Property prices: I can't get my head around this

[inThailand]

Yes you do. When you buy a condo you own a percent of the common area property which includes the chanote titled land. Your percent of ownership is calculated by taking your condo's sqm and dividing it by the sum of all condos. It is stated in the Bylaws and in your condo title deed. 

[4MyEgo]

On 4/26/2021 at 11:20 PM, 2009 said:

Both in same location.

 

What is that all about?

 

I believe that there are a couple of things you could have to look at which might be of importance here in Thailand, albeit I have never purchased here.

 

1. Age of development, naturally the newer the development is, the more expensive one would assume it will be.

 

2. Facilities within the development, e.g. swimming pool, gym, sauna, tennis court, the more facilities, the more the levies for the upkeep, this would also include landscaping, if any.

 

3. Views if any and level (condo vs townhouse).

 

4. Security/Concierge ?

 

5. Levies and, as mentioned above, noting if there are any special levies coming up for upkeep of the building, lift replacement, external painting, roof replacement (townhouses) for example, and if there is not enough in the developments fund then that is going to be divided by the amount of owners within the development as a one off special levy

 

6. History of development, if any, very important !!!

 

7. Reported sales within the development does help to make things better when putting a figure on the property you are looking at, also depending on when it last traded.

 

8. The smaller the development would "normally" mean the more expensive (townhouses), i.e. unless it is newer and has all the facilities that one would want and it's location of course.

 

9. Location even though within the same area can affect prices, some property prices drop for just being across the main road, and that could be because on the more expensive side there is the shopping complex, the rail station and they maybe within an easy walking distance vs having to cross the main drag with your shopping etc

 

10. Capital appreciation, e.g. the lower the rental/return the higher the value, now think about this for a while, less vacancy factors as the development might be in constant demand from tenants due to its location/facilities/condition

 

As others have said, one can ask whatever one wants, it's like fishing, you might just jag a big one.

 

Personally, I come from a real estate background, and when I look at what you can rent for vs what you pay to purchase, I would first rent in the development that I want to live in, and if I like it after a while, I might purchase something in there when it comes to the market, but personally couldn't see myself investing in Thailand as I haven't really seen sharp market increases here, yes rent is money down the drain, but you can also invest your money in other things that can pay for you rent while your money is also growing at the same time, and if need be, you could exit Thailand at a moments notice is needed without leaving any fixed assets to have to worry about unloading which can take time, especially in an over developed market.

 

Just my take on things to give you something to think about.

 

Good luck either way you choose to go.

[elgenon]

On 4/26/2021 at 6:25 AM, brewsterbudgen said:

Foreigners can buy condos, but only Thais can buy land/houses.

I thought the Supreme General said now foreigners can own houses/land, or soon can? Not true?

[rwill]

The construction costs of a high rise may be more expensive than a single or two story building also.

[Grusa]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:51 PM, 2009 said:

 

I said same location. What difference does a few sois make?

 

I didn't think someone would literally think the townhouse was on the same plot of land as the condo, lol, jeez.

Mine is, but is not part of the juristic..... 18 houses and 57 townhouses sharing the condo facilities. Now causing huge problems! 

[ifmu]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:42 PM, Swimfan said:

May have something to do with the age of the property. 

are you saying that the life expectancy of concrete is 20 years ?

[Tropposurfer]

It's a strange market. Many of the previous posters have hit nails on the head e.g. greed, low-income folks needing accom. so easy to market and sell/suck people in to renting forever or buying shoe boxes. When you have upper middle and hi-so class collusion rampant in Thai culture to preserve their wealth and stay 'exclusive' in their lifestyles and you have an environment rife for production and near empty buildings apartment being thrown up at a crazy rate and slick mass marketing to folks who are entranced and fed the addictive cycle of aspiring to the upper class through some magical transformation as it exists in Thailand -especially Bangkok and boom! ... it is what you see.

Personally I haven't yet bought real-estate in Bangkok, or any other major city in Thailand - only Phuket and that's a 1500 m/2  block with a 4 bed custom built Euro spec home.  If I were to buy a apartment I'd probably buy an older larger footprint and remodel. But this can also be a worry as often these buildings, and their built in services are neglected after a few years. I've visited a couple of places in Chinatown area renovated and they were superb. But, these homes/apartments were in buildings owned through the Thai family and the relationship with the falang spouse was relationally long term secure.

I can't see how anyone can live in the dog-boxes being sold in the price range your mentioning. Horrible and in my opinion not good for mental health at all.

[Nanaplaza666]

3 hours ago, Antonymous said:

 

To be fair for comparison, you must accept that those things cost a whopping additional amount. How much extra in common fees would you pay typically on that 135 m2 condo? No common fees on a typical 135m2 townhouse.

No common fees for the house but with the cheap builds using the cheapest materials i bet you will spend more on the house in the years then you do with common fees for a condo .

[nickmondo]

Dont even try to find any logical answer mate.

There isnt one.

Dont even think about buying a property here.

The rules can change in an instant, and it might be very costly.

just rent

its so cheap to rent.

[Thingamabob]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:37 PM, 2009 said:

 

Obviously, but aren't you missing the point?

