So, how's China doing?

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, cmarshall said:

I have presented evidence.  You have not.

Once again, going off topic will get posts deleted .

Why don't you understand that ?

[cmarshall]

2 minutes ago, SABloke said:

They didn't fully avoid lock-downs though. They locked down the entire city of Yantai for a week while they did mass testing. However, after doing two rounds of testing, they identified a handful of infected people and then opened up again. I feel that lock-downs (Western style) don't every really work because they're not actually lock-downs. The Chinese style of lock-downs, (while seemingly excessively strict) are successful and if being locked down for two weeks can mean having the freedom to socialize and go to schools etc. (Which is what happens in China) I would go for the Chinese lock down.

This is an issue that has been well understood for a long time.  The WHO has said from the beginning of Covid that a lockdown results from a failure to apply the standard public health response to an epidemic disease early and thoroughly enough.  That happened in Wuhan/Hubei early in 2020.  The spread overwhelmed their contact tracing capability.  So, they locked down first Wuhan and then all of Hubei Province.  After 77 days the incidence of transmission had to reduced to the point that it could be within their contact tracing capability.  Thereafter, they never had to do widescale lockdowns again, only local ones.  This is 100% the best practice.  The Australians did the same in Melbourne and then all of Victoria.

 

[cmarshall]

42 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You are making a false allegation again 

Another vacuous claim with no evidence.

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Another vacuous claim with no evidence.

No evidence provided because its off topic and will get deleted

[The Cipher]

Quote

Unfortunately, the weakness of democracy is that a country can be inflicted with terrible leadership

So what you're saying is that the weakness of democracy is that it gives a ton of people who can barely run their own households a voice on how to run a country?

 

And that perhaps a consensus (or lack thereof) that includes the input of the 50% of folks who are below median by definition might not be the best way to reach optimal solutions on big problems? ????????????

[watthong]

21 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

absolutely... might save my life but would it increase the risk of my spreading it... ? 

The term of  "oxymoron" comes to mind...

[watthong]

20 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Italians designs are often manufactured in China.  I believe in the recent past lots of travel between Wuhan and Milan.  No direct evidence of any causal link but coincidence?

Here's the link: Just insert "Also by Chinese in Italy." between the 1st and 2nd sentences. Source: 'Gomorrah: Italy's Other Mafia'  by Roberto Saviano. Or you can watch the  movie.

[frantick]

Although I defended the Chinese in my prior post, I do not believe the Chinese numbers. I believe the virus escaped from their lab. I believe US money was used to support the research. I believe we shouldn't be making viruses capable of human infection for viruses that may never migrate to humans. I believe cmarshall stands for China Marshall.

[cmarshall]

Here's an opinion from that well-known Communist source, Forbes Magazine, written by former Harvard Medical School professor, William Haseltine, PhD, about the success of China's anti-Covid policies.  The article dates from January, 2021 when the Covid death toll in America was only 400,000.

 

I decry the stubborn resistance of most governments and people to acknowledge and to learn from China’s success. For most, their resistance is led by ignorance. China’s successes are not widely known and rarely covered by the US and international media. For others who are more well informed, it is willful disregard of an important public health achievement that we should all be learning from. When this negligence comes from our government representatives, it borders on dereliction of their public health duty. 

 

Yes, I do believe China's numbers, in part because of personal experience and the stories from my colleagues in China who describe their Covid-free daily lives. 

 

And no, China’s success in containing Covid-19 is not the consequence of totalitarianism. It is the consequence of a government that has learned to protect its people from pandemic tragedies. China is following a rulebook they first learned in large part at the Harvard School of Public Health following SARS. That China applied these lessons while we did not is a lasting embarrassment and tragedy for the nearly 400,000 lives lost, the one million-plus of our citizens who are scarred for life from their encounter with Covid-19, and for so many of us who have mourned the loss of family members and friends.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/01/14/why-america-should-look-to-china-to-contain-covid-19/

[Tony125]

Covid may have begun with Chinese scientist collecting bat samples, says WHO investigator

