Trump faces calls for removal, possible impeachment after Capitol chaos

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/pence-25th-amendment-congress-pelosi-b1784205.html

 

"In the aftermath of Capitol Hill riot and Donald Trump’s failure to stop the violence, Mike Pence will not support calls for the vice president and members of the cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment of the US Constitution to remove the president from office, according to Business Insider.

 

The publication cites two aides to the vice president who have stressed that there is “no way” that he would participate, as a growing body of lawmakers and officials from across the US demand the president’s removal.

 

His aides are reportedly worried that taking the unprecedented step “could spiral the country even further into chaos and partisan divide” and compromise the vice president’s future political ambitions."

"compromise the vice president’s future political ambitions"

Which is the issue. He can't afford to alienate 30 million or so voters.

 

"taking the unprecedented step “could spiral the country even further into chaos and partisan divide"

He has contributed to that over these 4 years, I don't think he is worried about that now.

[cmarshall]

14 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I have no information to suggest what happened yesterday was as coordinated as you say. I personally wouldn't even call it an attempted coup.

There were delays in bringing in the National Guard but I don't see it, based on available facts, that the delay was broadly coordinated with the aim of an actual coup. I think that's a big overreach if that's what you are saying. 

I think it was another Trump scheme that wasn't well thought through and failed - just like his myriad of voter fraud court cases. The difference, as I have said, is this time he clearly went too far and he has been admonished by all and sundry outside his base. 

I am not saying he won't try and be president again, but just that, even he must see that an actual coup is impossible. Maybe you are overestimating his cunning, forethought and stamina to actually play the longer game to actually plan a coup. Maybe I am overestimating his intelligence.

 

It's worse than delays in bringing the National Guard.  There was a major planning and intelligence failure.  The Capitol police were plainly inadequate to deal with an armed attack by somewhere between a few hundred and ten thousand persons intent on stopping the certification process.  These are guys whose main job is to tell visitors not to touch the paintings.  None of the Capitol police had riot gear.  I don't know if they had pistols, but I didn't see any pictures of them with pistols in their hands.

 

We know that there were meetings of the department heads of Homeland Security, the Capitol police, the FBI, the Metropolitan police, the National Guard, and probably others.  We also know that Trump had replaced the civilian leadership of the DoD after the election by forcing our the former Secretary Esper and replacing him with a stooge, who was not confirmed by the Senate.  The same thing happened in the DoJ when AG Barr quit or was pushed out and replaced by a stooge.  No one could figure out why Trump would make such replacements at the eleventh hour of his administration.  Commentators thought Trump might be planning something nefarious for which he wanted only yes men around.  Others speculated that Barr wanted to dissociate himself from Trump because Trump was about to do something too far over the line for Barr.

 

But everyone knew about the march on the Capitol that was planned and that the marchers were likely to be armed.  One congresswoman wrote out her will that day before going to the Capitol.  Companies with offices in the District urged their employees to stay home that day.  But the agencies responsible for protecting the seat of government were caught flat-footed somehow.  It seems a stretch to put that down 

 

Trump is not the type to plan anything in detail much less a coup attempt, but he is desperate and has been a risk-taker his whole life.  A willingness to take risks is a characteristic of psychopaths.  Remember that he's got Mike Flynn in his ear for weeks telling him to go ahead and declare martial law.  So, I think it's possible that Trump set the mob going figuring it might cause a massacre in the Congress big enough for him to get away with declaring martial law, which would be the first step toward cancelling Biden's inauguration.  You and I wouldn't think that sounded like a good plan, but Trump is a guy whose businesses lost a billion dollars not once, but twice.  The guy overestimates himself and is always willing to take a flier.  And he is desperate.

 

The French Revolution began when a mob was incited to attack the Bastille prison.  They did attack, stormed it successfully, decapitated the prison governor and the French Revolution was off and running.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

3 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

I think you are dreaming if you think that a coup attempt that involved the heads of the security agencies for D.C. deciding in the weeks leading up to Jan. 6 to leave the protection of the Congress to the Capitol police, who lack the manpower and probably the training.  This is how you make an attack succeed, you just quietly withdraw the protection.  Then the recently appointed Trump toady who is acting Secretary of Defense refused to activate the D. C. National Guard.  Then when the Congressional leaders are holed up in a bunker asking the Governor of Maryland can he send some troops to stop the attack, the Acting Secretary of Defense can't be bothered to take the Governor's call and denies him permission to send his forces into D.C.  That is the telltale sign of a coup attempt.  Had the attack resulted in a massacre of senators and congressmen, Trump was ready to declare martial law and "delay" the inauguration.