 

 

The point is simple. Houses are priced for Thais, condos for expats.

[newnative]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:40 PM, 2009 said:

 

I know but house prices are consistently priced far less per sqm than condos in the same area.

 

I am baffled.

 

 

    You are right that it can be topsy turvy and some condos are more expensive than townhouses and, in some cases, also single family homes.  I'm sitting in a large 1 bedroom condo with a killer seaview in a good project with an excellent location in Pattaya.  For the same price I could be sitting in a single family pool villa on the Darkside.  I think condo and house prices depend on a number of things.  Primarily location, view, foreign ownership for condos, and condo/house age, qualities, and amenities.  Of those, location is the most important.

    One example.  A 50sqm 2br/1 bath condo right next to the Phetchaburi MTR station in Bangkok will likely be more than 5MB.  But, let's say it's 5MB.  I can assure you that a 4br townhouse in that exact same location would not be 'far less' than the condo.  No, far more.

     Staying with your example, if that 50sqm 2br/1 bath condo is priced at 5MB it better have something a little special if it's in Pattaya.  Starting with a seaview or a good location.  Hipflat has a 2 br/2bath 56sqm condo at Grand Avenue for 3.295MB.  Nearby, Hipflat has a 2br/1 bath 53sqm at The Base for 6.3MB.  Both condo projects are new or recent builds, offer most of the same amenities, and are in the same good location.  The primary difference in price?  The Base condo has a seaview.  Grand Avenue is low-rise with no seaview units.

     Now, if you went to Grand Avenue's location, would you be able to find a recent build 4 bedroom townhouse for 'far less' than 3.25MB?  I doubt it.  Ditto for The Base and trying to buy a 4 bedroom recent build seaview townhouse there for 'far less' than 6.3MB.   To be fair, comparisons really need to be apples to apples as much as possible.  But, discarding location and sometimes some other factors, you can buy a house for less than a condo.

     

[AlfHuy]

On 4/26/2021 at 9:28 PM, JeffersLos said:

 

Foreigners can buy land/houses.

 

 

They just won't be the owners. 

I met a beautiul lady 2 weeks ago.

 

We are talking about, buying a 20Million house.

I love her white teeth.

 

I go for it.

[AlfHuy]

On 4/26/2021 at 11:47 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

80 m2 for 4.3 million. Close enough. 

 

 

They wouldn't get 20k rent a month.

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

what about amenities? does the house have a swimming pool, a workout room, a staff and a guard? 

 

Yes, it is paid for in maintenance fees too, but it is a different type of living.. if the roof leaks at the house, who pays to fix it?

 

In a certain way it is like comparing oranges and lemons.. just not the same style..

I have a swimming pool in the next Soi, 40bht a go.

My roof leaked once in the past 7 years (storm moved some tiles), I paid 3,000bht for it to be fixed.

[Stevemercer]

5 hours ago, inThailand said:

Yes you do. When you buy a condo you own a percent of the common area property which includes the chanote titled land. Your percent of ownership is calculated by taking your condo's sqm and dividing it by the sum of all condos. It is stated in the Bylaws and in your condo title deed. 

 

I know this is off the point, but I sometimes read threads fro condo owners where somebody is building on the common area and possibly infringing on common rights.

 

I assume someone can offer to buy up people's % ownership of the common area until they have accumulated enough to build something.

[sead]

On 4/26/2021 at 3:25 PM, brewsterbudgen said:

Foreigners can buy condos, but only Thais can buy land/houses.

Can buy condo's and houses but not land. 

[newnative]

3 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

 

I know this is off the point, but I sometimes read threads fro condo owners where somebody is building on the common area and possibly infringing on common rights.

 

I assume someone can offer to buy up people's % ownership of the common area until they have accumulated enough to build something.

     I don't see how this could possibly happen legally if the common area is, indeed, owned by the condominium and legally registered at the Land Office.  The question would be if the area being built on is truly common area owned by the condo project.  In one condo project I lived in, the developer had retained ownership of the land area where the pool was so that land was not actually 'common area'.  

[chilly07]

Apart from additional amenities it's location, location, location, willing seller and willing buyer. Asking and sold price are never related. Circumstances of seller and buyer dictate parameters of negotiation. With or without agent affects final agreed price.

[J Town]

There is one particular condo on Jomtien Beach Road whose owners keep the prices unrealistically high. Cracker box layout, TINY units with a balcony that will fit only two people (IF they're not too big!). I really don't get it.

[jomtienisgood]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:49 PM, couchpotato said:

If your post said a few sois away, then you might get a better answer, and not waste posters time.

Is your time so valuable????? 

[jomtienisgood]

41 minutes ago, sead said:

Can buy condo's and houses but not land. 

Absolutely correct and has been stated many times before. No use.

[jomtienisgood]

3 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

The point is simple. Houses are priced for Thais, condos for expats.

Where does that ' logic ' come from?????

[jomtienisgood]

2 hours ago, AlfHuy said:

I met a beautiul lady 2 weeks ago.

 

We are talking about, buying a 20Million house.

I love her white teeth.

 

I go for it.

