Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[heiri007]

3 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

It was me, not DrJoy, who used the e-gates. As per Yankee99, there are 3 different immigration halls. A good point. I don't know if they're working at all of them. I used the outbound / inbound halls I've circled on the airport map.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback @BKKBike09. After an about 1,5 km walk from the gate I used the main Arrival 1, could indeed explain that I wasn't hallucinating handing over that passport to the official who wasn't able to speak a full sentence. The only word he muttered: "krueang." Of course, I said, I arrived by "krueang." He did not think it's funny. Now I know, he just wanted the flight no.

 

[khongaeng]

On 11/19/2022 at 1:53 PM, heiri007 said:

Thanks for the feedback @BKKBike09. After an about 1,5 km walk from the gate I used the main Arrival 1, could indeed explain that I wasn't hallucinating handing over that passport to the official who wasn't able to speak a full sentence. The only word he muttered: "krueang." Of course, I said, I arrived by "krueang." He did not think it's funny. Now I know, he just wanted the flight no.

 

I usually just hand them my boarding pass and they get the flight number they are looking for.  They always write the flight number above the entry stamp.  If they don't get the flight number, it causes them great frustration.

 

For those that are worried about immigration knowing that you came from your previous nationality country, I have never been asked for previous boarding passes, so for instance if I flew from Frankfurt via Dubai, they never ask to see the Frankfurt to Dubai flight, only the Dubai to BKK flight.  I now have 8 stamps in and out with my Thai passport with no entry stamps or visas to any other country in my Thai passport.  I have never been asked why I don't have any visas in my Thai passport or why I don't have stamps from anywhere else.  

[heiri007]

On 11/21/2022 at 9:04 AM, khongaeng said:

I usually just hand them my boarding pass and they get the flight number they are looking for.  They always write the flight number above the entry stamp.  If they don't get the flight number, it causes them great frustration.

 

For those that are worried about immigration knowing that you came from your previous nationality country, I have never been asked for previous boarding passes, so for instance if I flew from Frankfurt via Dubai, they never ask to see the Frankfurt to Dubai flight, only the Dubai to BKK flight.  I now have 8 stamps in and out with my Thai passport with no entry stamps or visas to any other country in my Thai passport.  I have never been asked why I don't have any visas in my Thai passport or why I don't have stamps from anywhere else.  

Strangely enough he seemed to type something, obviously the flight number, into the system, but no writing above or below the entry stamp.

 

It's just noteworthy that at the same airport you have different arrival procedures ????

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed.

 

[rsskga]

Any updates on how new applicants should apply for citizenship? The Special Branch instructions for applying through a Thai husband are still up on their website. I'm unable to read the text embedded in the image right now on the BORA subdomain of the DOPA site, but it also seems the same as it was last year. The list of links for all application types is here.

 

My husband and I just returned to Thailand after six months in the U.S., and will be ready for me to apply very soon (just need to move our Tabien Baan from Phitsanulok to Bangkok, which we're happy to do even if strictly unnecessary since we are actually living in Bangkok now). I'll have my husband reach out to the officer at the Special Branch that we spoke with in April 2022 later today, and will report back if we learn anything pertinent.

[Arkady]

9 hours ago, rsskga said:

Any updates on how new applicants should apply for citizenship? The Special Branch instructions for applying through a Thai husband are still up on their website. I'm unable to read the text embedded in the image right now on the BORA subdomain of the DOPA site, but it also seems the same as it was last year. The list of links for all application types is here.

 

My husband and I just returned to Thailand after six months in the U.S., and will be ready for me to apply very soon (just need to move our Tabien Baan from Phitsanulok to Bangkok, which we're happy to do even if strictly unnecessary since we are actually living in Bangkok now). I'll have my husband reach out to the officer at the Special Branch that we spoke with in April 2022 later today, and will report back if we learn anything pertinent.

At the end of last year the Interior Ministry was working on the new ministerial regulation that will turn the whole process over to the Interior Ministry, pursuant to the cabinet resolution to that effect in early 2022. They said the new ministerial would be ready to announce in the Royal Gazette in early 2023 but it hasn't appeared yet. The links you posted still reference the previous ministerial regulation of 1967 and the guidelines issued under that regulation which were last updated in 2009.

