Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[Danderman123]

25 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Ok..so if it's 'an incomplete truth' can you please tell me the rest of it to compete it then?  

 

 

Vaccinated individuals are up to 10 times less likely to be infected than the unvaccinated.

 

You are lying by omission and creating the impression that vaccines are not effective. Since people are deciding now whether to vaccinate, misinformation is not helpful.

[cdemundo]

2 hours ago, tifino said:

never having described oursleves as antivax

- we are quite happy to sit it out and await Novavax  

 

 

What has happened to Novavax?

I thought it was ready to deliver in August.

Now still waiting.

[cdemundo]

5 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

What has happened to Novavax?

I thought it was ready to deliver in August.

Now still waiting.

Did a little searching:

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/19/novavax-vaccine-rush-process-global-campaign-516298

 

"The U.S. government invested $1.6 billion in Novavax in 2020 — the most it devoted to any vaccine maker at the time — in hopes that it would offer the world another option for a safe and effective vaccine to help protect against Covid-19. But the company has consistently run into production problems. The methods it used to test the purity of the vaccine have fallen short of regulators’ standards and the company has not been able to prove that it can produce a shot that is consistently up to snuff, according to multiple people familiar with Novavax’s difficulties. All spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive company conversations."

[jak2002003]

23 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Vaccinated individuals are up to 10 times less likely to be infected than the unvaccinated.

 

You are lying by omission and creating the impression that vaccines are not effective. Since people are deciding now whether to vaccinate, misinformation is not helpful.

Sorry that you don't want to hear facts and truth and want to hide it.

 

I said in my post vaccinated people are far less likely to catch covid. 

 

But they still can and still spread it...just 10 times less likely.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

Ok..so if it's 'an incomplete truth' can you please tell me the rest of it to compete it then?  

 

 

Did you miss the bit ‘as has been explained many times’?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and how long have they had to train people to deal with covid patients?

One of the reasons that there is a shortage is that most people don't want to be nurses, because it's unpleasant work, unappreciated, full of bullies and under paid, which is why before corona nurses from places like the Philippines were in such demand.

However, it only takes a month to train people to a basic level of health care to work under supervision of a qualified nurse. That's how long it took my class of nurses before we were sent to the wards to work.

A whole month you say, I would never have guessed.

 

It takes a few minutes to administer safe and effective vaccines, the supply chain is running smoothly, vaccines are available and one nurse can administer hundreds in a day.

 

The savings in medical costs, hospital beds and hospital resources are so significant and yet ignored by you who so often argues on the basis of cost.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, cdemundo said:

What has happened to Novavax?

I thought it was ready to deliver in August.

Now still waiting.

This is what has happened to Novavax...

Novavax stock tanks on report of COVID-19 vaccine manufacturing troubles
Novavax has reportedly been unable to produce a COVID-19 vaccine that meets the FDA's purity standards

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/novavax-stock-tanks-covid-19-vaccine-manufacturing-troubles

[placnx]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So you are basically saying rich ( western ) countries are expected to pay for poor countries, and I did say western taxpayers are not going to be happy about that, especially when western businesses are in crisis from lockdowns and inflation is starting to bite.

Think of it this way: The taxpayers will save a lot of money if there are no new Deltas, and the way there is to get people vaccinated in poorer countries. The supply chain disruption is still having serious consequences even for countries with high rates of vaccination. What happens with factories shutting down in Malaysia affects business in the US and Europe.

[placnx]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I disagree, but if it were true under normal conditions, I can't imagine they'd put someone with a DNR order into an ICU if the hospital is full of covid patients.

Big hospitals have several ICUs for various conditions, plus pediatric. You are talking about triage. That could be happening in certain US states with low vaccination rates.

[placnx]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and how long have they had to train people to deal with covid patients?

One of the reasons that there is a shortage is that most people don't want to be nurses, because it's unpleasant work, unappreciated, full of bullies and under paid, which is why before corona nurses from places like the Philippines were in such demand.

However, it only takes a month to train people to a basic level of health care to work under supervision of a qualified nurse. That's how long it took my class of nurses before we were sent to the wards to work.

