Thai woman dies hours after receiving AstraZeneca vaccine

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, Liebemein said:

Unfortunately I am forced from a company to get it. I don't want it yet. What should I do? Anywhere in this world not forcing human being?

 

Seriously are you listening to your own words, personally I would resign with the reasons documented and start a law suite, for unfair dismissal as no one has the right to force you to get vaccinated against your own free will. Bit then again, if your weak, you will comply. Up to you.

 

The above said, I wish you all the best.

[Scott]

Baiting, bickering posts removed.   Please keep it civil.  

 

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, Liebemein said:

Unfortunately I am forced from a company to get it. I don't want it yet. What should I do? Anywhere in this world not forcing human being?

Slip the nurse 1,000bht to not stick the needle in you.

[BritManToo]

23 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Seriously are you listening to your own words, personally I would resign with the reasons documented and start a law suite,

I've always found keeping my mouth shut and prevaricating to be the best answer to everything.

Calling in sick at awkward moments also worked well for me in the west.

[4MyEgo]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've always found keeping my mouth shut and prevaricating to be the best answer to everything.

Calling in sick at awkward moments also worked well for me in the west.

 

Total opposite, bull with horns, and never been sacked, always took my arguments to them and they could see my points.

 

Each point could of ended up in litigation.....lol

 

 

[jak2002003]

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I’m struggling to understand how this still needs explaining !!!.....    

 

For medical reasons, not everyone will be able to take the vaccines - these people remain at risk. 

The vaccines will not work, for everyone who takes the vaccine - these people are still at risk.

The effectiveness of the vaccines will wear off after time, people will need boosters, some will forget, these people are at risk. 

 

This is where the ‘herd immunity' comes into it. When a community is vaccinated, the spread of Covid-19 throughout that community is significantly impeded. It is possible for ’some’ people to remain contagious, but as a result of the vaccine their viral load is lower, they are contagious for a shorter period of time, they will spread the virus to a lesser degree. In a community which is vaccinated, a contagious person would spread the virus to someone who is not impacted, has lower viral load, is either not contagious at all, or contagious for a shorter period of time.. and so on and so on...

 

In a community which is vaccinated beyond ‘critical mass’ - ultimately the R number is significantly cut that while there always remains a risk of spread, such would be significantly reduced ultimately affording safety for those described at the beginning of my spiel...i.e. those unable to take vaccines for medical reasons. 

 

Thus: Not taking the vaccine on an individual basis does not present significant danger to a vaccinated population. However, if enough people don’t take a vaccine in aggregate they present danger to the community on a whole or more specifically to those who are unable to be vaccinated for genuine reasons. 

 

Thus not getting vaccinated is selfish... It's outlining that you don’t give a flying fig about the community in which you live and don’t care to play your part to protect those who can’t be vaccinated.

 

 

A final point: IF major proportions of a community are not vaccinated, SARS-CoV-2 can continue to spread and continue to evolve into variants of greater concern, the risk being that with sufficient antigenic drift a variant could evolve against which our existing vaccine models are ineffective and the global community is forced to lock down once again....  and thats not the worst case scenario !!!! - fear mongering???? maybe, but the reality and potential exists and right now the vaccines exist....   The only question left to ask is why wouldn’t a person want to be vaccinated and the answers to that question are wholly unconvincing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no chance of the situation you describe, of most of the population not getting the vaccination.  

 

If you are vaccinated you still can contract Covid 19. You just don't develop severe symptoms.  

 

So you can still pass it on to the vulnerable people you talk about. The virus can still mutate.  It could even mutate to a more deadly strain because the the vaccinations...a strain that is resistant to vaccines...like the current problem with bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics.

 

These vulnerable people you talk about will be in the minority. They will be in hospitals if they are so immune suppressed, sick, or bedridden in their homes with medical staff taking care of them. They are going to be venerable to many other viruses and diseases or simply the weather!

 

These people that can't have the injections will not be mixing with the general population outside  if they are that I'll and delicate they are hardly going to be going to shopping malls, bars or going to watch a movie. If their medical care is so poor that these people are exposed to viruses and bacteria so easily, that that is the fault of the hospital or care giver..

 

You may be correct about vaccinated people having s lower vital load...but they still have one...still can pass it on, mutations of the virus can still happen, even if the subject is vaccinated.

