Widow thinks husband’s death may be linked to AZ vaccine

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, patman30 said:

Agreed, now apply that same logic to "died within 28 days of testing positive" ????

And for a small percentage that will probably be the case? Or are you contending that some large percentage of those who come down with covid are dying within 28 days because of some other disease or condition? Do you understand that excess mortality statistics are a pretty powerful argument against such a contrention?

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, patman30 said:

thats some mental gymnastics
apply the same logic
if you test a large percentage of asymptomatic people
it is inevitable that some will die after being tested

If agreeing with you is mental gymnastics then I plead guilty 

 

[wprime]

22 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

Here's what you wrote:

"If he died directly from HCM he would have had progressively worsening shortness of breath for months/years."

Here's what the mayo clinic says:

 

"Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy often goes undiagnosed because many people with the disease have few, if any, symptoms and can lead normal lives with no significant problems. However, in a small number of people with HCM, the thickened heart muscle can cause shortness of breath, chest pain or problems in the heart's electrical system, resulting in life-threatening abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias) or sudden death."

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypertrophic-cardiomyopathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20350198

 

You don't see any contradiction there. You claimed that he would have had those symptoms. The Maya Clinic says that occurs in a minority of cases.

 

Yes the article is correct in that a majority of people with HCM don't have symptoms, but your extension of it to conclude that a majority of people who died directly from HCM don't have symptoms is wrong.

Edited June 13, 2021 by wprime

[EricTh]

24 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Stop posting misleading information.

 

https://theconversation.com/what-is-thrombocytopenia-the-rare-blood-condition-possibly-linked-to-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-158522

 

I'm not posting misinformation. Any doctor know what is the cause of heart attacks and stroke.

 

I have already posted a link as to why AZ cause blood clots which is quite a technical article. Did you even bother to read that article?

Edited June 13, 2021 by EricTh

[ChipButty]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

I think there needs to be more screening on who should get the vaccine.

 

 

Where my wife went they were very good, she was interviewed by a Doc and show her medical records as she did have cancer 5 years ago 

[cdemundo]

43 minutes ago, wprime said:

 

That's a circular argument. A perfectly healthy appearing person with HCM can die suddenly from increases in blood viscosity. The fact that he died is not evidence that he was symptomatic beforehand.

No it's not a circular argument.  It's a syllogism.

A healthy person does not die of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Mr. X died of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Therefore, Mr. X was not a healthy person.

 

The diagnosis of the doctors was that he died of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is a pathological condition of the heart that develops over time.

Not in 4 days.

You keep insisting this guy could have been healthy, but he wasn't.

Doctors found that this man had pathological changes of the heart muscle that led to his death.  That is why he was diagnosed with death by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

"A perfectly healthy appearing person with HCM".

Yes, you can be:  "A perfectly healthy appearing person with HCM", but you can't be  "A perfectly healthy person with HCM".

HCM is a pathological condition of the heart, if you have it, you are not healthy.

 

You are manifestly wrong but don't want to admit it.

OK, the pulpit is yours, bloviate on.

 

 

 

[Stocky]

Vaccines don't confer immortality.

[wprime]

2 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

No it's not a circular argument.  It's a syllogism.

A healthy person does not die of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Mr. X died of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Therefore, Mr. X was not a healthy person.

 

The diagnosis of the doctors was that he died of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is a pathological condition of the heart that develops over time.

Not in 4 days.

You keep insisting this guy could have been healthy, but he wasn't.

Doctors found that this man had pathological changes of the heart muscle that led to his death.  That is why he was diagnosed with death by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

"A perfectly healthy appearing person with HCM".

Yes, you can be:  "A perfectly healthy appearing person with HCM", but you can't be  "A perfectly healthy person with HCM".

HCM is a pathological condition of the heart, if you have it, you are not healthy.

 

You are manifestly wrong but don't want to admit it.

OK, the pulpit is yours, bloviate on.

 

 

 

 

As I said, the relatives said he was healthy which means he appeared healthy. That doesn't mean he was healthy, nor did I claim he developed HCM in 4 days.

 

All you've done is made up some nonsense, pretended I said it, then argued against it like a mad man.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

I don't know why they report these things ? It only serves to fuel peoples fears. If a large percentage of the populations vaccinated, it is inevitable that some of them will die in the following days. People have been ding since Adam and Eve. LOL

If there is any credible evidence, by all means please report it. but "Widow thinks husband’s death may be linked to AZ vaccine ." is ridiculous and irresponsible reporting 

We shouldn't be too quick to judge her, or the reporters, we may end up with egg on your faces, she may be a forensic pathologist!

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

the widow of Pruettichai, told reporters today (Saturday) that her husband was a healthy man and did not have any underlying diseases, adding that the family has doubt that he died of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (the thickening of the wall of the heart, blocking blood flow of blood out of the heart)

He was a "healthy man with no underlying diseases"... apart from suffering from hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.   Ok.

[Nojohndoe]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

I would think exactly the same .

