Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Kwarium]

2 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

8 months since i took the oath and silence ????

It seems there is a big back log, due to the pandemic? However, back in 2018 after my oath and waiting for 5.5 months, the RG finally included my name. Hang in there!

[david143]

yankee and me are on same batch .

su su

[Kwarium]

7 minutes ago, david143 said:

yankee and me are on same batch .

su su

Maybe this batch is held up because they know once you get citizenship you won’t be the main poster here keeping this thread alive? ????

<kidding, of course!>

 

Good luck!

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Kwarium said:

Really? Any more info on this? Is it from MOI? Can’t imagine they would send a letter for each person granted citizenship. 

 

Regardless, presenting a USA passport at a US embassy for consular services could not be construed as going against the Thai regulation to not use the passport of original nationality while in Thailand.

 

We also need to show both passports when checking in for flights to the country of original nationality, otherwise ‘no visa’ would preclude us from being checked in. (New dual citizens may not realize this.)

 

Definitely they send letters to the embassies of all those granted citizenship by naturalisation and through adoption of husband's Thai nationality.  This was specified in the full length 2009 guidelines from the MoI that were for some time posted on SB's website.  Most embassies quickly deposit these letters in the circular filing basket but some embassies, e.g. Singapore, Malaysia, India and  China might find them more interesting.

 

to say there is a Thai regulation not to use original nationality while in Thailand is a misleading simplification of 19.2 of the Thai Nationality Act which says, "The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that: (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality."  Indeed there is some logic to the interpretation that this only applies to use of former nationality within the Kingdom.  However, general Thai legal precedents are ambivalent on the extrajuridical enforceability of Thai laws.  The Constitutional Court recently ruled that conviction and imprisonment of a cabinet minister for heroin smuggling in Australia didn't disqualify him because it did not take place in Thailand.  On the other hand a Thai court  ordered revocation of nationality from someone who was convicted of drug smuggling overseas under 16.3  "With respect to an alien woman who acquires Thai nationality by marriage, her Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that: ; (3) She commits any act contrary to public order or good morals."

 

To my knowledge there are incidences of revocation of Thai nationality under 19.2 recorded in the RG.  Please correct me anyone, if I am wrong.  The closest thing I have found to this is a case of revocation 10 2004 under both 17.1 and 17.2, if I recall correctly, "With respect to a person who has Thai nationality, by reason of the person having been born within the Kingdom of Thailand to an alien father or mother, the person’s Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that: (1) The person has resided in a foreign country, of which the father or mother has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years from the day of the person became sui juris; (2) There is evidence to show that the person makes use of the nationality of the father, mother, or of a foreign nationality, or that the person has an active interest in the nationality of the father, mother, or in a foreign nationality."  The RG announcement specified that the evidence was obtained by the fact that the guy, a Brit, had entered the Kingdom on his British passport.  Since the guy was presumably not living in Thailand and only had Thai nationality by virtue of birth in the Kingdom, it is quite possible that he simply screwed up or annoyed someone.  Perhaps he didn't care, if he was just visiting the land of his birth on holiday and had no intention of taking up residence in the LOS.  But it is odd that he got picked on.  In fact nearly all the revocations of nationality recorded in the RG were cited as done under 17.1 or 17.2 or both but most are Chinese names with a sprinkling of Indians.  it is unknown how these few people were singled out amongst the many thousands of Thais with foreign parents who got Thai nationality due to birth in the Kingdom when that was automatic before 1971.  However, anyone with Thai nationality through birth in the Kingdom now appears protected by the constitution that prohibits revocation of Thai nationality from anyone who is Thai through birth. The constitution doesn't specify that this has to be birth to a Thai parent.

[Kwarium]

5 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

“... is a misleading simplification of 19.2 of the Thai Nationality Act which says, "The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that: (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality."  Indeed there is some logic to the interpretation that this only applies to use of former nationality within the Kingdom.  <snip>

Thanks for your in depth reply. The misleading simplification came directly from the mouth of the sgt. maj. at SB who gave me my naturalization certificate. He specifically said not to use my other passport in Thailand.