 

Since everything always gets progressively harder in terms of immigration and citizenship, it will probably be preferable to apply to Special Branch in Bangkok, if you have time to do that before they get cut out of the process.

 

The Interior Ministry nationality section moved from Bangkok to Lamlukka, where the interviews are now conducted, a few years ago but Lamlukka is in Pathum Thani province.  Since the cabinet resolution said that applicants would applly to the MOI in their province of residence, they may have to set up a new application centre for Bangkok, or maybe Lamlukka will handle Bangkok and surrounding provinces.  SB may even continue handling Bkk applications until they can set up alternative arrangements. If the the ministerial regulation is like the 1967 regulation and lacks sufficient detail, they may need to draft new guidelines, once the new regulation is gazetted.  The current guidelines that had to be revised because of the 2008 amendments to the Nationality Act, took them about a year after the amendment was published. 

 

So there are still many uncertainties about the new regulations at this point. If you search for สัญชาติไทย  regularly in the Royal Gazette's search function, you may be one of the first to see the new regulation when it is announced.  From your perspective it is unlikely that anything much will change for foreign women applying to adopt their husbands' Thai nationality, except perhaps the place of application. However, since income levels have not been revised for a while and I think they weren't even raised in the 2009 guidelines (or at least not materially), it is possible that these may be raised. For your category Thai husbands in the 2009 guidelines are required to show income of 20,000 a month, supported by prior year tax receipts.  This can be supplemented by your own income. If your husband is going to file a PNG 90 or 91 for Thai income tax for 2022, despite being abroad for part of the year, you should be able to apply as soon as you have his tax return and/or your own certified by the Revenue Department.  They may already be open for filings, as they usually open in early January.  

[Damrongsak]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:49 AM, qualtrough said:

Update to my earlier post. I flew out and back into Thailand with my Thai passport without any issue, so my worries about having no 'official' visa cancellation were unwarranted, as several of you pointed out.

 

I will tell you something that feels really good. Getting off an 11 hour flight, walking past the foreign immigration line with a 30-40 minute wait, and walking up to the Thai immigration line to find just one person ahead of you. IMHO that's worth all the effort of obtaining citizenship alone, not to mention all the other benefits.

Back in early September a buddy of mine and our Thai wives used the Thai line which was empty.  Perhaps one of the gals asked if it was OK.  We both had eVisas.

 

When I returned to the U.S. I had to wait in line over 2 hours at Washington Dulles airport.  There were hundreds of people in each of two lines.  The line for citizens/permanent residents had ONE officer.  The line for foreign visitors had about 3 officers. 

[rsskga]

On 1/17/2023 at 2:29 PM, Arkady said:

If you search for สัญชาติไทย  regularly in the Royal Gazette's search function, you may be one of the first to see the new regulation when it is announced.

Excellent, I will do this.

 

Quote

If your husband is going to file a PNG 90 or 91 for Thai income tax for 2022, despite being abroad for part of the year, you should be able to apply as soon as you have his tax return and/or your own certified by the Revenue Department.  They may already be open for filings, as they usually open in early January.  

Fortunately, we've already done this for 2021 based on the advice we received from the Special Branch officer last year. We'll continue filing yearly now. The final piece for us is moving our Tabien Baan from Phitsanulok to Krung Thep, which we hope to accomplish next week. Then we'll submit the application!

 

Thank you very much for your detailed, informative reply. Much appreciated!

[Arkady]

I noticed a follow up in the Post regarding the Chinese owner of Club One in Pattaya who is being sought by Thai police following a raid in October (see link to original story below).  What is interesting in the story for this thread is that the Post reported that the Interior Ministry had revoked his Thai citizenship.  Someone must have told a Post reporter this, or that proceedings might be initiated to revoke his Thai citizenship (assuming that he really is a bona fide Thai citizen). However, I have just conducted a search in the RG and there are no recent announcements of revocations of citizenship.  therefore the Post report is not true, at least not yet.