 

The people your fear so much who dont get the vaccine probable will have had the Covid 19 already and have got over it, so have natural immunity to it.....so they also will have the benefits of being vaccinated.. they will have the lower viral load, they won't develop sever symptoms if they get it again, etc. 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

On 6/10/2021 at 8:53 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

My point being, that if a food product was associated with blood clots that killed people, but rare, it would be pulled from the shelves, but governments have more power than you or I can imagine. We all need food to survive, assuming this food product was the only food left, would they pull it from the shelves, no, benefits outweigh the risks.

Agree with the sentiment but you are wrong about where the power lies, it is with the media, they have been all over this like a rash making irresponsible implications.

The EMA investigations have indicated a possible link to Thrombocytopenia and the rare side effects of that condition. Thrombocytopenia can be induced by a variety of causes, including alcohol.

I have never seen a media report that alcohol can lead to very rare blood clots. If there ever was one would people stop drinking, or weigh up the odds and take the risk, every chance the latter.

The media, both social and MSM have a lot to answer for with regard to the vaccine.

[4MyEgo]

10 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The media, both social and MSM have a lot to answer for with regard to the vaccine.

 

I believe the USA government and WHO have a lot to answer for, as well as the media, but will we ever get to the bottom of this. What I am saying is, they pulled other medicines that Dr's could use to treat patients, but no they pulled the medicines off of the shelves, played God and allowed hundreds of thousands of people go untreated, e.g. something would have been better than nothing, but no, they rushed the vaccines to the table, leaving so many people to die, because they wouldn't allow those medicines, e.g. Ivermectin to be used for example, but because of the golden standard rule, i.e. it had to be proven that it worked in a large study group who big pharma wouldn't pay for as it wouldn't be as profitable IMO to the vaccines, wait for the boosters, this industry is now going to be providing us with annual boosters.

 

Taking a vaccine is in your own, your responsibility, you are signing off on a waiver that you accept it if it all goes wrong with no comeback, whatever happened to the Dr treat patient scenario and if the s-hit hit the fan, the Dr was liable ? 

[mommysboy]

13 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

Don't put out misinformation. It is both Sinovac and AZ. I have read the article.

 

The Thai abbot and this 46 year old woman died of AZ and not Sinovac.

 

 

 

Deaths take a long time to be investigated. The AZ vaccine has only been rolled out in large numbers in the last few days.  Most investigations will be related to the Sinovac vaccine.

[jacko45k]

On 6/10/2021 at 1:37 AM, jak2002003 said:

Yes. Similar to the pro Covid vaccination people that count ever death as a Covid 19 death even if the people died of heart attacks or cancer but happened to test positive to the virus. 

This is another frequently made comment that I don't see the evidence of, bar the claim many USA hospitals did this as it brought in more money. If the person died in hospital, I would expect that could happen... but who is to say whether Covid can be ruled out as a contributing factor, and why were they tested?

The UK always clearly states 'died within 28 days of a positive test'... but I don't believe someone who just left the clinic and got run down by a bus gets on the Covid deaths list. 

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, rabas said:

 

For clarity,  mRNA vaccines do not suffer the same VITT blood-clotting issues now known to be due to some adendovirus vaccines namely AZ and J&J. Reference: https://www.uptodate.com/contents/covid-19-vaccine-induced-immune-thrombotic-thrombocytopenia-vitt

 

"VITT has not been reported after mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines such as the BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) or the mRNA-1273 (Moderna) vaccines despite administration and safety data collection from hundreds of millions of recipients. " (emphasis from article)

 

mRNA vaccines are not free from problems, look at Switzerland where only mRNA are used.

 

" Retrospectively, however, there is an approximate reporting rate of one per 1,000 doses administered."

https://www.swissmedic.ch/swissmedic/en/home/news/coronavirus-covid-19/nebenwirkungen-covid-19-impfungen-update-3.html

[Liebemein]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Seriously are you listening to your own words, personally I would resign with the reasons documented and start a law suite, for unfair dismissal as no one has the right to force you to get vaccinated against your own free will. Bit then again, if your weak, you will comply. Up to you.

 

The above said, I wish you all the best.

There are 2 choices; one to get vaccine and another one is having swab test every week. I have only 2 options in this company, I prefer inaccurate test which Kary mullis who could tell what it is, unfortunately he die 2 months before pandemic started.

