24 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

I can only post from how the UK vaccination programme is being done.

 

But if a vaccine passport was introduced today, to allow travel, to enjoy Cinemas, Pubs, etc. then I can not see how it would not be age discriminatory, unless suddenly private hospital were going to be allowed to start vaccinating people also.

It would be based on vaccination status, not age, and would be a global mix of people. For example, even now, Israel inoculates over 16s. Insurance requirements may also  produce age discrimination, blocking the elderly.

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It would be based on vaccination status, not age, and would be a global mix of people. For example, even now, Israel inoculates over 16s. Insurance requirements may also  produce age discrimination, blocking the elderly.

 

Indonesia, Israel .... as I said, I can only discuss what the UK is doing.

 

And so far, they have no plans to vaccinate anyone under 35.

 

In fact, if booster jabs are required later on in the year as Boris suggested yesterday, then anyone under 50 getting a vaccination must be slim.

 

Passports? ... LOL

4 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

Indonesia, Israel .... as I said, I can only discuss what the UK is doing

Why so? The question was really about people being admitted into Thailand which is certainly not only about UK people. 

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

The question was really about people being admitted into Thailand which is certainly not only about UK people. 

 

And the UK is one of the biggest Tourist Markets for Thailand.

 

Well, much bigger than Indonesia and Israel anyway.

 

1 hour ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

And the UK is one of the biggest Tourist Markets for Thailand.

 

Well, much bigger than Indonesia and Israel anyway.

 

No it isn't.

It is but a fraction of the numbers from China, Malaysia, and India.... in fact supplying only about 1 million, in 12th place actually. Just a few places above Indonesia and hardly relevant.  Asean is growing fast.

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

No it isn't.

It is but a fraction of the numbers from China, Malaysia, and India.... in fact supplying only about 1 million, in 12th place actually. Just a few places above Indonesia and hardly relevant.  Asean is growing fast.

     Right.  2019 visitors:  Asian countries:  25 million.  Europe and the Americas:  8 million.  Asia is by far the largest tourist market and will likely remain so in the future.  I think there is a perception with some posters that only western tourists somehow 'count'.  How many times have I read something like 'there weren't any tourists at all, the place was totally dead, just lots of Asians'.   Certainly made all those ridiculous "Pattaya is Dead"  threads over the pre-covid years so very laughable. 

    If you look at all the new development going on in Pattaya, and still going on with covid, most of it is far from the bar areas.   It's new golf courses, new water parks, new theaters, new attractions like Legend Siam, new shopping experiences like Terminal 21 and the upcoming Runway 88.  New, large, high rise hotels in north Pattaya and Wong Amat with extensive meeting and entertainment facilities.  It's all being driven primarily by the large and growing Asian market.  

8 hours ago, newnative said:

If you look at all the new development going on in Pattaya, and still going on with covid, most of it is far from the bar areas.   It's new golf courses, new water parks, new theaters, new attractions like Legend Siam, new shopping experiences like Terminal 21 and the upcoming Runway 88.  New, large, high rise hotels in north Pattaya and Wong Amat with extensive meeting and entertainment facilities.  It's all being driven primarily by the large and growing Asian market.  

 

Seriously? 

 

Your two examples have been open for quite some time now,  and Runway 88 is marketing itself to Expats.

14 hours ago, newnative said:

Certainly made all those ridiculous "Pattaya is Dead"  threads over the pre-covid years so very laughable. 

Mind you, I was out last night, and Pattaya is dead!!!????

6 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

Seriously? 

 

Your two examples have been open for quite some time now,  and Runway 88 is marketing itself to Expats.

     Yes, seriously.   I mentioned those two examples but there are others.  I used Terminal 21 because it's the biggest example of how the large Asian market has, and still is, remaking Pattaya.  2019 visitors to Thailand:  Asian countries:  25 million.  Europe and the Americas:  8 million.  