 

With the current story about Chinese criminals getting hold of Thai citizenship through the proper channels, albeit perhaps with short cuts, rather than the traditional Day of the Jackal derived method involving paying corrupt district officials to issue them an ID card of a Thai citizen who has disappeared from the records, the issue of revocation of citizenship of naturalised Thais who misbehave could come more to the fore.  I am of the opinion that it is not as easy as the Post implied to revoke citizenship. One clear cut way would be a through a court order when someone is convicted of a serious crime but, in this case, there has obviously been no trial. Short of a court trial it would possible for Special Branch to put up a case to the ministry that someone has lied about his criminal record or paid off the Thai criminal records department and/or Interpol liaison office to overlook a criminal record. But this would normally require a lengthy process and the raid only took place three months ago. Given the case of the couple accused of running a gambling den who got their Thai citizenship restored by the Supreme Administrative Court after a 16 year legal battle, I imagine Special Branch and the Interior Ministry would be quite careful about following due process.

 

The other thing about Chinese from mainland China is that, if they have played things by the book, they (and didn't pay off Chinese officials to look the other way) would have renounced their Chinese citizenship. So revoking their Thai citizenship would involve a diplomatic process with China to get China to restore their Chinese citizenship and accept deportation.  This something we may see with the better known "Tuhao", since he will go on trial for a laundry list of serious crimes, any one of which could merit a court order for revocation of Thai citizenship.   

 

I think this topic if of interest to naturalised Thais and applicants, as most people wonder how safe their Thai citizenship will be once they have obtained it. My opinion is that revocation of citizenship is not something the MOI does lightly. In fact, while there have been many cases of revocation of citizenship of people who were born in the Kingdom to alien parents, I don't believe there is even a single record of revocation of citizenship of a naturalised Thai.  That may of course change soon.

 

https://thepattayanews.com/2022/10/24/update-thai-police-hunt-for-alleged-real-owner-of-raided-club-one-pattaya-eye-5-year-closure/

[Neeranam]

16 hours ago, Arkady said:

My opinion is that revocation of citizenship is not something the MOI does lightly. In fact, while there have been many cases of revocation of citizenship of people who were born in the Kingdom to alien parents, I don't believe there is even a single record of revocation of citizenship of a naturalised Thai. 

Thanks Arkady, this is reassuring. There has been some scaremongering about how some have had their citizenship revoked for using their former passport in the Thailand. Seems that this is probably only for those you mentioned - dual citizens born to foreigners before 1980 or so. 

[rsskga]

I’m reading about intensive Thai language programs and of course have come across Chula’s. Now I’m wondering, how does acquisition of citizenship impact one’s ability to enroll in higher education programs and their associated costs?

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, rsskga said:

I’m reading about intensive Thai language programs and of course have come across Chula’s. Now I’m wondering, how does acquisition of citizenship impact one’s ability to enroll in higher education programs and their associated costs?

It has no impact whatsoever. I completed my MBA (in English) and my PhD (in Thai) here in Thailand, and I paid the same as Thai students did.

 

One a side note: In Thailand, you can study on any visa you have. The ED visa exists only for those who do not have any other visa but would like to study in Thailand.

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, onthemoon said:

It has no impact whatsoever. I completed my MBA (in English) and my PhD (in Thai) here in Thailand, and I paid the same as Thai students did.

Unlike the UK's dual pricing policy-they charge foreign students more. Actually, they even charge their own citizens more if they haven't been resident there for a couple of years previous to studying. 

 

 

[Dogmatix]

47 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Unlike the UK's dual pricing policy-they charge foreign students more. Actually, they even charge their own citizens more if they haven't been resident there for a couple of years previous to studying. 

 

 

The UK discrimination is quite pernicious because all decent unis there are state controlled and therefore apply the dual pricing. The US does it but I think residents' prices only apply to state residents in state colleges, which seems more acceptable.  

 

No benefits in this for getting Thai citizenship but no discrimination either.

