Why are Golf Courses Open?

[tlandtday]

Given the current guidelines not allowing sitting on the beach, walking with a beer, swimming in a pool, wo people outside a condo, gyms closed etc. can anyone provide a rational explanation why Golf Courses are allowed open?  It is my understanding that Golf Courses throughout Thailand are open.  This makes absolutely no sense in light of the current guidelines. 

[richard_smith237]

 

If Covid-19  has shown us anything, its how some people can totally disregard regulations and how others can judge everyone around them with utter sanctimony and often hypocrisy. 

 

Covid-19 has also shown us how intelligent balance can be lost in the noise of the extremes of those who just don’t care and those who are neurotic and panic and over-react. 

 

 

Banning golf probably makes sense to those who think that because they are sacrificing something they enjoy that everyone else should be sacrificing something, i.e. those who enjoy telling others they can’t do stuff.

 

 

But really, what is the risk of Golf ?....   People drive to a course, play their game, drive home.

They don’t have to use the changing facilities. Its easy to remain isolated. 

 

Its not more ‘risky’ than having a few friends around to your house for dinner (regulations in Thailand are no gatherings of >20ppl, a golf 4 ball is defiantly less risk than having 8 guests round to your house - (the Phuket story was an outlier of local regulations and dumb enforcement). 

 

At the courses, in the open etc, playing with their own balls etc - its perfectly possible to remain socially isolated (>2m from others).

 

Having Caddies may muddy the waters. Golf without caddies would lower the risk of transmission but even with caddies, the numbers of people involved presents far less risk than say a Wet Market, a Shopping Mall, Villa Market, Tops, regular Malls etc...

 

It could be argued that shops are a necessity and Golf s a hobby and that argument would be accurate, but there is no real need to ‘prevent people’ from enjoying a hobby just because others have to stop doing what they want. 

 

I’m not a golfer, but don’t see a reason for courses to close. I play Tennis and football etc... I see no reason for Tennis to closed either. But, I do see where there is elevated risk in transmission from team sports and accept that these need to be stopped for the time being. 

 

 

Regarding the other activities: 

Gyms: Indoors, breathing heavily - increased risk of transmission. 

Pools: no reason to close theses IMO

Beach: No reason to close the beaches - thats just a dumb knee jerk reaction (if they are closed)

Beer in public: Too many people drink and then flout regulations, been in public or on public property increases the risk of people congregating, thats regulation is just to enforce the lowest common denominator. 

 

 

 

[tgw]

good post by richard above

 

it makes no sense to close golf courses, as far as I know, there is no documented case of transmission on a golf course (worldwide).

 

yes, some other regulations don't make sense, it's not a reason to extend nonsensical regulations to golf courses too.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/13/covid-outside-safety/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/us/coronavirus-what-to-do-outside.html

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/4/24/21233226/coronavirus-runners-cyclists-airborne-infectious-dose

 

 

[tlandtday]

Good replies this confirms that the strategy employed is not consistent.  If two people sitting outside a condo is a violation than four people riding in a golf court must be no different?  Why the exception for golf courses?

Edited May 13, 2021 by tlandtday
clarify

[scubascuba3]

Golf is zero risk, my 4 ball all go to the course separately then play golf outside mostly separated. 

 

With regard to pools and beaches they seem concerned groups of people will get together and get drunk. Personally i think they should just say no groups but keep them open

Edited May 13, 2021 by scubascuba3

[internationalism]

they have just vaccinated all golf pretties, as their clients are also already jabbed, there is a small chance for a repeat of thonglor clubs (which were forced to shut).

 

problem with access to beaches is that some start socialising there, including partying.

Edited May 13, 2021 by internationalism

[tgw]

Just now, tlandtday said:

Good replies this confirms that the strategy employed is not consistent.  However let's not forget the equation that most Thai golfers fall into the upper income category.  I personally believe if you are making restrictions they must be fair across the board or don't make them at all.

 

golf courses were closed during the first lockdown.

 

I can see why public swimming pools and beaches are closed, it's because Thais like to visit them in groups with practically no distancing, and enforcing distancing would be very difficult for officers.

 

your post reads like "because golfers are high income, their low to no risk activity needs to be banned too"

 

 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

Good replies this confirms that the strategy employed is not consistent.  However let's not forget the equation that most Thai golfers fall into the upper income category.  I personally believe if you are making restrictions they must be fair across the board or don't make them at all.