 

It could still happen.  Trump is just more desperate than he was yesterday.  He hasn't given up.

And in his speech pretending to call for peace he again lied and said he immediately called the national guard which he did not do. Pence reportedly called them. He also lied about election fraud again too. Every time this clown has been forced to backtrack publicly he turns around within a few hours and contradicts himself.. Just wait for it.

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

And in his speech pretending to call for peace he again lied and said he immediately called the national guard which he did not do. Pence reportedly called them. He also lied about election fraud again too. Every time this clown has been forced to backtrack publicly he turns around within a few hours and contradicts himself.. Just wait for it.

This clown is still highly dangerous and even so now when he is forced to a corner with a shrinking circle of aides. He is now isolated and surrounded by a small group of diehard loyalists like Steven Miller, Dan Scavino, John McEntee, Peter Navarro and Rudy Giuliani who are egging him on and giving him bad advise. He still got a long 13 days before he leave office and I shudder to think what damage he can do with his remaining days. Mike Pence and  his cabinet should not take chances with a mentally unstable man still holding power. 

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

I think you are dreaming if you think that a coup attempt that involved the heads of the security agencies for D.C. deciding in the weeks leading up to Jan. 6 to leave the protection of the Congress to the Capitol police, who lack the manpower and probably the training.  This is how you make an attack succeed, you just quietly withdraw the protection.  Then the recently appointed Trump toady who is acting Secretary of Defense refused to activate the D. C. National Guard.  Then when the Congressional leaders are holed up in a bunker asking the Governor of Maryland can he send some troops to stop the attack, the Acting Secretary of Defense can't be bothered to take the Governor's call and denies him permission to send his forces into D.C.  That is the telltale sign of a coup attempt.  Had the attack resulted in a massacre of senators and congressmen, Trump was ready to declare martial law and "delay" the inauguration.

 

It could still happen.  Trump is just more desperate than he was yesterday.  He hasn't given up.

amazing to see how ready (sarcasm) the police and/or security forces were to protect one of the must important places of Democracy..... compared to the quantity of law enforcement ready/available when the BL Matters walk, this is/was a joke and now all security forces blaming one another/each other for the delays

[cmarshall]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

amazing to see how ready (sarcasm) the police and/or security forces were to protect one of the must important places of Democracy..... compared to the quantity of law enforcement ready/available when the BL Matters walk, this is/was a joke and now all security forces blaming one another/each other for the delays

 

Which is why I think that the inadequate defense of the Congress is probably not due to mere incompetence, but represents a deliberate withdrawing of protection orchestrated by the stooges Trump has running the security apparatus in D.C. currently.  

[Opl]

Just now, cmarshall said:

 

Which is why I think that the inadequate defense of the Congress is probably not due to mere incompetence, but represents a deliberate withdrawing of protection orchestrated by the stooges Trump has running the security apparatus in D.C. currently.  

// US Postal service?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

 

It's worse than delays in bringing the National Guard.  There was a major planning and intelligence failure.  The Capitol police were plainly inadequate to deal with an armed attack by somewhere between a few hundred and ten thousand persons intent on stopping the certification process.  These are guys whose main job is to tell visitors not to touch the paintings.  None of the Capitol police had riot gear.  I don't know if they had pistols, but I didn't see any pictures of them with pistols in their hands.

 

We know that there were meetings of the department heads of Homeland Security, the Capitol police, the FBI, the Metropolitan police, the National Guard, and probably others.  We also know that Trump had replaced the civilian leadership of the DoD after the election by forcing our the former Secretary Esper and replacing him with a stooge, who was not confirmed by the Senate.  The same thing happened in the DoJ when AG Barr quit or was pushed out and replaced by a stooge.  No one could figure out why Trump would make such replacements at the eleventh hour of his administration.  Commentators thought Trump might be planning something nefarious for which he wanted only yes men around.  Others speculated that Barr wanted to dissociate himself from Trump because Trump was about to do something too far over the line for Barr.