[onthemoon]

16 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Unlike the UK's dual pricing policy-they charge foreign students more. Actually, they even charge their own citizens more if they haven't been resident there for a couple of years previous to studying. 

I studied for an MSc in the UK and was told at the time that the government subsidises the tuition fees from tax money. Since non-residents don't pay taxes, they have to pay full price. Made sense to me.

[rsskga]

On 1/25/2023 at 5:10 PM, Dogmatix said:

No benefits in this for getting Thai citizenship but no discrimination either.

Ok, yes, as an American I was assuming that higher education would be more expensive for non-Thais than Thais.

 

It's true that Americans who attend state schools outside their own state of residency are charged higher tuition, but there can also be many mitigating factors to lower these costs including need-based grants, merit-based scholarships, etc. I'm not an expert on the matter (speaking from personal experience and mere suspicion), but I believe many of these cost-savings are unavailable to non-American students.

 

Thanks to all for helping clarify.

[lomtalay]

Thanks everyone for the updates. I've read the last few pages and it now seems that the 'no criminal record' and 'certificate of legal age' documents are no longer needed. Can anyone provide me with (a link to) an updated list of documents/requirements needed in order to apply for citizenship? 

 

My wife went to SB at Police Headquarters (Rama I) today and was told that they no longer handle applications. Any update yet on where the documents need to be submitted? TIA!

[david143]

2 minutes ago, lomtalay said:

Thanks everyone for the updates. I've read the last few pages and it now seems that the 'no criminal record' and 'certificate of legal age' documents are no longer needed. Can anyone provide me with (a link to) an updated list of documents/requirements needed in order to apply for citizenship? 

 

My wife went to SB at Police Headquarters (Rama I) today and was told that they no longer handle applications. Any update yet on where the documents need to be submitted? TIA!

oh Wow it means SB is not taking anymore, but anyone know where is the RG for this Law

 

[david143]

3 minutes ago, david143 said:

oh Wow it means SB is not taking anymore, but anyone know where is the RG for this Law

 

I just talk to my SB friend and he said they are still taking cases

how and why SB staff told your wife that they are not taking case anymore Brother

 

[david143]

there is a number of SB you can call yourself too,

[lomtalay]

Really appreciate this! Thanks!

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, david143 said:

there is a number of SB you can call yourself too,

Although the legal age certificate is on this list, they recognise it is ridiculous in most cases and are unlikely to ask for it. You have to check with them before going to the trouble and expense. On the other hand, I believe home country criminal record clearance is requested now, even though I was not asked for it back in 2010.  AFAIK they go to the criminal records office next door with your finger prints and get your Thai criminal record clearance for themselves, or at least that's what happened in my case.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Dogmatix

[DrJoy]

5 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Although the legal age certificate is on this list, they recognise it is ridiculous in most cases and are unlikely to ask for it. You have to check with them before going to the trouble and expense. On the other hand, I believe home country criminal record clearance is requested now, even though I was not asked for it back in 2010.  AFAIK they go to the criminal records office next door with your finger prints and get your Thai criminal record clearance for themselves, or at least that's what happened in my case.

 

6 hours ago, lomtalay said:

I've read the last few pages and it now seems that the 'no criminal record' and 'certificate of legal age' documents are no longer needed

No criminal record (Home Country) and 'certificate of legal age' documents have been done away with since Jan 2022

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, DrJoy said:

 

No criminal record (Home Country) and 'certificate of legal age' documents have been done away with since Jan 2022

Well the home country police clearance has never been on the list of documents anyway and I am not sure they have ever asked for the legal age thingy which is pointless, given the other requirements which are impossible for anyone to obtain by the time they are 21 years old, which must be the highest legal age in effect anywhere.

[Arkady]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:51 AM, Neeranam said:

Thanks Arkady, this is reassuring. There has been some scaremongering about how some have had their citizenship revoked for using their former passport in the Thailand. Seems that this is probably only for those you mentioned - dual citizens born to foreigners before 1980 or so. 

