Thai Customs Rant

[Jenkins9039]

In 2018/19 I had 5 pallets of hardware (systems) coming in, they were greenlit from europe, when they arrived, the customs wanted 3mTHB to release them due to some green law where hardware (2nd) wasn't allowed into the country due to the consistent amount of electronics imported for breaking down which was damaging the environment, considering the hardware was approx 2m in value, i laughed, told them to dump it and that was the last of it, the <deleted> ended up in a landfill anyway lol.

 

Most recent experiences has been with DHL (likewise) and I've used Amazon extensively (i've gotten smarter), I pay for the goods to have customs sorted, I had a dehumidifier coming from the US for ceiling space, about 1.2k USD anyway it had "commercial" on the box (because retail normally have them on wheels opposed to fixed) and there was a palaver, they wanted import licenses etc, after a month of me not budging and not accepting responsibility as the customs was the job of Amazon (under their terms of conditions), and their claims they couldn't or wouldn't return to the US, they gave up, Amazon contacted me, arranged a full refund and apology with an additional credit, and informed me they had 'forced the customs to return it to DHL who would in return it to the company).

 

I also imported some toilets (US) for those I had a local marine shop, kindly have their agent get them released to me with a 35,000 THB fee (bribe), still worked out cheaper and less tedious than trying to order in country.

 

Some times you need to bite the bullet, and other times fight the battles you can win, but these guys are <deleted> lol, so choose your battles wisely.

[digger70]

Never us DHL Always Ask Vender to send your item Not to use DHL  

If they Try to send it with DHL Don't Buy/Pay if using COD.

[ronster]

9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"...avoid DHL like the plague. Always get crazy charges added".

Total nonsense.  DHL (and all the courier companies) are agent for the Customs Dept and collect the official duty rates and VAT plus a small admin charge that they are permitted to charge.   All charges are detailed on the delivery slip and if you are not happy with the duty rates they can be disputed with the Customs Dept.

 

"as part of it goes to customs or government as a nice earner for doing nothing"

Where else would you expect Import duty and VAT to go?   Every government charges it!

So explain how I got billed £80 tax for £120 value in clothes sent from uk ?? The rate taxable for this is something like 20% or less. I have also been shafted for wheelchair parts which are also in a very low tax bracket yet had to pay around 50% of the value in tax !!

[Sydebolle]

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

DHL charge official import duty and VAT rates for dutiable items, if you don't agree with the charge it can be disputed with Customs.   UPS and FedEx are subject to exactly the same rules as DHL, there's no difference, they all have to charge the same when import duty applies.

Agree, but ever since DHL got nicely screwed on an issue some time back, ALL shipments are being produced at customs. I had a manual with pictures and drawings sent in and the customs wanted a hefty THB 1'870 on duties only. In addition, DHL wanted handling fees and said (no English spoken) that they could deliver only two days after clearance as they were "very busy". 

The manual, brand new, in German language was not even worth that much, but I needed it urgently. I had no choide but to pay up and collect it myself - despite having paid for a First class prime courier service. 

All other manuals came in through various sources, EXCEPT DHL and guess what, not a single shipment got stucked anywhere and delivered on the day of arrival in Pattaya. All shipments had the same declaration in English on the bubblewrap packaging. 

So, yes, duty applies irrespective of content but certainly not irrespective of freight forwarder or courier service you need. For me I rather die than use DHL ever again! 

[MrJ2U]

On 9/7/2021 at 11:11 PM, Golden Triangle said:

You seem to have some experience with Thai customs, could you possibly cast your eye over this ? 

 

 

I tried to order the new Samsung Watch4 Classic (Sold Out) from  Amazon. 

 

Its classified as a "Luxury".

So its tax is much higher.

 

I'm waiting until Samsung Thailand sells them.

(Also good if there's a problem.  Warranty issues if you buy in the country where your residing).

 

Heres a breakdown:

 

(Sometimes you'll get a partial refund from Amazon that is below the duty calculated by them.)

 

 

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Not a reasonable comment.    How is "Customs out of control" when it is doing everything by the book, unlike the OP/vendor? 

 

Customs Dept is not a law unto itself, unless you can say specifically why, neither is it "lacking morality" [sic].

Customs here is well known to be one of the most corrupt of the ministries in Thailand. I have a very wealthy friend who keeps a senior customs officer on retainer. When he flies in with five or ten cases of wine, he is personally escorted right through. And do you really think the funds changed on imported goods, by the customs department, makes it all the way to the treasury? 

[seajae]

dhl are straight up thieves, I have used them a few times and the duties they charge are over what Thailand requires, they also tend to add on extra fees, the latest item I bought online  already had the thai duties included but dhl then told me I had to pay their office fees for making sure all the correct duties were paid, just happened to be virtually the same price as the item, you either pay up or they keep the item. They are the biggest rip offs around and will overcharge everything, I wil never use them again, anyone that does is asking to be ripped off

[cxxis]

Lucky you, I received my package via DHL at Wattai DHL Depot (Vientiane) and received a call to come clear customs.