 

But everyone knew about the march on the Capitol that was planned and that the marchers were likely to be armed.  One congresswoman wrote out her will that day before going to the Capitol.  Companies with offices in the District urged their employees to stay home that day.  But the agencies responsible for protecting the seat of government were caught flat-footed somehow.  It seems a stretch to put that down 

 

Trump is not the type to plan anything in detail much less a coup attempt, but he is desperate and has been a risk-taker his whole life.  A willingness to take risks is a characteristic of psychopaths.  Remember that he's got Mike Flynn in his ear for weeks telling him to go ahead and declare martial law.  So, I think it's possible that Trump set the mob going figuring it might cause a massacre in the Congress big enough for him to get away with declaring martial law, which would be the first step toward cancelling Biden's inauguration.  You and I wouldn't think that sounded like a good plan, but Trump is a guy whose businesses lost a billion dollars not once, but twice.  The guy overestimates himself and is always willing to take a flier.  And he is desperate.

 

The French Revolution began when a mob was incited to attack the Bastille prison.  They did attack, stormed it successfully, decapitated the prison governor and the French Revolution was off and running.

Trump supporters often character his conduct as playing 3 dimensional chess. It's clear that what he's really up to is stirring the pot and hope something happens that he can capitalize on. What's even more clear is that he's desperate.

[malibukid]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

12 days and the man is gone.  Not enough time to even start a trial.  Move on nothing to see here.  Sedition charges maybe for instigating the overthrow by his tweets or statements, again so many cases against the man.  If he was in Thailand he would flee to Dubai and be like the others, out of reach but not of touch with his base.

but enough time to start a war

[Jonnapat]

Sobering thought that 74 million Americans voted for Trump. I dread to think what the world would be like after another 4 years of this.

[Morakot]

Quote

Capitol chaos

 

Reuter's euphemism for an attempted insurrection or coup. ????

[mtls2005]

WSJ calls for trump to resign. 

 

 

Donald Trump’s Final Days

The best outcome would be for him to resign to spare the U.S. another impeachment fight.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-final-days-11610062773

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by mtls2005

[Opl]

Trump could make a deal, resignation / pardon, immunity, whatever 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Opl

[Skeptic7]

This abominable guy should never have been elected. Then he deserved to be removed in the failed impeachment ONLY because the sycophantic Republicans ignored and refused to hear the damning evidence. 

 

Unacceptable that it took a seditious insurrection, orchestrated by Trump, for them to ooze out of Trump's ass and finally speak out. THEY should also step down or be removed for supporting and enabling this dangerous, delusional, madman. Too little and WAY too late. 

[Isaan sailor]

Be prepared for more unrest, unfortunately..  The  forensics of the election did not satisfy most of the 70 million voters.  80 million votes for Joe Biden?  More than Barack Obama?  And guess who has the guns?

Personally, I accept the results of the election. I do however fear for America.

[Jingthing]

47 minutes ago, Opl said:

Trump could make a deal, resignation / pardon, immunity, whatever 

Too late. 

[Psimbo]

Best thing to do is marginalize him as much as possible for the next two weeks and make sure the grownups have control of The Football (scary with Nimitz in the Gulf). No 25, no impeachment, means no pardon at a future date.  'Yes Sir, Mr President' , Sir'- but ignore what he has told them to do and just keep him topped up with Diet Cokes and golf balls.

 

I understand from some sources he's no longer talking to Pence. Transport Secretary as was is also McConnell's wife so interesting things are going on. Ditzy Betsy, the Education Secretary as was is Eric Prince's sister as a matter of interest- 'definitely' not a moonbat!

 

This guy would revel in 'I'm the only President to be impeached twice', best thing with egotists is not to massage that ego. Its getting like the bunker in the last days of Berlin. Stand by for a predictable version of a certain film clip.

 

I still reckon he will not attend Biden's inauguration, and will double down on Melania ditching him within 2 years now she has her family safe as US residents (if not yet citizens).

 

As they said in The Comey Report tv show. 'Be careful of him, he is spiteful, spiteful, spiteful'.

 

He has the blood of 5 more Americans on his hands as of yesterday (notwithstanding the 4k corona victims on the same say)

 

Unfortunately with the vicious atmosphere he will leave in his wake I see a major McVeigh type incident happening within the next two years at the most. He has polarised the US to an extent that will take years, if ever to undo.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Psimbo

[rgraham]

9 hours ago, cmarshall said:

I don't think Trump is going to give up.  I think he is still trying to carry out his coup, now more desperately than yesterday.