 

Just because golfers fall into the ‘upper income category’ does not make it logical to ban an outdoor activity which for the most part is already socially isolated and away from crowds and busy areas. 

 

Banning 20 guys from playing football is a separate issue from banning a 4 ball of golf regardless of socio-economics. 

 

 

A ‘one size fits all’ approach to activity does not make any logical sense. 

 

 

The Optics of allowing golf while not allowing football etc are only poor for those with a specific negative bias towards the wealthy - there is no logical reason to ban golf, on a course or at the driving range. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tlandtday]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

 

Just because golfers fall into the ‘upper income category’ does not make it logical to ban an outdoor activity which for the most part is already socially isolated and away from crowds and busy areas. 

 

Banning 20 guys from playing football is a separate issue from banning a 4 ball of golf regardless of socio-economics. 

 

 

A ‘one size fits all’ approach to activity does not make any logical sense. 

 

 

The Optics of allowing golf while not allowing football etc are only poor for those with a specific negative bias towards the wealthy - there is no logical reason to ban golf, on a course or at the driving range. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not really if you look at the policies regarding social distancing and riding in busses etc. why are golfers allowed to ride in carts with no distancing, gather in groups of up to four etc.  I am just pointing out the inconsistency. 

[Bangkokhatter]

Just to add to Richard's excellent post above, all courses i have played recently have all closed off the changing areas and if in a cart you are separated from the Caddies by a plastic screen.

 

It has been proven that some exercise in the open air also boosts your immune system so another good reason to get out and have a swing.

 

However it is further proof of the mixed up thinking by those in charge who set the rules, but this is not just happening in Thailand, there are strange rules being set by many countries.

[tlandtday]

Just now, Bangkokhatter said:

Just to add to Richard's excellent post above, all courses i have played recently have all closed off the changing areas and if in a cart you are separated from the Caddies by a plastic screen.

 

It has been proven that some exercise in the open air also boosts your immune system so another good reason to get out and have a swing.

 

However it is further proof of the mixed up thinking by those in charge who set the rules, but this is not just happening in Thailand, there are strange rules being set by many countries.

okay good post 

[tgw]

6 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

not really if you look at the policies regarding social distancing and riding in busses etc. why are golfers allowed to ride in carts with no distancing, gather in groups of up to four etc.  I am just pointing out the inconsistency. 

 

golfers are not allowed to ride in carts with no distancing.

there is a plastic sheet separating the caddie from the player in the golfcart.

 

also, they do not gather in groups of four, they just play on the same hole, normally always separated by even more than the minimum safe distance, unless it's some crazies, like up-close to your face talkers and compulsive huggers. I'd ban these anyway even without covid.

 

AFAIK, golfers currently also can't use locker rooms or restaurant facilities at the course.

Edited May 13, 2021 by tgw

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

not really if you look at the policies regarding social distancing and riding in busses etc. why are golfers allowed to ride in carts with no distancing, gather in groups of up to four etc.  I am just pointing out the inconsistency. 

 

When in use, Golf Carts are modified to isolate the Golfer from the Caddy. 

IMO - there is no need for a caddy at all.

But, Caddies are still used and can still be isolated. 

 

I am allowed to gather in a group of <20 at my house for dinner. i.e. 4 or 5 friends can come round for dinner.

This is riskier than a game a of golf with 3 others. 

 

 

Inconsistencies will always be found because no two different activities are consistent.

 

 

Valid arguments can be made both for and against golf, along with may other activities which can be banned or not banned.

 

Between the extremes of neurotic overthinking at one end of the spectrum to careless disregard at the other end of the spectrum a logical and intelligent balance can be achieved. Not everyone is capable of thinking with intelligent balance and look for risk in everything we do, risk will be found because nothing is water tight and risk free. 

 

We should step back and view activities objectively, without bias or emotion - Golf presents hardly any risk to golfers or caddies. If someone wants to argue that some risk still exists, they would be correct, but the risk of transmitting Covid-19 while playing golf is minimal (IMO).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

The average golf course occupies 180 acres of land. That's a lot of potential for social distancing.

All the caddies wear masks. I don't, I'm not in a public place. Golf clubs are private property. Every golf course in Chiang Rai checks my temperature upon entry.

