Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, stament said:

8 years, WHOA there was me thinking 4.5 years for a married man who has obtained 3 years of tax receipts.  Why is the application process so lengthy?

 

 

That's the most it could take, the earliest being 5 years, which I think is pretty good, on a par with other countries.

 

 

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, stament said:

8 years, WHOA there was me thinking 4.5 years for a married man who has obtained 3 years of tax receipts.  Why is the application process so lengthy?

 

 

If you have already been married for a minimum of 3 years (assuming no kids) and 3 years tax receipts under your belt, then around 4 years seems to be the current time frame, counting from filing the application with SB.   

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, stament said:

8 years, WHOA there was me thinking 4.5 years for a married man who has obtained 3 years of tax receipts.  Why is the application process so lengthy?

 

 

Whether that's lengthy or not depends on your point of view. I am not married and had to get PR first: 3 years on the same WP until application for PR, 6 years from applying to getting PR, waiting until the PR was 5 years old = 14 years before I could apply for citizenship. I expect it to take another 4-5 years until I have my Thai ID in hand. ????

[yankee99]

2 hours ago, stament said:

8 years, WHOA there was me thinking 4.5 years for a married man who has obtained 3 years of tax receipts.  Why is the application process so lengthy?

 

 

Like others have said only 3-4 years after submitting the application 

[stament]

4 hours ago, yankee99 said:

Like others have said only 3-4 years after submitting the application 

Do you still need to meet all the requirements after the application has been submitted, for example if you met the criteria for tax returns at the point of submitting but then didn't work or worked less would this invalidate the application? i.e. does the rules apply going forward as well as at the point of submitting if you see what I mean.

[stament]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

If you have already been married for a minimum of 3 years (assuming no kids) and 3 years tax receipts under your belt, then around 4 years seems to be the current time frame, counting from filing the application with SB.   

What if you are married with kids does that make a difference?

[GarryP]

7 minutes ago, stament said:

What if you are married with kids does that make a difference?

According to yankee99, if you have Thai children, only 1 year of marriage is sufficient.    

[GarryP]

30 minutes ago, stament said:

Do you still need to meet all the requirements after the application has been submitted, for example if you met the criteria for tax returns at the point of submitting but then didn't work or worked less would this invalidate the application? i.e. does the rules apply going forward as well as at the point of submitting if you see what I mean.

You still need to maintain your work permit throughout the process. Likewise, if you divorced during the process, you would cease to qualify (this has happened to a poster on this thread).

[stament]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

According to yankee99, if you have Thai children, only 1 year of marriage is sufficient.    

Sigh, still 3 year's of tax returns. I've been married over 14 years and kids over 9 years....

[stament]

Interested to know if anyone has been successful in Chiang Mai

[Neeranam]

13 hours ago, stament said:

Do you still need to meet all the requirements after the application has been submitted, for example if you met the criteria for tax returns at the point of submitting but then didn't work or worked less would this invalidate the application? i.e. does the rules apply going forward as well as at the point of submitting if you see what I mean.

In theory, yes, but actually I was only asked for my WP at the initial application at Special Branch, then at the NIA interview the following month. 

 

[heiri007]

In whatever way you look at it, it has become much easier to get Thai citizenship than in the past. I think the new laws were introduced sometime 2008 or around then. The most difficult part it seems now is to get the MOI interview. Once that's secured, one has to really screw up things to not pass.

[DrJoy]

13 hours ago, stament said:

Interested to know if anyone has been successful in Chiang Mai

I have never seen anyone with a Chiang Mai address in the RG. Maybe Joe can confirm

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

I have never seen anyone with a Chiang Mai address in the RG. Maybe Joe can confirm

The one that I am aware of was a lady that did it in Chiang Mai. I think people have done it before there. 

[yankee99]

41 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

I have never seen anyone with a Chiang Mai address in the RG. Maybe Joe can confirm

I believe there was one Chonburi address in last rg and all the rest were in bkk

[DrJoy]

22 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The one that I am aware of was a lady that did it in Chiang Mai. I think people have done it before there. 

Do you have the link to the RG which mentions Chiang Mai address? Any male candidate from CM?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Do you have the link to the RG which mentions Chiang Mai address? Any male candidate from CM?

I have no link for it. She was moderator at that time.

I can recall some that posted in this topic some time ago.

