UK had 'one or two' Brexit teething issues on fishing, minister says

[CG1 Blue]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“But if you're honest with yourself you know that if the UK had never voted for Brexit and had still been a full EU member, we'd have been obliged to join the EU vaccine program whether it was in law or not. ”

 

OK you made the claim, now back it up with evidence of why your claim is true, or accept you don’t have such evidence and made the claim up.

I didn't expect you to apply common sense, so you're reply is not a surprise ????‍♂️

[7by7]

20 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why do you keep repeating the same nonsense?

Government spending on preparation at £6.3billion - I accept that. 

Then there's that £130billion of guesswork from the EU cheerleaders at Bloomberg again!!!

I'm not going to keep going around in circles here. 

 

I provided that link in response to your saying "You have not published any data to support billions lost as a direct result of leaving the EU" because such data has been provided several times!

 

As explained to you before; that you refuse to accept the figures because they show how disastrous Brexit has been does not make them nonsense.

 

Good of you to accept the government's figures! Although that was January 2020; it's gone up considerably since then! "By the end of 2020/21 the government is expecting to have spent up to £8.1bn[1] on preparing for Brexit and the end of the transition period." (Brexit spending: government preparations). An increase in the government's estimate of nearly £2billion pounds in less than 12 months! How much will the actual cost to the taxpayer eventually total, I wonder. 

 

You also previously asked how Bloomberg reached their figures. That's explained in the link; as you'd know had you bothered to read all of it. 

The data posted here from Bloomberg and the other sources is echoed by data published elsewhere. If, as you say, this data is incorrect because the sources are "EU cheerleaders," why are there no figures from Brexit cheerleaders showing the opposite?

 

If you want to stop going around in circles then either produce such data to show how Brexit has been of benefit to our economy or at least cease from making false claims like "You have not published any data to support billions lost as a direct result of leaving the EU."

 

[7by7]

20 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Tell us; why should the EU grant us concessions and privileges no other non member has?

Because the UK were members, friends, allies, contributors (financially and intellectually) for 40 years?

 

But we chose to leave and end our membership.

 

We are, I hope, still friends and allies of the EU; but we are no longer members.

 

Do you know of any club which will allow a member free use of it's facilities after they resign and stop paying their subscription?

 

Perhaps I can use your argument to cancel my SKY, broadband and mobile subscriptions but still receive the same service! What are my chances of them agreeing, do you think?

 

Absolute zero, I reckon!

 

 

[7by7]

16 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Maybe you should write to each Minister and ask them your question

As she has stated in your link  she read the agreement as soon as it was published 

 

 Yes, as soon as it was published in the press; several days after it was signed! Usually ministers, especially ministers directly concerned, are informed before the press!

 

Do you seriously believe that the fisheries minister was kept in the dark about the contents of the agreement until they were released to the press? 

 

Maybe she was; considering how the agreement breaks all the promises made by Boris to the UK fishing industry!

[7by7]

14 hours ago, JonnyF said:

You've been given plenty of positives, which you either deny (e.g. vaccine rollout) or claim isn't a real thing (sovereignty, self determination, a purer form of Democracy). 

 

As explained many, many times; despite the lies of Hancock and Rees-Mogg, the vaccine rollout has nothing to do with Brexit. It happened during the transition period when we were still subject to all EU rules and regulations and we used the emergency provisions of those regulations to unilaterally approve the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. 

 

I know you wont take my word for it; but how can you not take that of MHRA Chief Executive Dr June Raine? Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine: MHRA statement

Quote

if a suitable COVID-19 vaccine candidate, with strong supporting evidence of safety, quality and effectiveness from clinical trials becomes available before the end of the transition period, EU legislation allows for temporary authorisation of supply in the UK, based on the public health need.

(7by7 emphasis)

 

Sovereignty?

Well, we are no longer subject to the EU rules and regulations; but how much did they restrict our sovereignty? For example, did they stop us from supporting Bush's war in Iraq, or any other major decision? No.

 

Stop us from making our own laws in all areas except in the the few areas, such as food safety standards, we agreed to? No.

 

Self determination?

OK, we were restricted in negotiating our own trade agreements; but as the last 12 plus months have shown the deals we can reach on our own are nowhere near as advantageous as those reached by the world's second largest trading bloc. Deals we can no longer profit from.

 

A purer form of democracy?

One in which a party which receives just 43.6% of the votes gets 56.2% of the seats, you mean? That was how our democracy worked while we were EU members!

 

15 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I'm delighted with the results so far 

 

So your delighted with the extra paperwork and costs which British businesses who export to the EU have to contend with? Restrictions which have already threatened to make many small business, and some large ones, go broke!

