‘Vaccine hesitancy’ bites in Thailand – but one province has the antidote

[Jingthing]

Good effort there. Kudos.

But enquiring minds want to know, what did they say to any HIGH RISK expats in Lampang who asked to be registered (without a pink card)? Hmm? 

[VBF]

5 hours ago, Antonymous said:

<snip>

The Covid vax is designed to reduce your symptoms if you get infected, but it doesn't prevent you from getting infected, doesn't give you immunity and above all doesn't stop you from infecting another person. In other words you have the risk of being infected by a vaxed person or by an unvaxed person, if they are infected.

 

That thought process is somewhat out of date. In this article it says:

 

The latest government data - based on evidence from the rollout - suggests one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine cuts the risk of infection by as much as 70% and death by even more.

 

A vaxed person can still carry the virus but in far smaller amounts than a vaxed person, so to paraphrase your comment:

"In other words you have LESS risk of being infected by a vaxed person than by an unvaxed person, EVEN if they are infected."

Edited May 12, 2021 by VBF

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, Antonymous said:

 

So what?

 

If you have health insurance that covers Covid treatment (I do) you don't have to pay for treatment if you are hospitalised with Covid, vaccinated or not.

 But your health insurance document/premium isn't going to reduce the severity of the illness if you catch Covid 19, in fact for many older folks the possibility is being on a ventilator with a very severe illness leading to death, whereas if you're vaccinated you escape the ventilator and possible death from Covid 19.

[Letseng]

On 5/12/2021 at 11:18 AM, Antonymous said:

 

So what?

 

If you have health insurance that covers Covid treatment (I do) you don't have to pay for treatment if you are hospitalised with Covid, vaccinated or not.

I'd rather not use my insurance and get vaccinated. A mild dose of Covid is bad enough but a fully blown one and may be ICU paid by insurance I do without.

[Been There]

On 5/12/2021 at 3:47 PM, VBF said:

 

That thought process is somewhat out of date. In this article it says:

 

The latest government data - based on evidence from the rollout - suggests one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine cuts the risk of infection by as much as 70% and death by even more.

 

A vaxed person can still carry the virus but in far smaller amounts than a vaxed person, so to paraphrase your comment:

"In other words you have LESS risk of being infected by a vaxed person than by an unvaxed person, EVEN if they are infected."

So why did the vax manufactures say it wouldn't stop transmission and it wouldn't give you immunity from covid, when they released it on the public ? 

[VBF]

10 hours ago, Been There said:

So why did the vax manufactures say it wouldn't stop transmission and it wouldn't give you immunity from covid, when they released it on the public ? 

For goodness sake....at least READ my post to which you responded! 

 

I said:    That thought process is somewhat out of date. 

 

It was released months ago and the manufacturers were necessarily cautious - nearly every day brings the results of new research into Covid-related issues.

[Been There]

2 hours ago, VBF said:

For goodness sake....at least READ my post to which you responded! 

 

I said:    That thought process is somewhat out of date. 

 

It was released months ago and the manufacturers were necessarily cautious - nearly every day brings the results of new research into Covid-related issues.

I have read the post  ..... are you suggesting the manufactures didn't know ? ... are you suggesting they are rolling out a totally untested vaccine ? and we are just waiting to see what happens?
I don't think there should be any room for "thought process" when they are giving this jab to billions of people.  We don't have any mid or long term data on the effects of the vaccine, but hey if you want to be a lab rat ... that's your choice .... but you should respect other peoples choice not to be.
 

[Nojohndoe]

On 5/12/2021 at 1:59 PM, Isaan sailor said:

Nobody can force me to take a Chinese vaccine.  Period.

Who is?

[Nojohndoe]

On 5/12/2021 at 1:36 PM, Antonymous said:

 

That would be a dreadful affront to human rights.

How so if given a choice?

[Nojohndoe]

2 hours ago, Been There said:

I have read the post  ..... are you suggesting the manufactures didn't know ? ... are you suggesting they are rolling out a totally untested vaccine ? and we are just waiting to see what happens?
I don't think there should be any room for "thought process" when they are giving this jab to billions of people.  We don't have any mid or long term data on the effects of the vaccine, but hey if you want to be a lab rat ... that's your choice .... but you should respect other peoples choice not to be.
 

We are all life's  lab rats in the first instance. Which is exactly why people are not compelled (as yet) to accept a vaccine!

 

[Nojohndoe]

Does nobody consider the portent of bravery by those who partook or are partaking in trials of various vaccines  who in order to assist an outcome subjected themselves to either a experimental substance or a saline placebo but despite which results in a debate of total self interest as to  which one is a personal preference  in a manner similar to a debate about sports shoes  as a fashion item rather than a fit for purpose consideration?