[Arkady]

49 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Do you have the link to the RG which mentions Chiang Mai address? Any male candidate from CM?

Here you go.  Number 86 on this 2016 list of naturalisations (i.e. all except wives of Thai husbands which are not considered naturalisations) had a Chiang Mai address.  You may find some more recent ones, if you comb through the RG announcements but I don't have 2018-20 on file.  In the 2017 naturalisation announcements I also spotted a Lampang, a Trat and a brace of Nonthaburis.

6.pdf

[david143]

Page 3
2021 / JUNE
4 Candidates in Women List ( Thai husbands) are from Chiang mai

T_0004.PDF

[david143]

FEB/2021
2nd last page 1 Female Candidate From Chiang Mai

T_0003.PDF

[DrJoy]

Thanks David & Arkady

[Smokegreynblues]

I often feel the rules to citizenship aren't up to date with the times, the Foreign Husband amendment was progressive and up with the times, but its been 12 years since, and still doesn't address the many issues that prevail. LGBT people aren't represented, while they may have legitimate relationships. Also, not all men choose to marry, for many reasons- security financial etc., there is no provision of acceptance of a civil partnership. It also seems that citizenship is only availiable to a select few that meet a certain demographic. The income requirements are extremely high as a single male. Plus the PR requirement increases the hurdles. In a country where an average graduate makes 24k/month in Bangkok. Asking for a 80-120k salary, is about attracting a rich demographic/or discouraging applicants. Deterring the single male, and making it a niche thing to posses. While nothing is there for a woman. If this isn't sexism, I don't know what is. I know I am bashing this, but someone has to say it. This thread has so many people, who in their quest to naturalize often overlook the negatives, because the positives far outweigh the negatives. If any policy maker reads this thread, it would help to make amendments, amendments as to length of stays say 10-20 Years (Like every other sane country, which provides some level of social stability, after all its social stability that people apply for citizenship anyway)  rather than a high income to qualify. Yes, I am sour. Unmarried and yes, I don't make the income requirement to qualify for PR and hence citizenship. 

[DrJoy]

14 minutes ago, Smokegreynblues said:

I often feel the rules to citizenship aren't up to date with the times, the Foreign Husband amendment was progressive and up with the times, but its been 12 years since, and still doesn't address the many issues that prevail. LGBT people aren't represented, while they may have legitimate relationships. Also, not all men choose to marry, for many reasons- security financial etc., there is no provision of acceptance of a civil partnership. It also seems that citizenship is only availiable to a select few that meet a certain demographic. The income requirements are extremely high as a single male. Plus the PR requirement increases the hurdles. In a country where an average graduate makes 24k/month in Bangkok. Asking for a 80-120k salary, is about attracting a rich demographic/or discouraging applicants. Deterring the single male, and making it a niche thing to posses. While nothing is there for a woman. If this isn't sexism, I don't know what is. I know I am bashing this, but someone has to say it. This thread has so many people, who in their quest to naturalize often overlook the negatives, because the positives far outweigh the negatives. If any policy maker reads this thread, it would help to make amendments, amendments as to length of stays say 10-20 Years (Like every other sane country, which provides some level of social stability, after all its social stability that people apply for citizenship anyway)  rather than a high income to qualify. Yes, I am sour. Unmarried and yes, I don't make the income requirement to qualify for PR and hence citizenship. 

Same sex marriages are not recognised is Thailand. LGBTs cannot get married in the amphur/khet

[yankee99]

2 hours ago, Smokegreynblues said:

I often feel the rules to citizenship aren't up to date with the times, the Foreign Husband amendment was progressive and up with the times, but its been 12 years since, and still doesn't address the many issues that prevail. LGBT people aren't represented, while they may have legitimate relationships. Also, not all men choose to marry, for many reasons- security financial etc., there is no provision of acceptance of a civil partnership. It also seems that citizenship is only availiable to a select few that meet a certain demographic. The income requirements are extremely high as a single male. Plus the PR requirement increases the hurdles. In a country where an average graduate makes 24k/month in Bangkok. Asking for a 80-120k salary, is about attracting a rich demographic/or discouraging applicants. Deterring the single male, and making it a niche thing to posses. While nothing is there for a woman. If this isn't sexism, I don't know what is. I know I am bashing this, but someone has to say it. This thread has so many people, who in their quest to naturalize often overlook the negatives, because the positives far outweigh the negatives. If any policy maker reads this thread, it would help to make amendments, amendments as to length of stays say 10-20 Years (Like every other sane country, which provides some level of social stability, after all its social stability that people apply for citizenship anyway)  rather than a high income to qualify. Yes, I am sour. Unmarried and yes, I don't make the income requirement to qualify for PR and hence citizenship. 

