

 

One can not honestly answer that question. Blanket statements can't be issued as to the reasons of deaths. Each individual case has to be looked into and the cause of death be determined. There can be a leading cause of death and contributing factors. For some it might be death due to Covid19 and for others it might be death due to something totally unrelated while having Covid19. And for others Covid19 might be a contributing factor. Same as being overweight can be the main reason for death for some and just contributing for others. The gist is: "it depends". And it's exactly the same with the case being talked about here: the exact reason why he got the condition that caused his death is unknown at this point. Maybe it was due to the vaccine or maybe it was something totally different and nobody knows anything so far. An investigation needs to be performed. Until then speculation doesn't help.

[248900_1469958220]

18 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

One can not honestly answer that question. Blanket statements can't be issued as to the reasons of deaths. Each individual case has to be looked into and the cause of death be determined. There can be a leading cause of death and contributing factors. For some it might be death due to Covid19 and for others it might be death due to something totally unrelated while having Covid19. And for others Covid19 might be a contributing factor. Same as being overweight can be the main reason for death for some and just contributing for others. The gist is: "it depends". And it's exactly the same with the case being talked about here: the exact reason why he got the condition that caused his death is unknown at this point. Maybe it was due to the vaccine or maybe it was something totally different and nobody knows anything so far. An investigation needs to be performed. Until then speculation doesn't help.

Ok, agreed BUT the media has been complicit in promoting a scare campaign about this virus where blanket statements are commonplace. Merely questioning the vaccine seems to lump one into the  'antivaxxer' category. People are testing positive for this virus and then, if it falls within a certain timeframe, say 20 days they are marked as a 'covid death' seemingly whatever they die of.  To me THAT is also a 'blanket' statement about someones death......can it absolutely be proved? If not, they need to stop peddling the numbers based on such blanket statements.....I am talking media AND govts.