Sinovac vaccine of questionable efficacy

[Isaan Alan]

It's currently the only way to get a visa for China but there are serious doubts about the efficacy of the Sinovac vaccine. 

"The rare admission of weakness on the part of Beijing’s pandemic approach came from the director of the China Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Gao F. u , who said Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates”."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/11/china-considers-mixing-covid-vaccines-to-give-greater-protection

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Isaan Alan
his name got deleted 55

[ukrules]

This vaccine is built using a human adenovirus as a delivery method which based on something I read last year suggested that about 50% of people have an immune system that's already been exposed to it (the human adenovirus).

 

That means it will be destroyed by the immune system on sight in 50% of people

 

This is why it sucks.

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by ukrules

[gearbox]

11 minutes ago, ukrules said:

This vaccine is built using a human adenovirus as a delivery method which based on something I read last year suggested that about 50% of people have an immune system that's already been exposed to it (the human adenovirus).

 

That means it will be destroyed by the immune system on sight in 50% of people

 

This is why it sucks.

 

Huh, do you have the AZ vaccine in mind? AZ is an adenovirus vaccine, Sinovac is an inactivated virus vaccine.  And yes, AZ sucks. Sinovac is not that effective too, but is old and proven to be safe technology. 

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Huh, do you have the AZ vaccine in mind? AZ is an adenovirus vaccine, Sinovac is an inactivated virus vaccine.  And yes, AZ sucks. Sinovac is not that effective too, but is old and proven to be safe technology. 

You've obviously got a dislike for AZ vaccine, no problem just don't take it, I'm more than happy to take it over the sinovac being as they are the only two choices in Thailand currently.

[ukrules]

18 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Huh, do you have the AZ vaccine in mind? AZ is an adenovirus vaccine, Sinovac is an inactivated virus vaccine.  And yes, AZ sucks. Sinovac is not that effective too, but is old and proven to be safe technology. 

No, I'm thinking of the Ad5 using CanSinoBIO vaccine, I guess that's another of their failed vaccines which also has the same 50% efficacy

 

AZ uses a Chimp adenovirus

[Bkk Brian]

45 minutes ago, Isaan Alan said:

Disease Control and Prevention, Gao F. u , who said Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates”."

Yes that was also echoed by an expert here in Thailand saying it is performing very badly against the new variant here.

[pseudorabies]

12 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Huh, do you have the AZ vaccine in mind? AZ is an adenovirus vaccine, Sinovac is an inactivated virus vaccine.  And yes, AZ sucks. Sinovac is not that effective too, but is old and proven to be safe technology. 

I see Sinovac's method as quick and dirty. Modification of amino acid residues make the protein less native.  Using whole virus with it's complete proteome rather than a single protein increases the likelihood of side effects. "Quick, quick, quick" as some of my Chinese colleagues used to say. And dirty.

 

[mommysboy]

23 minutes ago, pseudorabies said:

I see Sinovac's method as quick and dirty. Modification of amino acid residues make the protein less native.  Using whole virus with it's complete proteome rather than a single protein increases the likelihood of side effects. "Quick, quick, quick" as some of my Chinese colleagues used to say. And dirty.

 

 

The AZ vaccine certainly does not suck (as one poster stated) in terms of effectiveness.  It is invaluable in over 60's who are the group that make up 95% of deaths in the UK. It is associated with a rare form of blood clotting in younger patients- that is true. The UK Gov estimates that in 3 months it has prevented up to 10000 premature deaths.

 

The Sinovac appears to be adequate and safe. I have spoken with many people who have had it and one thing I notice is that they report much milder side effects if any at all.  It's effectiveness is questionable imo. It is an attenuated vaccine and thus is akin to the globally accepted flu vaccine.  

 

Both Pfizer and Moderna are the best, but are associated with some particularly vigorous initial side effects.

Edited April 11, 2021 by mommysboy

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

The Sinovac appears to be adequate and safe. I have spoken with many people who have had it and one thing I notice is that they report much milder side effects if any at all.  It's effectiveness is questionable imo. It is an attenuated vaccine and thus is akin to the globally accepted flu vaccine.  

 

I can confirm that, my wife has had first shot of Sinovac last week in Phuket, she felt zero side effects, nothing, she said is this thing working? Then today while she was watching Thai TV they were reporting the news of how Sinovac is of very low efficiency against this new variant here in Thailand and she just looked at me and laughed, then said can we move to the UK.......LOL

[placeholder]

In immunology efficacy and effectiveness are technical terms. Basically they both refer to how well the vaccine works against suppressing any symptoms from arising after a vaccine. But against the development of severe symptoms and in preventing death, the Sinovac virus has been found to work very well.

[shdmn]

50% is better than nothing.  I think it's still almost 100% effect at preventing severe illness and death.

Edited April 11, 2021 by shdmn

[gearbox]

55 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You've obviously got a dislike for AZ vaccine, no problem just don't take it, I'm more than happy to take it over the sinovac being as they are the only two choices in Thailand currently.

I'm very pro-vaxxer and have been inoculated many times. However with AZ, at least at the moment the seed of doubt is sown. Many countries are now hesitant to recommend it. I've chatted with people in a few countries in regards to their vaccinations, and all refuse to vaccinate with AZ.