Was asked to pay US$ 75 to a custom officer (no receipt) to release the package (from Italy).

Refused and said I wanted to pay the regular tax etc.

The next day a foreign friend went there to deal on my behalf as I live 700km away.

On a € 290 item plus € 120 freight they wanted over USD 200.

After my friend negotiated with the <deleted> he paid US$ 100 (no receipt) and I had to pay the <deleted> at DHL another US$ 15 for storage (3 days) with bill.

On top of this DHL did not want to deliver the package to the address on the Italian DHL printed address but told my friend to take it with him. 

[chilly07]

Had similar problem myself involving DHL. Deliberately used MasterCard in case of a problem. Complained when DHL added a miriad of additional charges and told DHL to return to sender. Eventually MasterCard removed the payment from my account but not without a miriad of e mails involving San Francisco Dusseldorf Dorset and Cincinnati. Won't make the DHL mistake again!1

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Not just dutiable items…… see my post here on Used Clothing “duty”……

[Liverpool Lou]

12 hours ago, hanuman2543 said:

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Thanks for confirming that he was wrong to say that Customs are a law unto themselves.  Whether it was him, or the vendor, it sure wasn't Customs fault.   Incidentally, why would any vendor (illegally) understate the value of the items unilaterally, i.e. without the buyers input?   That makes no sense?   

Expand  

How could he have done it himself? Travel to China and send the package himself? Don't know why the vendor did it? Maybe want to stay under the radar? In any case the OP did nothing wrong.

And I can tell you from personal experience that the Thai customs is a law to themselves ( brought my dog with me, had all paperwork and the info from the Thai Embassy was that there is nothing to pay. I had to pay 15,000 Baht under the table to get the dog out of custom.

"How could he have done it himself?"

By asking the vendor to state a false value would be one way.  By agreeing to the vendor's suggestion would be another.  No need to travel to China, for God's sake.   There's absolutely no reason for the vendor to do it without collusion from the OP.

 

The discussion is about Customs action and duty rates/VAT where all charges are laid out in detail (and can be queried) in connection with postal/couriered items with falsely declared values, nothing else.   An entirely different subject to bringing a dog here.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Not a reasonable comment.    How is "Customs out of control" when it is doing everything by the book, unlike the OP/vendor? 

 

Customs Dept is not a law unto itself, unless you can say specifically why, neither is it "lacking morality" [sic].

Expand  

Customs here is well known to be one of the most corrupt of the ministries in Thailand. I have a very wealthy friend who keeps a senior customs officer on retainer. When he flies in with five or ten cases of wine, he is personally escorted right through.

The Customs Dept in the context of the OP, his illegal indication of value and the duty rates and penalty on couriered items is the discussion here, not your corrupt "very wealthy mate who flies in with five or ten cases of wine" and his connections!  All the import duty rates applied and detailed by the couriers for the items in this thread can be challenged and arbitrated at Customs if the couriers charges are thought to be incorrect.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[thaitom]

18 hours ago, NightSky said:

I heard from a friend once that the ones moulded to resemble a male genitalia and that flash red and green in the tip are the more expensive ones..

 

I emphasize ‘friend told me’

You have a friend ?

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

So, yes, duty applies irrespective of content but certainly not irrespective of freight forwarder or courier service you need.

That's incorrect, no all imported items are rated for duty and all items that are subject to duty are chargeable, regardless of the courier company, unless duty has been prepaid.   No courier company bringing items into Thailand has an exemption from collecting chargeable import duty/VAT from the customer!

[robblok]

On 9/8/2021 at 12:01 AM, G Rex said:

Sorry Officer.      I did not ask the supplier to undervalue the item.  I have actually not done anything wrong.  Yes, I am aware that VAT & !0% Duty is chargeable.

 

Are you always this feisty ?   Or just having a bad day?

 

 Anyway , this is a forum , so we are all entitled to our opinion & to have our say.

 

 

So basically its the fault of the company you bought from. Not customs not DHL. So why don't you put the blame where it belongs ?

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, ronster said:

So explain how I got billed £80 tax for £120 value in clothes sent from uk ?? The rate taxable for this is something like 20% or less. I have also been shafted for wheelchair parts which are also in a very low tax bracket yet had to pay around 50% of the value in tax !!

I've no idea, how about posting the receipt that shows the breakdown of the charges?  Duty on clothing is 20%, calculated on the true value, not the cost, plus CIF with 7% VAT on the lot.  It will all be detailed on the receipt that your courier gave you.

 

Wheelchair parts are 20% rated also.   What was the breakdown on the couriers receipt?

 

It's odd how Thaivisa ranters on this subject can never show their receipts with the alleged false charges detailed that would back up their claims.  

Edited September 9, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[l4ml4m]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:56 PM, G Rex said:

After it arrived in Thailand DHL

i stopped reading after this. No need to know anything more, no need to help if someone still doesn't know in 2021 that NEVER a courier company should be used to deliver anything.

