AstraZeneca says Thailand only requested 3 million doses per month in initial agreement

[JamieM]

2 minutes ago, Khun Yogi said:

If you want to do any "real" business in Thailand ie company to company, domestic or overseas, you have to pay for goods before they are shipped, so if they order vaccines l can see why companies would want payment before shipment.

I agree with you that's why it was a silly statement.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, JamieM said:

You say "foreign manufacturers" in your post, can you tell me what you mean by foreign? As far as I'm aware Thailand doesn't have a domestic vaccine. Can you explain to me which domestic vaccine (that doesn't require advanced payment) you are talking about? as no domestic vaccine exists. 

 

 

Are you playing silly word games here? The AZ vaccine is now being manufactured in Thailand.

[gk10012001]

11 minutes ago, Khun Yogi said:

If you want to do any "real" business in Thailand ie company to company, domestic or overseas, you have to pay for goods before they are shipped, so if they order vaccines l can see why companies would want payment before shipment.

yes.  This is what JamieM doesn't seem to want to let go of.  He seems to want to attack and attack.  Sad really.  Hope the future gets better or Thailand won't get my retirement dollars which I always planned to go there and give to them.  I been 15 times since 2004 and now, that I have punched out, well.. not heading to Thailand for now

[gk10012001]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Are you playing silly word games here? The AZ vaccine is now being manufactured in Thailand.

Yes, that is another part that JamieM does not seem to want to grasp or understand or know about.  That is why I used the words Foreign manufacturers.. But some people just don't read with comprehension or they have some agenda they try to squeeze into things, whether they fit or not.

 

Thank you

[newnative]

And wasn't the letter a lovely, refreshing, embarrassing, sharp slap in the face to the government.

[Neeranam]

They ordered too many, 

Lots of negative bashers in this thread. 

[metisdead]

A post with a screenshot of content copied from some site without a supporting link has been removed.

 

 

[exterminator]

3 hours ago, sezze said:

I think if you look around across the world , then the countries who did made the gamble were European , USA , Middle Eastern . Non of the Asian countries did anything , even Australia and Japan , Singapore are nowhere in vaccinating their citizens . Best places to be right now are the highest vaccinated countries and non of that is in East Asia , Africa and S America .

You're not very correct. Read these:

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2021/02/01/how-singapore-picked-its-covid-19-vaccines

https://ceoworld.biz/2020/06/22/worlds-safest-countries-in-the-covid-19-era-survey-2020/

 

[DirtyHarry55]

Latest news is now they plan to block exports to neighboring countries who ordered.
I expected that from the start but it won't make em popular but doubt they care.

[mfd101]

22 minutes ago, newnative said:

And wasn't the letter a lovely, refreshing, embarrassing, sharp slap in the face to the government.

Yes, and so beautifully worded, full of praise for His Excellency the Minister.

 

Second rule of bureaucracy: When sliding the stiletto in, do it with grace and elegance.

[tingtong]

The truth comes out in the end.

Wonder why took this long to find the original purchase agreements and conditions.

[BobinBKK]

It makes me laugh how these government officials are getting caught in lies. Last week I read about Pfizer denying any talks with Thailand and now AstraZeneca...  5555555

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

A leaked document from AstraZeneca to the Thai government reveals that the Thai Ministry of Public Health only requested 3 million doses per month in an agreement with the vaccine manufacturer last September

Ohh my... the truth will out.

[J Town]

2 hours ago, JamieM said:

I take it that you are unable to clarify the nonsensical post you just made then?

 

ALL the vaccines in use are foreign in Thailand.

 

No, Thailand manufactures a small amount.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/thailand-debuts-locally-made-astrazeneca-supplies-are-tight

[worgeordie]

They must have put in an order for the HiSo's, Government officials,

and their ilk, the rest of the population can get the very good Chinese

Krap.......

regards Worgeordie

[ChrisY1]

4 hours ago, sezze said:

I think if you look around across the world , then the countries who did made the gamble were European , USA , Middle Eastern . Non of the Asian countries did anything , even Australia and Japan , Singapore are nowhere in vaccinating their citizens . Best places to be right now are the highest vaccinated countries and non of that is in East Asia , Africa and S America .

Singapore has 72% with 1 dose and 47% fully vaccinated

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, sezze said:

I think if you look around across the world , then the countries who did made the gamble were European , USA , Middle Eastern . Non of the Asian countries did anything , even Australia and Japan , Singapore are nowhere in vaccinating their citizens . Best places to be right now are the highest vaccinated countries and non of that is in East Asia , Africa and S America .

Actually, Singapore should not be included in your list.

[mtls2005]

4 minutes ago, ChrisY1 said:

Singapore has 72% with 1 dose and 47% fully vaccinated

 

Thanks for this. 

 

Facts are often inconvenient for some.

[Searat7]

But they just confirmed order for 2 submarines….no sense of priority at all. If Anutin lasts the week I will be surprised 

[sanuk711]

 

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

Maybe they were simply waiting for better prices?

European Union members will pay $2.16 (€1.78) for AstraZeneca’s shots, according to information leaked by a Belgian minister on Twitter.
AstraZeneca France told AFP in November that its shots would be capped at €2.50 (around $3) per dose “to provide vaccines to the widest population, with as fair access as possible”

 

The full Article is about South Africa-- who is paying double this amount--because it refused to place any orders or to contribute to the research fund-- If Thailand was in the same position---it would still be only $us6 190Bht per dose. If they had let the private sector take over even at a 100% profit

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/south-africa-paying-more-than-double-eu-price-for-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine

 

[TimBKK]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

If you want a more complete picture, you have to read both letters.  The one from AZ to Anutin and the response back from Anutin.

