And then there's the issue of gaslighting. Qanon supporters were claiming that Trump was waging a secret war against pedophile Democrates who killed children in order to consume a life-prolonging substance called adrenochrome. That an internet furniture company was really referring to children who were to be delivered for sexual abuse. When Trump was challenged about not speaking out against this nonsense, he replied:

“Let me just tell you what I do hear about it is they are very strongly against pedophilia and I agree with that,” Trump said during NBC's town hall event Thursday. “And I agree with it very strongly.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2020/10/15/trump-believes-qanon-claim-fighting-pedophiles/3673377001/

 

There is significant evidence that Trump was attempting to overturn the election. So many lying tweets about voter fraud and other election nonsense, phone calls to Georgia, likely attempt to replace Attorney General, his words and others words at the rally e.g. 'we will never give up we will never concede' 'If you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore' 'trial by combat' , his inaction when violence started.  

To dismiss those that say Trump was attempting to overturn the election as having 'troubled minds' is a cheap easy shot so common with Trump supporters. 

 

1 minute ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

There is significant evidence that Trump was attempting to overturn the election. So many lying tweets about voter fraud and other election nonsense, phone calls to Georgia, likely attempt to replace Attorney General, his words and others words at the rally e.g. 'we will never give up we will never concede' 'If you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore' 'trial by combat' , his inaction when violence started.  

To dismiss those that say Trump was attempting to overturn the election as having 'troubled minds' is a cheap easy shot so common with Trump supporters. 

 

In the interests of accuracy (not that we get much, if any, from the Trumpists, "Trial by Combat" was Guilliani, jnot Trump.  Trump was merely watching and listening and not stopping him, or Don Jr.  Real Leadership!  And then he sat and (allegedly) watched on TV as those he had stoked up - but not instructed mind you) stormed the Capitol.

 

Not even a finger lifted to stop them doing what he had had NOT told them to do....and not a thought for the safety of his own VP.

 

PH

52 minutes ago, bob999999 said:

Fake News.   Trump invented that saying.  Dont you know what Fake News is??

 

Several days before the protests the Capitol Police/Security were offered National Guard support - they rejected that offer.

That is why the Chief resigned after what happened.

First:  I did not use the term Fake News.  You did.

 

Second:  I know what Fake News used to mean, and that Trump appropriated the term and defined it as any news he didn't like.  Trump did not invent the term.

 

Third:  The Capitol police made a huge mistake in not accepting the offer of National Guard support in advance.  That does not change the fact that once it was clear that such support was urgently needed, Trump didn't authorize it.

1 minute ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

There is significant evidence that Trump was attempting to overturn the election. So many lying tweets about voter fraud and other election nonsense, phone calls to Georgia, likely attempt to replace Attorney General, his words and others words at the rally e.g. 'we will never give up we will never concede' 'If you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore' 'trial by combat' , his inaction when violence started.  

To dismiss those that say Trump was attempting to overturn the election as having 'troubled minds' is a cheap easy shot so common with Trump supporters. 

 

"Trump was attempting to overturn the election"  

Trump was trying to 'challenge' the election results - by all legal means - including supporters protests.

He has every legal right to do that, and to not concede, and to never give up.

 

Do you have proof of your allegations?

What proof did the Dens in the House provide?

 

 

1 hour ago, bob999999 said:

You have proven video evidence that Trump told anyone to do that ??

 

I am certain that Biden/Pelosi etc did not tell anyone to kill a Trump supporter.

And I would not make that false claim.  But why do you think it is OK for you to make such a claim??

 

 

Trump was responsible for bringing the mob to Washington.  Trump was responsible for inciting them and pointing them to the Capitol building.  Trump is responsible for what the mob did.

 

38 minutes ago, nausea said:

Ask yourself this question, what perecentage of the vote do you think Trump would've got, if mainstream media was for him rather than against him, claims of voter fraud aside. The opposition wasn't exactly scintillating. A second question, you really think mainstream media doesn't have an agenda? 

You mean if mainstream media hadn't pointed out obvious lies, such as Trump's claims on day one that millions of illegals had voted for Hillary and he had the largest inaugural crowd ever?  I don't know, I suppose if the press had declined to do its job Trump might have done better.

