Sinovac vaccine of questionable efficacy

[Scott]

A YouTube video has been removed.   Social media has to have a credible source.  

 

 

[shdmn]

10 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

So do we disregard the very real world data from the UK where the AZ vaccine has been used over 20 million times?

 

In terms of effectiveness it's the equal of the Pfizer jab.  Yes, there is a safety issue in younger people- it's probably about dosing imo.

 

It can be given with confidence to older people, and is very effective. Stop knocking it!  Crazy talk.

India has vaccinated about 100 million people with the AstraZeneca vaccine without any problems.

 

Trying to reason with an antivaxxer is like trying to reason with a religious nut.  Hopeless.

Edited April 12, 2021 by shdmn

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

What does J&J use?  It is some kind of adenovirus as well isn't it?

 

Yes, it is but to me it's not clear which adenovirus they're using, the information will be out there somewhere, I just haven't found it yet and I'm not really looking at this stage.

 

[gearbox]

8 hours ago, cdemundo said:

What does J&J use?  It is some kind of adenovirus as well isn't it?

J&J is a human adenovirus vaccine. It is a relatively late entrant and I haven't heard much about it.

 

Australia ruled out purchases of J&J, apparently too similar to AZ.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/no-johnson-and-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-for-australia-as-sector-calls-for-compensation-scheme-20210412-p57ih9.html

 

I would say it is still big haze out there in regards to vaccines effectiveness, maybe after another couple of months there would be more conclusive data derived from the mass vaccinations globally.

Edited April 13, 2021 by gearbox

[mommysboy]

49 minutes ago, gearbox said:

J&J is a human adenovirus vaccine. It is a relatively late entrant and I haven't heard much about it.

 

Australia ruled out purchases of J&J, apparently too similar to AZ.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/no-johnson-and-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-for-australia-as-sector-calls-for-compensation-scheme-20210412-p57ih9.html

 

I would say it is still big haze out there in regards to vaccines effectiveness, maybe after another couple of months there would be more conclusive data derived from the mass vaccinations globally.

 

It's not a big haze at all in terms of effectiveness- Pfizer, Moderna, and AZ vaccine are extremely effective in the real world setting.

[gearbox]

5 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

It's not a big haze at all in terms of effectiveness- Pfizer, Moderna, and AZ vaccine are extremely effective in the real world setting.

 I admire the fulfillment of your patriotic duty,  but pretty much nobody puts AZ in the Pfizer and Moderna league.  Sinovac isn't in that league either,  if that makes you happier.

[VocalNeal]

Why not get both?

[stretch5163]

On 4/11/2021 at 6:02 PM, gearbox said:

Huh, do you have the AZ vaccine in mind? AZ is an adenovirus vaccine, Sinovac is an inactivated virus vaccine.  And yes, AZ sucks. Sinovac is not that effective too, but is old and proven to be safe technology. 

Thats a big statement saying AZ sucks ? Is that based on personal experience fact or just your hearsay ?

 

If your saying AZ sucks because of the problems with the rare bloodclotting thenas most people are saying the good outweighs the bad and as it still being used and reccomended there must be a little traction in that fact.

 

Persoonally any vaccine is better than none but again thats my opinion. 

[mommysboy]

21 minutes ago, gearbox said:

 I admire the fulfillment of your patriotic duty,  but pretty much nobody puts AZ in the Pfizer and Moderna league.  Sinovac isn't in that league either,  if that makes you happier.

 

You don't appear to be widely informed on the subject.

[mommysboy]

This is the main concern with AZ vaccine, not it's effectiveness which is spectacular in older folk:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9464327/Australian-woman-40s-diagnosed-blood-clots-believed-linked-AstraZeneca-vaccine.html

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

 I admire the fulfillment of your patriotic duty,  but pretty much nobody puts AZ in the Pfizer and Moderna league.  Sinovac isn't in that league either,  if that makes you happier.

 

Just one of many real world observations: 

 

As  I said pretty much the same in effectiveness: both display spectacular ability to prevent serious outcomes, and are effective at reducing transmission.

 

Note UK switched to a delayed dosing strategy which considerably enhanced performance.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-data-show-vaccines-reduce-severe-covid-19-in-older-adults

 

But see above posting for a rare, but significant problem related to AZ vaccine ( even though it seems to reduce the chances generally of blood clotting).