 

If there is no other choice I certainly will vaccinate with AZ, as IMO the benefits outweigh the risks many times,  but there are other supposedly safer vaccines, and more are coming, so why risk it extra with AZ.

 

By the way the inactivated Chinese vaccines are certainly less effective in regards to virus transmission, but so far most of the results point to preventing nearly 100% hospital admissions. Without serious effects and hospital admission Covid may become just another flu. 

[shdmn]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

Huh, do you have the AZ vaccine in mind? AZ is an adenovirus vaccine, Sinovac is an inactivated virus vaccine.  And yes, AZ sucks. Sinovac is not that effective too, but is old and proven to be safe technology. 

AZ is saving the world from this virus and it is nearly 100% effective at preventing severe illness.  Literally hundreds of millions of shots have been given.  India alone has given about 100 million people the AZ shot.

 

If you think that a one in a million chance of dying from a blood clot is a problem then you can forget about getting the J&J shot as well.  Reports of people developing blood clots from that one too.  There has not been any definitive link made to either one though.  Not yet.

 

If you want to know what one in a million odds looks like.  As I read somewhere else, it's the equivalent to drowing in a bathtub or a plane crashing into your house.  It's also lower than the risk of a woman developing blood clots from taking birth control.

Edited April 11, 2021 by shdmn

[gearbox]

8 minutes ago, shdmn said:

AZ is saving the world from this virus and it is nearly 100% effective at preventing severe illness.  Literally hundreds of millions of shots have been given.  India alone has given about 100 million people the AZ shot.  The UK has given tens of millions.

 

If you think that a 1 in a million chance of dying from a blood clot is a problem then you can forget about getting the J&J shot as well.  Reports of people developing blood clots from that one too.  There has not been any definitive link made to either on though.  Not yet.

 

If you want to know what 1 in a million odds looks like.  As I read somewhere else, it's the equivalent to drowing in the bathtub or a plane crashing into your house.

This is not what our doctors think:

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/doctors-stop-offering-astrazeneca-jabs-over-legal-risk-20210410-p57i5f.html

 

If it was 1 in a million I think they would have taken the chance.

[shdmn]

5 minutes ago, gearbox said:

This is not what our doctors think:

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/doctors-stop-offering-astrazeneca-jabs-over-legal-risk-20210410-p57i5f.html

 

If it was 1 in a million I think they would have taken the chance.

You were in such a hurry to post your FUD I guess you couldn't even be bothered to read your own link.  I mean it says it right there in the link itself.  ????

[gearbox]

4 minutes ago, shdmn said:

You were in such a hurry to post your FUD I guess you couldn't even be bothered to read your own link.  I mean it says it right there in the link itself.  ????

Huh, why would I spread FUD for AZ? I want it to work flawlessly. If all was good and there were no doubts about it, I would have been able to go back to Sydney without quarantine late this year. Fat chance about this happening with the current developments. I talked with people back home and people are mass canceling the AZ appointments. No herd immunity anytime soon.

[Jingthing]

47 minutes ago, shdmn said:

50% is better than nothing.  I think it's still almost 100% effect at preventing severe illness and death.

Please supply a credible source for that assertion. My information says that the Chinese vaccine testing results have not been transparent so why should we trust them?

[shdmn]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Please supply a credible source for that assertion. My information says that the Chinese vaccine testing results have not been transparent so why should we trust them?

So first you demand info then you say all info is not credible.  Ok whatever.  You have obviously already made up your mind.

 

chInESE VaCCine BaD

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, shdmn said:

So first you demand info then you say all info is not credible.  Ok whatever.  You have obviously already made up your mind.

 

chInESE VaCCine BaD

So you can't back it up.

[Moncul]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

Both Pfizer and Moderna are the best, but are associated with some particularly vigorous initial side effects.

 

Of the dozens of people I know who have had Pfizer, most of reported tenderness at the injection area and nothing else (myself included); probably a quarter have reported a nagging headache for hours; and one reported waking up in the middle the night with chills.

Of the dozens of people I know who have had Vaxzevria, probably two thirds have reported varying degrees of nausea and fatigue in addition to pain down the arm.

Of all of them, only one reported the symptoms going into the second day, and that was gone by the end of it.

Are these "vigorous side effects" related to allergy? Because where we are, every vaccination is followed by 30 minutes sitting in a waiting area to see if there are any allergic reactions.
 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Moncul

[Damrongsak]

29 minutes ago, Moncul said:

 

Of the dozens of people I know who have had Pfizer, most of reported tenderness at the injection area and nothing else (myself included); probably a quarter have reported a nagging headache for hours; and one reported waking up in the middle the night with chills. ...
 

I had a little bump from my first shot of Pfizer.  I thought it was a bug bite or something and ignored it.  The gal who gave me the second dose said it had something to do with the diluent or something.  I did have a mild tenderness about 12 hours after my second shot which lasted about 12 hours.  I think the hair on my ear lobes is growing faster, but that may be my imagination.  I only had to sit around for 15 minutes after the shots.

