Bad news from Seychelles, world most vaccinated country

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, friendofthai said:

I see that many countries stop using AstraZeneca as they say "because of blot clots". But I think what countries do is much more important than what they say/write/publish(even in credible news sources). And I see what Thailand DO. It uses AstraZeneca with people older than 60 years old. But old people are most vulnerable to any disease. If "blot clots" were the real reason of not using AZ widely, the old people would also not get it either. Recently the director of Gamaleya Research Institute (that created Sputnik V) have said that AZ is much more safer than mRNA based vaccines like Moderna. So I think that "blot clots" is just a convenient excuse, nothing more.
What is the real reason of not using AZ if it is safe enough? Logically, there can be only one reason of not using it - effectiveness in preventing deaths and infections! But Thailand still uses it with 60+ people. This is the group of people that has extremely high death rate. This demonstrates that AZ is good enough in preventing deaths, but not infections.

Your trusting statements from Russia? Stunning.

[friendofthai]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Your trusting statements from Russia? Stunning.

From the Russian point of view AZ Pfizer and Moderna are just 3 western vaccines. There are no political reasons for a Russian vaccine producer to lie that British vaccine is better than US one. Of course when he compares his own vaccines with the western ones the situation is not the same - every vaccine producer will say his vaccines are the best in the world for sure.

[Susco]

Nice western media propaganda article to discredit the Chinese vaccine.

 

In the US, where they only use the superior western vaccines, and where also a very large portion of the population has been vaccinated, new cases also increased mid April\

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Susco

[Jeffr2]

12 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

From the Russian point of view AZ Pfizer and Moderna are just 3 western vaccines. There are no political reasons for a Russian vaccine producer to lie that British vaccine is better than US one. Of course when he compares his own vaccines with the western ones the situation is not the same - every vaccine producer will say his vaccines are the best in the world for sure.

No political reasons?  Really?  Russia is pursuing diplomacy via their vaccine. Which was developed way to fast, bypassing safety standards. And they are refusing to release trial data. Thus, they aren't approved in many developed countries.

 

Research Russian vaccine diplomacy.

[xtrnuno41]

In my country 12 elderly of 29 , in an elderly home, people got infected with COvid.

They were vaccinated with Pfizer.

Vaccine only helps reducing symptoms. One elderly had pneumonia, but also healing instead of dying.

SO after you have been vaccinated , you still can get covid.

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, Susco said:

Nice western media propaganda article to discredit the Chinese vaccine.

 

In the US, where they only use the superior western vaccines, and where also a very large portion of the population has been vaccinated, new cases also increased mid April

 

Propaganda? Hardly. Same thing is happening in Chile.

 

You should provide a link to the source. No idea what that graph represents.

[Susco]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Propaganda? Hardly. Same thing is happening in Chile.

 

You should provide a link to the source. No idea what that graph represents.

 

Only an apologist looking for an argument would not see that the graph is from the most official, and most visited, source used on this and other forums frequently.

 

I have now edited my post to please you.

 

And yes it is propaganda, because it is not only happening only in Chile also, it is happening all over the world.

 

I'm sure that if RT had published an article about increasing new cases in the US, between end of March and mid April, you would be on your high horse, and denying it.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Susco

[from the home of CC]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:31 AM, Brierley said:

"Of those cases, 84% are Seychellois and the rest are foreigners, Daniel Lucey, Clinical Professor of Medicine at Dartmouth Geisel School of Medicine, said in a blog post. Just under two thirds of those are either unvaccinated or have only had one dose, and the rest have had two doses, he said".

 

This is the real problem and it's a problem that's in store for us here once the local population begins to be inoculated:

 

"Officials at the press conference gave little detail on what could be behind the infection surge other than to say people were taking fewer precautions against the virus than before and the surge may be due to celebrations after Easter".

that's ironic - celebrating a rise from the dead by putting more in the ground...

[friendofthai]

 

13 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

No political reasons?  Really?  Russia is pursuing diplomacy via their vaccine. Which was developed way to fast, bypassing safety standards. And they are refusing to release trial data. Thus, they aren't approved in many developed countries.