 

They're both marked "confidential" so I won't be providing a link on account of Thailand's computer crime laws.  But you can find them on Jonathan Head's Twitter, and other places.  Nor am I going to summarize or comment on either one. 

 

Just letting people know they're both worth a read.

 

Summary:

 

[Dogmatix]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

This means they only ever planned on vaccinating 18 million people with the AZ vaccine in the first year, either that or they planned on hijacking the rest of it from the beginning.

 

AZ aren't stupid, there will be a very solid plan in place which prevents them from doing so.

13 million, not 18 million.  They only ordered 26 million from AZ Thailand.   Add a few bits and bobs ordered from AZ Europe and Sinovac at the outset.

[MrJ2U]

Idiots in charge.

 

Of course Astra Zeneca is going to have some good lawyers after the UK debacles.

 

There trying to blame Astra Zeneca.

 

The government has already paid upfront 600 million baht to the local Manufacturer.  Its to be paid (no interest) back in vaccines.

 

So wrong.

 

 

 

[Dogmatix]

6 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

They were probably relying back then heavily on the Chinese PlaceboVac from Sinovac and Sinopharm. 

It is hard to know what the throught processes were. It was public knowledge when the local AZ production was announced that Thailand had only ordered 26 million out off 200 millioin expected annual capacity and there was widespread criticism by Thais of the small order.  The SBS project was supported with a loan of taxpayers' money to build the factory and a lot of lip service but there was no meaningful support in terms of an offtake agreement for meaningful quantities relative to the size of the Thai population which meant that AZ had to pre-sell more aggressively to other Asia countries to ensure the viability for SBS. Could it be that the government wasn't that happy that Siam Cement came up with this project as they were hoping to rely on Sinovac at 3 times the price?  But clever Siam Cement came up with a project they couldn't refuse. Just wondering because not much about it makes sense.

[crazykopite]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

Predicting future is a job reserved for prophets and no country is prepare for the worse not even the super powers. so a shortsighted policy? yes, ordering 10's on millions of vaccinations on a guess, i'd too be hesitant...

The U.K. managed to order millions well before anyone else was even considering it that’s why more than 50% of the population have had both jabs had it been the Labour Party in power we would be in a position like the Thai government have found themselves in which is few vaccines for the 70 million population

[3NUMBAS]

enough for the yellow shirts ,red shirts no chance

[Dogmatix]

38 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Idiots in charge.

 

Of course Astra Zeneca is going to have some good lawyers after the UK debacles.

 

There trying to blame Astra Zeneca.

 

The government has already paid upfront 600 million baht to the local Manufacturer.  Its to be paid (no interest) back in vaccines.

 

So wrong.

 555.  Yes they must have a huge legal task force by now.  In the EU case they are arguing that provision of vaccines to the EU was only on a "best efforts" basis given the uncertainty of new vaccine production.  I think they will end up settling a large amount with the EU. The latest debacle will get them sued by their Asian customers outside Thailand and they will declare force majeure because the Thai government will issue an emergency ministerial regulation allowing it to restrict exports of vaccine.  

 

The risk for Thailand is that by using its sovereign power to bully AZ and rob its neighbours of vaccines, AZ may be able to increase capacity in Japan or elsewhere and divert some of the inputs from Thailand to there and make up the orders to the other Asian countries from somewhere else.  The inputs are in short supply, so they can easily argue that they were supplying SBS on a "best efforts" and doing their best to allocate inputs amongst all licensees. Then it would be up to SBS to try to sue AZ. From a lawyers' perspective the risk of a law suit from a small Thai government would be better than the risk of law suits by a number of Asian governments.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Dogmatix

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

From what I read recently, the foreign manufacturers were demanding payment in advance.  Of course the Thai agencies don't like that because there is no guarantee that when they receive the vaccines, that they can then use them, sell, them, get money from people,  etc..

Maybe there was a lack of trust due to the Thai way of doing business ?

   Like, ignoring contracts and not giving what was promised 

[DefaultName]

Here's a "what if".

What if AZ says; "this isn't ethical and we won't do it", shuts up shop and locks the doors?

[ArcticFox]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

A leaked document from AstraZeneca to the Thai government reveals that the Thai Ministry of Public Health only requested 3 million doses per month in an agreement with the vaccine manufacturer last September.

In a time where we are collectively told that the opaque Thai government can't share details of vaccine procurements due to contractual agreements in order to keep the public in the dark, this has got to be one of the smartest things that AstraZenaca could have done - leak a letter with full disclosure of all details contracts and vaccine distribution to Thailand and all other ASEAN nations. 
This puts Thailand on notice that AZ has a contractual agreement with Thailand that AZ has exceeded, and it puts every other ASEAN country that has a contract with AZ on notice that AZ fully plans to meet their contractual agreements with these countries.
Now if Thailand decides to just "take" the vaccines allocated to Brunei, Indoesia, Malaysia, Maldives, The Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam - look out.
The vaccine issue would fall pretty much at the bottom of Maslow's Needs Heirarchy - physiological and safety needs - the most basic needs.  The needs people fight and die to meet.  Survival needs!

Wars have started over less.