 

15 hours ago, JonnyF said:

but it's only been a few weeks since leaving the transition period, it will be even more obvious in 5 years from now once everyone has adjusted and the remaining trade deals are completed.

As previously shown; most of those deals are nothing new as they are roll overs from the ones we enjoyed as EU members; they'll add nothing to our economy which we didn't have already.

 

Others, like the Japanese deal, are the crumbs the EU didn't want.

 

15 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I can't imagine how bitter you must be to still be going on and on and on about it every day.

As i have said before, the only way to solve problems is to first identify them.

 

Sticking your head in the sand and hoping that all well be well in five years time is only storing up even more disastrous problems for the future.

 

15 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Look on the bright side, we could have stayed and ended up like France.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1400920/eu-news-France-trade-deficit-eurostat-euro-eurozone-crisis-frexit

 

Irrelevent.

 

We are not France.

 

Like Denmark, we permanently opted out of joining the Euro.

 

So while we were an EU member we were not, and never would have been, in the Eurozone.

 

Any real positives of Brexit?

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

So why did the eu try and invoke article 16? And why are the eus vaccinations half of the uks?

What has article 16 got to do with any of this?

And bear in mind the first person who tried to renege on the Westminster agreement was Johnson.

Basically because he didnt read what he signed ????.

Still it was his deal. His fantastic, his oven ready deal to get Brexit done. Odd he would say all that and just a few months later threaten to break it. 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Nout said:

Nope. Brits don't like being cheap slave labour.

 

Well I think its the duty of all you Brexiteers to get into those fields and help those farmers. Its the patriotic thing to do.

After all you guys voted to stop Romanian workers coming here to do the work. 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Nout said:

You please read the news about the vaccine roll out and stop trying to argue the inarguable.

 

What that buying the vaccine could have been done whether we were in the EU or out of it?

Remember that when those orders were placed we were still bound by the EU's rules. It was still under the transition period.

So its absolute nonsense to try and paint the ordering of those vaccines as some kind of Brexit bonus. Because its a pure and utter lie.

[7by7]

13 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

Same old nugget, we don't want the advantages or disadvantages of the EU club.

 

Then why the constant Brexiteer whinge because we've lost the advantages of membership?

 

13 hours ago, Tofer said:

What we want is fair trading. As has been clearly shown the EU are bent on a determination to disrupt trade and punish UK at every opportunity, before you ask for proof, look at the title of the post.

• Shellfish banned since our waters, all of a sudden, overnight on the 31st Dec. became polluted! Perhaps we should ban the EU fishermen, since our waters are obviously not up to their standards.
• Financial services refused equivalence, because the UK ""MIGHT"" change their regulations, contrary to the terms of the most favoured nation status set out in the WTO, and again nothing changed overnight.
• Truckers sandwiches confiscated.
• Access refused on the basis of punctuation errors on shipping documents.

 

More Brexiteer whingeing.

 

The EU are treating us the same as any other non member, subject to the terms and conditions of the trade agreement we have with them.

 

If you don't like those terms and conditions, complain to the man who negotiated it, David George Hamilton Frost, Baron Frost, CMG, and the man who signed it, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

 

13 hours ago, Tofer said:

What exactly are these privileges you claim we want?

The long list of ones the Brexiteers whinge about losing.

 

Including, but by no means restricted to, those you've listed.

[7by7]

13 hours ago, Tofer said:

22 hours ago, 7by7 said:

On many occasions on this forum Brexiteers have been asked to name one positive of Brexit.

 

And many times you've been answered, so I'm not about to repeat myself

 

Impossible to repeat an answer never given!

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Nout said:

The destruction of nation states by the EU.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/02/25/the-eu-will-choke-off-europes-recovery/

 

Spiked wants to talk about EU fiscal debt while ignoring the UK's?

Tell me which one is higher vs GDP?

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

You can repeat this as many times as you like. But if you're honest with yourself you know that if the UK had never voted for Brexit and had still been a full EU member, we'd have been obliged to join the EU vaccine program whether it was in law or not. 

As it happened we were very much viewed as a 3rd country to the EU, so we had no obligations morally or legally. That's why the UK went alone and has so far had huge success with the vaccine roll out. 

 

How do you know the UK would have joined the EU's program? 

The UK has a long history within the EU of doing its own thing. Something the EU seemed quite happy to allow the UK to do.

 

[7by7]

12 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

Have you forgotten we're meant to have a free trade agreement with the EU?

 

Or maybe they aren't respecting it because they can't pull their finger out to sign it. I was under the impression it was active under a temporary approval.

 

You obviously don't know all the terms of that agreement!

 

Don't beat yourself up about it; the fisheries minister didn't find out the details until it was published in the press!