 

Ask yourself this question, what percentage of the vote do you think Trump would've got if Faux News and other right wing media sources had not been unabashed Trump promoters?

 

BTW:  You still haven't pointed out what legitimate concerns of Trump supporters there are that mainstream media has failed to identify.  It seems like you are avoiding the point that you raised.

26 minutes ago, bob999999 said:

Rubbish.

Anti establishment (swamp) and pro-Amercia (Maga) got Trump elected in 2016.

Covid and the Media is why Trump lost in 2020.

China ascendant and America in decline under Trump, completely botched pandemic response, greatly expanded swamp, the never fulfilled promise that a wonderful replacement for the Affordable Care Act was only weeks away for four years, and many other reasons are why Trump lost in 2020. 

6 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

In the interests of accuracy (not that we get much, if any, from the Trumpists, "Trial by Combat" was Guilliani, jnot Trump.  Trump was merely watching and listening and not stopping him, or Don Jr.  Real Leadership!  And then he sat and (allegedly) watched on TV as those he had stoked up - but not instructed mind you) stormed the Capitol.

 

Not even a finger lifted to stop them doing what he had had NOT told them to do....and not a thought for the safety of his own VP.

 

PH

I did say his words and others words. Concur with the other  points though.

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

China ascendant and America in decline under Trump, completely botched pandemic response, greatly expanded swamp, the never fulfilled promise that a wonderful replacement for the Affordable Care Act was only weeks away for four years, and many other reasons are why Trump lost in 2020. 

At least he fulfilled his trillion dollar infrastructure promise...oh wait. His one big legislative tax achievement was the tax cut bill which made sure that cuts for the rich wouldn't expire while leaving those for everyone else vulnerable.

37 minutes ago, bob999999 said:

"Trump was attempting to overturn the election"  

Trump was trying to 'challenge' the election results - by all legal means - including supporters protests.

He has every legal right to do that, and to not concede, and to never give up.

 

Do you have proof of your allegations?

What proof did the Dens in the House provide?

 

 

 

I said that there is significant evidence and I think there is - that doesn't mean that there is undeniable 100 per cent proof. You don't need to argue in extremes.

 

It can be proven, and it was known at the time, that many of his tweets and claims about the election were outright lies. If you believe he thought they were true or that they in fact are true that's up to you. That to me is a form of evidence that he was attempting to change the result of the election by telling lies. It may be an ineffective method - but it is a method.

 

His calls to the leaders in Georgia indicating he was attempting to influence the outcome in that state.

The other things I mention are evidence.

 

The extent to which the rallies and the actions on that day were an actual attempt to turn over the election on their own is open to interpretation.  My opinion is that it is a big call  to say it takes a  troubled mind to interpret that he was attempting to do so. He did it in a half assed and stupid way - but I think there is evidence that that was what he was attempting to do. 

31 minutes ago, bob999999 said:

"Trump was attempting to overturn the election"  

Trump was trying to 'challenge' the election results - by all legal means - including supporters protests.

He has every legal right to do that, and to not concede, and to never give up.

 

Do you have proof of your allegations?

What proof did the Dens in the House provide?

 

 

There is a question already about the legality of his calls to various officials in Georgia. 

But he certainly did and does have the right to repeatedly lie about debunked claims.

Numerous posts and comments within posts have been removed for being inflammatory, off-topic, trolling, flaming and personal comments to other members, etc etc.

 

Please keep the conversation civil and on-topic.

 

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

There have been clear occasions when trump has actually said something and been recorded saying it, yet a few diehard unfortunate trump supporters will still come out and say, "he didn't say that", when in fact he clearly did.

 

Such as?

11 minutes ago, PattayaJames said:

 

Such as?

all calls Trump described as perfect

1 hour ago, PattayaJames said:

 

Such as?

Deny, ignore, deflect.

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

Deny, ignore, deflect.

*Ahem*
Deny, Ignore, Lie, Deflect, Obfuscate.

????????

12 minutes ago, J Town said:

*Ahem*
Deny, Ignore, Lie, Deflect, Obfuscate.

????????

Lol. I forgot the exact sequence.  Perfect.