 

My wife got one shot of Moderna and was tired for a couple days.  I don't recall what else.  She's due for the second dose in a week, so we'll see.

[rodknock]

Now What for Thailand?????

More Excuses!!!!

[Phillip9]

8 hours ago, shdmn said:

50% is better than nothing.  I think it's still almost 100% effect at preventing severe illness and death.

 

No one really knows because China doesn't publish their full clinical trial data.  All we have to go on is incomplete information from some of the countries already using it.

[pseudorabies]

11 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

 

The Sinovac appears to be adequate and safe. I have spoken with many people who have had it and one thing I notice is that they report much milder side effects if any at all.  It's effectiveness is questionable imo. It is an attenuated vaccine and thus is akin to the globally accepted flu vaccine.  

 

Both Pfizer and Moderna are the best, but are associated with some particularly vigorous initial side effects.

But that is what the Chinese CDC head said - that their vaccines “don’t have very high rates of protection”  (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccine-china/china-considering-mixing-covid-19-vaccines-to-boost-protection-rate-idUSKBN2BY0H1). Initially it was reported that he had said that they "weren't very effective" but he has since walked back those comments. Brazil has seen 50.7% protection for the endpoints they used which is barely adequate if no other vaccine is available.  I haven't seen any data on safety so I can't comment on that.  And this is all before considering counterfeit vaccines which have already been found in China.

 

While anecdotal, I know of many people in the US who have gotten the mRNA vaccines, none of whom had little more than a sore arm and malaise.  It's been noted that for whatever reason China has been pushing a misinformation campaign against the western vaccines (https://www.politico.com/newsletters/global-pulse/2021/01/28/what-chinas-vax-trolling-adds-up-to-491548) which might come from a sense of inferiority and desire to save face (but not lives).  I'd be suspicious of general, non-attributable negative claims about the western vaccines, especially those originating from non-english speaking media and forums.

[cdemundo]

15 hours ago, shdmn said:

50% is better than nothing.  I think it's still almost 100% effect at preventing severe illness and death.

50% means it reduces your risk of symptomatic infection by half.

Efficacy number is from the ratio of symptomatic infections in the placebo group compared to the vaccinated group.

It does not mean you have a 50/50 chance of getting sick.

Edited April 12, 2021 by cdemundo
clarification

[orchis]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Please supply a credible source for that assertion. My information says that the Chinese vaccine testing results have not been transparent so why should we trust them?

don't trust it, don't take it.

[WingFat]

Here's another news article on this. Not only is the top guy at the China Centers for Disease Control saying their vaccine is not very effective, they're also trying to downplay the Pfizer vaccine. But then he goes on to say they're thinking of combining different vaccines. Go figure. Here in the US, the Moderna vaccine is being most widely used as well as the Pfizer and J&J vaccines to a lesser extent. Results so far are good. Just had my 1st Moderna jab 2 days ago. It's getting a lot easier to get the vaccine shots here. I had a very mild case of the virus over 2 mos ago and recovered quickly (less than 1 week) which gave me the antibodies, now I'll have the 2-shot Moderna vaccine regimen. I am hoping for antibodies on steroids. The reaction to my 1st Moderna shot was fairly strong: bruising, soreness and some swelling at the injection site, minor headache, increased heartrate, some shortness of breath and generally feeling tired. But most of these side effects went away after about 24 hours.

 

And, there are stories popping up here that Biden is looking into a US Vaccine Passport and his admin is consulting with various vendors to make it happen.

 

China coronavirus vaccine: Top official admits low effectiveness (cnbc.com)

Edited April 12, 2021 by WingFat

[mommysboy]

16 hours ago, gearbox said:

This is not what our doctors think:

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/doctors-stop-offering-astrazeneca-jabs-over-legal-risk-20210410-p57i5f.html

 

If it was 1 in a million I think they would have taken the chance.

 

So do we disregard the very real world data from the UK where the AZ vaccine has been used over 20 million times?

 

In terms of effectiveness it's the equal of the Pfizer jab.  Yes, there is a safety issue in younger people- it's probably about dosing imo.

 

It can be given with confidence to older people, and is very effective. Stop knocking it!  Crazy talk.

[placeholder]

17 hours ago, gearbox said:

This is not what our doctors think:

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/doctors-stop-offering-astrazeneca-jabs-over-legal-risk-20210410-p57i5f.html

 

If it was 1 in a million I think they would have taken the chance.

Their reluctance has to do with Australian law, not the science. And why should they expose themselves to such liability?

[cdemundo]

On 4/11/2021 at 6:54 AM, ukrules said:

 

On 4/11/2021 at 6:32 AM, gearbox said:

Huh, do you have the AZ vaccine in mind? AZ is an adenovirus vaccine, Sinovac is an inactivated virus vaccine.  And yes, AZ sucks. Sinovac is not that effective too, but is old and proven to be safe technology. 

No, I'm thinking of the Ad5 using CanSinoBIO vaccine, I guess that's another of their failed vaccines which also has the same 50% efficacy

 

AZ uses a Chimp adenovirus

 

What does J&J use?  It is some kind of adenovirus as well isn't it?