Budget  flip flops or some over priced krap made in neighbouring  factory?

Both stop you from getting  dog sh.t between  your toes!

[Been There]

Just now, Nojohndoe said:

We are all life's  lab rats in the first instance. Which is exactly why people are not compelled (as yet) to accept a vaccine!

 

"We are all life's  lab rats" ..... you might be ... I'm certainly not, it takes years to test a vaccine properly .. this hasn't been done.  This is totally against the Nuremberg Code, which was agreed after WW2 to stop humans being used as lab rats ..... maybe you are a supporter of  Josef Mengele ?

[Nojohndoe]

26 minutes ago, Been There said:

"We are all life's  lab rats" ..... you might be ... I'm certainly not, it takes years to test a vaccine properly .. this hasn't been done.  This is totally against the Nuremberg Code, which was agreed after WW2 to stop humans being used as lab rats ..... maybe you are a supporter of  Josef Mengele ?

So obviously you have planned and ordered your existence thus far  regardless of external influences ! I would be impressed i it could be  believed.

Those  years to test a vaccine.... no human lab rats involved? Not even  voluntary ones?  Why years? Establishment of efficacy  needs  so long  or is the massive  funding for the extended development 

a factor?

Been there? Been where?

 

[VBF]

4 hours ago, Been There said:

I have read the post  ..... are you suggesting the manufactures didn't know ? ... are you suggesting they are rolling out a totally untested vaccine ? and we are just waiting to see what happens?
I don't think there should be any room for "thought process" when they are giving this jab to billions of people.  We don't have any mid or long term data on the effects of the vaccine, but hey if you want to be a lab rat ... that's your choice .... but you should respect other peoples choice not to be.
 

Are you being deliberately obtuse or is English your second language?

 

At the time the vaccines were released, the manufacturers were not sure whether the vaccines would stop transmission or not, as that is not the primary job of a vaccine. Their primary job is to prevent the recipient from getting sick - that was known to work.  Because they were not sure they quite rightly erred on the side of caution and said that the vaccines might not hinder transmission.

 

However, now, several months later, it has become apparent from further testing, that the vaccines do indeed aid in preventing transmission. 

 

And if you bothered, once again to read the link or watch the TV programme https://www.channel4.com/programmes/jabbed-inside-britains-vaccine-triumph you would see that the testing HAS been carried out but in much less time than usual but just as thoroughly. 

 

You appear to be amongst the "anti-vaxxer" community, and to be sure you have the right not to take a vaccine - that's your choice and i defend your right.

 

However I'm sure you won't mind being excluded from travel, sporting and musical events and whatever else requires proof of vaccination...after all, it's your choice.

[Been There]

41 minutes ago, VBF said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse or is English your second language?

 

At the time the vaccines were released, the manufacturers were not sure whether the vaccines would stop transmission or not, as that is not the primary job of a vaccine. Their primary job is to prevent the recipient from getting sick - that was known to work.  Because they were not sure they quite rightly erred on the side of caution and said that the vaccines might not hinder transmission.

 

However, now, several months later, it has become apparent from further testing, that the vaccines do indeed aid in preventing transmission. 

 

And if you bothered, once again to read the link or watch the TV programme https://www.channel4.com/programmes/jabbed-inside-britains-vaccine-triumph you would see that the testing HAS been carried out but in much less time than usual but just as thoroughly. 

 

You appear to be amongst the "anti-vaxxer" community, and to be sure you have the right not to take a vaccine - that's your choice and i defend your right.

 

However I'm sure you won't mind being excluded from travel, sporting and musical events and whatever else requires proof of vaccination...after all, it's your choice.

Yes  ... exclude healthy people because you've been brainwashed. 
If the vaccine works, how would an unvaccinated person pose a risk to a one that's been vaccinated ?  .....
Maybe make the unvaccinated people wear a coloured star on their clothing and for good measure tattoo a number on their wrist ... put them on trains to camps in the countryside  ..... 
I defend your right to take an experimental vaccine ... but I wouldn't demand your exclusion from society ! (maybe I would make an exception in your case) Nobody has any mid or long term data to prove that the vaccinated pose no threat later. If you think you win the argument by saying "anti-vaxxer" ...you're deluded. That's a cheap shot used by people who cannot prove a point.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Been There

[TheFreqFlyer]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:22 PM, Brierley said:

Comparing forced vaccinations of prison camp inmates during the Nazi regime, and vaccination of the population of a country during a pandemic is just plain sick.

No it isn't, it's the same thing. A pandemic is NOT an acceptable excuse to abuse human rights and take away all of our freedoms. 