I cant begrudge Thailand for wanting a certain standard to become citizens 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

7 hours ago, Smokegreynblues said:

Deterring the single male, and making it a niche thing to posses. While nothing is there for a woman. If this isn't sexism, I don't know what is.

I don't want to go into details because the point of this forum is to help citizenship applicants and not discuss the laws of Thailand. I will just mention that beside some differences in the process (yes there are some), foreign women are also requested to either be married to a Thai national either hold PR, this is the same base requirement as to foreign men.

[Arkady]

11 hours ago, Smokegreynblues said:

I often feel the rules to citizenship aren't up to date with the times, the Foreign Husband amendment was progressive and up with the times, but its been 12 years since, and still doesn't address the many issues that prevail. LGBT people aren't represented, while they may have legitimate relationships. Also, not all men choose to marry, for many reasons- security financial etc., there is no provision of acceptance of a civil partnership. It also seems that citizenship is only availiable to a select few that meet a certain demographic. The income requirements are extremely high as a single male. Plus the PR requirement increases the hurdles. In a country where an average graduate makes 24k/month in Bangkok. Asking for a 80-120k salary, is about attracting a rich demographic/or discouraging applicants. Deterring the single male, and making it a niche thing to posses. While nothing is there for a woman. If this isn't sexism, I don't know what is. I know I am bashing this, but someone has to say it. This thread has so many people, who in their quest to naturalize often overlook the negatives, because the positives far outweigh the negatives. If any policy maker reads this thread, it would help to make amendments, amendments as to length of stays say 10-20 Years (Like every other sane country, which provides some level of social stability, after all its social stability that people apply for citizenship anyway)  rather than a high income to qualify. Yes, I am sour. Unmarried and yes, I don't make the income requirement to qualify for PR and hence citizenship. 

I think we all have sympathy for those who would like to obtain citizenship or PR but don't qualify but this is not the right forum to lobby for it. Realistically politicians and government officials are not combing AN to get ideas for reforms. Demands for reforms to the Nationality Act can only come from various domestic special interest groups. The amendment in favour of foreign men married to Thai women in 2008 was lobbied for extensively by Thai women's groups over a period of years and was eventually pushed through by a lady Democrat MP.  The amendment that allowed Thai mothers to pass their nationality to their children in 1992 was also lobbied for by women's groups.  The amendment that allowed half Thais to keep both their nationalities, also in 1992, was lobbied for by influential persons with half Thai children.  Amendments that allowed children born in Thailand to foreign persons born in Thailand to foreign or stateless persons without PR to get citizenship were lobbied for by NGOs.  No doubt LGBT groups will lobby for partners' citizenship rights in future but but they need to successfully lobby for a civil partnership law first.  

 

I am sure that many people in the thread agree that it is unfortunate that more people don't qualify for PR but, again, this is not a useful place to lobby for changes to PR rules. In fact it is not even a thread about PR.  The rules for citizenship are actually sexist in favour of women, since foreign women married to Thais have a much lower bar than foreign men married to Thais.  As far as single women not married to Thais, are concerned the rules are exactly the same as for single men not married to Thais. However, foreign women married to foreign men who get PR have an advantage, since they are able to piggyback on their husbands and apply for PR without having to meet the requirements themselves. This is also true of foreign women who marry foreign men who naturalise as Thai citizens. They can apply for Thai citizenship on the same easy terms as foreign women married to men who are Thai from birth. 

 

Unfortunately Thailand stopped seeing itself as a country of immigration in the early 50s when it deliberately implemented measures to stem the flow of Chinese immigration in the wake of the communist takeover of China. Prior to that it was relatively easy to obtain PR and at one point before WW2 Chinese labourers, who could prove they had a profession and were able to support themselves could apply for PR when they arrived at the docks. But in the 50s they introduced the quotas of 100 per nationality, increased the fees and started to raise the bar on qualifications and salaries, specifically to keep the Chinese out.  That mentality has stuck in relation to all nationalities until today, although the Chinese coolies have been replaced by up to 4 million migrant workers from neighbouring countries and Thais in general definitely don't want to give rights of PR or citizenship to these labourers. 