I sometimes play by myself, sometimes in company. I'm not too concerned about that, because I hit the ball straight.

[tlandtday]

26 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

When in use, Golf Carts are modified to isolate the Golfer from the Caddy. 

IMO - there is no need for a caddy at all.

But, Caddies are still used and can still be isolated. 

 

I am allowed to gather in a group of <20 at my house for dinner. i.e. 4 or 5 friends can come round for dinner.

This is riskier than a game a of golf with 3 others. 

 

 

Inconsistencies will always be found because no two different activities are consistent.

 

 

Valid arguments can be made both for and against golf, along with may other activities which can be banned or not banned.

 

Between the extremes of neurotic overthinking at one end of the spectrum to careless disregard at the other end of the spectrum a logical and intelligent balance can be achieved. Not everyone is capable of thinking with intelligent balance and look for risk in everything we do, risk will be found because nothing is water tight and risk free. 

 

We should step back and view activities objectively, without bias or emotion - Golf presents hardly any risk to golfers or caddies. If someone wants to argue that some risk still exists, they would be correct, but the risk of transmitting Covid-19 while playing golf is minimal (IMO).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are the one overthininking this I am just pointing out an inconsistency lol

[AlfHuy]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

If Covid-19  has shown us anything, its how some people can totally disregard regulations and how others can judge everyone around them with utter sanctimony and often hypocrisy. 

 

Covid-19 has also shown us how intelligent balance can be lost in the noise of the extremes of those who just don’t care and those who are neurotic and panic and over-react. 

 

 

Banning golf probably makes sense to those who think that because they are sacrificing something they enjoy that everyone else should be sacrificing something, i.e. those who enjoy telling others they can’t do stuff.

 

 

But really, what is the risk of Golf ?....   People drive to a course, play their game, drive home.

They don’t have to use the changing facilities. Its easy to remain isolated. 

 

Its not more ‘risky’ than having a few friends around to your house for dinner (regulations in Thailand are no gatherings of >20ppl, a golf 4 ball is defiantly less risk than having 8 guests round to your house - (the Phuket story was an outlier of local regulations and dumb enforcement). 

 

At the courses, in the open etc, playing with their own balls etc - its perfectly possible to remain socially isolated (>2m from others).

 

Having Caddies may muddy the waters. Golf without caddies would lower the risk of transmission but even with caddies, the numbers of people involved presents far less risk than say a Wet Market, a Shopping Mall, Villa Market, Tops, regular Malls etc...

 

It could be argued that shops are a necessity and Golf s a hobby and that argument would be accurate, but there is no real need to ‘prevent people’ from enjoying a hobby just because others have to stop doing what they want. 

 

I’m not a golfer, but don’t see a reason for courses to close. I play Tennis and football etc... I see no reason for Tennis to closed either. But, I do see where there is elevated risk in transmission from team sports and accept that these need to be stopped for the time being. 

 

 

Regarding the other activities: 

Gyms: Indoors, breathing heavily - increased risk of transmission. 

Pools: no reason to close theses IMO

Beach: No reason to close the beaches - thats just a dumb knee jerk reaction (if they are closed)

Beer in public: Too many people drink and then flout regulations, been in public or on public property increases the risk of people congregating, thats regulation is just to enforce the lowest common denominator. 

 

 

 

At the courses, in the open etc, playing with their own balls etc - its perfectly possible to remain socially isolated (>2m from others).

 

They better do.

[AlfHuy]

56 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Just because golfers fall into the ‘upper income category’ does not make it logical to ban an outdoor activity which for the most part is already socially isolated and away from crowds and busy areas. 

 

Banning 20 guys from playing football is a separate issue from banning a 4 ball of golf regardless of socio-economics. 

 

 

A ‘one size fits all’ approach to activity does not make any logical sense. 

 

 

The Optics of allowing golf while not allowing football etc are only poor for those with a specific negative bias towards the wealthy - there is no logical reason to ban golf, on a course or at the driving range. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And why to close all swimming pools.

In my condo, you would see rarely a Thai as they don't like to sit in the sun.

Most of the time, it's a private pool for me and if there are a couple of other people, what's the fuss?