 

Additionally, if my knowledge of that period of history serves me correctly, the Nazis also enforced mandatory vaccination. Not only of the prisoners in their camps, but the general population as well (school children). The East German Communist government continued with the mandatory vaccination law, until it was lifted when Communism fell in 1989. However, at least one German state has re-introduced mandatory vaccination (for the MMR shot) in early 2020. This mandate applies to school students and their teachers. Since school attendance is mandatory in Germany (homeschooling is illegal) it's effectively not possible to get out of this without moving out of the country or staying under the radar and not putting your children in school. 

[VBF]

44 minutes ago, Been There said:

Yes  ... exclude healthy people because you've been brainwashed. 
If the vaccine works, how would an unvaccinated person pose a risk to a one that's been vaccinated ?  .....
Maybe make the unvaccinated people wear a coloured star on their clothing and for good measure tattoo a number on their wrist ... put them on trains to camps in the countryside  ..... 
I defend your right to take an experimental vaccine ... but I wouldn't demand your exclusion from society ! (maybe I would make an exception in your case) Nobody has any mid or long term data to prove that the vaccinated pose no threat later. If you think you win the argument by saying "anti-vaxxer" ...you're deluded. That's a cheap shot used by people who cannot prove a point.

You ask "If the vaccine works, how would an unvaccinated person pose a risk to a one that's been vaccinated ?  ....."

They wouldn't but what if the unvaccinated person mixes with other unvaccinated people?  There's your spread right there.

The answer is we all get vaccinated as soon as possible - it's quite clear.

 

Regarding " experimental vaccines"  - there is basically no need to prove a point to anyone so patently unwilling to study and comprehend the evidence provided. Did you bother to watch the video to which I provided a link?

 

No there wasn't been time before you rebutted my post. Good day to you.

Edited May 14, 2021 by VBF

[Brierley]

10 minutes ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

No it isn't, it's the same thing. A pandemic is NOT an acceptable excuse to abuse human rights and take away all of our freedoms. 

 

Additionally, if my knowledge of that period of history serves me correctly, the Nazis also enforced mandatory vaccination. Not only of the prisoners in their camps, but the general population as well (school children). The East German Communist government continued with the mandatory vaccination law, until it was lifted when Communism fell in 1989. However, at least one German state has re-introduced mandatory vaccination (for the MMR shot) in early 2020. This mandate applies to school students and their teachers. Since school attendance is mandatory in Germany (homeschooling is illegal) it's effectively not possible to get out of this without moving out of the country or staying under the radar and not putting your children in school. 

Welcome to my ignore list. Byee.

[TheFreqFlyer]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:38 PM, Been There said:

 

I didn't compare anything  ... merely pointed out that the Nazi's used threats and intimidation to experiment on unwilling members of society. 
This is an experimental vaccine ... no mid or long term data .... hasn't been approved by the FDA and people like yourself agreeing that threatening people into compliance is a good thing  ..... Josef Mengele would be proud of you.

 

They did indeed and vaccination was made mandatory by the Nazis and applied not only to prisoners, but also the German population. School children had to be vaccinated and since schooling was already compulsory - there was no choice but to comply, unless parents took their children and went into hiding. 

[Been There]

2 hours ago, VBF said:

You ask "If the vaccine works, how would an unvaccinated person pose a risk to a one that's been vaccinated ?  ....."

They wouldn't but what if the unvaccinated person mixes with other unvaccinated people?  There's your spread right there.

The answer is we all get vaccinated as soon as possible - it's quite clear.

 

Regarding " experimental vaccines"  - there is basically no need to prove a point to anyone so patently unwilling to study and comprehend the evidence provided. Did you bother to watch the video to which I provided a link?

 

No there wasn't been time before you rebutted my post. Good day to you.

You said in your first post .... "latest government data" .... meaning no one knew of these effects when the vaccine was released on the public. That's because it is still in the trial phase ... we don't have any data of mid or long term effects. It hasn't been approved by the FDA because it is still being tested ... by definition that means it is an experimental vaccine !! ..... 
I couldn't give 2 hoots about a Channel4 video .... I could direct you to 100's of videos saying different.
You've tried the anti vaxx argument (it didn't work) now trying the I know best argument, still doesn't work.
If people don't want the vaccine, the only people it might effect is other people who don't want the vaccine  ...... what happened to the "your choice"  argument you used before ?
The answer is .... let the guinea pigs take the vaccine ("your choice") and if the wiser people don't want to take it, that's their choice ..... stop demanding everyone should do as you do, 

[Been There]

2 hours ago, Brierley said:

Welcome to my ignore list. Byee.