 

 

[Phillip9]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

This is the main concern with AZ vaccine, not it's effectiveness which is spectacular in older folk:

 

The main concern I have with AZ is that it is worthless against the south african variant.  This is why most of southern africa has stopped using it entirely and the UK and Thailand have severe travel restrictions on people coming from africa.  Anyone who get the AZ vaccine will certainly have to get another vaccine in the near future when the SA variant becomes more prevalent.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/03/17/astrazeneca-vaccine-fails-to-protect-against-the-south-african-variant/?sh=15b1a6666526

[Kristine_M]

n immunology efficacy and effectiveness are technical terms. Basically they both refer to how well the vaccine works against suppressing any symptoms from arising after a vaccine. But against the development of severe symptoms and in preventing death, the Sinovac virus has been found to work very well. hope this pandemic will end soon

[gearbox]

On 4/13/2021 at 11:13 AM, stretch5163 said:

Thats a big statement saying AZ sucks ? Is that based on personal experience fact or just your hearsay ?

 

If your saying AZ sucks because of the problems with the rare bloodclotting thenas most people are saying the good outweighs the bad and as it still being used and reccomended there must be a little traction in that fact.

 

Persoonally any vaccine is better than none but again thats my opinion. 

It was based on the publicity the vaccine got in the press.

 

However all these forum exchanges intrigued me and I had a chat with my kid, who is a doctor immunologist. After that conversation I am confident in the AZ vaccine and will take it if nothing else is available. More importantly they administered the vaccine to immunocompromised people without issues. I have a mild auto immune disease and this is good news. The chance of getting a serious blood clot is 1:200000, I've taken far bigger risks.

 

Sadly the vaccines have become political, not medical issue, and there are many politically "nuanced" press articles, smearing mostly the Chinese and the Russian vaccines, and AZ too.

 

Here is an article where two Aussie experts weigh on the Sinovac vaccine:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-13/are-china-s-covid-shots-less-effective-experts-size-up-sinovac

 

I'm sharing your opinion, any current mainstream vaccine is way better than no vaccine.

 

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[cdemundo]

On 4/12/2021 at 8:07 PM, gearbox said:

 I admire the fulfillment of your patriotic duty,  but pretty much nobody puts AZ in the Pfizer and Moderna league.  Sinovac isn't in that league either,  if that makes you happier.

The efficacy numbers obscure what is really important, AZ, Pfizer, Moderna in trials were 100% protective against hospitalization and death.  That is easy to interpret whereas efficacy and efficiency are a bit complex and are not what they appear to be at first glance.

[gearbox]

58 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

The efficacy numbers obscure what is really important, AZ, Pfizer, Moderna in trials were 100% protective against hospitalization and death.  That is easy to interpret whereas efficacy and efficiency are a bit complex and are not what they appear to be at first glance.

As I said earlier above, nothing is final yet, and more data and observations will be coming.

 

Here is something which came today:

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-jab-may-be-needed-plus-annual-booster-20210416-p57jom.html

 

It may look surprising and unexpected, but I think most of the vaccine producers would follow sooner or later with similar announcements.

[Jeffr2]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html

 

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months

[Phillip9]

35 minutes ago, gearbox said:

It may look surprising and unexpected, but I think most of the vaccine producers would follow sooner or later with similar announcements.

 

Not unexpected at all.  Most vaccines for any disease require a booster at some point.   Every scientist has been saying it will likely be required for the covid vaccines.  The US has already made plans to secure enough booster shots for the entire population this fall.

[sscc]

Chilean have done over 10 million doses,  86 % of those are Sinovac. 

Chile officials published a set of data about Sinovac this week.  

 

 

[jayboy]

On 4/11/2021 at 9:58 PM, gearbox said:

I've chatted with people in a few countries in regards to their vaccinations, and all refuse to vaccinate with AZ.

Oh well, that settles it then.Never mind that the overwhelming weight of scientific evidence takes a different view. It's true that a tiny risk of blood clotting (much less than being struck by lightning) means that under 35s might want to consider a different vaccine.But overall despite the hysteria in Europe, the AZ vaccine has been shown to be highly effective.

[cdemundo]

I had not seen this before although it has been published for weeks.  Sometimes the number alone doesn't tell the whole story.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html#novavax

 

“Sinovac Biotech, a private Chinese company, developed an inactivated vaccine called CoronaVac in early 2020.