 

Brexit: What trade deals has the UK done so far?

Quote

What does the EU-UK trade deal mean?

The trade deal that was agreed prevented any tariffs and quotas being introduced - which would have made it more expensive to trade.

But not everything is the same as it was before Brexit.

As the UK no longer has to follow EU rules on product standards, businesses will need to get used to new checks. This means more paperwork, which could cause delays if businesses turn up at ports unprepared.

Strict EU laws on animal products also means some UK products can no longer be exported.

 

For more details, see Brexit: What are the key points of the deal?

[7by7]

13 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

But they are committed to the Euro and the EU recovery fund that they will be paying into  for some time to come, despite it being against EU rules of 'shared debt'.

 

As already shown to you, to say the recovery fund is against the EU rules is incorrect.

 

13 hours ago, Tofer said:

We've been over this at length, do we really have to repeat it all?

Since you either missed it, or more likely have chosen to ignore it, I'll repeat what I said the last time you raised this nonsense.

 

Can you point me to the part of the EU rules which support your statement that the Covid recovery fund is "in contradiction of the EU rules" please. I can't find it.

 

Poland and Hungary both challenged a clause in the entire budget, not just the Covid recovery fund, which tied funding with adherence to the rule of law. A compromise was reached, which both countries agreed to. However, they, or any other member, could still challenge it in the European Court. 

 

The latest I can find on this comes from the 11th December.

 

EU breaks deadlock over €1.8tn budget and Covid-recovery fund

 

 

EU leaders unblock budget in deal with Hungary and Poland

 

As I said then

Quote

I can find nothing to say that anyone has yet challenged this deal in court.

Can you?

 

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“But if you're honest with yourself you know that if the UK had never voted for Brexit and had still been a full EU member, we'd have been obliged to join the EU vaccine program whether it was in law or not. ”

 

OK you made the claim, now back it up with evidence of why your claim is true, or accept you don’t have such evidence and made the claim up.

So the success of the uks vaccination programme compared to the eu isn,t evidence?

[7by7]

11 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

This has been answered on many previous occasions. 

 

However, here's a new one for you;

 

1500 financial and insurance services companies have applied for licences to operate in the UK, including 1,000 new operators, with over a third of those coming from European nations.

 

Somewhat flies in the face of the Armageddon predictions, and much more substantial evidence to the contrary, than the few short term teething problems championed by you remainers. 

 

Why no link to your source?

 

Of course some financial companies who wish to continue trading with the UK or on UK markets have had to move here since Brexit; but have the jobs created replaced those lost by companies going the other way since the referendum?

 

From February 2019: Which companies are leaving UK, downsizing or cutting jobs ahead of Brexit?

 

It's still happening; on the advice of HMG! Move to EU to avoid Brexit costs, firms told 

Quote

Exporters advised by Department for International Trade officials to form EU-based companies to circumvent border issues

 

Even Brexit supporters are moving to the EU: Brexit-backing Ineos boss confirms new cars will be built in France instead of Wales

[kingdong]

46 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Well I think its the duty of all you Brexiteers to get into those fields and help those farmers. Its the patriotic thing to do.

After all you guys voted to stop Romanian workers coming here to do the work. 

Its not the duty of brexiteers,however it could be the duty of the growing numbers of unemployed should they wish to remain on benefits.

[7by7]

10 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HOuG3nTsFo

 

 From 0.19 into that video: "nearly 1500 financial companies have applied for permission to continue operating in the UK after Brexit"

 

Continue operating; so not new after all!

 

However, they almost got it right. From a credible source: More than 1,000 EU firms plan first UK office after Brexit.

 

But as I say in my previous, these City jobs fall far short of replacing the lost jobs in manufacturing and elsewhere caused by Brexit.

 

[CG1 Blue]

37 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

How do you know the UK would have joined the EU's program? 

The UK has a long history within the EU of doing its own thing. Something the EU seemed quite happy to allow the UK to do.

 

You're talking about the UK not joining Schengen or the Euro I assume. That's completely different to not joining a bloc vaccination program during a pandemic. There is no way we'd have gone against the EU and the other 27 member states if we'd still been in the club.

If you want to believe otherwise that's up to you. 

 

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

But we chose to leave and end our membership.

 

We are, I hope, still friends and allies of the EU; but we are no longer members.

 

Do you know of any club which will allow a member free use of it's facilities after they resign and stop paying their subscription?

 

Perhaps I can use your argument to cancel my SKY, broadband and mobile subscriptions but still receive the same service! What are my chances of them agreeing, do you think?

 

Absolute zero, I reckon!