Way to go. 555555

[kingofthemountain]

20 minutes ago, J Town said:

There is one particular condo on Jomtien Beach Road whose owners keep the prices unrealistically high. Cracker box layout, TINY units with a balcony that will fit only two people (IF they're not too big!). I really don't get it.

Most of the properties on the market in Pattaya have a price unrealistically high

 

The reason is before the covid crisis, whatever the property and the price, there was ALWAYS soon or later (Could be few days or few years, it depends of how unrealistic it was) a foreigner coming and saying ''oh, cool, it's less expensive than a similar condo in a similar location in the US, Australia, France, England (You can put here the name of your country) let's go and buy it! ''

 

Plus you have the ones (Mostly from Thailand, China and India) having a lot of cash and for obvious reasons they can not explain to the authorities of their country of origin from where this cash is coming, and it's too much to be kept under the bed, so they decide to ''clean'' it buying a condo with it, so the price of the condo isn't really a concern.

 

Now of course with the covid crisis the things are a little bit different

but it could take years for the market to be corrected at a realistic level, most of the owners are wealthy enough to wait as long as it necessary and they expect the return of the ''good old days'' soon or later

 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[bkk6060]

At the end of 2019, Ms Risinee Sarikaputra, the Director of Research at Knight Frank Thailand revealed that close to 100,000 unsold units were on the market in Bangkok at that point. 

The Pattaya condo market is seeing significant oversupply according to Colliers Research, with more than 25,000 units remaining unsold as of the end of 2019, almost double the number from the same time the year prior.

 

You can add many more to this as these numbers were before Covid.

A real estate market generally will not be healthy showing some appreciation until unsold inventory is in fact sold creating demand.

 

Your money is dead in real estate here a non transparent market.  Keep dreaming maybe get lucky find a dump and fix it up and make a few thousand baht.  I know several people trying to sell they hate owning and getting 1/2 offers hoping  to just break even.  

Edited April 30, 2021 by bkk6060

[soi3eddie]

3 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

The point is simple. Houses are priced for Thais, condos for expats.

 

Not always. Probably depends on the area. My condo building near Soi Aree has 99 units. I am just one of 3 foreign owners (and 6 foreign residents). Single houses in this area run about 15-30 Milliion Baht. Condos in my building were priced from 2.99 to 8 Million Baht.

 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I have a swimming pool in the next Soi, 40bht a go.

My roof leaked once in the past 7 years (storm moved some tiles), I paid 3,000bht for it to be fixed.

others mileage may vary...

 

ps - I have a swimming pool out my back door - and it costs me far more than 40 baht a day... but for me, it is definitely worth it..

[DefaultName]

Seems simple enough; more people want condo's than houses, so the prices are higher.  I bought last year in Pattaya, all the houses had barred windows.  I don't want to live like that, much as I could use the extra space.  In my condo I feel safe, in a house I wouldn't.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, J Town said:

There is one particular condo on Jomtien Beach Road whose owners keep the prices unrealistically high. Cracker box layout, TINY units with a balcony that will fit only two people (IF they're not too big!). I really don't get it.

     Hmm.   Maybe if the condo project was very small with just a handful of owners you might be able to get the owners to agree on pricing.   But, I think this would be totally unrealistic and unworkable with a normal condo project with hundreds of owners--all with different opinions on their condos and all with different reasons--and urgencies-- for selling.  I can imagine a meeting going something like this:

 

John:  'I'd like to see if we can all come to an agreement to only sell our TINY units with cracker box layout and balconies that only fit two small people for the same price.  Any objections?'

 

Wilma: 'Yes! I just spent a small fortune to totally re-do my kitchen.  I certainly should be able to price my condo higher.'

 

Roger: 'What?!  Wilma, your condo is on the second floor with a view of the dumpster!  I'm on the 10th floor with an ocean view!  My condo should be priced much higher than yours!'

 

Judy: 'Hang on.  10th floor?  Big deal.  Yes, you can see a bit of the ocean between the two buildings next to us but I'm above those buildings on the 15th floor and my seaview is much better than yours.  My condo should be priced higher.'

 

Sam:  'Maybe so, Judy, but your condo IS on the hot side of the building.  My condo is higher than yours AND it's on the cool side so it should command a much higher price.'

 

Bob: 'Yes, but your condo is in company name, Sam, and we all know that the foreign quota is full.  Even though my condo is on a lower floor and the view's not as good it IS in foreign quota so it's more desirable than yours and should be priced much higher.'

 

Susan: 'Ha!  Your condo may be in foreign quota but it's an absolute pigsty!  How dare you think its worth more than mine!  I keep my condo neat as a pin!  It's definitely the best!'

 

At that point the meeting erupted into fistfights and general chaos with the 100 owners in attendance but John eventually restored order.

 

John:  'Well, I thought it would be easy to come to an agreement but apparently not.  I guess we'll let the buyers decide what they're willing to pay--and for what unit.  Maybe one might like Wilma's new kitchen and someone else might value a great seaview.  Good luck and this meeting's adjourned.'

 

  

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I have a swimming pool out my back door - and it costs me far more than 40 baht a day... but for me, it is definitely worth it..

Is it as nice as my 40bht pool?