     You don't get a massive Terminal 21 built in Pattaya because some of those 8 million are finding their way to Pattaya.  It gets built because some of the 25 million Asian tourists are visiting Pattaya--in enough numbers, along with some of the 8 million, to support it.   Runway 88 may or may not be marketing itself to expats at the moment, there are more of them here now than international travelers, but don't kid yourself--it's being built for international tourists, not expats.  Have you checked @runway88 on Facebook, by the way?  I did a quick look and all the comments about it that I saw were in Thai--as was the original description of the project.  I had to hit the translation key.  Certainly expats are important--I'm an expat--but I'm realistic enough to realize that the expat market is not going to be enough to keep T21 and many other enterprises going. 

     I'm not sure I would describe T21 as being open for 'quite some time now' since it was only October 2018.  It really only had those few months and the full year of 2019 until covid shut things down in early 2020.  We lost the rest of 2020 and  likely most of 2021.  A couple more recent examples for you are the two big hotel projects going up in Wong Amat and Naklua, as well as the one across from Central Festival.  Also Arom condominium, The Edge, and the large, highrise condos in Jomtien.  

     Likely of those the very large Grande Centre Point 2 going up is the best recent example, along with the new Amari addition and the new Oxo Hotel.  All built for the large and growing, pre-covid, Asian market.  Centre Point 2 had not yet started construction when covid shut things down--it could have easily been shelved at that point. (Small pun.)  Instead, full steam ahead with the expectation that the Asian visitors will be back.  I expect they will, too, and possibly sooner than some other markets as many of the flights are much shorter.  

     

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Mind you, I was out last night, and Pattaya is dead!!!????

     I did say 'pre-covid'.  Instead of dead, let's just say Pattaya is resting.  And, if you get away from the tourist areas, Pattaya is still very much alive.  My partner and I were out and about at the Lake Mabprachan area yesterday.  Beautiful area with a very nice bike and walking path that has been built around the reservoir.  Lots of road improvement work going on.  We had lunch at a great restaurant--there are a number of restaurants by the popular bike path.  Mid-week, covid still going on, and the place was packed--every table taken. Nice mix of Thais and farangs.  It's been awhile since I've seen people having to wait for a free table.  

16 hours ago, newnative said:

I think there is a perception with some posters that only western tourists somehow 'count'. 

True. Funny when a pic of a crowd of Asians shopping & eating is posted and all we get here is "I don't see any farang" as if the Asians aren't in fact spending the money. Now, as our Economists know that the stream of Western tourists had dried up and Pattaya's been dead for more than a decade, now we see what happens when the Asian stream dries up.

 

I first noticed the extent of the blindness when a chorus of sneers greeted the construction of Central Festival because farangs couldn't afford to shop there. As one of our most brilliant TVF Economists ever, popularizer of the canonical Fixed Pie Principle, discoverer of the highly reliable Stalls Of Doom Indicator, said at the time:

 

Anyone stupid enough to build a place that charges Bangkok prices in a small tourist resort town deserves to go bankrupt.

 

Didn't have the slightest clue about the market Thai developers were now targeting. Can't exist; no money there.???? So the nonsense continues.

On 2/16/2021 at 3:34 PM, TaaSaparot said:

 

I can only post from how the UK vaccination programme is being done.

 

But if a vaccine passport was introduced today, to allow travel, to enjoy Cinemas, Pubs, etc. then I can not see how it would not be age discriminatory, unless suddenly private hospital were going to be allowed to start vaccinating people also.

 

I see your point, but It would only be age discriminatory for the short term.

 

It's a moot point though, because even an elderly Brit who has been vaccinated early in the program, due to their age, can still not travel here until a certain percentage of Thai's have been vaccinated, and by the time that happens, most of the UK will have been vaccinated anyway.  

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I see your point, but It would only be age discriminatory for the short term.

 

It's a moot point though, because even an elderly Brit who has been vaccinated early in the program, due to their age, can still not travel here until a certain percentage of Thai's have been vaccinated, and by the time that happens, most of the UK will have been vaccinated anyway.  

 

Which begs the question, why so many people are so concerned about Vaccine Passports?

 

8 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

Which begs the question, why so many people are so concerned about Vaccine Passports?

 

 

Fair question. 

 

I would think because some countries would be slower than Thailand to vaccinate the majority of their population, so Thailand will insist on vaccination proof from tourists of those countries.

 

This will also be the case for many western countries with their tourism industry.    

52 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Fair question. 