The coup has built up from the socialists over the past four years leading to the discontent we are seeing now.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, rgraham said:

The coup has built up from the socialists over the past four years leading to the discontent we are seeing now.

More than 81 million American voters are socialists. The USA is doomed!

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Isaan sailor said:

Be prepared for more unrest, unfortunately..  The  forensics of the election did not satisfy most of the 70 million voters.  80 million votes for Joe Biden?  More than Barack Obama?  And guess who has the guns?

Personally, I accept the results of the election. I do however fear for America.

You may accept them but given silly rhetorical questions like "80 million votes for Joe Biden?  More than Barack Obama?" it's clear you don't believe them. What Trump supporters don't seem to understand is that as great as Trump's power to attract is, his power to repel is even greater.

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Be prepared for more unrest, unfortunately..  The  forensics of the election did not satisfy most of the 70 million voters.  80 million votes for Joe Biden?  More than Barack Obama?  And guess who has the guns?

Personally, I accept the results of the election. I do however fear for America.

 

Quite clearly the usual repub voter suppression failed. Courts tossed out gerrymandering and grass roots groups aided in everything from voter registration to rides to the polls. In Red States the governors usually close most of the polling locations in minority areas, so this time folks made sure voters could get to polls even if across town. Mail in ballots also increased participation. There was also intense hatred for 45, and that brought people out. Finally, the population has grown quite a bit since 2008/12, so higher # of voters is to be expected. Biden won in a massive landslide, the first to ever garner more than 80 million votes. On a percentage basis, 45 did worse than Romney did against Obama..

 

The 'guns' argument is silly. While a lot of right wingers and white supremacists have multiple guns each, it isn't as if they can use them all at the same time. Progressives have become very aggressive buyers of guns since 45 became POTUS, and minority ownership of guns soared. Also, when I look at the terrorists who stormed the capitol on Wednesday, it looks as if they spend a lot more time at the buffet table than the range. Obesity is not an advantage in times of trouble.

[Tug]

2 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Be prepared for more unrest, unfortunately..  The  forensics of the election did not satisfy most of the 70 million voters.  80 million votes for Joe Biden?  More than Barack Obama?  And guess who has the guns?

Personally, I accept the results of the election. I do however fear for America.

It always cracks me up when trump supporters start going on about who has the guns (btw lots of non trump supporters have guns)keep in mind the military has tanks planes ships napalm ect ect it’s no contest if push comes to shove none whatsoever the nutter that was kicking it in the speakers office has been identified he’s a gun nutter from some small town when he’s convinced of felony trespassing (at the least) they are gonna take away all his little boom boom toys lol

[joecoolfrog]

2 hours ago, rgraham said:

The coup has built up from the socialists over the past four years leading to the discontent we are seeing now.

Lol

What socialists , what power did they weald , what discontent exactly did they sow. Accept culpability for goodness sake in supporting and ,incredibly , still defending a despot who is clearly the worst POTUS in living memory.

[shdmn]

5 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Lol

What socialists , what power did they weald , what discontent exactly did they sow. Accept culpability for goodness sake in supporting and ,incredibly , still defending a despot who is clearly the worst POTUS in living memory.

They have a wierd fetish for hating socialism after years of right wing media brainwashing.  In their minds, affordable healthcare is some horrible dystopia to be dreaded.  Like the dystopian socialist horror that is Canada. ????

[Walker88]

Twitter just banned 45 forever, citing 45's inciting of violence.

[J Town]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

The president condemned Wednesday's violence

Yeah . . . no.

[scorecard]

51 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Twitter just banned 45 forever, citing 45's inciting of violence.

I seem to recall fb also just banned him forever. True?

[J Town]

17 hours ago, skorp13 said:

Impeachment? The man has less than 2 weeks lwft in office and you're going to spend how much time and money that those could be sent on your citizens. Really dumb and disgraceful. he already stated a peaceful transfer of power on the 20th

This impeachment could prevent a 2024 run for this traitor. Money well spent in my opinion.

[J Town]

30 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I seem to recall fb also just banned him forever. True?

Facebook/Instagram a temporary ban, still pending decision. Most likely will go for a lifetime ban.

[Jeffr2]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/01/08/mnuching-25th-amendment/

 

Treasury Secretary Mnuchin involved in discussions about the 25th Amendment, but is unlikely to pursue Trump’s removal