Should tbere be legalised casinos in Pattaya?

[kingdong]

30 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

It's a complete impossibility, it'll never happen.

 

Pls explain why it has not happened in the last 40 years, thank you.

 

 

In the last 40 years china has had an industrial revoulution and is a far richer country now than 40 years ago the thai government will bend over backwoods for the. Foreign investment,not that any of this will benefit the local thais.

[kinyara]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Good reply.

 

Yes, I was talking about expats, and I was playing devils advocate. 

 

However, as expats here, don't we enjoy all the things that tourists come here to enjoy, because it's on our door step? 

 

Don't we go into Central Pattaya and enjoy the multitude of restaurants, bars, and entertainment?  I know I do. 

 

The variety of cuisines here is one of my favourite things about Pattaya, also the live music. 

 

Aren't we now experiencing what Pattaya would look like without western tourists?  Notice I said western tourists, not tourists in general. 

 

Let's imagine casinos are allowed here.  A Chinese conglomerate could eye off Soi LK Metro, for example, to turn into a little China Town.  They will buy it all.  Wontons, red lanterns, and Tsingtao beer everywhere.  No place for westerners.

 

Sure, existing owners may relocate, but where, and will the tourists go there, will the expats go there, and what will the prices be? 

 

LK Metro took a lot of business away from Walking Street because it was cheaper rent, therefore a cheaper place for the same product, be it alcohol and / or girls.  Would there be an LK Metro development on The  Dark Side, for the same reason?

 

Some posters have alluded to "casinos will not change anything for me here."  I disagree.  Casinos will change a lot, and not just the price of beer. 

 

Tesco, Makro, Lotus, Big C, what if the shift of products on the shelf is to Chinese products?  Farang products go up even more, whilst their availability becomes harder. 

 

Many may think it will never happen, and it might not, but currently the "big guy" and you know who I mean, hasn't got a lot to lose, has he?  As for the "second big guy" we all know his allegiance is to China.   

 

We are talking about billions of dollars, not baht, dollars.  

 

The Chinese will insist on using Chinese labour for construction, not Burmese or Khmer labourers, as they did in Sihanoukville, and we all know the Thai's won't do the hard labour.   So now there's thousands of working Chinese expats here. then again T21 could easily be converted. 

 

It's not an impossibility that Pattaya could head in a similar direction to Sihanoukville, albeit it, not to such a degree, but even a regular Chinese gambler will drop more in 1 hour than a western tourists would for the whole night, buying lady drinks, paying a bar fine, and paying the girl.  

Relating it back to the thread title, not sure whether they will be legalised or not, but if they are I simply don't think it will be at a level that makes comparisons to Sihanoukville in any way realistic. I think it's more valid and realistic to be concerned about the continued growth of Chinese mass tourism to Pattaya pre-covid without casinos, which is the scenario we will actually be facing. It's not about cost of living but quality of living. 

[Leaver]

50 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

It's a complete impossibility, it'll never happen.

 

Pls explain why it has not happened in the last 40 years, thank you.

 

 

 

It's already happening here.  There's illegal casinos here, and electronic gaming devices here.  Nest step is to simple legalize gambling.  

 

So you judge the future by the past 40 years.  How's that work?

 

They now have medical cannabis here, in a country that executes people for drug trafficking.   Who would have thought?  ????  

[Leaver]

36 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Relating it back to the thread title, not sure whether they will be legalised or not, but if they are I simply don't think it will be at a level that makes comparisons to Sihanoukville in any way realistic. I think it's more valid and realistic to be concerned about the continued growth of Chinese mass tourism to Pattaya pre-covid without casinos, which is the scenario we will actually be facing. It's not about cost of living but quality of living. 

 

Allow me to clarify.  

 

Pattaya is a city, Sihanoukville was a town.  the populations and land area are very different between the two.

 

This is why I mentioned the Central  Pattaya area.  They only have to be allowed to have a few casinos in Central Pattaya, and the whole of Central Pattaya's dynamic changes, and as I said, as expats, don't we all enjoy what Central Pattaya offers the tourists, because it's on our door step?

 

I never suggested expats would be forced out of Pattaya in the same way they were in Sihanoukville, although there would be an effect on the property market, it's just that Central Pattaya would change, and change dramatically.  This was mostly in response to some members that believed if casinos were allowed here, it would have NO effect on them at all.  

 

If you think mass Chinese tourism makes the place uncomfortable, just imagine mass Chinese tourism, plus mass Chinese gambling tourism. That's the big money, and that's when the serious Chinese conglomerates come in and buy up a whole Soi, for example.     

