atpeace Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: No, tge NU Times is reporting the data Florida has (after cooking) reported. You’ve just exposes your failure to grasp the rest of us understand what constitutes a ‘primary source’. .... LoL. Really? So the only reliable data sources are the ones that align with your believes. You even take it further in that if a reliable data source you use presents data that doesn't jive with your believes then It is because the source was given bad data. A discussion with your type is infantile and goes nowhere. Most individuals that are not blinded by their beliefs would come to the conclusion that Florida is doing quite well at the moment and considering they have one of the highest per capita death rates, this is a good thing. You will gain credibility with your herd but aren't you trying to convince other to get vaccinated? Keep patting each other on the back since that has worked so well during this crisis. Alternatively get the nerve to be wrong and move through it with grace. Edited October 31, 2021 by atpeace 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atpeace Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: DeSantis is cooking the data. This widely reported piece of information is yet another one of your ‘omissions’. https://m.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/florida-gov-ron-desantis-is-cooking-the-books-on-our-covid-numbers/Content?oid=29913288 https://www.newsweek.com/florida-covid-19-data-lawsuit-carlos-guillermo-smith-deaths-cases-delta-variant-1624859 Read the first link before posting and be responsible next time. The policy change by Florida discussed in the article was implemented on August 10 and the article was written first week of September. What would need to have happened as clearly stated in the article for the policy change to have caused the decline in deaths? Hint- what happened to deaths weeks after and now months after the article was published. Just news with no substance and yes both sides do it, granted the antivax crowd is much more partial to deluding themselves but ... Edited October 31, 2021 by atpeace 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffr2 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 10 hours ago, atpeace said: Yes, I'm talking about myself. Feel better? Now go work on acquiring a sense of humor. You are so worked up that you can't leave this forum for an hour because you might miss a Covid thread. Calm down and the world will be fine without you causing others to fight being sensible and getting vaccinated. The problem isn't fake news as you continually post but people like yourself that get online and feel power they don't have off line. How many individuals are not getting vaccinated because of people like yourself. I'll answer - many. The best thing you could do would be to take some anxiety meds and stay away from corresponding about Covid. Wow. Totally off base. But a nice rant. 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 58 minutes ago, atpeace said: Really? So the only reliable data sources are the ones that align with your believes. You even take it further in that if a reliable data source you use presents data that doesn't jive with your believes then It is because the source was given bad data. A discussion with your type is infantile and goes nowhere. Most individuals that are not blinded by their beliefs would come to the conclusion that Florida is doing quite well at the moment and considering they have one of the highest per capita death rates, this is a good thing. You will gain credibility with your herd but aren't you trying to convince other to get vaccinated? Keep patting each other on the back since that has worked so well during this crisis. Alternatively get the nerve to be wrong and move through it with grace. I pontes out you didn’t understand primary sources, there was absolutely no reason for you to punctuate the pint. But you did anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atpeace Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 7 hours ago, robblok said: Sorry, but some harsh words on the internet VS destroying someone ones income is a different thing. What i was saying is that the antivaxers a minority are in general far more extreme then the pro vax people. If you look at data you will see that the antivaxers are not a huge group yet they seem to be as vocal as pro vac. So that means per person they make a lot more sound and are far more busy with spreading their information then us pro vaccination people. This truth thing, is also strange with antivaxers. The problem is that people who are pro vax have regular science to back us up. While the antivaxers seem to use lies and falsehoods. I mean how can anyone still say that vaccines are experimental after billions of shots. Also if you compare deaths from covid with the deaths from vaccination its again clear that vaccination is the right way to go. And popularity has nothing to do with truth, however if 95% or 99% of scientists say that vaccination is great and we should do it. That is not popularity its scientific consensus and often means truth. The antivaxers like to make out as if the numbers of pro vaccination scientists and so on don't count. They seem to think the few that support them are somehow smarter then the group that is many times bigger. In this case its just clear that having more support (among scientists) means that the truth is likely that antivaxers are wrong. I am no scientist but I am someone with a high IQ and logical mindset trained for analyzing stuff (im an accountant tax advisor). Unlike many of the antivaxers I with my logical mind (and thankfully the majority of people) have decided that we trust scientists, and that we trust that if world wide so many scientist look at stuff and they almost all say vaccination is good we trust them. We understand that conspiracies only work if there are few people involved. We also understand that no goverment in the world would want to destroy their economy and alienate their voters. So if governments to do stuff like lockdowns and