[Liebemein]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Total opposite, bull with horns, and never been sacked, always took my arguments to them and they could see my points.

 

Each point could of ended up in litigation.....lol

 

 

Here in Thailand is different.

[4MyEgo]

27 minutes ago, Liebemein said:

Here in Thailand is different.

 

Sorry if I come across as being egotistic, but we are probably in different financial positions which means you have a need to work, as I don't, been there, done that and am self funded now.

 

But if you don't want to get vaccinated, then try looking for other options regarding tests as I hear there are other self testing kits currently available, maybe not here yet, but I have seen comments where some TVF members have said they are getting theirs flown in from the USA.

 

I agree Thailand is different, but we MUST ALL remain in control of our choices, because once you give into them, the rest follow and you will be amongst the flock.

 

Your between a rock and a hard place, but you still do have a choice, stand up or bend over, it is your choice, no wrong or right to you as you need to make ends meet to survive, as for me, well different boat and even if I couldn't sue, I would opt out of the job if it meant going against my choice, otherwise I wouldn't be free, but that is just my make up.

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Seriously are you listening to your own words, personally I would resign with the reasons documented and start a law suite, for unfair dismissal as no one has the right to force you to get vaccinated against your own free will. Bit then again, if your weak, you will comply. Up to you.

 

The above said, I wish you all the best.

Obviously, his chances of winning a lawsuit depend on the laws where he lives. In the US the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission says employers are allowed to require workers to be vaccinated. A hospital in Texzs just suspended 178 workers who refused to be vaccinated.

And, of course, governments and school systems throughout the world have long required various vaccinations.

In most places, if you don't want to be vaccinated, you have the right to quit your job.

[RR2020]

Shocking report on Sinovac vaccinations: Increased Covid cases after using vaccine | The Manila Times

 

..........The first reported death after vaccination in Hong Kong occurred on February 28. On March 28, within just one short month, 13 people in Hong Kong, aged 55 to 80, died after receiving the vaccination. Eleven of them were given the Sinovac shots, while the other two had received Pfizer/BioNTech............

[RR2020]

 

All the vaccines are causing some deaths.................

 

But of course...........AZ is a "not for profit" vaccine........so there is a lot more knives stabbing it in the back, people and companies selling vaccines for profit DO NOT want countries and governments buying AZ.   

 

Orange County woman's death after 2nd dose of Moderna COVID-19 vaccine spurs concern from family - ABC7 Los Angeles

 

 

.

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, RR2020 said:

Shocking report on Sinovac vaccinations: Increased Covid cases after using vaccine | The Manila Times

 

..........The first reported death after vaccination in Hong Kong occurred on February 28. On March 28, within just one short month, 13 people in Hong Kong, aged 55 to 80, died after receiving the vaccination. Eleven of them were given the Sinovac shots, while the other two had received Pfizer/BioNTech............

Full of holes.................if I were to be worried it would be more about the the AZ vaccine rather than sinovac, which I am not.

[4MyEgo]

56 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Obviously, his chances of winning a lawsuit depend on the laws where he lives. In the US the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission says employers are allowed to require workers to be vaccinated. A hospital in Texzs just suspended 178 workers who refused to be vaccinated.

And, of course, governments and school systems throughout the world have long required various vaccinations.

In most places, if you don't want to be vaccinated, you have the right to quit your job.

 

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/employment-law/pages/if-workers-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccination.aspx

[Eindhoven]

On 6/9/2021 at 12:26 PM, Eindhoven said:

 

Thai  female friend of mine, similar age; also complaining of fever and headache. Though this is with Sinovac. She's not happy; but hopefully will be ok.

 

Update: She feels better now. 

Had jab on Monday and even up to yesterday went to hospital again as still feeling unwell. Today, Friday, feels better.

Obviously not everyone will have the same reaction.

[4MyEgo]

9 minutes ago, RR2020 said:

 

All the vaccines are causing some deaths.................

 

But of course...........AZ is a "not for profit" vaccine........so there is a lot more knives stabbing it in the back, people and companies selling vaccines for profit DO NOT want countries and governments buying AZ.   

 

Orange County woman's death after 2nd dose of Moderna COVID-19 vaccine spurs concern from family - ABC7 Los Angeles

 

 

.

 

It's all about how they word it, e.g. 2 in 100,000 people die from vaccination, 1,660 in 100,000 people stand the risk of getting Covid.