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

I think you are the one overthininking this I am just pointing out an inconsistency lol

 

You’v asked the question why? and are now criticism thought on the subject ????

 

 

No criticism of you in this....  you’ve raised a valid point. One which I think think highlights how lot of people do not step back and see a bigger picture when drawing criticism of the regulations and why and how they may vary for differing activities. 

 

You highlighted an issue which also existed in the UK last year. 

Golf courses closed, and when they opened back up with ‘distancing regulations’ a load of non-golfers complained, why are they allowed to do their hobby, a lot of the criticism was borne of an underlying distasted for those who appear to be socio-economcally better off than others.  Many of the same people criticising golf courses for being open wanted pubs to open, which I think spells out a particular mindset !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Surelynot]

I read on BP that all employees of the Armed Forces golf courses have been vaccinated........will sleep well tonight knowing the Generals are safe.

[Surelynot]

Just now, AlfHuy said:

And why to close all swimming pools.

In my condo, you would see rarely a Thai as they don't like to sit in the sun.

Most of the time, it's a private pool for me and if there are a couple of other people, what's the fuss?

All our facilities have just opened back up.....albeit with limited numbers of people .....but as the condo is virtually empty it is basically back to normal......might have to start training again .......☹️

[richard_smith237]

Just now, AlfHuy said:

And why to close all swimming pools.

In my condo, you would see rarely a Thai as they don't like to sit in the sun.

Most of the time, it's a private pool for me and if there are a couple of other people, what's the fuss?

 

I don’t think its necessary to close all swimming pools.

 

We have about 100 houses in our Moobaan and the pool gets busy in the evenings - the pool and gym have been closed. I understand why. 

 

My friend lives in a much quieter Moobaan with about 20 houses, only 3 or 4 people use the pool. The juristic committee announced the closure of the pool and have been ignored... there’s no logical reason to close a pool which only a few people use. 

 

 

An approach based on common sense and the individual merits of the situation would be best. 

 

[smutcakes]

39 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I don’t think its necessary to close all swimming pools.

 

We have about 100 houses in our Moobaan and the pool gets busy in the evenings - the pool and gym have been closed. I understand why. 

 

My friend lives in a much quieter Moobaan with about 20 houses, only 3 or 4 people use the pool. The juristic committee announced the closure of the pool and have been ignored... there’s no logical reason to close a pool which only a few people use. 

 

 

An approach based on common sense and the individual merits of the situation would be best. 

 

 

Until a Juristic Person or Committee Member try and rule on commen sense and allow the swimming pool to stay open. Low and behold some infection spreads and someone in the condo dies..... yeah no thanks i would rather not take the risk as a Committee Member. Easier to sleep at night following the Government directive.

 

I am sure at some condos the pools are very low risk and hardly ever used, but you would need to be a brave manager, committee member to go against the Govt directive, even if you disagree with it.

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

Until a Juristic Person or Committee Member try and rule on commen sense and allow the swimming pool to stay open. Low and behold some infection spreads and someone in the condo dies..... yeah no thanks i would rather not take the risk as a Committee Member. Easier to sleep at night following the Government directive.

 

I am sure at some condos the pools are very low risk and hardly ever used, but you would need to be a brave manager, committee member to go against the Govt directive, even if you disagree with it.

 

Agreed, I think thats why pretty much all condo and moo-baan pools are currently closed. 

 

But, in some smaller moo-baans the individual owners just continue using the pool - there is not much the juristic committee can do, in such situations they’ve done their part and covered their bases.

 

 

 

 

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Agreed, I think thats why pretty much all condo and moo-baan pools are currently closed. 

 

But, in some smaller moo-baans the individual owners just continue using the pool - there is not much the juristic committee can do, in such situations they’ve done their part and covered their bases.

 

 

 

 

 

And the wider banning on booze etc- i think overall they have banned things which like congregate people together for parties, drinking etc. Yes many retired people swim alone, but its impossible to do anything but have a blanket rule which covers the stupid element who would drink and congregate.

 

The vast majority of people can swim, have a beer etc whilst not being a danger to themselves or others. But its simply not possible to have a million different scenarios of what is and is not allowed at every situation. You have to have rules to the lowest common denominator.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Bangkok Governor Police General Aswin Kwanmuang on 7 May 2021 issued Announcement No. 27 extending the duration of temporary closure of certain venues in Bangkok until 17 May 2021.
 