I am not criticizing the wife for thinking what she is thinking, I am criticizing the reporters for reporting it.  

 

Or more specifically reporting inferring that the vaccine was a direct cause.

It maybe but until a full autopsy report is available such inference is irresponsible IMO.

I have worked with and  known others who until their late fourties to fifties were unaware of unsuspected congenital heart conditions that were discovered due to medical examinations or tests unrelated to expected diagnosis.

Many people can appear to be healthy until a suden event demonstrates they are not.

 

[sirineou]

Just now, Nojohndoe said:

Or more specifically reporting inferring that the vaccine was a direct cause.

It maybe but until a full autopsy report is available such inference is irresponsible IMO.

I have worked with and  known others who until their late fourties to fifties were unaware of unsuspected congenital heart conditions that were discovered due to medical examinations or tests unrelated to expected diagnosis.

Many people can appear to be healthy until a suden event demonstrates they are not.

 

That was me.

at sixty during a routine physical for certification, a heart murmur was detected, I was told i had to see a cardiologist before my certification was issued. I saw a cardiologist and he said I was born with a bicuspid Aortic heart  valve, where instead of three slits I had  two, and would not certify me. He said I could live 20 years with it, or I could die tomorrow, but he would not certify me. Long story short , I had Aortic valve repayment. 

If I was vaccinated and died a couple of days later , they would had said , healthy marathon runner dies after vaccinated.   

[chilli42]

6 hours ago, anchadian said:

All previous reports concerning deaths with possible linking to vaccines have not mentioned type of vaccine.

 

It's only recently that the vaccine has been named, i.e. AstraZeneca.  Sinovac hasn't been mentioned.

 

Think about it.

 

 

Nothing going on there.  AZ vaccine has the backing (and investment) of the highest authority.  

[club]

3 minutes ago, chilli42 said:

Nothing going on there.  AZ vaccine has the backing (and investment) of the highest authority.  

Tell the 18 countries that have banned AZ that it has the highest investment and authority. It was banned for a reason

[Puccini]

6 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

...Mrs. Rattana Klabching, the widow of Pruettichai, told reporters today (Saturday) that her husband was a healthy man and did not have any underlying diseases, adding that the family has doubt that he died of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (the thickening of the wall of the heart, blocking blood flow of blood out of the heart) as claimed by doctors at Wachira Phuket Hospital....

 

What is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy?

 

Quote

 

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) is a disease in which the heart muscle becomes abnormally thick (hypertrophied). The thickened heart muscle can make it harder for the heart to pump blood.

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy often goes undiagnosed because many people with the disease have few, if any, symptoms and can lead normal lives with no significant problems...

Read more: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypertrophic-cardiomyopathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20350198

 

From the full text of the above article it would appear that hypertrophic cardiomyopathy does not develop over the short period of three days and that an autopsy should easily establish its presence. Perhaps it was wrong for the doctor at the Wachira Phuket Hospital to voice his diagnosis.

[cvs04]

Correlation does not mean causation, this is true. 

 

However, couple that with this being the third similar Thai report I've seen in the last week and the data (under-reported) coming from Israel, Seychelles, Europe, US recently I think we are long past asking some questions, if that is allowed these days.  People are dropping like flies and every time the media claim unrelated coincidence.

 

Any other medication would have been pulled off the market already, however no liability for the manufacturers so they don't care.

 

Top medical professionals were warning of this long before the rollout were shunned, had their careers destroyed and verbally attacked across social platforms and the media.  I think it's time these people, who are now being proven correct, to join the conversation.

 

 

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, cvs04 said:

Correlation does not mean causation, this is true. 

 

However, couple that with this being the third similar Thai report I've seen in the last week and the data (under-reported) coming from Israel, Seychelles, Europe, US recently I think we are long past asking some questions, if that is allowed these days.  People are dropping like flies and every time the media claim unrelated coincidence.

 

Any other medication would have been pulled off the market already, however no liability for the manufacturers so they don't care.

 

Top medical professionals were warning of this long before the rollout were shunned, had their careers destroyed and verbally attacked across social platforms and the media.  I think it's time these people, who are now being proven correct, to join the conversation.

 

 

Peoiple are dropping like flies"?Thanks for the lack of specific numbers. So convincing. In no way do your comments resemble a rant.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, club said:

Tell the 18 countries that have banned AZ that it has the highest investment and authority. It was banned for a reason

It was banned because there are vaccines that are even better. But compared to the odds of dying or suffering long term damage from covid, AZ is a lot safer.

[club]

3 minutes ago, cvs04 said:

Correlation does not mean causation, this is true. 

 

However, couple that with this being the third similar Thai report I've seen in the last week and the data (under-reported) coming from Israel, Seychelles, Europe, US recently I think we are long past asking some questions, if that is allowed these days.  People are dropping like flies and every time the media claim unrelated coincidence.

 

Any other medication would have been pulled off the market already, however no liability for the manufacturers so they don't care.