Most of the revocation cases in the RG were those who had citizenship through birth in Thailand to two alien parents who stayed outside Thailand for more than 5 years creating a presumption they were using the citizenship of their fathers, as per the wording of the Act, without the need to show further evidence.  Most were probably Thai Chinese sent to study in China.  I can only remember one case specifically for "making use of or taking an interest in" of father's citizenship.  That was the British missionary doctor, Thai through birth in Thailand to alien parents (presumably also missionaries) whose 2004 case has been discussed before in this thread.  The evidence cited in the RG was that he used his British passport to enter Thailand.  Note that the wording for naturalized Thais is "former citizenship" rather than "father's citizenship".  Who knows how this case transpired, why he used his British passport and how they got on to him or why it couldn't be resolved. I believe he is still alive and in Thailand.  Maybe he even became a naturalised Thai but no further information is available.

[qualtrough]

The activity on this thread seems to me to have really dropped off in recent months, with sometimes a week or more between posts. Am I just imagining that, or are there really many fewer contributions now? Back last year prior to my obtaining citizenship things seemed much busier. If that is the case, anyone have any ideas why that may be the case? Are fewer people interested? Are there more alternative information sources, or?

Edited February 15, 2023 by qualtrough

[rsskga]

I'm definitely still here!

 

The transfer of the condo that my father-in-law owned to my husband has been completed. We'll be going to visit my in-laws this weekend to collect the paperwork and update our Tabien Baans to Bangkok so that I can file my application with Special Branch.

 

I was a little surprised that I needed to sign some of the documents related to the condo transfer. To be honest, I'm unsure what I signed. I imagine it has something to do with how marital property works in Thailand, but since this was a gift between father and son and I have no investment at stake, I didn't ask too many questions. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me though?

 

What is the recommended way to package all the documents when submitting the application?

[yankee99]

20 minutes ago, qualtrough said:

The activity on this thread seems to me to have really dropped off in recent months, with sometimes a week or more between posts. Am I just imagining that, or are there really many fewer contributions now? Back last year prior to my obtaining citizenship things seemed much busier. If that is the case, anyone have any ideas why that may be the case? Are fewer people interested? Are there more alternative information sources, or?

not sure but a friend of mine has been waiting right at 2 years now for his moi interview . Wondering if things are slowing up?

[ubonr1971]

6 minutes ago, rsskga said:

I was a little surprised that I needed to sign some of the documents related to the condo transfer. To be honest, I'm unsure what I signed

If you are married to a thai its normal that the spouse has to sign docs to that effect in relation to the transfer at the land office. We just bought land and I had to sign as its all in my wifes name. 

 

In the future you should download google translate and click on the camera. Take a photo and you have automatic translations to English. Problem solved

[ubonr1971]

On 2/8/2023 at 8:48 PM, Arkady said:

Most of the revocation cases in the RG were those who had citizenship through birth in Thailand to two alien parents who stayed outside Thailand for more than 5 years creating a presumption they were using the citizenship of their fathers, as per the wording of the Act, without the need to show further evidence.  Most were probably Thai Chinese sent to study in China.  I can only remember one case specifically for "making use of or taking an interest in" of father's citizenship.  That was the British missionary doctor, Thai through birth in Thailand to alien parents (presumably also missionaries) whose 2004 case has been discussed before in this thread.  The evidence cited in the RG was that he used his British passport to enter Thailand.  Note that the wording for naturalized Thais is "former citizenship" rather than "father's citizenship".  Who knows how this case transpired, why he used his British passport and how they got on to him or why it couldn't be resolved. I believe he is still alive and in Thailand.  Maybe he even became a naturalised Thai but no further information is available.

Can I ask a question in relation to the list of docs required above?

 

Item 11 says 'copy of proof of company registration for the commercial establishment where one works'

 

My wife and I have a small medical business but we decided to not to have company structure. We operate the business through her personal name and she pays taxes every 6 months. I have a WP.  Do you know if this is going to be an issue when I try and apply next year. Should I go to SB next time Im in bkk and ask them. If they say its mandatory then I suppose we can open a company this year but then its going to state the date of incorporation etc. 

 

If anyone knows about this technicality could you please help me

thanks