 

I would think because some countries would be slower than Thailand to vaccinate the majority of their population, so Thailand will insist on vaccination proof from tourists of those countries.

 

This will also be the case for many western countries with their tourism industry.    

 

Where I think it would be discriminatory for the UK to go down the Vaccine Passport, the UK Government say they do not want to go down that route because it would be seen as making Vaccines mandatory, which they don't want to do.

Well, (again) the "Vaccination-Certificate" Idea is gaining strenght. It hinges on the question: Can vaccinated people still spread the virus. We don't know yet.

The main problem is: Worldwide, the vaccination pace is just too slow. What good is it to vaccinate the folks in "rich" countries, while the Virus has plenty of time to mutate in Africa. To the pont, where current vaccines offer no protection anymore.

 

Unless the pace of vaccinations can be increased globally, the "Vaccination-Certificate-Idea" is condemned to death before it had a chance to fly.

5 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

Where I think it would be discriminatory for the UK to go down the Vaccine Passport, the UK Government say they do not want to go down that route because it would be seen as making Vaccines mandatory, which they don't want to do.

 

It's not about what the UK want.  It's about what the countries receiving tourists want.  

 

If Thailand, and many other countries, insist on proof of vaccination, than the NHS, through government policy, will be obliged to provide such proof. 

 

This will allow people to travel internationally to such countries that require the document.

 

Of course, proof of vaccination will be worthless inside the UK.

 

Basically, as far as many countries in the world will be concerned, no vaccination, and proof thereof, no boarding the fight and no entry.  

On 2/5/2021 at 1:46 AM, swissie said:

Should an internatinally accepted "Vaccinaton-Certificate" come into play, (THE GAME CHANGER) I expect to spend a hassle free holiday in Pattaya in early June. 

It would probably take 2 years for all governments to agree to a single standard certificate, the FAKE certificate market will blossom 10 fold.

23 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

It would probably take 2 years for all governments to agree to a single standard certificate, the FAKE certificate market will blossom 10 fold.

It pains me, but you are probably right.

I remember you could buy a negative COVID test and vaccination passport in Serbia, apparently issued in the EU, for a few Euros without taking a test and without getting vaccinated. How would you know which is real and which isn't?

 

Additional trouble - Brazil strain of COVID is mostly bypassing immune system response - meaning vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca at least) are worth squat with this strain quickly spreading globally. Worse news yet, a new Finnish strain just discovered not only completely bypasses immune system built on vaccines, but isn't even detected by several WHO approved RT-PCR tests.

 

So we're basically at square one.

 

The big question is, after receiving your 15th Pfizer/Moderna shot that makes your own body to produce protein that your own immune system attacks, what will be the percentage of auto-immune illnesses among those vaccinated?

9 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

Which begs the question, why so many people are so concerned about Vaccine Passports?

 

There will possibly be some who did not take up the vaccination offered them, quite a few sectors of society are spreading rumours in the UK, and I am of the opinion these narrow minded fools should not be permitted to put other countries and their own countries at risk. 

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

There will possibly be some who did not take up the vaccination offered them, quite a few sectors of society are spreading rumours in the UK

 

Yeah, according the Government & Media I suppose, who seem to be able to use "Social Media" to deflect any valid questions.

 

Spoke to a Guy in the UK last week, who was pretty ill after getting his jab, so much  that he is refusing the second one, and says getting coronavirus can't be as bad as what he went through.

 

Its a small minority that get affected like this, but that any discussion about it, soon gets shot down that you must be an Idiot and only believe what you read on "Social Media"

 

17 hours ago, Leaver said:

If Thailand, and many other countries, insist on proof of vaccination, than the NHS, through government policy, will be obliged to provide such proof. 

 

This will allow people to travel internationally to such countries that require the document.

 

No, it will allow a certain group of people to travel.

48 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

Yeah, according the Government & Media I suppose, who seem to be able to use "Social Media" to deflect any valid questions.

 

Spoke to a Guy in the UK last week, who was pretty ill after getting his jab, so much  that he is refusing the second one, and says getting coronavirus can't be as bad as what he went through.