 

Looking around Asia, citizenship is easier to obtain in Thailand than any other country, as far as I know, while PR is also probably easier to obtain than most, except maybe Hong Kong belongership which is a left over from British colonial days that will eventually be rubbed out by China where PR is extraordinarily difficult to obtain. It may not be a perfect or modern Western approach but Thailand chooses to give preference to foreigners who have Thai family and those they consider to be contributing by having higher paid executive jobs. When you look at things like the Elite card and the current proposal for 10 year visas for wealthy foreigners, the thrust of bureaucratic thinking seems firmly in that direction, and given the large number of low paid migrant workers, is likely to remain so. If we look at Western countries, many things are much worse. British expats can no longer expect to get settlement visas for their foreign wives in the UK on retirement, unless they can show pension income of GBP 17,500 a year which is in excess of the state pension and the UK enthusiastically deports foreign spouses who don't qualify, famously deporting a foreign husband with young children who was a British army veteran and had served in Iraq. Many Americans and other Westerners are also unable to get visas for their foreign wives to live with them in their home country which may be far more welcoming to refugees.  While getting PR in Western countries, once you are legitimately there, is often easier than in Thailand, getting in is often much harder in the first place.  Work permits are usually hard to obtain and the requirement for those wishing to settle in the UK without working is to invest GBP 500,000 which, as in Thailand, doesn't take into account average income or wealth in the UK.  Many Thais and people of other nationalities, even those married to Brits, have found it impossible to obtain PR in the UK, since they introduced the life in Britain test which is extraordinarily difficult for someone who is not totally steeped in British culture with very fluent English.  Since PR is a prerequisite for citizenship, they are also barred from citizenship by the test.  In contrast, no knowledge of Thai is required for spouses of Thais to qualify for Thai citizenship and the life in Thailand test is a cinch.

[DrJoy]

12 hours ago, Smokegreynblues said:

I often feel the rules to citizenship aren't up to date with the times, the Foreign Husband amendment was progressive and up with the times, but its been 12 years since, and still doesn't address the many issues that prevail. LGBT people aren't represented, while they may have legitimate relationships. Also, not all men choose to marry, for many reasons- security financial etc., there is no provision of acceptance of a civil partnership. It also seems that citizenship is only availiable to a select few that meet a certain demographic. The income requirements are extremely high as a single male. Plus the PR requirement increases the hurdles. In a country where an average graduate makes 24k/month in Bangkok. Asking for a 80-120k salary, is about attracting a rich demographic/or discouraging applicants. Deterring the single male, and making it a niche thing to posses. While nothing is there for a woman. If this isn't sexism, I don't know what is. I know I am bashing this, but someone has to say it. This thread has so many people, who in their quest to naturalize often overlook the negatives, because the positives far outweigh the negatives. If any policy maker reads this thread, it would help to make amendments, amendments as to length of stays say 10-20 Years (Like every other sane country, which provides some level of social stability, after all its social stability that people apply for citizenship anyway)  rather than a high income to qualify. Yes, I am sour. Unmarried and yes, I don't make the income requirement to qualify for PR and hence citizenship. 

Why don't you open a company, start paying 80k salary to yourself and after 3 years apply PR and eventually Citizenship?

[david143]

today i was talking to my SB case officer, he said within this month we will get our Certificates, SB is waiting from MOI for approved RG candidates list so they can issue Certificates.

 

[sinthavee]

42 minutes ago, david143 said:

today i was talking to my SB case officer, he said within this month we will get our Certificates, SB is waiting from MOI for approved RG candidates list so they can issue Certificates.

 

That is a very good news for all the Aug 2020 batch members awaiting almost a year. Hope, Apr 2021 batch persons also are able to get their certificates subsequently.

 Congrats & Best wishes.

[heiri007]

49 minutes ago, david143 said:

today i was talking to my SB case officer, he said within this month we will get our Certificates, SB is waiting from MOI for approved RG candidates list so they can issue Certificates.

 

With a batch of 112 approvals, they got lots of writing to do! Wishing us speedy work ????