 

Good to know what the actual regulation says! You’re probably right that  they wouldn’t bother trying to enforce 19.2 on someone due to activities outside Thailand.

 

Of course there is always the “...screwed up or annoyed someone” card they could play! TIT!

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Kwarium said:

Thanks for your in depth reply. The misleading simplification came directly from the mouth of the sgt. maj. at SB who gave me my naturalization certificate. He specifically said not to use my other passport in Thailand.

 

Good to know what the actual regulation says! You’re probably right that  they wouldn’t bother trying to enforce 19.2 on someone due to activities outside Thailand.

 

Of course there is always the “...screwed up or annoyed someone” card they could play! TIT!

 

It was good advice from the Pol Sgt Maj but is not a specific Thai regulation.  Thai legislators deliberately  leave laws ambivalent so they can be interpreted differently on different occasions. 

 

BTW I didn't know there were any NCOs in that SB office.  In the front office I had dealings with a captain and two lieutenants but no reason why a Sgt Maj could not do the job.  In the PR section at CW they seemed all to be Sgt Majors. These are plum jobs for a a lot of cops who just want an easy life without pressure, specially for the women who usually have kids.  At Immigration you can see the horrible scrums the lower ranking officers have to deal with on a daily basis, while the Sgt Majors in the PR section sit gently "len LINE" waiting for a PR to come in.  My case officer at SB was pretty <deleted> off when they transferred her for a year to be an Immigration shift supervisor at Swampy.  Terrible place for her to get to and had to work various different shifts dealing with the incoming mobs and made it very difficult to take care of her kids.   Every SB officer's nightmare I would guess. 

[Kwarium]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

 

It was good advice from the Pol Sgt Maj but is not a specific Thai regulation.  Thai legislators deliberately  leave laws ambivalent so they can be interpreted differently on different occasions. 

 

BTW I didn't know there were any NCOs in that SB office.  In the front office I had dealings with a captain and two lieutenants but no reason why a Sgt Maj could not do the job.  In the PR section at CW they seemed all to be Sgt Majors. These are plum jobs for a a lot of cops who just want an easy life without pressure, specially for the women who usually have kids.  At Immigration you can see the horrible scrums the lower ranking officers have to deal with on a daily basis, while the Sgt Majors in the PR section sit gently "len LINE" waiting for a PR to come in.  My case officer at SB was pretty <deleted> off when they transferred her for a year to be an Immigration shift supervisor at Swampy.  Terrible place for her to get to and had to work various different shifts dealing with the incoming mobs and made it very difficult to take care of her kids.   Every SB officer's nightmare I would guess. 

The last time I was at SB there was still construction going on in front of the citizenship office. There also was a larger room which seemed recently remodeled 1 door east of the main citizenship office. It is spacious and had about 8 staff at desks with plenty of room between and around them, unlike the conditions in the main office. Pol. Sgt. Maj. had his desk there.

K

[Neeranam]

On 4/22/2021 at 8:53 AM, david143 said:

yankee and me are on same batch .

su su

I empathise bro, but stay calm. 

When did you apply? I think you are still within 3 years?

[david143]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I empathise bro, but stay calm. 

When did you apply? I think you are still within 3 years?

its 3 years 2 months now since start process.

[david143]

whats up guys so silent here

[yankee99]

2 hours ago, david143 said:

whats up guys so silent here

I think the rg website has frozen 

[david143]

1 hour ago, yankee99 said:

I think the rg website has frozen 

time is coming up for renewal WP

[heiri007]

On 5/8/2021 at 3:06 PM, david143 said:

time is coming up for renewal WP

 

After oath... chances are low they want to verify docs again?