 

Just look at who is in power here, and their lack of consideration for their citizens, their hungry citizens. Do you think they care about public opinion when they have stacked the election numbers anyway? 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Leaver

[champers]

The casinos will be on 2nd Road, between Klang and Dolphin Circus where there are huge swathes of land ripe for development. I don't believe the Chinese will have free rein to go it alone because big and influential Thai corporations; and their friends in Government; will demand a share of the spoils and Thais already own the land.

Partnering will be the way to go with profits shared amongst Thais and Chinese. The Yanks may get a look in too, like they have in Macao. Thais like to keep friends in both places.

[ross163103]

I could tell you numerous stories of Thai women with gambling problems that have lost everything, so no, I don't think it's a good idea. All it would do is put a little money into the govt coffers and a LOT into some pockets to fund new lavish lifestyles, houses, new Mercedes, watches, etc for the elite that own the casinos. I can't see any benefit for the average Thai person.

This subject comes up every few years and never comes to fruition, hopefully it'll go away again.

[ross163103]

When I first visited Sihanoukvile years ago it was a quaint little fishing village, now it's gone the direction of the attached photo.

I guess it depends on your point of view whether this is a good thing or not. Average Cambodian, probably not as a good portion of the money goes to the chinese owners, if you're the owner/developer of one of these monstrosities, probably great from your point of view. People need to realize the chinese are doing things for the chinese under the guise of improving the local economy.  There's over 100 casinos in Sihanoukville, as of Dec 2019.

 

A quote from an unamed news source: Once a sleepy, entrancing seaside resort in southwest Cambodia, Sihanoukville is sleepy again, bereft of Chinese nationals and tourists who have left following the closure of dozens of casinos in the city. This was a result of a government ban on all online and arcade gambling operations in the kingdom, which came into effect in January. 

 

Be careful who you get into bed with.

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Many others would do the same. 

 

Not saying you are, jacko, but many are trapped here, because of property ownership.  

I know a few who definitely are, and many who have properties up for sale. It all looked so rosy a decade ago.....

[HashBrownHarry]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

It's already happening here.  There's illegal casinos here, and electronic gaming devices here.  Nest step is to simple legalize gambling.  

 

So you judge the future by the past 40 years.  How's that work?

 

They now have medical cannabis here, in a country that executes people for drug trafficking.   Who would have thought?  ????  

Where are the Chinese building casino's in Pattaya, i must have missed that.

 

The 'illegal casino's' you mention, is that the Hi-Lo mats where they play for 20 baht? Chinese will love that - lol.

 

You're right about the medical cannabis tho, you'd have never thought that,,.,.

[HashBrownHarry]

10 hours ago, kingdong said:

In the last 40 years china has had an industrial revoulution and is a far richer country now than 40 years ago the thai government will bend over backwoods for the. Foreign investment,not that any of this will benefit the local thais.

So would you not have expected the wheels to be in motion were it going to happen?

 

The government has certainly pushed Chinese tourism but yet to see any signs of casino's, only talk. talk and more talk.

 

IMO - won't happen.

 

If it were going to have happened Thaksin would have got the ball rolling you'd have thought..

[Leaver]

22 hours ago, ross163103 said:

I could tell you numerous stories of Thai women with gambling problems that have lost everything, so no, I don't think it's a good idea. All it would do is put a little money into the govt coffers and a LOT into some pockets to fund new lavish lifestyles, houses, new Mercedes, watches, etc for the elite that own the casinos. I can't see any benefit for the average Thai person.

This subject comes up every few years and never comes to fruition, hopefully it'll go away again.

 

Haven't you contradicted yourself in your post?

 

You have said Thai women with gambling problems who have lost everything, so it's not a good idea, yet, there's already gambling here, and that's how they lost everything, but you think it's not a good idea to have gambling here.

 

Would you rather the proceeds of gambling go to criminals and corrupt police, or to the the Thai tax payer, in the form of better schools, medical, roads etc?   

 

The Vietnam model seems to work well.  There is an entrance fee for Vietnamese that can afford to pay it, and pass through a few other hoops.  End result, little to no Vietnamese in the casinos there, and big foreign money going down on the tables.  

 

You are trying to protect the Thai women losing her money to the Thai mafia, whilst denying the non gambling Thai tax payers of billions of dollars of profits from foreign gamblers.   

 

Maybe time to take care of the majority, because the minority will still gamble illegally here anyway.   

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, ross163103 said:

This was a result of a government ban on all online and arcade gambling operations in the kingdom, which came into effect in January. 

 

Not sure what they mean by "arcade gambling"  but the "online gambling" was happening in illegal casinos. 