 

Research Russian vaccine diplomacy.

I really have no idea how all of these propaganda statements are related to that AZ from UK is safer than Moderna from US. Russia bypasses safety standards by saying that? Nonsense.

Edited May 7, 2021 by friendofthai

[friendofthai]

46 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Russia is pursuing diplomacy via their vaccine. Which was developed way to fast, bypassing safety standards. And they are refusing to release trial data. Thus, they aren't approved in many developed countries.

I don't see any problems with sales of Sputnik V. All the vaccine packages produced are being sold very quickly. So there are no reasons for Sputnik V to bypass any rules or standards in UK, US or any other country. If one country don't want to buy it - it will be sold very quickly to another country that has already approved Sputnik V according to all the existing rules and standards of this country.

Edited May 7, 2021 by friendofthai

[Jeffr2]

37 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

Only an apologist looking for an argument would not see that the graph is from the most official, and most visited, source used on this and other forums frequently.

 

I have now edited my post to please you.

 

And yes it is propaganda, because it is not only happening only in Chile also, it is happening all over the world.

 

I'm sure that if RT had published an article about increasing new cases in the US, between end of March and mid April, you would be on your high horse, and denying it.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

World of meters is hardly the most reputable site. Do some research on it. It's just a site that collects data from elsewhere. Run by a single guy.

 

Your initial JPG post didn't give details.  Come on. Calling me an apologist?  Bizarre.  Referencing RT is also Bizarre.

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

I don't see any problems with sales of Sputnik V. All the vaccine packages produced are being sold very quickly. So there are no reasons for Sputnik V to bypass any rules or standards in UK, US or any other country. If one country don't want to buy it - it will be sold very quickly to another country that has already approved Sputnik V according to all the existing rules and standards of this country.

Do some research.

[friendofthai]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Do some research.

Maybe you want that when any country sell anything to another country they should ask USA for a permission. Or they should wait for a US-approved paper with a stamp : "Complies with US safety standards". This is your dream, right? This will never come true.

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Maybe you want that when any country sell anything to another country they should ask USA for a permission. Or they should wait for a US-approved paper with a stamp : "Complies with US safety standards". This is your dream, right? This will never come true.

No just want the full data released, ie final phase 3 results which then needs to be peer reviewed.

[friendofthai]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

No just want the full data released, ie final phase 3 results which then needs to be peer reviewed.

I am sure that this requirement of your country will be taken into account when sales to your country will be discussed. Of course there is no way to bypass any requirement of any country if we want to sale more.
But now the main problem of the business is how to produce more, not how to sale more. Too many customers have to wait long time for their order to be delivered.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, friendofthai said:

I am sure that this requirement of your country will be taken into account when sales to your country will be discussed. Of course there is no way to bypass any requirement of any country if we want to sale more.
But now the main problem of the business is how to produce more, not how to sale more. Too many customers have to wait long time for their order to be delivered.

Not just my my country, WHO is waiting for it to. Without it then its safety cannot be established, selling to the world without that data is reckless and dangerous

[unblocktheplanet]

A lot of folks, and a lot of govts, saw vaccines as the great white hope. It isn't so! Pharma is roaring profit, pretty much forever. Our health doesn't come cheap!

 

The mistakes we should have learned from other countries is not to get too free. Songkran, for instance. With B117, it may be too late for Thailand to lock down hard for 30-90 days & expect zero Covid.

 

We're all hoping vaccines will catch up with the mutations but it may be a year or more from now in a country with sketchy vaccine plans.

[friendofthai]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not just my my country, WHO is waiting for it to.

There are no plans to sell any Sputnik packages to WHO now. But of course if they want to buy, Russia will discuss it with them directly.

[Stocky]

On 5/6/2021 at 7:03 AM, friendofthai said:

Vaccinating with British AstraZeneca (produced in India) is the main reason for all of the problems

How exactly do you come to that conclusion?

India has vaccinated some 160 million adults to date, that's out of an adult population of approximately 950 million. So about 17%, a long way off the generally accepted herd immunity target of 70%. Further, only 19% of the 160 million have had both jabs.