[yankee99]

2 minutes ago, heiri007 said:

 

After oath... chances are low they want to verify docs again?

mine expires June 9th only worried about immigration checking after that 

[david143]

1 minute ago, heiri007 said:

 

After oath... chances are low they want to verify docs again?

this is true, but we still don;t know how long it will took them send Data to RG.
MOI still not send Data to RG office for upload.

my WP will expire on 04 July, i am really worried now due to lock down and covid we are working from home.

[david143]

2 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

mine expires June 9th only worried about immigration checking after that 

9 june means you have less time now,

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, heiri007 said:

 

After oath... chances are low they want to verify docs again?

 

There is no reason for SB to verify docs again after the oath in the normal course of events.

[sas_cars]

4 hours ago, david143 said:

this is true, but we still don;t know how long it will took them send Data to RG.
MOI still not send Data to RG office for upload.

my WP will expire on 04 July, i am really worried now due to lock down and covid we are working from home.

 

I wouldn't take the risk of it expiring as it just costs 3000 baht to extend for 1 more year. Citizenship is far more worthwhile to be risking it for such as paltry sum of money

[Arkady]

3 minutes ago, sas_cars said:

 

I wouldn't take the risk of it expiring as it just costs 3000 baht to extend for 1 more year. Citizenship is far more worthwhile to be risking it for such as paltry sum of money

 

I would go with the renewal as there is no telling when announcements get into the RG.

[david143]

7 minutes ago, sas_cars said:

 

I wouldn't take the risk of it expiring as it just costs 3000 baht to extend for 1 more year. Citizenship is far more worthwhile to be risking it for such as paltry sum of money

i already informed my company to prepare for extension XOXO

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, david143 said:

i already informed my company to prepare for extension XOXO

That's the best plan, for sure. You don't want to be taking the oath, collecting the naturalization certificate, or sitting in the khet in Bangkok waiting for your ID card when your WP has expired. 

Look on the bright side - as soon as you get your Work Permit, you'll get a call from SB ???? 

[david143]

FYI
Thai Nationality Interview meeting was on.
12/05
with Fully social distance and with complete MASKS.

????
 

 

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, david143 said:

FYI
Thai Nationality Interview meeting was on.
12/05
with Fully social distance and with complete MASKS.

????

Good to hear that it is going forward. Do you know what batch that was, i.e. when were their files forwarded to the MoI?

[david143]

1 minute ago, onthemoon said:

Good to hear that it is going forward. Do you know what batch that was, i.e. when were their files forwarded to the MoI?

i am not sure about which batch but i will find out for you

[david143]

sorry for wrong emoji it was mistakenly i can't edit ????

[onthemoon]

14 minutes ago, david143 said:

i am not sure about which batch but i will find out for you

Thanks. The reason I ask is that I want to estimate when it will be my turn. From the timelines I saw here, I estimated about 18 months between sending the documents to MoI and the interview on average, but everything seems to be delayed now.

[Kwarium]

Today I learned I am a foreigner with a Thai ID. I completed the naturalization process, getting my blue Thai ID card in 2018, and passport shortly after.

 

Granted, I am out in the boonies, 20km from the nearest 4 lane road. The local gov’t. health clinic is organizing annual flu shots today, so I masked up and headed over, curious about what was on offer. I had previosly ‘registered’ with them whereby they plugged my ID into a card reader and completed information in the gov’t. database. (Nhso.go.th)

 

They took me in and showed me the vaccine, Influvac 2021, by Abbott. It is a trivalent, meaning it protects against two A strains and 1 B strain. They also have an unbranded Thai ‘flu vaccine’ in tiny vials which they are divvying up into 4ths for the over 65 villagers. The only clarification I could get was that the Influvac was the “upgrade version”.

 

Once I did some reading online about Influvac, I decided to go for it, and went back out to the registration desk. The clinic ‘boss’ was doing the sign ups with paper and pen, just writing down names and ID numbers of the steady stream of candidates. She took one look at me and my ID and said, “sorry not for foreigners”. After I stated that I am Thai and that is why I have A blue Thai ID, she sent an underling to check in the very same computer they had registered me with last year.