 

Top medical professionals were warning of this long before the rollout were shunned, had their careers destroyed and verbally attacked across social platforms and the media.  I think it's time these people, who are now being proven correct, to join the conversation.

 

 

People here in Thailand are afraid to speak up, Especially the government They have put all their eggs in one basket with AZ. They built a plant here to manufacture 62 million doses at low cost. If it gets shut down, I really dont know what Thailand does. That's why nobody will talk bad about it. I am sure China with supply 100 million doses of Sinovac at a low cost.  

[metisdead]

A post containing content that was copy and pasted from some site without a supporting link has been removed. 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, club said:

So you already know the 2 people here that died of a heart attack also had blood clots? 

I don't already know anything, other than what was said was misleading.

The continual arbitrary references to blood clots may well mislead some to taking anticoagulant measures, which could be very dangerous if in fact Thrombocytopenia were to materialise.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Puccini said:

 

What is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy?

 

Read more: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypertrophic-cardiomyopathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20350198

 

From the full text of the above article it would appear that hypertrophic cardiomyopathy does not develop over the short period of three days and that an autopsy should easily establish its presence. Perhaps it was wrong for the doctor at the Wachira Phuket Hospital to voice his diagnosis.

 

Exactly..... As soon as Cardiomyopath was identified in the postmortem the cause of death is most clearly not vaccine related.

 

So many people seem to want to avoid facts and cling on to the hysteria - it's astonishing. 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, club said:

Tell the 18 countries that have banned AZ that it has the highest investment and authority. It was banned for a reason

 

And that reason is media hysteria and political ar$e covering..... 

 

.... Once the media dug its claws into AZ the politicians of some countries protected their positions, not out of the interests of the population, but out of self interest. 

 

Those in positions of decision making power were making decisions based on ‘just in case’ - its the same as doing nothing and why so many people in such positions are ineffective. 

 

People of a committee don’t get blamed for doing nothing, but they get blamed if they are the one who speaks out and is incorrect. 

 

Thus: the media gets hold of a story and in some poorly ran committees the vaccine gets pulled, while the vaccine is proven to help millions, there is a statistical risk to 3-4 out of a million people - Only a politician could protect themselves from being blamed for the risk of 3-4 people suffering VITT while millions of others are helped. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[redwood1]

Why cant people here just admit that there ARE people who have died after taking these vaccines......Name a single drug JUST ONE that is recommended for ever single person on earth..........Even aspirin or antacids are not recommended for EVERYONE..... As far as I know there are no pre vaccine tests at all....

Edited June 13, 2021 by redwood1

[club]

31 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

And that reason is media hysteria and political ar$e covering..... 

 

.... Once the media dug its claws into AZ the politicians of some countries protected their positions, not out of the interests of the population, but out of self interest. 

 

Those in positions of decision making power were making decisions based on ‘just in case’ - its the same as doing nothing and why so many people in such positions are ineffective. 

 

People of a committee don’t get blamed for doing nothing, but they get blamed if they are the one who speaks out and is incorrect. 

 

Thus: the media gets hold of a story and in some poorly ran committees the vaccine gets pulled, while the vaccine is proven to help millions, there is a statistical risk to 3-4 out of a million people - Only a politician could protect themselves from being blamed for the risk of 3-4 people suffering VITT while millions of others are helped. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right now it has the highest death rate after vaccination. It also has the highest symptom rate after vaccination. I could see 2,3 or 4 countries stopping this, but not 18 . Something is not right here 

[cvs04]

58 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Please provide a link to this ridiculously suspicious graphic. It bears no relation to EudraVigilance's published figures

https://www.adrreports.eu/en/search_subst.html# Scroll down to Covid 19 there is a link for each vaccine.

[Mavideol]

10 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

The authorities should be very, very, very transparent, open, honest when investigating and reporting on these deaths.

 

Dismissing them out of hand will only cause even more hesitancy in getting vaccinated.

 

 

agree with you, unfortunately the words you use can not and should not be used when speaking about  Thailand, not a good mix   555

[Artisi]

10 hours ago, sirineou said:

I don't know why they report these things ? It only serves to fuel peoples fears. If a large percentage of the populations vaccinated, it is inevitable that some of them will die in the following days. People have been ding since Adam and Eve. LOL

If there is any credible evidence, by all means please report it. but "Widow thinks husband’s death may be linked to AZ vaccine ." is ridiculous and irresponsible reporting 

But it generates traffic and clicks, it's called marketing and <deleted> - all to do with responsible reporting. 

[Kwasaki]

10 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

family has doubt that he died of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (the thickening of the wall of the heart, blocking blood flow of blood out of the heart) as claimed by doctors at Wachira Phuket Hospital.

Sad yeah but do the family know more than the doctors.

[Artisi]

6 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

We shouldn't be too quick to judge her, or the reporters, we may end up with egg on your faces, she may be a forensic pathologist!

And she might also be looking for a nice little package to sooth the hurt.