Scottish nationalists set for record majority, boosting independence push

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

Of course it has been considered, but of course you cannot trust Westminster to stick by what it said in 2012.

 

Independence will recognise the distinct political identities of Scotland and the rest of the UK, and allow us to work together in a more democratic environment with a renewed partnership as close allies and friends. Scotland's future relationship with the UK will be as rich and close as the UK's relationship with Ireland, which was described by the British and Irish governments in 2012 in these terms:

The relationship between our two countries has never been stronger or more settled, as complex or as important as it is today. Our citizens, uniquely linked by geography and history, are connected today as never before through business, politics, culture and sport, travel and technology and, of course, family ties. Our two economies benefit from a flow of people, goods, investment, capital and ideas on a scale that is rare even in this era of global economic integration

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scotlands-future/pages/10/

I think you,ll find thet cozy prophesie will go out the window in the unlikely event of scotland gaining its independance and applying to join the eu.

[stevenl]

11 hours ago, katatonic said:

How democratic will it be it they win and leave the Union: when do you think they'll have another referendum after then? A lot of people will want one when they get their tax bill, if they haven't bought a house over the border first, like a lot of people I know have, just in case.
 

Sounds like you're questioning how democratic the decision to leave the EU was. Exactly the same situation.

[transam]

15 hours ago, Sujo said:

Sounds like the EU. But they didn't tell the UK they couldn't have a vote on leaving.

But England refuses to even let Scotland vote on it. England telling Scotland that it has no right to determine its own future does not make for a United Kingdom.

Scotland had their vote in 2014, the same as the UK did on Brexit in2016. You know the outcome on both.

 

England refuses nothing, the UK government makes the decisions.

 

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, Hi from France said:

First minister says she will hold advisory referendum, whether Westminster consents or not

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/24/scotland-independence-referendum-nicola-sturgeon-snp-wins-may-

 

"advisory" good move 

 

 

 

 

The Brexit referendum was supposed to be only "advisory" and look how well that went.

[transam]

16 hours ago, Sujo said:

And it shouldn't be your decision on what another country can do. Just as the EU had no say in whether you stay or leave.

 

 

The United Kingdom joined the EU, the United Kingdom left the EU.

Scotland had their vote on leaving the UK, they voted for security, not shield bashing.

I find it odd you don't understand simple facts...????

[hotandsticky]

10 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

 

The Brexit referendum was supposed to be only "advisory" and look how well that went.

 

 

Not according to David Cameron.

[youreavinalaff]

15 hours ago, stevenl said:

 Exactly the same situation.

You are correct. It was a Scottish woman who tried to, totally undemocratically, decide that the EU referendum meant nothing and that she should go against it just because she did not like the result. 

 

In addition a SNP spokesperson said "There is now a real opportunity to stop Brexit and that’s why the SNP is calling on MPs to vote with us to revoke Article 50, and call a halt to the Brexit process, or at least hold a second EU referendum, with Remain on the ballot paper."

 

Deja vu.

Edited January 25, 2021 by youreavinalaff

[soalbundy]

If the crossdressers go then an English referendum to rejoin the EU can't be far behind. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Not according to David Cameron.

And Donald Trump is still POTUS (according to Donald Trump). 

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, kingdong said:

I think you,ll find thet cozy prophesie will go out the window in the unlikely event of scotland gaining its independance and applying to join the eu.

Like many, you assume to much. I only quoted a pece of text tha showed you were wrong to say it had not been considered.

Also like many others you want to jump the gun, although certain paths have been voiced nothing is set in stone, the only focus at the moment is laying the path to the referendum.

The outcome of that will be influenced to great extent by what is published in the white paper, unlike brexit the vote will not be blind.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, transam said:

The United Kingdom joined the EU, the United Kingdom left the EU.

Scotland had their vote on leaving the UK, they voted for security, not shield bashing.

I find it odd you don't understand simple facts...????

The brexit brigade are the most vocal, trying to convince themselves that the issue was put to bed in 2014. Time they woke up and realised there is only one way to end the debate.

Problem is, as they are brexiteers they find it hard to accept the warnings could have been right and they do not want to be held responsible.

From Dec 2015.

 

In Mr Hague's article he warned that if the UK did vote to leave the EU he believed Scottish nationalists would "jump at the chance" to re-open the independence debate, and "the result of it could well be too close to call".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35165720

[Sujo]

5 hours ago, transam said:

The United Kingdom joined the EU, the United Kingdom left the EU.

Scotland had their vote on leaving the UK, they voted for security, not shield bashing.

I find it odd you don't understand simple facts...????

What i do find odd is scotland being told that it cannot decide what it wants, whenever it wants.

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The brexit brigade are the most vocal, trying to convince themselves that the issue was put to bed in 2014. Time they woke up and realised there is only one way to end the debate.

Problem is, as they are brexiteers they find it hard to accept the warnings could have been right and they do not want to be held responsible.

From Dec 2015.

And why do you think that the "Brexit brigade" are the most vocal, could it have something to do with their belief in democracy. The country was not interested in "the warnings," it was more interested in what was best for the United Kingdom and not the desires of the Nationalists in Scotland.

The debate has ended, it ended in 2014 when the Scots voted to remain, you do know that you don't have to be a Nationalist to be a Scot don't you Sandy?

 

[youreavinalaff]

9 minutes ago, Sujo said:

What i do find odd is scotland being told that it cannot decide what it wants, whenever it wants.