 

Its a small minority that get affected like this, but that any discussion about it, soon gets shot down that you must be an Idiot and only believe what you read on "Social Media"

 

I have not spoke to many, but a few I have, had no adverse ill effect, not even a sore arm. Is it possible those who react to the jab would also react badly to the virus for real? Your guy in the UK may be an idiot, Covid kills people.

Over 17 Million administered in the UK and counting, and I don't hear much complaint....

 

1 hour ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

No, it will allow a certain group of people to travel.

 

As I said, it's a moot point, because no Brit's are traveling to Thailand until the majority of Thai's have been vaccinated, and by then, the UK vaccination program will have been completed.  

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

by then, the UK vaccination program will have been completed.  

 

What are you counting as "completed" ?

8 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

What are you counting as "completed" ?

 

Most likely around 70% to 80% of the population.    

 

How long will it take Thailand to reach the same percentage?

 

On 2/5/2021 at 1:46 AM, swissie said:

Currently (at least in Europe), the general governement consensus is that already vaccinated people should not be privileged over unvaccinated folks. For now.

In other words: Before everybody, including his uncle is vaccinated, no international Tourism on a major scale will be allowed. Unrealistic, as a good number of "southern" countries economies are based on tourism as they have nothing much else to sell!

I predict that in the near future there will be internationally accepted "Vaccination-Certificates" issued, making "guided/controlled tourism" possible again. (Denmark has already issued such "Vaccination-Certificates") as a trailblazer.

 

An inevitable "game-changer" in the making with no alternative. The only Alternative would be: Wait 15 years until everybody in Africa and South America is vaccinated, before worldwide travel/tourism can legally resume? = Bovine droppings!

 

What would that mean for Pattaya?
1) Due to eternal "lockdowns", anyone in Europe has not experienced much Thai-Style "Sanuk & Sabai" lately. The "pent-up" demand for Sanuk & Sabai must be at an all time high as there has been no Sanuk & Sabai available for a long time. The European-Style of Sanuk & Sabai has never appealed to me much.

2) How much time would it take to re-open a bar in Pattaya? About 2 hours to re-stack with beer. Even in the remotested corner of Thailand, former Bar-Staff, currently hybernating in the sticks, could be back in Pattaya within 48 hours by bus.

No electricity for the first couple of days at the bar? No problem. The vaccinated European seekers of Sanuk & Sabai won't mind sipping their beer by candlelight.
===========================
Seriously: "Capitalism" in the Western World has become cumbersome to say the least. On a small scale, the Thai "Capitalism" is still rather "uncomplicated" in comparison. Making it possible to react to new economic circumstances practically overnight.

PS: Should an internatinally accepted "Vaccinaton-Certificate" come into play, (THE GAME CHANGER) I expect to spend a hassle free holiday in Pattaya in early June.        June 2021 not 2022, well understood.
Assuming that (inevitably) an International Vaccination Certificate will come into effect, some of us may be surprised how fast a place like Pattaya can arise from the ashes.
I myself would like to be there, when the Phoenix arises from the ashes. If necessary by candlelight, with my Internationally Accepted Vaccination Certificate dangeling around my neck.
Cheers.

 

misguided and fake "egalitarianism" increasingly paralyzes Western countries.

it's a lie, basically saying "nooooo.... don't worry, people who are richer than you can't do/buy more things than you", every political party tries on its own version of the lie to garner votes... absolutely disgusting.

 

yes, of course, vaccination certificates will become a thing once vaccines will have been proven effective and governments will take measures to allow such travelers. the "official position" is always for the normal people, because official is always "except necessary travel", except "diplomats, law enforcement, security personnel, special trade missions, government representatives, etc."

 

see Peru... appearances have to be kept up because of the braindead public on social media.

 

12 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

What are you counting as "completed" ?

Pretty sure that what the UK government would consider their vaccine rollout to be completed when every adult in the UK has been offered a vaccine.

 

According to the announcement that has just been made, this will be by July 31.

 

All UK adults to be offered vaccine by July 31

5 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Pretty sure that what the UK government would consider their vaccine rollout to be completed when every adult in the UK has been offered a vaccine.

 

According to the announcement that has just been made, this will be by July 31.

 

All UK adults to be offered vaccine by July 31

 

Good news.

 

Looks a big ask though, if it remains two jabs three months apart.