In early 2021, trials in Brazil and Turkey showed that it could protect against COVID-19, but they delivered strikingly different results - in part because they designed the trials differently.  In Brazil, the efficacy against Covid-19 with or without symptoms was 50 percent.  In Turkey, the efficacy against Covid-19 with at least one symptom was 91.25 percent.”

 

"At least one symptom" versus "with or without symptoms" seems like a big difference.  I wonder why the Brazil study used such restrictive criteria.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

I had not seen this before although it has been published for weeks.  Sometimes the number alone doesn't tell the whole story.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html#novavax

 

“Sinovac Biotech, a private Chinese company, developed an inactivated vaccine called CoronaVac in early 2020.

In early 2021, trials in Brazil and Turkey showed that it could protect against COVID-19, but they delivered strikingly different results - in part because they designed the trials differently.  In Brazil, the efficacy against Covid-19 with or without symptoms was 50 percent.  In Turkey, the efficacy against Covid-19 with at least one symptom was 91.25 percent.”

 

"At least one symptom" versus "with or without symptoms" seems like a big difference.  I wonder why the Brazil study used such restrictive criteria.

I wouldn't worry too much about the studies, real world data is now being published, far more accurate for all vaccines not just Sinovac. However with this new data Sinovac is still performing poorly compared to all other brands.

[rabas]

41 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

I had not seen this before although it has been published for weeks.  Sometimes the number alone doesn't tell the whole story.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html#novavax

 

“Sinovac Biotech, a private Chinese company, developed an inactivated vaccine called CoronaVac in early 2020.

In early 2021, trials in Brazil and Turkey showed that it could protect against COVID-19, but they delivered strikingly different results - in part because they designed the trials differently.  In Brazil, the efficacy against Covid-19 with or without symptoms was 50 percent.  In Turkey, the efficacy against Covid-19 with at least one symptom was 91.25 percent.”

 

"At least one symptom" versus "with or without symptoms" seems like a big difference.  I wonder why the Brazil study used such restrictive criteria.

"At least one symptom" versus "with or without symptoms" seems like a big difference.  I wonder why the Brazil study used such restrictive criteria.

 

Possibly because "with or without symptoms" is a better measure for controlling spread. The Brazil trial was for medical personnel, so concern about contagion seems reasonable.

 

Because of the marketing and image pressure on all manufactures,  I would be more concerned about trial transparency. Not something China excels at.

 

[Kiujunn]

4 hours ago, rabas said:

"At least one symptom" versus "with or without symptoms" seems like a big difference.  I wonder why the Brazil study used such restrictive criteria.

 

Possibly because "with or without symptoms" is a better measure for controlling spread. The Brazil trial was for medical personnel, so concern about contagion seems reasonable.

 

Because of the marketing and image pressure on all manufactures,  I would be more concerned about trial transparency. Not something China excels at.

 

Instituto Butantán is a trustworthy source and has said that the main point is: Sinovac projects very well against severe disease (actually, they have a percentage number that i forgot,  it was over 80%, maybe 100% as reported in other sources)

[Kiujunn]

On 4/11/2021 at 10:15 PM, gearbox said:

This is not what our doctors think:

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/doctors-stop-offering-astrazeneca-jabs-over-legal-risk-20210410-p57i5f.html

 

If it was 1 in a million I think they would have taken the chance.

From the FT 2 days ago:

[onebir]

16 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

From the FT 2 days ago:

Based on this, wouldn't the AZ vaccine offer a net benefit even to 20-29 year olds provided the Covid infection rate is > ~30/100k? (ie 50% higher than the blue bars assume)

[Kiujunn]

9 minutes ago, onebir said:

Based on this, wouldn't the AZ vaccine offer a net benefit even to 20-29 year olds provided the Covid infection rate is > ~30/100k? (ie 50% higher than the blue bars assume)

So you see how rare the side effects really are

[onebir]

1 hour ago, Kiujunn said:

So you see how rare the side effects really are

Sure, I never thought they were common! (Based on the data currently available...)

[bkk6060]

This was reported this morning:

 

Seven people suffered from partial paralysis after receiving the Sinovac vaccine, a doctor from Chulalongkorn University said.

Thiravat Hemachudha, director of the Health Science Centre of Emerging Diseases at Chulalongkorn University's faculty of medicine, posted on Facebook on Tuesday that six of them were in Rayong and one at the Queen Savang Vadhana Memorial Hospital in Chon Buri's Sri Racha district.

Their conditions improved after doctors administered medication to dissolve blood clots, Dr Thiravat posted