Another reason for staff shortage is burnout - working long hours caring for dreadful Covid cases

[placnx]

5 hours ago, cdemundo said:

What has happened to Novavax?

I thought it was ready to deliver in August.

Now still waiting.

Run into some quality issues

[Danderman123]

8 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Sorry that you don't want to hear facts and truth and want to hide it.

 

I said in my post vaccinated people are far less likely to catch covid. 

 

But they still can and still spread it...just 10 times less likely.

 

 

Here’s what you originally posted:

 

On 10/20/2021 at 8:42 PM, jak2002003 said:

Sounds like you are unaware vaccinated people can infect vaccinated people too. 

 

Chances are lower and if you are vaccinated the chances of being very ill and needing to go to hospital are virtually zero. 

 

You probably have more chance or getting hit by a car.....so why not tell everyone who drives they are idiots as they might run someone over?

 

 

you left out the 10 times less likely part n your original post.

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Here’s what you originally posted:

 

you left out the 10 times less likely part n your original post.

Please just stop. You missed out the next paragraph when I said they are far less likely to get hospitalised or spread the virus.

 

I don't know what you are arguing about. 

 

There are only so many times I can repeat myself.  Let's just leave it there please.

[Airalee]

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Unfortunately people have been denied treatment and have died as a direct result of hospitals being full of people who have refused COVID Vaccination:

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/houston-afghanistan-veteran-dies-treatable-illness-wait-icu-bed

Do your research before posting misinformation.

 

The guy lived in a town of 4,000 people and the local medical center has 10 beds and isn’t even equipped with an ICU.

 

Also, from your linked article…

 

"A lot of the ICU shortage is not [about] the short of beds. It’s the shortage of personnel to man those beds,"

 

 

Perhaps they should stop firing health care workers who refuse to get vaccinated.  

 

 

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Do your research before posting misinformation.

 

The guy lived in a town of 4,000 people and the local medical center has 10 beds and isn’t even equipped with an ICU.

 

Also, from your linked article…

 

"A lot of the ICU shortage is not [about] the short of beds. It’s the shortage of personnel to man those beds,"

 

 

Perhaps they should stop firing health care workers who refuse to get vaccinated.  

 

 

Did you read this part of the article?

The doctors and nurses, Puget said, "called all the hospitals in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas and Colorado and couldn’t get him a bed." 

"Every minute that he was refused an ICU bed he was dying. The doctors said that his organs were already starting to shut down," Puget said. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/houston-afghanistan-veteran-dies-treatable-illness-wait-icu-bed

 

And definitely an excellent idea to have unvaccinated staff in  hospitals that have ill and immunocompromised people currently not afflicted with covid.

[Danderman123]

19 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Do your research before posting misinformation.

 

The guy lived in a town of 4,000 people and the local medical center has 10 beds and isn’t even equipped with an ICU.

 

 

 

Wrong. From your article:

 

"The doctors and nurses, Puget said, "called all the hospitals in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas and Colorado and couldn’t get him a bed." "

 

Covid Deniers and anti-Vaxxers caused the hospitals in and around Texas to be swamped. Please don't assist them by providing misinformation. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Danderman123

[Danderman123]

44 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Please just stop. You missed out the next paragraph when I said they are far less likely to get hospitalised or spread the virus.

 

I don't know what you are arguing about. 

 

There are only so many times I can repeat myself.  Let's just leave it there please.

I am happy you agree that the vaccinated are up to 10 times less likely to be infected, and thus 10 times less likely to infect others. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Danderman123

[Credo]

18 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Do your research before posting misinformation.

 

The guy lived in a town of 4,000 people and the local medical center has 10 beds and isn’t even equipped with an ICU.

 

Also, from your linked article…

 

"A lot of the ICU shortage is not [about] the short of beds. It’s the shortage of personnel to man those beds,"

 

 

Perhaps they should stop firing health care workers who refuse to get vaccinated.  