Classic  ... hasn't got a clue how to answer  ... so buries his head in the sand  ....... adding people to his "ignore list" 

[Brierley]

2 hours ago, Been There said:

Classic  ... hasn't got a clue how to answer  ... so buries his head in the sand  ....... adding people to his "ignore list" 

I was born 5 years after WWII ended, I studied the war in detail for many years, I grew up in the after effects of the war, I visited Dunkirk and Dieppe on the ferry when there were still pill boxes and tank traps on the beaches. My parents, uncles and other relatives fought in that war, our family lost members in Europe and the Pacific. As an adult I worked in Munich for two years, I visited Dachau, Auschwitz and Buchenwald, I have talked with people who were interned in those camps. I have spoken with German people about the war, about their experiences and about the Nazi regime. I have read Mein Kamp and Albert Speers autobiography and Rise and Fall of Third Reich. I know without a single doubt that there are absolutely no similarities whatsoever between the things the Nazi regime did and what governments today are trying to do in their desire to stop the covid19 pandemic by offering vaccinations. People who try to make comparisons between the two don't have the first clue what they are talking about and are only trying to impress others by interjecting the word Nazi's into their arguments. That's why you're both on my ignore list, you have demonstrated, right out of the gate, a total failure to comprehend academically, intellectually and humanitarianly and we will almost certainly never have anything meaningful or useful to discuss.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Brierley

[Damrongsak]

 

I got the shots, but what the heck.  I'm 67 and have emphysema.  Worth the risk.  I never got flu shots, though the 3 times I've had it were no fun at all. 

 

"...Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now..."

[Been There]

3 hours ago, Brierley said:

I was born 5 years after WWII ended, I studied the war in detail for many years, I grew up in the after effects of the war, I visited Dunkirk and Dieppe on the ferry when there were still pill boxes and tank traps on the beaches. My parents, uncles and other relatives fought in that war, our family lost members in Europe and the Pacific. As an adult I worked in Munich for two years, I visited Dachau, Auschwitz and Buchenwald, I have talked with people who were interned in those camps. I have spoken with German people about the war, about their experiences and about the Nazi regime. I have read Mein Kamp and Albert Speers autobiography and Rise and Fall of Third Reich. I know without a single doubt that there are absolutely no similarities whatsoever between the things the Nazi regime did and what governments today are trying to do in their desire to stop the covid19 pandemic by offering vaccinations. People who try to make comparisons between the two don't have the first clue what they are talking about and are only trying to impress others by interjecting the word Nazi's into their arguments. That's why you're both on my ignore list, you have demonstrated, right out of the gate, a total failure to comprehend academically, intellectually and humanitarianly and we will almost certainly never have anything meaningful or useful to discuss.

Firstly ... you must be a liar ... you said I was on your ignore list ... but you've seen my post 
Secondly ... I don't give 2 hoots about your life story.
Also ...  governments are not "offering" the injection .. they are threatening to make a persons life intolerable if they don't take the vaccine.
The vaccine has not received FDA approval because it is still in the trial phase, most trials are due to finish by 2022/23.
The Nuremberg Code specifically forbids the testing of drugs or vaccines on the the population, and here you are championing sanctions against people who don't want to take part in this experiment.
Forcing anyone to take a vaccine (never mind an experimental one) should always be viewed as a Nazi policy, because after all ... that's what they did. 
 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Been There

[VBF]

13 hours ago, Been There said:

You said in your first post .... "latest government data" .... meaning no one knew of these effects when the vaccine was released on the public. That's because it is still in the trial phase ... we don't have any data of mid or long term effects. It hasn't been approved by the FDA because it is still being tested ... by definition that means it is an experimental vaccine !! ..... 
I couldn't give 2 hoots about a Channel4 video .... I could direct you to 100's of videos saying different.
You've tried the anti vaxx argument (it didn't work) now trying the I know best argument, still doesn't work.
If people don't want the vaccine, the only people it might effect is other people who don't want the vaccine  ...... what happened to the "your choice"  argument you used before ?
The answer is .... let the guinea pigs take the vaccine ("your choice") and if the wiser people don't want to take it, that's their choice ..... stop demanding everyone should do as you do, 

Put your rattle back in your pram, read what i actually said rather than what you choose to read into it and congratulations on being the first on my ignore list.