4 hours ago, Phulublub said:

And then he sat and (allegedly) watched on TV as those he had stoked up - but not instructed mind you) stormed the Capitol.

Later that night he did ask them to go home, though, but he told them that he loved them and that they were very special. And then the very next day he threw all of them under the bus by condemning the violence they had used. What a great guy! What a wonderful president! Well, ex-president, and hopefully soon to be inmate of a nice and cosy cell.

12 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Why resist?  That shows why we're having problems.   We're all in this together.  Give the guy a chance.  It's desperate times in the US, this doesn't help.

You think you,re having problems now?( Link..bachman turner overdrive ) you ain,t seen nothing yet

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

You think you,re having problems now?( Link..bachman turner overdrive ) you ain,t seen nothing yet

Yeah, you aint seen nothing yet.

 

Just imagine a President who alienates all allies, then stupidly takes on China alone in a trade war, leaves office with China ascendant on the world stage and the US seriously diminished, and on top of that so seriously mismanages a pandemic as to make the US the worst performer and an example of how to do it wrong.

 

I know it's difficult to imagine such a President, but if you compare Trump to.....uh.....never mind.

What were you guys talking about?? really ? 

I run business - see in daily - people had more money to spend. Our customers are middle class American. They had more options to find jobs because the job marketing was opening while President Trump in charge. People felt confident in ability to support their own families.  My business has grown 20-30% per year since he was a president. I don't understand what you guys talked about. Seriously. 

11 hours ago, bob999999 said:

Fake News.   Trump invented that saying.  Dont you know what Fake News is??

 

Would this be a perfect example "Trump invented that saying."?

 

I know he's old but pretty sure the guy in this 1894 illustration isn't Trump.

 

 

41 minutes ago, AMichigan said:

What were you guys talking about?? really ? 

I run business - see in daily - people had more money to spend. Our customers are middle class American. They had more options to find jobs because the job marketing was opening while President Trump in charge. People felt confident in ability to support their own families.  My business has grown 20-30% per year since he was a president. I don't understand what you guys talked about. Seriously. 

No doubt that you don't understand what we are saying. 

41 minutes ago, sirineou said:

No doubt that you don't understand what we are saying. 

Every time I post something, there are a couple of members that post confused emojis. I apologise for the confusion , I did try to use small words and I promise next time to use pictures. ???? 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/23/us/politics/trump-presidential-history.html

The Trump Presidency Is Now History. So How Will It Rank?

 

As scholars consider the legacy of Donald J. Trump, it appears that even the woefully inadequate James Buchanan has some serious competition.

5 hours ago, AMichigan said:

What were you guys talking about?? really ? 

I run business - see in daily - people had more money to spend. Our customers are middle class American. They had more options to find jobs because the job marketing was opening while President Trump in charge. People felt confident in ability to support their own families.  My business has grown 20-30% per year since he was a president. I don't understand what you guys talked about. Seriously. 

Are you talking about 2 years ago or last year.  If last year....well....you're way off the mark.  Glad your biz is doing well.  Some are.  But many, many, many are not.  Just ask Trump.  His businesses are doing terrible.  Hospitality and golf courses are really taking a hit due to the botched response to the pandemic.

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Are you talking about 2 years ago or last year.  If last year....well....you're way off the mark.  Glad your biz is doing well.  Some are.  But many, many, many are not.  Just ask Trump.  His businesses are doing terrible.  Hospitality and golf courses are really taking a hit due to the botched response to the pandemic.

Even his safety net Deutsche Bank has delivered divorce papers to him. He will NOT have a happy, peaceful retirement.

A conspiracy post has been removed.

 

Did you know Biden on the Inauguration day he used private airplane travelled to the event? You have to ask yourself why the military did not provide Air Force one for him ? Instead Trump allowed to use AF1 on his last day travel to FL? Something is not right here. DC still have 20,000 National guards there at least until the end of this month or longer till March.....Something sounds OFF here. Of course Fake news did not show you. My state Michigan day 2 after Biden got in,  governor, she changed policy -  will allow restaurants to open next month for dine in.....come on....this is too obvious and predictable what they're doing......but My question why is so fast to flip this stupid rules ??? Good news my state most people open their eyes - see more the truths about this <deleted>....that is good thing.