 

The above said, they don't say anything about how many people of those 1,660 in 100,000 who are at risk of getting Covid, make a full recovery, and there in lay the problem.

 

It's all about the Covid vaccines and of course, no one dies of these Covid vaccines, they keep telling us that, repeat, cleans and repeat, no one will take responsibility because if they dare suggest it is the vaccine, people won't take them, and they need people to take them so that they can keep everything under their control.

[4MyEgo]

15 hours ago, Liebemein said:

Unfortunately I am forced from a company to get it. I don't want it yet. What should I do? Anywhere in this world not forcing human being?

 

Having had a further look into this, you could argue religious grounds, here is a copy of their discrimination act, page 13 might fit into your situation, although you will have to look at what religion doesn't accept vaccinations and say you are that religion.

 

http://www3.mol.go.th/sites/default/files/downloads/pdf/sd4.pdf

[mtls2005]

An RTAF medico briefed at the CCSA today. English spokesman mentioned an autopsy was performed. Looks like heart disease unrelated to the vaccination.

 

Would not be waiting for any transparency here.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

There is no chance of the situation you describe, of most of the population not getting the vaccination.  

 

Which will allow for herd immunity regardless of the selfish minority who don’t want a vaccine.

 

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

If you are vaccinated you still can contract Covid 19. You just don't develop severe symptoms.  

 

Ergo lower viral load for a shorter period of time, far greater reduced chance of transmission. 

 

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

So you can still pass it on to the vulnerable people you talk about. The virus can still mutate.  It could even mutate to a more deadly strain because the the vaccinations...a strain that is resistant to vaccines...like the current problem with bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics.

 

The vaccine with the least efficacy is Sinovac - 50% of people who take sinovac will no not contract covid when exposed... thats 50% better than nothing. The remainder may contract Covid-19 with no symptoms (28%), lower viral load, lower transmission (no coughing etc), the remaining 22% are reported to have symptoms ranging from mild to moderate.

 

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

These vulnerable people you talk about will be in the minority. They will be in hospitals if they are so immune suppressed, sick, or bedridden in their homes with medical staff taking care of them. They are going to be venerable to many other viruses and diseases or simply the weather!

 

True, but as you say, people who have been vaccinated can still carry the virus, thus with more people vaccinated there is less opportunity for the virus to be transmitted through a community. Thus, those treating and those I’m proximity to the vulnerable will have a far greater chance of coming in contact with SARS Covid-19 - herd immunity. 

 

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

These people that can't have the injections will not be mixing with the general population outside  if they are that I'll and delicate they are hardly going to be going to shopping malls, bars or going to watch a movie.

 

Some people are simply allergic to vaccines, they are not ill. 

When a community is vaccinated, those people can live normally with reduced risk of contracting Covid-19.

 

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

If their medical care is so poor that these people are exposed to viruses and bacteria so easily, that that is the fault of the hospital or care giver..

 

And the fault of those who refused the vaccine. 

 

For example - there was a measles spike in the US a coupe of years ago which was directly related to a drop in vaccinations, innocent children were hurt. 

 

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

You may be correct about vaccinated people having s lower vital load...but they still have one...still can pass it on, mutations of the virus can still happen, even if the subject is vaccinated.

 

Vaccinated people can still contract and transmit the SARS-CoV-2 virus - BUT in a vaccinated community the potential or transmission is significantly reduced to such a degree that the R number (rate of transmission) is less than 1 (i.e. 1 person transmits to less than 1 person).

 

There is a  ‘vaccine critical mass’ which relies on a number of factors such as population density, cultural habits etc...  this ‘mass’ is thought to be around 75% but obviously is variable and dependant of the type of vaccine etc 

But, if this vaccine 'critical mass’ is not achieved the SARS-CoV-2 virus can still be transmitted through a community. 

IF this vaccine critical mass is achieved, even if the SARS-CoV-2 virus is introduced to a community there is insufficient transmission throughout the community for an outbreak to take hold and the community on a whole is protected. 

 

When there are greater numbers of people refusing the vaccine it becomes more difficult for the community to reach this vaccine critical mass and the community on an not everyone in the community remains unprotected (unvaccinated children, unvaccinated people, those who are ill and at high risk, those medically unable to take the vaccine etc).