 

 

Comparing leaving a fiscal and political union of 28 countries after 40 years of contribution, to cancelling a Sky subscription. Yeah that works....????‍♂️

[7by7]

4 hours ago, Nout said:

Wasn't a disaster regarding the vaccination program in UK. In Europe the false concensus and cumbersome decision making process was exposed.

 

How many more times have you Brexiteers got to be told that the UK's vaccination programme has nothing to do with Brexit?

 

To quote, yet again, MHRA Chief Executive Dr June Raine who said in this government press release

Quote

However, if a suitable COVID-19 vaccine candidate, with strong supporting evidence of safety, quality and effectiveness from clinical trials becomes available before the end of the transition period, EU legislation allows for temporary authorisation of supply in the UK, based on the public health need.

 

See also article 5(2) of Directive 2001/83/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 6 November 2001 on the Community code relating to medicinal products for human use.

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You can repeat this as many times as you like. But if you're honest with yourself you know that if the UK had never voted for Brexit and had still been a full EU member, we'd have been obliged to join the EU vaccine program whether it was in law or not. 

As it happened we were very much viewed as a 3rd country to the EU, so we had no obligations morally or legally. That's why the UK went alone and has so far had huge success with the vaccine roll out. 

 Wrong; see my previous as well as countless others.

 

Brexiteers regularly repeating Hancock and Rees-Moggs lie wont make it true!

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Nout said:

Nope. Brits don't like being cheap slave labour.

 

But you don't mind importing foreigners to do it?

 

Note; foreign workers in the UK have the same rights as British workers; including the minimum wage.

Edited February 25, 2021 by 7by7
Addendum

[7by7]

42 minutes ago, kingdong said:

So the success of the uks vaccination programme compared to the eu isn,t evidence?

 

It's evidence that we've handled it better; no one is denying that. Though other aspects of this government's handling of the pandemic vary from woeful to corrupt!

 

But it is not evidence that we could not have done exactly the same if Brexit had never happened. 

 

As MHRA Chief Executive Dr June Raine says, as the relevant EU directive says; we could have done.

[7by7]

22 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Comparing leaving a fiscal and political union of 28 countries after 40 years of contribution, to cancelling a Sky subscription. Yeah that works....????‍♂️

 

I did my best to give an analogy so simple that even you could understand. Obviously I failed!

 

We've left the EU. That means we can no longer enjoy any of the privileges and benefits of being a member. You've got all that you voted for, not just some, but by no means all, of the bits the Leave campaigns promised, but all the nasties they hid behind 'Project Fear' as well! 

[kingdong]

29 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

But you don't mind importing foreigners to do it?

 

Note; foreign workers in the UK have the same rights as British workers; including the minimum wage.

Not if the employer takes them on(literally and figuratively )) on a " self employed " basis.

[kingdong]

23 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

It's evidence that we've handled it better; no one is denying that. Though other aspects of this government's handling of the pandemic vary from woeful to corrupt!

 

But it is not evidence that we could not have done exactly the same if Brexit had never happened. 

 

As MHRA Chief Executive Dr June Raine says, as the relevant EU directive says; we could have done.

So the eu countries could have done the same as the uk?pity they didn,t as the body count rises.

[CG1 Blue]

44 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You can repeat this as many times as you like. But if you're honest with yourself you know that if the UK had never voted for Brexit and had still been a full EU member, we'd have been obliged to join the EU vaccine program whether it was in law or not. 

As it happened we were very much viewed as a 3rd country to the EU, so we had no obligations morally or legally. That's why the UK went alone and has so far had huge success with the vaccine roll out. 

 Wrong; see my previous as well as countless others.

 

Brexiteers regularly repeating Hancock and Rees-Moggs lie wont make it true!

What in my post was wrong? 

And which lie from Hancock and Rees-Mog did I repeat? 

[candide]

37 minutes ago, kingdong said:

So the eu countries could have done the same as the uk?pity they didn,t as the body count rises.

A pity only for some countries. As the supply is not extensible, there is no way every country could be served first.  It means the first countries to place orders (the German, the French and the Dutch, if I remember well) would not have left anything for the others.

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Yes, as soon as it was published in the press; several days after it was signed! Usually ministers, especially ministers directly concerned, are informed before the press!

 

Do you seriously believe that the fisheries minister was kept in the dark about the contents of the agreement until they were released to the press? 

 

Maybe she was; considering how the agreement breaks all the promises made by Boris to the UK fishing industry!

Who said anything about the press  As she has stated in your link  she read the agreement as soon as it was published

meaning when it was published by the UK Government.

Maybe you are not aware that the  Government has its own publishing service

legislation.gov.uk Publishing

https://publishing.legislation.gov.uk/aboutus#:~:text=The National Archives is the,of Culture%2C Media and Sport.