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-may-begun-chinese-scientist-180947794.html

 

 

WHO says COVID-19 origin needs more studies as top expert's lab 'concern' made public for first time

https://www.yahoo.com/news/says-covid-19-origin-needs-013748030.html

 

 

WHO Expert Says Chinese Officials Pushed Investigators to Reject Lab-Leak Theory

https://www.yahoo.com/news/expert-says-chinese-officials-pushed-190751654.html

[MrJ2U]

On 8/11/2021 at 11:16 AM, cmarshall said:

Yes, the Chinese treatment of the Uighurs is a deplorable human rights abuse.  Its relevance to the handling of the Covid epidemic, however, is zero.

 

But since you are so concerned with global human rights abuses, here's a quick quiz you will enjoy:  What is the only country to kill up to a million innocent people since Pol Pot established that standard of atrocity in Cambodia in the mid 1970's?  Hint:  it wasn't China and it wasn't Russia.

Alaska?

[frantick]

6 hours ago, cmarshall said:

Here's an opinion from that well-known Communist source, Forbes Magazine, written by former Harvard Medical School professor, William Haseltine, PhD, about the success of China's anti-Covid policies.  The article dates from January, 2021 when the Covid death toll in America was only 400,000.

 

I decry the stubborn resistance of most governments and people to acknowledge and to learn from China’s success. For most, their resistance is led by ignorance. China’s successes are not widely known and rarely covered by the US and international media. For others who are more well informed, it is willful disregard of an important public health achievement that we should all be learning from. When this negligence comes from our government representatives, it borders on dereliction of their public health duty. 

 

Yes, I do believe China's numbers, in part because of personal experience and the stories from my colleagues in China who describe their Covid-free daily lives. 

 

And no, China’s success in containing Covid-19 is not the consequence of totalitarianism. It is the consequence of a government that has learned to protect its people from pandemic tragedies. China is following a rulebook they first learned in large part at the Harvard School of Public Health following SARS. That China applied these lessons while we did not is a lasting embarrassment and tragedy for the nearly 400,000 lives lost, the one million-plus of our citizens who are scarred for life from their encounter with Covid-19, and for so many of us who have mourned the loss of family members and friends.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/01/14/why-america-should-look-to-china-to-contain-covid-19/

Forbes, a business rag.  Spewing love for the CCP as their readership businesses all are in need of the mighty Yuan.

 

Yeah, welding granny's doors shut was learned at Harvard. /s

 

[rwill]

They have been faster to lockdown areas when an outbreak occurs.  But it has been having a major impact on their shipping ports.

[Lucky dog]

" the wild strain"

Really??

[cmarshall]

5 minutes ago, rwill said:

They have been faster to lockdown areas when an outbreak occurs.  But it has been having a major impact on their shipping ports.

China's GDP did grow 7.9% in the second quarter, nevertheless.

[Almer]

On 8/11/2021 at 9:06 AM, internationalism said:

good on them. They are now testing their entire population.

Still, what is the most important is vax - now they covered only with one jab.

They have some 5 of vax. Sinovac doesn't work for delta, sinopharm failed in 25% of those over 60 to rise antibodies even to a minimum level (recent hungarian studies). The rest might also not be good.

For over a year nobody expected thailand to be in situation it is now.

 

People should have planned for the possibilities of Thailand falling to this epidemic, people should have thought of the masses not the few, people should have thought about others not them selves.

The government are not experienced and wont ask for help other than anything that is free.

We hear a lot about world economy but it is a fact if you look around Thailand is in a desperate state, this desperate state you cannot see if you don't care, Q the government.

They have proved with the vaccination fiasco in Bkk they are out of there depth and have no strategic plan other than" we will wait and see what happens" or was the famous quote "what happens will happen" a quote i believe has come home  and bit this countries people hard, and will not be forgotten in Issan for a long time.

[chilly07]

Probably doing a trial run on the next lab leak. Wuhan locked down in preparation. 

Has ASEANNOW been taken over by the CCP?