It did decide. That is the point. Referendums are not designed to be used at a whim. 

[Sujo]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

It did decide. That is the point. Referendums are not designed to be used at a whim. 

When there is a major occurrence that completely changes the circumstances then it is not on a whim.

[NanLaew]

On 1/24/2021 at 1:15 PM, RuamRudy said:

The one factor that I find does seem to be a major factor in the support for independence is how strongly one believes that WATP. The more blue the nose, the more dyed in the wool unionist they tend to be.

 

Is that you spikkin' in tongues again?

[NanLaew]

28 minutes ago, Sujo said:

What i do find odd is scotland being told that it cannot decide what it wants, whenever it wants.

 

It's in the small print, same same as a car rental agreement.

[NanLaew]

18 minutes ago, Sujo said:

When there is a major occurrence that completely changes the circumstances then it is not on a whim.

 

Oooohhh, never heard that one before.

 

Please stay on the line. The strawmen will be with you presently.

Edited January 25, 2021 by NanLaew

[youreavinalaff]

22 minutes ago, Sujo said:

When there is a major occurrence that completely changes the circumstances then it is not on a whim.

The Scots weren't really asking for independence anyway, were they?

 

"Scotland would keep the Queen as head of state, use the pound, still watch the BBC, share open borders, energy policy and seamless trade with the rest of the UK" 

 

Without the pound, which UK have already confirmed could not be used in an independent Scotland, EU membership would be a must. Oh dear, more problems.

 

"The EU is likely to demand that Scotland loses the UK rebate and UK opt-outs on VAT and working hours. It would need to negotiate a share of North Sea oil, its share of the UK’s debt and a deal to set up an independent welfare state and tax system."

 

It was estimated that it would take at least 6 years to set this up.

 

Doesn't look good, does it?

[RuamRudy]

49 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The Scots weren't really asking for independence anyway, were they?

 

"Scotland would keep the Queen as head of state, use the pound, still watch the BBC, share open borders, energy policy and seamless trade with the rest of the UK" 

 

Without the pound, which UK have already confirmed could not be used in an independent Scotland, EU membership would be a must. Oh dear, more problems.

 

"The EU is likely to demand that Scotland loses the UK rebate and UK opt-outs on VAT and working hours. It would need to negotiate a share of North Sea oil, its share of the UK’s debt and a deal to set up an independent welfare state and tax system."

 

It was estimated that it would take at least 6 years to set this up.

 

Doesn't look good, does it?

 

Looks nonsense to me. 

[youreavinalaff]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Looks nonsense to me. 

You'll have to speak to SNP about that. It is them who I quoted.

[RuamRudy]

57 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

You'll have to speak to SNP about that. It is them who I quoted.

 

Can you provide links please? That's the normal protocol. 

[youreavinalaff]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Can you provide links please? That's the normal protocol. 

I'm sure you are savvy enough to give Google a go. I guess you would rather not as it would upset you.

[RuamRudy]

Happy Burns night to one and all. Unfortunately no haggis or whisky for me tonight - but I can still enjoy his words. 

 

Sic A Parcel of Rogues

 

 

[RuamRudy]

41 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I'm sure you are savvy enough to give Google a go. I guess you would rather not as it would upset you.

 

I asked you to follow forum rules. Is that beyond you? Or are you posting fake news? 

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I asked you to follow forum rules. Is that beyond you? Or are you posting fake news? 

I am not aware that there are forum rules stating that links must be provided to prove something to a non believer. Why make things up. Next you'll be telling us that Scottish people voted to leave UK. 

 

Just to point you in the right direction, it was Mr Salmond that I quoted in my first line in of "".

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I am not aware that there are forum rules stating that links must be provided to prove something to a non believer. Why make things up. Next you'll be telling us that Scottish people voted to leave UK. 

 

Just to point you in the right direction, it was Mr Salmond that I quoted in my first line in of "".

 

Links must be provided to believers and non believers both. I suggest you acquaint yourself with forum rules. 

[youreavinalaff]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Links must be provided to believers and non believers both. I suggest you acquaint yourself with forum rules. 

OK. Done that. Now what? Can't find anything about how I must provide a link.

 

Also, the SNP's Growth Commission, May 2108, also states that Scotland would use the pound for "at least 10 years after independence". Oh dear, the UK government have already said this would not be possible. 

[RuamRudy]

17 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

OK. Done that. Now what? Can't find anything about how I must provide a link.

 

Also, the SNP's Growth Commission, May 2108, also states that Scotland would use the pound for "at least 10 years after independence". Oh dear, the UK government have already said this would not be possible. 

 

How is that not possible? Short of someone physically removing all UK pounds from the pockets of Scots, there is no way that they can prevent it being used. After all, it is as much a Scottish currency as an rUK one. 

 

But for the 60 odd other countries which realised that independence from the UK is preferable, currency has not been an issue. I am not overly concerned either. 

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

How is that not possible? Short of someone physically removing all UK pounds from the pockets of Scots, there is no way that they can prevent it being used. After all, it is as much a Scottish currency as an rUK one. 

 

But for the 60 odd other countries which realised that independence from the UK is preferable, currency has not been an issue. I am not overly concerned either. 

Leave means leave. Remember that one? Why would Scotland wish to have independence only to use a currency that is controlled by the union they have just left?