 

The Chinese would rent a house off local Khmer people, for big money.  Set up lighting, tables, internet webcams, and have staff.  Live card games were played, online, be it with Skype, LINE, WeChat, whatever.  Players would gamble from China, online.  Payments were made via WeChat Pay. 

 

There were more illegal casinos (houses) than legal casinos.    

 

 

[Leaver]

16 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I know a few who definitely are, and many who have properties up for sale. It all looked so rosy a decade ago.....

 

I know a few also. 

 

Their property had been on the market for a long time, pre covid.  No takers.  They just wanted out.  They lowered the price on several occasions, no result. 

 

If they were stuck here pre covid, they are even more stuck her now.

[Moo 2]

Years ago Thaksin proposed to open Casinos in bigger cities and resorts. His excuse was that instead of Thai money going to Hong Kong, Singapore, Macau, Cambodia, etc...that money should be better spent in Thailand.

Of course that was refused, they don't like people that are too much ahead of their time in Thailand! 

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, Moo 2 said:

His excuse was that instead of Thai money going to Hong Kong, Singapore, Macau, Cambodia, etc...that money should be better spent in Thailand.

Forty billion baht per year and that is actually to neighbouring countries....  although I personally am not a fan of casino gambling. 

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Forty billion baht per year and that is actually to neighbouring countries....  although I personally am not a fan of casino gambling. 

 

It's not only "going" to neighbouring countries, a lot of it leaves the Thai economy because it's wealthy Thai's gambling in neighbouring countries.  Basically, a lose lose for the Thai taxpayer. 

[ross163103]

On 1/23/2021 at 8:47 AM, Leaver said:

Would you rather the proceeds of gambling go to criminals and corrupt police, or to the the Thai tax payer, in the form of better schools, medical, roads etc? 

I've lived in Thailand for 25+ years, am married to a Thai and have lots of Thai friends both poor and some well off. In all those years I haven't seen much of those better schools, roads, etc come to the to the Thai taxpayer. The rich and political elite always end up better off when something such as gambling comes along. The trickle down effect doesn't happen in Thailand. 

[Leaver]

On 1/29/2021 at 11:23 PM, ross163103 said:

I've lived in Thailand for 25+ years, am married to a Thai and have lots of Thai friends

 

So????

 

On 1/29/2021 at 11:23 PM, ross163103 said:

The rich and political elite always end up better off when something such as gambling comes along. 

 

Gambling is already here.  Has been for decades.  

 

The difference would be at least the Thai tax payers MAY see some benefits from the revenue, rather than all the revenue going to criminals and the corrupt, which is currently the situation. 

 

On 1/29/2021 at 11:23 PM, ross163103 said:

The trickle down effect doesn't happen in Thailand. 

 

I agree, but I am sure those in power would "sell" the virtues of casinos here by having a few photo op's with a new hospital or school, which is more than would would have been built with the current system of gambling in Thailand.   

[ross163103]

On 2/5/2021 at 2:55 AM, Leaver said:

So????

Just mentioned that fact so that people wouldn't think I was a 2 week tourist with little or no experience with Thai society, I have a few years experience with Thais in Thailand.

 

On 2/5/2021 at 2:55 AM, Leaver said:

Gambling is already here.  Has been for decades.

I meant legalized gambling, guess you didn't understand the reference to that, which is what the article is about. I know underground gambling is alive and well in Thailand.

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

No need! The illegal ones seems to work fine and be in abundance.

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

Just mentioned that fact so that people wouldn't think I was a 2 week tourist with little or no experience with Thai society, I have a few years experience with Thais in Thailand.

 

I know guys that have lived here for years and are part of the "I get the missus to do it" brigade, and are lead by the nose by the Thai missus for everything.

 

They may have lived here for years, but have very little experience.  

 

Thus, the amount of years living here is irrelevant.  

 

7 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

I meant legalized gambling, guess you didn't understand the reference to that, which is what the article is about. I know underground gambling is alive and well in Thailand.

 

So if illegal (underground) gambling is alive and well in Thailand, why do you advocate keeping it that way?  

 

Why not legalize it, control entry, offer harm minimization, and let profits benefit the Thai tax payer?  

 

Currently, gambling in Thailand only benefits criminals and the corrupt.  Why do you prefer that over legalization?  

[HashBrownHarry]

On 2/5/2021 at 4:55 PM, Leaver said:

 

So????

 

 

Gambling is already here.  Has been for decades.  

 

The difference would be at least the Thai tax payers MAY see some benefits from the revenue, rather than all the revenue going to criminals and the corrupt, which is currently the situation. 