 

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

The people your fear so much who dont get the vaccine probable will have had the Covid 19 already and have got over it, so have natural immunity to it.....so they also will have the benefits of being vaccinated.. they will have the lower viral load, they won't develop sever symptoms if they get it again, etc. 

 

Wrong, a lot of people have not had Covid-19 and are thus at risk themselves if they choose not to get vaccinated and continue to present risk to others. 

Additionally, those who have had Covid-19 already do not have everlasting anti-bodies, the do not carry lifetime immunity.

 

This is not a ‘catch it once’ you can’t catch it again type of virus like measles. 

 

 

There are all the reasons to vaccinate, I have only seen flawed reasons not to vaccinate. 

 

The closest valid reason I have seen for people to be fearful of vaccinates are the possible ‘untested’ longterm impacts feared by those who do not understand the mRNA vaccines and the VITT risk of AZ feared by those who struggle with what a 4 in 1 million risk actually is while at the same time riding their motorcycle around !

 

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

It could even mutate to a more deadly strain because the the vaccinations...a strain that is resistant to vaccines...like the current problem with bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics.

 

I wanted to address this separately:

 

Without vaccination the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 virus though a community will be faster with greater risk of mutation. The objectives of mass vaccination are ultimately to prevent spread such that mutation does not exist or at least when there is transmission the strain can be tracked. IF there is a mutation it can be identified more easily and the virologists can track the antigenic drift and ‘adjust’ the vaccines accordingly -

 

i.e. with reduced transmission its easier for the virologists to make vaccines which evolve alongside the virus. 

 

 

Your bacteria analogy is flawed - viruses and bacteria are different beasts.

 

Without vaccines viruses will mutate at a faster rate, there is a greater risk of antigenic drift into a variant which is more difficult to vaccinate against. 

Vaccines slow down transmission, slow down antigenic drift, vaccines can keep up with the variant, more people are protected. 

 

 

 

[Liebemein]

47 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Having had a further look into this, you could argue religious grounds, here is a copy of their discrimination act, page 13 might fit into your situation, although you will have to look at what religion doesn't accept vaccinations and say you are that religion.

 

http://www3.mol.go.th/sites/default/files/downloads/pdf/sd4.pdf

Thank you. It would suit my case if I was a Christian in US or Europe.

[RR2020]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

It's all about how they word it, e.g. 2 in 100,000 people die from vaccination, 1,660 in 100,000 people stand the risk of getting Covid.

 

The above said, they don't say anything about how many people of those 1,660 in 100,000 who are at risk of getting Covid, make a full recovery, and there in lay the problem.

 

It's all about the Covid vaccines and of course, no one dies of these Covid vaccines, they keep telling us that, repeat, cleans and repeat, no one will take responsibility because if they dare suggest it is the vaccine, people won't take them, and they need people to take them so that they can keep everything under their control.

 

Lifetime immunity comes from T Cells.

 

The vaccine companies have got everyone focussed on antibodies.

 

Very simply, if your T Cells are good you wont make any or many antibodies.  Antibodies are like a back up.......the final line of defence if your T cells are useless.

 

Only the people with poor immune systems dont have T cells capable of killing the virus and end up requiring antibodies to survive.

 

If you look at the bigger picture here............people who get Covid and recover quickly....will be immune of life.  Their T cells are fine and the memory T cells will protect in future - regardless of variants.

 

But those with weak immune systems (because they are sick, or obese, or unift, or unhealthy) will need a once yearly vaccine now for Covid............ = money = profits.

 

Interestingly its been well proven for a long time that people with low Vitamin D levels have poor T cell response.  See below link from 2010.

 

Vitamin D crucial to activating immune defenses -- ScienceDaily

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/employment-law/pages/if-workers-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccination.aspx

I looked at that link. There's nothing there that supports an absolute right to refuse to be vaccinated. You can't just refuse to be vaccinated on the grounds that you don't want to be.

Edited June 11, 2021 by placeholder

[4MyEgo]

4 minutes ago, RR2020 said:

Interestingly its been well proven for a long time that people with low Vitamin D levels have poor T cell response.  See below link from 2010.

 

I take C, D, Zink. Magnesium and a multi-vitamin daily, blood pressure and all the blood tests are perfect, so if I do end up with it, I hope my T cells shake it off.

Edited June 11, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[Liebemein]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Slip the nurse 1,000bht to not stick the needle in you.

I tried today, it failed. Too many nurses and many steps.