Clearly the main reason is insufficient doses administered, not the vaccine.

[Elkski]

Class, class!   Take it outside boys.  

So much unknown to argue about at this timeline state.    Yes cases have risen in much if USA. But it was spring and activities started, rules were listened and people probably got careless.   Look at spring break in Florida.  Look at FAA passenger numbers.   Mask rules stopped in many states due to it being political.  Also the shot numbers are in the low 30% range at best, not 70+%>. I'm not even sure we can reach 70% without some sort of government or private sector influence.  Perhaps some airlines, restaurants, bars, cruise ships, countries will  begin to require vax cards.  Maybe stores have special hours for vaxed people.   Costco here has an over 60 only shopping hour, I see a good singles movie in the future.  We met at "over 60 hour"  haha.  I know  this first hand because they denied our entry on Tuesday. Had to wait outside 20 minutes. 

  It's not hard to imagine Russia has some very sophisticated science labs when it comes to DNA, vaccines, poisons.    The cool thing about mRNA technology is that they trigger your cells to make a cell with the spike protein, then your body figures out how to kill this off, thus educating and arming your body with tools needed to eradicate the real spike protein virus.   Some of the others grow lots of virus in chicken eggs and kill it .   I still say I had covid Jan 2-7 2020 , 5 days after transiting Shanghai. The airport seemed to be in total confusion. There was a big temperature check station and people were being separated as Chinese and the rest before papers were checked.  I talked to some Thai women who were sitting behind a roped area.  They said they were told to sit and stay there?   It felt like pandemonium but I didn't understand it at the time. They know Dec 26th.  They knew !! China knew!!

[gearbox]

3 hours ago, Susco said:

Nice western media propaganda article to discredit the Chinese vaccine.

 

In the US, where they only use the superior western vaccines, and where also a very large portion of the population has been vaccinated, new cases also increased mid April\

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

 

 

Here is one piece of crude propaganda:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/china/china-philippines-vaccines-climate-mic-intl-hnk/index.html

 

"As China awaits WHO approval for its vaccines, one country is sending theirs back"

 

If you read the headline, you would think that there was something really wrong with these vaccines...either they are terribly inefficient, or people have died after getting the jabs.

 

What really happened was the Chinese donated 1000 Sinopharm vaccines, and the Philippines quasi-dictator decided to jab himself without the vaccines being approved.  There was a public backlash and he returned the gifted vaccines to the Chinese.

And that was the vaccine story! Designed for people who read only headlines.

[placnx]

12 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's impossible to compare the various jabs as they were done at different times, in different locations, with different mutations.  In the end, ALL of them keep you out of the ICU and from dying.  But yes, we don't have good clarity into the Chinese or Russian jabs.  Sadly.

While the trials may have demonstrated high numbers for keeping people from dying, it's not so clear that in the real world with new variants that remains the case. On this thread, it's the Seychelles, but experience in Chile is showing this problem as well.

[placnx]

11 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Correct.  And it doesn't stop you from getting the virus and passing it on.  I'm guessing some who've been jabbed think they don't have to wear masks or social distance any more.  That's not the case.

To what extent transmission via vaccinated individuals occurs will get clearer. In Israel they are checking the Pfizer. I believe that the conclusion so far is 70%, but that only applies to the Pfizer vaccine.

[placnx]

5 hours ago, Susco said:

 

Only an apologist looking for an argument would not see that the graph is from the most official, and most visited, source used on this and other forums frequently.

 

I have now edited my post to please you.

 

And yes it is propaganda, because it is not only happening only in Chile also, it is happening all over the world.

 

I'm sure that if RT had published an article about increasing new cases in the US, between end of March and mid April, you would be on your high horse, and denying it.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

There's a lag involved between the vaccination program and getting the curve under control. You have to consider what was going on. Spring break. The tail end of the graph is declining nicely, though.

[tonray]

This is going to be similar to the annual flu vaccine to cover mutated variants. Every year, the health authorities determine statistically which influenza variant is most prevalent/virulent and target a new version of the vaccine towards that variant. Covid is falling into that same pattern...only the disease is far more deadly and spreads far more readily than the common flu variants. Get ready for an annual or biennial booster if you want to stay safe. Perhaps they could add it to the fish sauce here, that way you can be assured  that 90% of the population gets a dose.