 

 

Oh, so your commentary is only about the hospital?  Do you think if there were significant fewer covid cases that this would have happened?   Oh, and this is what the article says.   
 

Because of the surge of the delta variant of COVID-19, hospitals have been overwhelmed with patients and there were no ICU beds available for Wilkinson. 

 

But if you don't like that example then try this one of a guy who was refused a bed at 43 hospitals.  Oh, and no staff were being fired when this happened because there were NO vaccine mandates, so try not to deflect:

Alabama man dies after being turned away from 43 hospitals as covid packs ICUs, family says

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/12/alabama-ray-demonia-hospitals-icu/

 

[Danderman123]

This discussion is similar to the old issue of condoms, there were anti-condom types who pointed to the rare cases of condom failure as proof that condoms didn't work to stop STDs. 

 

Or the seat belt debate, where the rare cases of seat belt failure resulting in injury were used to prove that selt belts didn't work. 

[Airalee]

33 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Did you read this part of the article?

The doctors and nurses, Puget said, "called all the hospitals in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas and Colorado and couldn’t get him a bed." 

"Every minute that he was refused an ICU bed he was dying. The doctors said that his organs were already starting to shut down," Puget said. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/houston-afghanistan-veteran-dies-treatable-illness-wait-icu-bed

 

And definitely an excellent idea to have unvaccinated staff in  hospitals that have ill and immunocompromised people currently not afflicted with covid.

The lies of hospital ICUs being overwhelmed have already been debunked with one Oklahoma hospital issuing a statement calling out a doctor who lied about it.  
 

Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage for our emergency room. With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not treated any patients due to complications related to taking ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin overdose. All patients who have visited our emergency room have received medical attention as appropriate. Our hospital has not had to turn away any patients seeking emergency care. We want to reassure our community that our staff is working hard to provide quality healthcare to all patients. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s support.

https://cbs4indy.com/news/injured-victims-left-waiting-as-oklahoma-hospitals-packed-with-dewormer-overdoses-doctor-says/

 

Sad that you believe all the disinformation and fear mongering out there.  So disappointed.

[EVENKEEL]

49 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Did you read this part of the article?

The doctors and nurses, Puget said, "called all the hospitals in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas and Colorado and couldn’t get him a bed." 

"Every minute that he was refused an ICU bed he was dying. The doctors said that his organs were already starting to shut down," Puget said. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/houston-afghanistan-veteran-dies-treatable-illness-wait-icu-bed

 

And definitely an excellent idea to have unvaccinated staff in  hospitals that have ill and immunocompromised people currently not afflicted with covid.

We all know Fox is fake news and shouldn't be referenced.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Airalee said:

The lies of hospital ICUs being overwhelmed have already been debunked with one Oklahoma hospital issuing a statement calling out a doctor who lied about it.  
 

Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage for our emergency room. With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not treated any patients due to complications related to taking ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin overdose. All patients who have visited our emergency room have received medical attention as appropriate. Our hospital has not had to turn away any patients seeking emergency care. We want to reassure our community that our staff is working hard to provide quality healthcare to all patients. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s support.

https://cbs4indy.com/news/injured-victims-left-waiting-as-oklahoma-hospitals-packed-with-dewormer-overdoses-doctor-says/

 

Sad that you believe all the disinformation and fear mongering out there.  So disappointed.

Did you bother to look up what kind of hospital NHS Sequoyah is? If you had looked it up, you would know that it has a total of 41 beds and is definitely not a full service hospital. It's a small  local community hospital specializing in family medicine and emergency medicine.

https://www.vitals.com/hospital/3kkmgz/sequoyah-memorial-hospital-sallisaw

https://www.healthgrades.com/group-directory/ok-oklahoma/sallisaw/sequoyah-memorial-hospital-oo3y63g

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

We all know Fox is fake news and shouldn't be referenced.

What we do know is that Fox News has a bias towards minimizing the harms caused by Covid-19. So, if anything, if they were reporting on this back in August, that makes it more likely to be true.

[placeholder]

31 minutes ago, Airalee said:

The lies of hospital ICUs being overwhelmed have already been debunked with one Oklahoma hospital issuing a statement calling out a doctor who lied about it.  
 

Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage for our emergency room. With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not treated any patients due to complications related to taking ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin overdose. All patients who have visited our emergency room have received medical attention as appropriate. Our hospital has not had to turn away any patients seeking emergency care. We want to reassure our community that our staff is working hard to provide quality healthcare to all patients. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s support.

https://cbs4indy.com/news/injured-victims-left-waiting-as-oklahoma-hospitals-packed-with-dewormer-overdoses-doctor-says/

 

Sad that you believe all the disinformation and fear mongering out there.  So disappointed.

Here are some past links about ICU's being full up or being reduced to triage conditions. I guess the governors and administrators' in these Republican states were lying?

https://www.foxnews.com/health/arkansas-runs-out-intensive-care-beds-covid-patients-critical

https://www.fox9.com/news/alabama-runs-out-of-icu-beds-as-southern-states-slammed-with-covid-19-cases

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/09/21/idaho-hospitals-covid-surge

[Airalee]

46 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Here are some past links about ICU's being full up or being reduced to triage conditions. I guess the governors and administrators' in these Republican states were lying?

https://www.foxnews.com/health/arkansas-runs-out-intensive-care-beds-covid-patients-critical

https://www.fox9.com/news/alabama-runs-out-of-icu-beds-as-southern-states-slammed-with-covid-19-cases

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/09/21/idaho-hospitals-covid-surge

And here’s a link that talks about an empty ICU ward.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-hospitals-empty-covid/2021/07/02/cce9d414-d9bc-11eb-bb9e-70fda8c37057_story.html

 

Believe what you will.

[Credo]

6 minutes ago, Airalee said:

And here’s a link that talks about an empty ICU ward.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-hospitals-empty-covid/2021/07/02/cce9d414-d9bc-11eb-bb9e-70fda8c37057_story.html

 

Believe what you will.

Of course, if vaccination rates are high enough, we will see most ICU's empty.   The areas with full and overcapacity ICU's are in areas with low vaccination rates and poor mitigation.   

[placeholder]

18 minutes ago, Airalee said:

And here’s a link that talks about an empty ICU ward.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-hospitals-empty-covid/2021/07/02/cce9d414-d9bc-11eb-bb9e-70fda8c37057_story.html

 

Believe what you will.

Actually it's not about an empty generic icu ward, is it?  it's about an empty covid ward, presumably ICU..  It says nothing about other ICU wards.

And it's a truly ridiculous post. We know that at  different times where covid was surging in different places.. It wasn't surging everywhere at once. So not surprising that in some parts of the country covid wards could be empty.

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

The lies of hospital ICUs being overwhelmed have already been debunked with one Oklahoma hospital issuing a statement calling out a doctor who lied about it.  
 

Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage for our emergency room. With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not treated any patients due to complications related to taking ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin overdose. All patients who have visited our emergency room have received medical attention as appropriate. Our hospital has not had to turn away any patients seeking emergency care. We want to reassure our community that our staff is working hard to provide quality healthcare to all patients. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s support.

https://cbs4indy.com/news/injured-victims-left-waiting-as-oklahoma-hospitals-packed-with-dewormer-overdoses-doctor-says/

 

Sad that you believe all the disinformation and fear mongering out there.  So disappointed.

You seem confused.

 

The doctor’s report claimed that a specific hospital was overwhelmed due to Ivermectin victims. The hospital’s denial was specific about Ivermectin poisoning not filling it’s ICUs.

 

But the discussion now isn’t about Ivermectin poisoning filling ICUs, it’s about Covid patients filling hospitals. Do you have any comments about that?

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

And here’s a link that talks about an empty ICU ward.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-hospitals-empty-covid/2021/07/02/cce9d414-d9bc-11eb-bb9e-70fda8c37057_story.html

 

Believe what you will.

Do you actually believe that some hospitals in states like Oklahoma were not at capacity during the last Covid surge? It’s an easily checked issue. 

[Danderman123]

I got my Moderna booster shot today!