Edited August 14, 2021 by chilly07

[chilly07]

On 8/11/2021 at 9:54 AM, cmarshall said:

Reasoning from stereotypes is superficial and just silly and just reinforces your own prejudices.   Non-authoritarian Australia and New Zealand are continuing to pursue the same zero case strategy as China with success.  It's more likely to be explained by the competence of the governments in question.  

 

Is it so hard to contemplate that, at least in this case, the Chinese government are vastly more competent and more committed to saving the lives of their citizens than the US, UK, Brazil, etc.?

Yes!

[Burma Bill]

On 8/11/2021 at 5:30 AM, cmarshall said:

the Chinese government was able to avoid lockdowns and the economic hit that would have resulted.  

With respect, and for reference (August 12 2021);-

 

"Authorities in China have suspended operations at a terminal in the world's third busiest cargo port after a worker was infected with the coronavirus.

The closure .............. reflects China's determination to squash its worst coronavirus outbreak in months no matter the economic costs"

 

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/coronavirus-china-partly-closes-worlds-third-busiest-cargo-port-over-covid-19-case-2508701

[cmarshall]

49 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

With respect, and for reference (August 12 2021);-

 

"Authorities in China have suspended operations at a terminal in the world's third busiest cargo port after a worker was infected with the coronavirus.

The closure .............. reflects China's determination to squash its worst coronavirus outbreak in months no matter the economic costs"

 

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/coronavirus-china-partly-closes-worlds-third-busiest-cargo-port-over-covid-19-case-2508701

Yes, they do local, short-term lockdowns.  They haven't had to do national or province-wide lockdowns in Wuhan/Hubei in Spring of last year.  When they lockdown a city, like Nanjing, they typically then test everyone in the city over a week or two, identify the positives, open up the city again, and do contact tracing.  No Western country that I am aware of is following the Chinese protocol.  A big day of infection for China lately is 533 new cases (Aug. 5, 2021) while for the US it is 100,000.

[goldenbrwn1]

On 8/11/2021 at 3:54 AM, cmarshall said:

Reasoning from stereotypes is superficial and just silly and just reinforces your own prejudices.   Non-authoritarian Australia and New Zealand are continuing to pursue the same zero case strategy as China with success.  It's more likely to be explained by the competence of the governments in question.  

 

Is it so hard to contemplate that, at least in this case, the Chinese government are vastly more competent and more committed to saving the lives of their citizens than the US, UK, Brazil, etc.?

Apart from the whole CCP love fest before hand . You do give yourself away in this last paragraph as either a ‘white’ monkey living in China or an actual CCP internet troll.  Go China saving lives ….fcs ????

 

Oh btw not sure what you think is going on outside of Asia but here in the UK at least, we have all been double jabbed with a decent vaccine. Things are pretty much on their way back to normal.  I’m here so don’t believe the anti Boris/SNP whatever rubbish off of of MSM. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by goldenbrwn1

[cmarshall]

1 minute ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Apart from the whole CCP love fest before hand . You do give yourself away in this last paragraph as either a ‘white’ monkey living in China or an actual CCP internet troll.  Go China saving lives ….fcs ????

Thank you for your thoughtful comment and welcome to my ignore list.

[goldenbrwn1]

4 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Thank you for your thoughtful comment and welcome to my ignore list.

And there you have the swift CCP monitored response. People should try criticising the CCP on Twitter then wait wait for a DM from one. Happens a lot.

[cmarshall]

Just now, zhounan said:

They did not prohibit treatments. Very simple.

 

In the West, on the other hand, The Expert and governance èlite banned treatments and intimidated honest doctors in order to guarantee profits for the pharmaceutical companies through their experimental serum pushed as the only possible solution by a Media and Entertainment System that has been corrupted for decades by the advertising and commercial system.

 

Utter nonsense.  The Chinese did not defeat Covid by curing sick people.  They did so by preventing transmission using the standard WHO recommended public health protocols of testing very widely, isolating positives, tracing contacts, mask-wearing, and social distancing.  There is no big secret here.