[Jeffr2]

15 minutes ago, tonray said:

This is going to be similar to the annual flu vaccine to cover mutated variants. Every year, the health authorities determine statistically which influenza variant is most prevalent/virulent and target a new version of the vaccine towards that variant. Covid is falling into that same pattern...only the disease is far more deadly and spreads far more readily than the common flu variants. Get ready for an annual or biennial booster if you want to stay safe. Perhaps they could add it to the fish sauce here, that way you can be assured  that 90% of the population gets a dose.

Agreed.  The new "normal".  Many die every year from the flu.  Let's hope in the coming years, it doesn't increase much.  But probably will, sadly.

 

Just read that the AZ jab is really only good for one time.

 

https://theconversation.com/3-doses-then-1-each-year-why-pfizer-not-astrazeneca-is-the-best-bet-for-the-long-haul-159137

 

But as time goes on, using the AstraZeneca shot isn’t the best long-term strategy.

 

One reason for this is what immunologists call “vector immunity”. The AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines use a viral vector, which is an inactivated (cannot replicate) form of a common type of virus called an “adenovirus”. They use this adenovirus as a delivery vehicle to get DNA into our cells to give them the instructions to develop immunity against the coronavirus. However, you can’t be repeatedly immunised with this type of vaccine because you’ll likely develop immunity to the adenovirus vector (the delivery vehicle) itself. When that happens your immune system interferes with the delivery vehicle getting into your cells and the effectiveness of these vaccines would erode over time.

[rabas]

21 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Correct.  And it doesn't stop you from getting the virus and passing it on.  I'm guessing some who've been jabbed think they don't have to wear masks or social distance any more.  That's not the case.

There is confusion between stopping most and stopping all infections. No vaccine stops all infections, which sometimes leads to the phrase can't stop, which in turn is misinterpreted as can't stop any, which is quite wrong.

 

In Israel, Pfizer's vaccine was found to prevent 94% of asymptomatic infections, meaning you don't get the disease and you can't pass it on.  94% stopped is enough to bring the spread to a halt.

 

OTH, with a lesser vaccine you are still right to say a person 'could' pass it on.

 

Gone with the wind:

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by rabas

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

There is confusion between stopping most and stopping all infections. No vaccine stops all infections, which sometimes leads to the phrase can't stop, which in turn is misinterpreted as can't stop any, which is quite wrong.

 

In Israel, Pfizer's vaccine was found to prevent 94% of asymptomatic infections, meaning you don't get the disease and you can't pass it on.  94% stopped is enough to bring the spread to a halt.

 

OTH, with a lesser vaccine you are still right to say a person 'could' pass it on.

 

Gone with the wind:

 

 

 

Seems these mRNA jabs are the way to go.  I'll pass on the Chinese ones.  And would rather not get the AZ jab.  That means probably September or so for the Pfizer or Moderna jab here in Thailand.  I'm guessing....

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Seems these mRNA jabs are the way to go.  I'll pass on the Chinese ones.  And would rather not get the AZ jab.  That means probably September or so for the Pfizer or Moderna jab here in Thailand.  I'm guessing....

mRNA is looking to be the clear front runner and vaccine of choice. I agree. AZ has done its job but there are better.

[cclub75]

Let's not forget Maldives ! Another vaccino-disaster.

 

Population 500 000. Vaccination started in a blast in february. The idea ? Very simple : tourism is everything therefore, full vaccination will make visitors feel safe and they will come back.

 

They started with Covishield (the AstraZeneca... made in India).

 

On march 22, they added Sinopharm (China).

 

Source : https://raajje.mv/99520

 

75 % of the population (adult) have received 1 dose.

 

Here is the result :

 

 

The government imposed a curfew.

 

Source : https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/maldives-imposes-night-curfew-after-steep-jump-in-covid-19-infections-101620292092524.html

 

Bye bye wet dreams of rich tourists coming back anytime soon...