 

 

I agree, but I am sure those in power would "sell" the virtues of casinos here by having a few photo op's with a new hospital or school, which is more than would would have been built with the current system of gambling in Thailand.   

What benefits would the thai tax payers see, pls enlighten me....

[HashBrownHarry]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I know guys that have lived here for years and are part of the "I get the missus to do it" brigade, and are lead by the nose by the Thai missus for everything.

 

They may have lived here for years, but have very little experience.  

 

Thus, the amount of years living here is irrelevant.  

 

 

So if illegal (underground) gambling is alive and well in Thailand, why do you advocate keeping it that way?  

 

Why not legalize it, control entry, offer harm minimization, and let profits benefit the Thai tax payer?  

 

Currently, gambling in Thailand only benefits criminals and the corrupt.  Why do you prefer that over legalization?  

You also have very little experience based on only ever being on Soi Bukhow and surrounding SH areas.

 

How would the tax payers benefit?

[Leaver]

11 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

What benefits would the thai tax payers see, pls enlighten me....

 

Revenueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

Which pays for better medical, education etc.

 

That's foreign gambling money coming to Thailand.  More lucrative than lady drinks and bar fines.  

[HashBrownHarry]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

Revenueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

Which pays for better medical, education etc.

 

That's foreign gambling money coming to Thailand.  More lucrative than lady drinks and bar fines.  

So, let me understand this,.......

 

You suggest that if casino's appear in Pattaya the medical and education systems in thailand will improve?

 

Are you serious or are you pulling my chain?

[Leaver]

15 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

You also have very little experience based on only ever being on Soi Bukhow and surrounding SH areas.

 

How would the tax payers benefit?

 

I an quiet sure I have travelled Thailand, South East Asia, and the globe, way more than you, Harry.  You've probably never even done a visa run.

 

I have answered your question in another post.  

 

As you lack understanding, I'll speak in simple terms for you.  With casinos, the house always wins.  Implemented and managed correctly, the Thai government would profit, therefore the Thai tax payer reaps the rewards of legalized gambling in Thailand.  

 

NOTE: I am suggesting a similar model to that of Vietnam.  Basically, only foreigners and Thai's that can prove income are allowed into the casinos.  

[HashBrownHarry]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I an quiet sure I have travelled Thailand, South East Asia, and the globe, way more than you, Harry.  You've probably never even done a visa run.

 

I have answered your question in another post.  

 

As you lack understanding, I'll speak in simple terms for you.  With casinos, the house always wins.  Implemented and managed correctly, the Thai government would profit, therefore the Thai tax payer reaps the rewards of legalized gambling in Thailand.  

 

NOTE: I am suggesting a similar model to that of Vietnam.  Basically, only foreigners and Thai's that can prove income are allowed into the casinos.  

Paragraph #1 - i'm sure you have n't travelled more than me ( but a mute point ) and also FYI, i don't need to do visa runs.

 

Paragraph #2 - what have you answered?

 

Paragraph #3 - 3rd sentence........ not realistic, you should know that by now, no?

 

Paragraph #4 - Give the PM a call, i'm sure he'd be interested to hear from you - lol. ( have you ever been to Vietnam )?

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

So, let me understand this,.......

 

You suggest that if casino's appear in Pattaya the medical and education systems in thailand will improve?

 

Are you serious or are you pulling my chain?

 

It's called revenue from gambling profits.  

 

Yes, difficult for you to comprehend, despite many countries around the world profiting from gambling revenue.  I guess those countries are pulling their citizen's chain's as well.

 

Currently, we even have Thai's crossing borders to gamble outside their own economy.  Ridiculous.  

 

 

[HashBrownHarry]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

It's called revenue from gambling profits.  

 

Yes, difficult for you to comprehend, despite many countries around the world profiting from gambling revenue.  I guess those countries are pulling their citizen's chain's as well.

 

Currently, we even have Thai's crossing borders to gamble outside their own economy.  Ridiculous.  

 

 

Sorry, i'm still trying to peel myself off the floor from laughing that you think medical and education would improve here due to the introduction of casino's.......comedy gold.

 

You've had some cracking comments but this is amongst the best yet, pls keep them coming.......

 

PMSL.

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

i'm sure you have n't travelled more than me

 

I am sure I have. 

 

Everything from "tubing" in Vang Vieng - Laos, to Full Moon Parties on Koh Pha-ngan.  Have you done either of these, Harry?

 

9 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Give the PM a call, i'm sure he'd be interested to hear from you - lol. ( have you ever been to Vietnam )?

 

Many times.

 

I have friends that have already left Thailand for Vietnam.  

 

I have stated on this forum Vietnam is my "Plan B."  I guess your Plan B is the village.