say vaccinations are good they do so because its proven and they have to. Not because of some secret plot to reset the earth and support big pharma. I mean those are the things some antivaxers think and they assume that governments who cant even agree on measure for climate change would agree and keep secret something like this. So at some point the rational people among us get bored with antivaxers especially because their actions results in new rules and lockdowns (like in my country now). So respect fades especially because there is not logic to their claims. I have the utmost respect for people who can come up with a view that is different from mine but back it up with good arguments. But once science is disregarded i cant debate. Same reason I cant debate with religious people we just cant as they wont accept science. So at some point people realize that debating wont work so we get frustrated and angry. Its just really frustrating when people ignore science and go for fake news and even when you point it out they wont listen. Its like flat earthers (but they are harmless) you give them all the proof you want but they still dont believe you. Now because its not important you ignore them, but its the same with covid one side has science and a majority of people agreeing with you and the other side has nothing but will not change their mind no matter what evidence you show them. Agree with almost all you articulated with the exception of the loudest tribe. IMO the anti vax tribe is barely able to raise a point above the vaxers rage and condemnation. Hell, even if you are proponent of vaccination but question the vaxers on any minute detail, you will be pounced on. Might be wrong but even level headed rational people get caught up in a cause and forget to take a step back and look at what really is happening. This thread and 99% of all Covid threads are dominated by militant at time vaxers. Just look at the post count and it become blatantly obvious. We as humans don't do well with being told how to act and think. Take a logical man and tell him his opinions are stupid. Logic has its limitations and I feel anti-vaxers are now backing a cause and not capable of rationalizing in the current hate filled environment. I'm on the fence about legally requiring vaccinations but that might be the easiest solution. That solutions scares me though for obvious reasons. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffr2 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 9 hours ago, atpeace said: Compare your post that is done with tact with the other members posts. You are upset with antivax extremist bullies. So am I but also am not thrilled with those that think almost all people not vaccinated are idiots. It is the internet of tribes and win at all cost. Some empathy and effort put into understanding others viewpoints is powerful. Somehow many on the internet think tribal popularity is identical to the "truth". They have no interest in anything noble but are infatuated with increasing their status within their tribe and put no effort in searching for truth. But what we're talking about is the truth. Most anti vaxxers here post misinformation. Or indifference. I want normal to return. The only way for that to happen is vaccines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 33 minutes ago, atpeace said: Read the first link before posting and be responsible next time. The policy change by Florida discussed in the article was implemented on August 10 and the article was written first week of September. What would need to have happened as clearly stated in the article for the policy change to have caused the decline in deaths? Hint- what happened to deaths weeks after and now months after the article was published. Just news with no substance and yes both sides do it, granted the antivax crowd is much more partial to deluding themselves but ... OK so you accept the Florida Admiration is manipulating the data. We’re getting somewhere at last. How about the administration refusing to publish the full data set, what do you think that is about? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffr2 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 9 hours ago, farmerjo said: Today,life in a mixed household in Thailand Me-not vaxed Wife-one sinovac Son-not vaxed(12 in a fortnight) Wife's best friend comes to village from Bangkok(double vaxed) Wife treating her like a alien because even though they are both vaxed my wife would have to declare to the school contact with others from outside area and therefore son would be subject to a further two week delay in returning to school. So it seems the vaxed are all not happy with vaxed and government communication. What? Stunning that's your conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atpeace Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said: Wow. Totally off base. But a nice rant. 555 It was and I apologize. I disagree with many of your posts but for the second time mistook you for another poster. Didn't I do the same ting 2 months ago? Sorry, for the stupidity. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffr2 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 9 hours ago, ebice said: Florida's vaccination rate is above US national average. I guess you've missed my post how Florida recently changed how they report numbers. Making them better now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffr2 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: OK so you accept the Florida Admiration is manipulating the data. We’re getting somewhere at last. How about the administration refusing to publish the full data set, what do you think that is about? And not the first time they manipulated the data. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atpeace Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said: I guess you've missed my post how Florida recently changed how they report numbers. Making them better now. Jeff the policy change was August 10th. Don't want to start another fight but just saying that article has been proven to be incorrect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerjo Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said: What? Stunning that's your conclusion. It's called real life living with covid. I guess you will be flying off to get your booster then back to attack the anti boosted. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 5 hours ago, ebice said: Did /is NY times "cooking" the data too? LoL. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html In the last 7 days. Covid Deniers love to find a snapshot with contrary data, and harp on that until the data changes, and then forget about it. If Florida is the hill you want to die on, great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffr2 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 9 hours ago, atpeace said: Jeff the policy change was August 10th. Don't want to start another fight but just saying that article has been proven to be incorrect. They've been playing with their numbers since the start of the pandemic. Not to be trusted https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own "When I went to show them what the report card would say for each county, among other things, they asked me to delete the report card because it showed that no counties, pretty much, were ready for reopening," she says. "And they didn't want to draw attention to that." Jones says a superior asked her to open up the data and alter the numbers so that the state's coronavirus positivity rating would change from 18% to 10% — and the state would appear to meet its target to reopen. She says she refused to do that manipulation and others she was asked to, and she was fired on May 18. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffr2 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 8 hours ago, farmerjo said: It's called real life living with covid. I guess you will be flying off to get your booster then back to attack the anti boosted. If that's what the doctors and scientists recommend, then yes, we'll get a booster. I trust the science, not my personal opinion. And sadly, the anti vaxxers do need moderation. They post too much misinformation from too many dodgy websites. That's a proven fact. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 11 hours ago, atpeace said: Agree with almost all you articulated with the exception of the loudest tribe. IMO the anti vax tribe is barely able to raise a point above the vaxers rage and condemnation. Hell, even if you are proponent of vaccination but question the vaxers on any minute detail, you will be pounced on. Might be wrong but even level headed rational people get caught up in a cause and forget to take a step back and look at what really is happening. This thread and 99% of all Covid threads are dominated by militant at time vaxers. Just look at the post count and it become blatantly obvious. We as humans don't do well with being told how to act and think. Take a logical man and tell him his opinions are stupid. Logic has its limitations and I feel anti-vaxers are now backing a cause and not capable of rationalizing in the current hate filled environment. I'm on the fence about legally requiring vaccinations but that might be the easiest solution. That solutions scares me though for obvious reasons. You don't get it, there are many times more people who are pro vaccination then who are against it. But they are holding their own even in Thaivisa we still got them. Given that 80 percent is pro vax one would expect 8 pro messages for every 2 antivax ones. That is not the case. So antivaxxers are more militant. (else we would see the divide in amounts too on this forum) Of course vaxxers are over represented because thee are more of far more. But still not to the same ratio. So i still make my point. You don't get it anyone who does not use science is stupid, it the basic parameter for discussion Antivaxers just don't use science ore manipulate it. How can you still call a drug experimental after billions of doses have been used ? Still antivaxers use the argument. Look I will never call anyone stupid if they can take down my arguments with real science not fringe sites with lies. That is the problem. We can't debate because one side disregards science and because of that those who support science get hugely frustrated. Your turning things around. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atpeace Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 2 hours ago, robblok said: You don't get it, there are many times more people who are pro vaccination then who are against it. But they are holding their own even in Thaivisa we still got them. Given that 80 percent is pro vax one would expect 8 pro messages for every 2 antivax ones. That is not the case. So antivaxxers are more militant. (else we would see the divide in amounts too on this forum) Of course vaxxers are over represented because thee are more of far more. But still not to the same ratio. So i still make my point. You don't get it anyone who does not use science is stupid, it the basic parameter for discussion Antivaxers just don't use science ore manipulate it. How can you still call a drug experimental after billions of doses have been used ? Still antivaxers use the argument. Look I will never call anyone stupid if they can take down my arguments with real science not fringe sites with lies. That is the problem. We can't debate because one side disregards science and because of that those who support science get hugely frustrated. Your turning things around. Cool, done debating ???? I will say this, your post is full of arrogance and foolish logic. That I do get. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony125 Posted November 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 1, 2021 Major study finds that people who believe in COVID-19 conspiracies are more likely to catch the virus, lose their jobs, and be socially isolated https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/major-study-finds-that-people-who-believe-in-covid-19-conspiracies-are-more-likely-to-catch-the-virus-lose-their-jobs-and-be-socially-isolated/ar-AAQa256 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jeffr2 Posted November 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 1, 2021 7 hours ago, atpeace said: An anecdotal article with one persons claim that has a vested interest to make the claim isn't verifiable evidence. What does the data tell you now. Not claims made four months ago or articles that make claims that never come to fruition. Conspiracies are OK as long as your tribe makes them. Reading an article and understanding it are not the same. Advice you put some more effort into the latter. It is blatantly obvious that vaxers on this thread only care about being liked for being caring intelligent people regardless of reality. Conspiracies are for the weak of mind 99% of the time. Deny, deflect. The lady was fired. It was over the news. 100% verifiable. It is blatantly obvious that anti vaxxers don't care about the truth. Only conspiracy theories. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Off-topic, troll, inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. The topic isn't about Florida, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/1/2021 at 1:58 AM, pgrahmm said: Thought this might be of interest from a CM expat poll.... It's not a huge sample but it's real life trending 254 for - 10 say "no way"..... Care to guess who'd probably be the loudest group? Judging from the amount of threads on the Chiang Mai sub forum I doubt that that survey is really representative of the reality. It is, after all, just a survey of the posters that read that thread and bothered to respond. A similar survey on the Pattaya sub forum would IMO be far more representative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post robblok Posted November 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 2, 2021 27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Judging from the amount of threads on the Chiang Mai sub forum I doubt that that survey is really representative of the reality. It is, after all, just a survey of the posters that read that thread and bothered to respond. A similar survey on the Pattaya sub forum would IMO be far more representative. That is what you think, the antivaxers have been the most vocal people around in every country. They are a minority but have a far larger voice then their numbers would show. They are militant idiots. You see it all over the world antivaxers ara small militant group that over represented in the media. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 16 hours ago, Tony125 said: Major study finds that people who believe in COVID-19 conspiracies are more likely to catch the virus, lose their jobs, and be socially isolated https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/major-study-finds-that-people-who-believe-in-covid-19-conspiracies-are-more-likely-to-catch-the-virus-lose-their-jobs-and-be-socially-isolated/ar-AAQa256 How can someone be socially isolated, but more likely to catch the virus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said: How can someone be socially isolated, but more likely to catch the virus? Read the article and find the answers. Less testing more rule breaking and no vaccination seem to even out the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Danderman123 said: How can someone be socially isolated, but more likely to catch the virus? Being ‘socially isolated’ has nothing to do with coming into close proximity with others. ‘Social Isolation’ is the absence of relationships, friendships, companionship and engagement with community. It’s common amongst the old, the immobile, people who are unemployed, people suffering mental illness and it’s very common amongst expats. People who are ‘socially isolated’ still go shopping, stand in queues, ride public transport and engage in any number of day to day activities that put them at risk of infection. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) Among COVID-19–like illness hospitalizations among adults aged ≥18 years whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, the adjusted odds of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection were 5.49-fold higher than the odds among fully vaccinated recipients of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine who had no previous documented infection (95% confidence interval = 2.75–10.99). In other words, if you are not vaccinated because you think you had Covid last year, better get vaccinated. If my math is right, prior infection gives you double the protection of the unvaccinated, but that isn't much. Edited November 2, 2021 by Danderman123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Multiple off topic baiting and bickering posts have been removed also replies, topic is not about Florida it is about: Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 10/30/2021 at 4:35 PM, robblok said: Thank you for conceding now that I have won ill start celebrating... ok done... Seriously so many people who were younger and not overweight have died. There is no proof that just being normal weight makes much of a difference. But we do know that vaccines make a difference. I was a bit like you, thought that being sporty and not fat would help me, until i saw reports of healthy people dying in my country. Dying of covid. Many not overweight also many not over 50. It probably reduces it a bit but i doubt it helps as much as a vaccine. Getting infected, particularly with Delta, will happen whether someone is obese or not. What is different is that the outcome is more likely fatal for obese people, young or old. However, with many more people getting infected and the Delta variant more capable of spreading in the body, more healthy young people will be hospitalised, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Danderman123 Posted November 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 2, 2021 The height of irony is an anti-Vaxxer calling for isolation of elderly or sick people, and let younger people do and go where they want. It’s the anti-Vaxxers who should be locked down. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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