 

No go, the search returned a red script error, but didn’t state a reason. It was like SQL error, but did contain the words “no data found”, I snuck a look.

 

The ensuing explanation is that I am “Foreigner” and not eligible for the shot or for “30 Baht Healthcare”. When I tried to respectfully protest that may be wrong, I was told I could go to the provincial hospital and talk to them. 

 

A bit disheartening, for sure! I am not going anywhere near a hospital until Covid dies down!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[THAIJAMES]

Are recent applications in Bangkok being stalled because Police Intelligence is not processing requests from Police Special Branch in Bangkok?

 

Recently I made my citizenship application at Chiang Mai Police Special Branch.   The police officer in charge was extremely helpful and very competent in making sure all the paper work is in order.  I passed the initial test but he warned me that all previous applications for the last year or so have been held back because Police Intelligence refuses to process requests (possibly because of covid).   He mentioned that there is no such problem from other agencies for example ONCB, Interpol, Work department, immigration, etc.

 

I am trying to figure out if the bottle neck is here in Chiang Mai or is it at Police Intelligence in Bangkok, where all applications must eventually be sent?

Edited May 21, 2021 by THAIJAMES

[onthemoon]

2 hours ago, Kwarium said:

Today I learned I am a foreigner with a Thai ID. I completed the naturalization process, getting my blue Thai ID card in 2018, and passport shortly after.

 

Granted, I am out in the boonies, 20km from the nearest 4 lane road. The local gov’t. health clinic is organizing annual flu shots today, so I masked up and headed over, curious about what was on offer. I had previosly ‘registered’ with them whereby they plugged my ID into a card reader and completed information in the gov’t. database. (Nhso.go.th)

 

They took me in and showed me the vaccine, Influvac 2021, by Abbott. It is a trivalent, meaning it protects against two A strains and 1 B strain. They also have an unbranded Thai ‘flu vaccine’ in tiny vials which they are divvying up into 4ths for the over 65 villagers. The only clarification I could get was that the Influvac was the “upgrade version”.

 

Once I did some reading online about Influvac, I decided to go for it, and went back out to the -registration desk. The clinic ‘boss’ was doing the sign ups with paper and pen, just writing down names and ID numbers of the steady stream of candidates. She took one look at me and my ID and said, “sorry not for foreigners”. After I stated that I am Thai and that is why I have A blue Thai ID, she sent an underling to check in the very same computer they had registered me with last year.

 

No go, the search returned a red script error, but didn’t state a reason. It was like SQL error, but did contain the words “no data found”, I snuck a look.

 

The ensuing explanation is that I am “Foreigner” and not eligible for the shot or for “30 Baht Healthcare”. When I tried to respectfully protest that may be wrong, I was told I could go to the provincial hospital and talk to them. 

 

A bit disheartening, for sure! I am not going anywhere near a hospital until Covid dies down!

 

Call to the Ministry of the Interior at 02-791-7332. This is the department in charge of naturalisation. Tell them that this government office does not believe that you are a Thai citizen, and give them the name and direct telephone number of that supervisor. They will mot likely give them a friendly phone call.

 

Note: The MoI will ask you for your ID number, so have it ready.

[Kwarium]

5 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

 

Call to the Ministry of the Interior at 02-791-7332. This is the department in charge of naturalisation. Tell them that this government office does not believe that you are a Thai citizen, and give them the name and direct telephone number of that supervisor. They will mot likely give them a friendly phone call.

 

Note: The MoI will ask you for your ID number, so have it ready.

Sounds like a great plan... B. I should probably check in with the provincial medical people, e.g. gov’t hospital, to see if they can enter me into the system.

 

Crapping on the local clinic out here in the sticks could be a last resort. Thanks for the idea though!