Right at the Bottom of the announcement…. All types of indoor and outdoor sports venues , golf courses and driving ranges, and swimming pools for sports or marine activity in ponds.

 

Unsure what other governors have made law for their dark red Provence’s.

 

Notice was on PR Thai Government Facebook page 8 May.

 

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Advocatus Diaboli said:

Bangkok Governor Police General Aswin Kwanmuang on 7 May 2021 issued Announcement No. 27 extending the duration of temporary closure of certain venues in Bangkok until 17 May 2021.
 

Right at the Bottom of the announcement…. All types of indoor and outdoor sports venues , golf courses and driving ranges, and swimming pools for sports or marine activity in ponds.

 

Unsure what other governors have made law for their dark red Provence’s.

 

Notice was on PR Thai Government Facebook page 8 May.

 

 

Yet some golf course are open. Some football arena’s are open to play 5/6 a’side (I have had the option but not played that takes me outside of an existing bubble agreed with friends).

 

As with anything, the strength of the regulations depends entirely on the strength of enforcement. 

 

 

[topt]

19 hours ago, tgw said:

AFAIK, golfers currently also can't use locker rooms or restaurant facilities at the course.

Varies around the Pattaya courses. More locker rooms currently open then closed.

I only know specifically of 3 closures out of about 20 courses as of this week.

 

Many you can still also get beers at.............

[Clarkey611]

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

If Covid-19  has shown us anything, its how some people can totally disregard regulations and how others can judge everyone around them with utter sanctimony and often hypocrisy. 

 

Covid-19 has also shown us how intelligent balance can be lost in the noise of the extremes of those who just don’t care and those who are neurotic and panic and over-react. 

 

 

Banning golf probably makes sense to those who think that because they are sacrificing something they enjoy that everyone else should be sacrificing something, i.e. those who enjoy telling others they can’t do stuff.

 

 

But really, what is the risk of Golf ?....   People drive to a course, play their game, drive home.

They don’t have to use the changing facilities. Its easy to remain isolated. 

 

Its not more ‘risky’ than having a few friends around to your house for dinner (regulations in Thailand are no gatherings of >20ppl, a golf 4 ball is defiantly less risk than having 8 guests round to your house - (the Phuket story was an outlier of local regulations and dumb enforcement). 

 

At the courses, in the open etc, playing with their own balls etc - its perfectly possible to remain socially isolated (>2m from others).

 

Having Caddies may muddy the waters. Golf without caddies would lower the risk of transmission but even with caddies, the numbers of people involved presents far less risk than say a Wet Market, a Shopping Mall, Villa Market, Tops, regular Malls etc...

 

It could be argued that shops are a necessity and Golf s a hobby and that argument would be accurate, but there is no real need to ‘prevent people’ from enjoying a hobby just because others have to stop doing what they want. 

 

I’m not a golfer, but don’t see a reason for courses to close. I play Tennis and football etc... I see no reason for Tennis to closed either. But, I do see where there is elevated risk in transmission from team sports and accept that these need to be stopped for the time being. 

 

 

Regarding the other activities: 

Gyms: Indoors, breathing heavily - increased risk of transmission. 

Pools: no reason to close theses IMO

Beach: No reason to close the beaches - thats just a dumb knee jerk reaction (if they are closed)

Beer in public: Too many people drink and then flout regulations, been in public or on public property increases the risk of people congregating, thats regulation is just to enforce the lowest common denominator. 

 

 

 

I am so poor at golf that I always social distance with the other players. However, the sunshine and fresher air are good to prevent the SARS-CoV-2 virus and I have yet to hear about anyone contracting the virus on a golf course. Similarly with the amount of chlorine in swimming pools, the virus has no chance of spreading, but TIT.

[Dexxter]

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

in the open etc, playing with their own balls etc - its perfectly possible to remain socially isolated

 

I can understand why

[fulhamster]

21 hours ago, tlandtday said:

Good replies this confirms that the strategy employed is not consistent.  If two people sitting outside a condo is a violation than four people riding in a golf court must be no different?  Why the exception for golf courses?

Golf courses won't allow 4 people on a cart.

Now you have to have your own, and the caddy must drive !!

The courses now make double on cart revenue - except for those who walk (where courses will allow)