[Been There]

3 hours ago, VBF said:

Put your rattle back in your pram, read what i actually said rather than what you choose to read into it and congratulations on being the first on my ignore list.

ooh  . I wonder if I'll lose sleep if you put me on that list  ..... ???? ... em .... no I won't 
"The latest government data" is copied and pasted from you post .... which part are you claiming you didn't write ? .....
I would agree with everything you've said ... but that would make us both wrong !
It is easier to fool the people, than to convince them they have been fooled.
This is bang on the button for the people who are willing to adopt the Josef Mengele school of medicine ... well done

[heybruce]

16 hours ago, Been There said:

Firstly ... you must be a liar ... you said I was on your ignore list ... but you've seen my post 
Secondly ... I don't give 2 hoots about your life story.
Also ...  governments are not "offering" the injection .. they are threatening to make a persons life intolerable if they don't take the vaccine.
The vaccine has not received FDA approval because it is still in the trial phase, most trials are due to finish by 2022/23.
The Nuremberg Code specifically forbids the testing of drugs or vaccines on the the population, and here you are championing sanctions against people who don't want to take part in this experiment.
Forcing anyone to take a vaccine (never mind an experimental one) should always be viewed as a Nazi policy, because after all ... that's what they did. 
 

Approval process in the United States (most western nations have similar processes):

 

"Clinical development is a three-phase process. During Phase I, small groups of people receive the trial vaccine. In Phase II, the clinical study is expanded and vaccine is given to people who have characteristics (such as age and physical health) similar to those for whom the new vaccine is intended. In Phase III, the vaccine is given to thousands of people and tested for efficacy and safety.

Many vaccines undergo Phase IV formal, ongoing studies after the vaccine is approved and licensed."   https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html

 

Vaccines approved for use in the US have passed the first three phases.

 

Between 1% and 2% of people known to have contracted Covid 19 in the US have died.  The people who have died after vaccination (not necessarily for reasons having anything to do with Covid or the vaccination) is about 1/1000 this percentage.

 

"Over 259 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 10, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,434 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. ....... A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines."   https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

In other words, there is no evidence any of these deaths were caused by the vaccination.  If you track over 100 million people over a five month period, chances are thousands of these people will die of something during that time.

 

 

[Been There]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Approval process in the United States (most western nations have similar processes):

 

"Clinical development is a three-phase process. During Phase I, small groups of people receive the trial vaccine. In Phase II, the clinical study is expanded and vaccine is given to people who have characteristics (such as age and physical health) similar to those for whom the new vaccine is intended. In Phase III, the vaccine is given to thousands of people and tested for efficacy and safety.

Many vaccines undergo Phase IV formal, ongoing studies after the vaccine is approved and licensed."   https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html

 

Vaccines approved for use in the US have passed the first three phases.

 

Between 1% and 2% of people known to have contracted Covid 19 in the US have died.  The people who have died after vaccination (not necessarily for reasons having anything to do with Covid or the vaccination) is about 1/1000 this percentage.

 

"Over 259 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 10, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,434 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. ....... A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines."   https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

In other words, there is no evidence any of these deaths were caused by the vaccination.  If you track over 100 million people over a five month period, chances are thousands of these people will die of something during that time.

 

 

It is widely acknowledged only between ! and 10% of cases are reported to VAERS, before covid, it was accepted it was less than 1%
if they used the same criteria as they do for calculating covid deaths ie: any death within 28 days of a positive test result (even people with a terminal disease, or killed in an accident are included) there is no doubt the death figures would be much higher.
I think there is plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine, never mind 28 days.
The vaccine hasn't been approved by the FDA ... it's only been given emergency authorisation. 
So this is still phase three, also can you direct me to the long term effect data ?
But more importantly .... at what point did I say the vaccine was causing deaths  ?
Looks like maybe, that's what you are thinking , so accuse me of saying that ?

https://odysee.com/@thetruthwillsetyoufree:f4/dr.-ezike-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-recorded.:8
 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Been There

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:22 PM, Brierley said:

Comparing forced vaccinations of prison camp inmates during the Nazi regime, and vaccination of the population of a country during a pandemic is just plain sick.

Giving people a free and fair choice of which vaccine they take is just common sense,  if not a basic human right.

Let's not forget the Thalidomide kids.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#:~:text=In November 1961%2C thalidomide was,of them in West Germany.

[Been There]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:22 PM, Nojohndoe said:

So obviously you have planned and ordered your existence thus far  regardless of external influences ! I would be impressed i it could be  believed.

Those  years to test a vaccine.... no human lab rats involved? Not even  voluntary ones?  Why years? Establishment of efficacy  needs  so long  or is the massive  funding for the extended development 

a factor?

Been there? Been where?

 

I said  ... I'm not a human lab rat  ... if you want to be  ... knock yourself out. As for the rest of your incomprehensible ramblings, that's something else. 
Also,  your last quip ... been more places than you will ever go, or know, sad Johndoe