[Thingamabob]

On 8/11/2021 at 9:31 AM, mfd101 said:

Thailand and many Western countries: used to individual & group self-indulgence, leads to lack of self-discipline, leads to loss of control of pandemic ...

 

Chinese authoritarianism: used to self-discipline both individually and at group levels, leads to ease of social/political control and watch out if you step out of line.

.....and enables the Chinese leadership to produce favourable statistics on every aspect of life there.

[Knocker33]

On 8/11/2021 at 10:33 AM, MrJ2U said:

"China COVID-19 cases rise as Delta variant challenges Beijing"

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/china-covid-19-new-cases-delta-variant-aug-10-2102961

 

I wouldn't gloat to much.

Good

[unblocktheplanet]

On 8/11/2021 at 10:14 AM, cmarshall said:

This is a truly impressive achievement.  If you want to console yourself that the China also has committed human rights abuses, then feel free to do so even if it is entirely irrelevant.

Thailand has no human rights & military rule but has done squat to protect citizens. Of course, in China, they can buy a hospital in a few days. This can only happen when public support doesn't really matter.

 

In fact, the public, as our concept, doesn't matter. Everybody's part of team.

 

Here, they have to repurpose stadiums into hospitals. It's a big deal to test ~20k/day.

 

Okay, I would not want to live that way. But Thailand's way is just whistling in the wind.

 

Of course, China is a first-world country & Thailand is a failed state, by any metric.

[placeholder]

 

4 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

.....and enables the Chinese leadership to produce favourable statistics on every aspect of life there.

It virtually impossible that China is lying about the extent of Covid. There are millions of foreigners living throughout China. It would be impossible to suppress their reports of the consequences of an actual pandemic situation inside of China. People let their understandable distaste for the Chinese government cloud their judgement of the state of Covid within China. Currently, the government is being very frank about the extent of covid. And it acknowledges that it hasn't yet put a stop to the latest outbreak. In fact, it may fail given that the Delta variant is far more contagious than earlier variants. And if it does, there is no way it could hide the fact of hospitals being overwhelmed. Especially given the poor state of most hospitals in China.

[Nojohndoe]

On 8/11/2021 at 10:25 AM, placeholder said:

It's not known how effective Sinovac is against the Delta variant, particularly in the case of protection against serious illness and death. Nor for that matter in the case of Sinopharm. No large scale clinical studies have been completed though some are in progress.

I would agree. The predominance of efforts to discredit entirely Sinopharm , Sinovac, SputnikV  has buried any easily obtainable or honest  evidence of even residual efficacy of these vaccine options against the current "demon" of the Delta  variant in favor of ?  Is commercialism taking wicked advantage of paranoid subscription to some quasi  holy grail?

So much derision about supplementary substances despite demonstrable albeit marginal assistance in contrast to  territorial acquisition of vaccines in excess of need, tokenist distributions of same with political overtones, proliferation of distortional social conspiracy claims or accusations ect ect ect.

A component of all of that is the prerequisite that "China" is telling lies ! Why so? Given the draconian power of the CCP  would it be to an advantage to do so in the longer term?

Covid-19 has evolved to be a significant problem disease with global distribution.

The resulting focus on social/individual reaction has been a major distraction from the  historical,new, and  current ongoing other humanitarian calamities even when those are exacerbated  by the pandemic !

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BusyB]

On 8/11/2021 at 4:54 AM, cmarshall said:

Reasoning from stereotypes is superficial and just silly and just reinforces your own prejudices.   Non-authoritarian Australia and New Zealand are continuing to pursue the same zero case strategy as China with success.  It's more likely to be explained by the competence of the governments in question.  

 

Is it so hard to contemplate that, at least in this case, the Chinese government are vastly more competent and more committed to saving the lives of their citizens than the US, UK, Brazil, etc.?

NZ and OZZ are very authoritarian when it comes to Covid ...

Having said that, most people in my decadent western plagueslum are sticking to the basics of masks, hands, space and most are vaccinating as well ...

Unfortunately there is more than a splinter of truth in what the person you were responding to said.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by BusyB