 

Good luck with your life, you might need it.

 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Thanks ! now possibly understand my case of GBP 200 total Customs / VAT charges on GBP 1,000 approx. (used) Clothes Value. My declared USED Clothes were simply & illegally assessed at the applicable NEW Clothes Rates …..surely Used Personal Clothing has Zero Duty / VAT ? plus they knew I would not be travelling from Phuket to Bangkok to dispute / negotiate. Lesson Well Learned; use Registered Post not Courier ……….

[bojo]

DHL make claims in the UK about the time taken for delivery to Thailand and on both occasions that I have used them in the last few years and paid the hefty premiums for the 3/4 day service, the documents have arrived way beyond 2 weeks. I could see from the tracking that one consignment was sitting in a BKK holding place for best part of a week..............................We all know there's gonna be charges here and there, that's business, but don't make claims............................................................Someone earlier posted 'DHL are straight up thieves'....................I kinda agree, as theft/false representation are not too far removed in my books when you've pretty much no chance of any recourse. I'll use the UK's post office service next time  and see where that gets me.........................

[Seismic]

On 9/8/2021 at 8:15 AM, phutoie2 said:

I was one of their airport night delivery drivers in UK. 

Known as, Documents, Handled and Lost..... 

Interesting, considering that in 40 years, I have never had an item sent by DHL lost.

[LivinLOS]

18 hours ago, placnx said:

This charging VAT on international online purchases by Thailand is new. The idea is for VAT to be billed to purchaser, then paid by the foreign selling company to Thailand. 

Been paying vat on imported items that got caught / assessed since 2001.. 

Only new thing I have noticed about about VAT is they are applying it to internet services that originate outside of Thailand. 

[ronster]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I've no idea, how about posting the receipt that shows the breakdown of the charges?  Duty on clothing is 20%, calculated on the true value, not the cost, plus CIF with 7% VAT on the lot.  It will all be detailed on the receipt that your courier gave you.

 

Wheelchair parts are 20% rated also.   What was the breakdown on the couriers receipt?

 

It's odd how Thaivisa ranters on this subject can never show their receipts with the alleged false charges detailed that would back up their claims.  

Yeah sure no problem. I will just go to the local landfill site and look it up for you , although it might have moved in 6 years !! ????????

The clothes were an Armani t-shirt and Calvin Klein underwear from house of Fraser in uk. Came to £125 and my import costs I had to pay were just under £80 ! 
Wheelchair cushion was £100 and I paid equivalent of £50 to have it handed over.

Show me a receipt from a pair of trainers you bought 6 year ago and I will bow down in awe ! 

[mokwit]

15 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Incidentally, why would any vendor (illegally) understate the value of the items unilaterally, i.e. without the buyers input?   That makes no sense?   

If you look on a certain overseas shopping website you will see statements that they will under declare as a service to buyers - they also mislabel - I ordered some Nagiri tofu coagulant from China and it was labeled as 'cosmetics powder'. Customs come down very heavily on wrongly declared dutiable items - it is what they are looking for I have been told.

 

As for your seemingly delightful experiences with Thai Customs: LUCKY OLD YOU!! Others have had different experiences. Mostly they do charge the correct duty or some semblance of it* - except when they don't, and then they are a law unto themselves as others have pointed out.

 

Things are better than they were when all you got was the paperwork from an "agent" and a very high duty cost , now at least you get the Thai Customs paperwork and pay some semblance of the correct duty.

 

We will probably see a "it's not fair rant" from you at some time in the future when you get hit by a curveball duty demand.

 

* often they use their "assessed value". This can work for you or against you.

[mokwit]

Just now, ronster said:

Came to £125 and my import costs I had to pay were just under £80 ! 

See you and raise you. GBP100 on GBP150 clothing value - duty charged as "Textiles" i.e. protective tariff level , although I would have thought that the weight of a jacket was not enough "textile" to warrant a GBP 100 charge.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 minutes ago, ronster said:

Yeah sure no problem. I will just go to the local landfill site and look it up for you , although it might have moved in 6 years !! ????????

The clothes were an Armani t-shirt and Calvin Klein underwear from house of Fraser in uk. Came to £125 and my import costs I had to pay were just under £80 ! 
Wheelchair cushion was £100 and I paid equivalent of £50 to have it handed over.

Show me a receipt from a pair of trainers you bought 6 year ago and I will bow down in awe ! 

Amazing how someone brings up an alleged example that, it turns out, happened six years ago as though it is relevant today.  Having said that, what were the CIF charges from HoF, they are added to the value for the duty/VAT charge calculation.     Bear in mind that duty/VAT is not calculated on the price you paid, it's charged on the value, there can be a difference, as the OP found out.   

 

Sorry, you wouldn't find me dead in a pair of trainers so can't show you a receipt but then I'm not complaining about alleged import charges, am I?

[hanuman2543]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"How could he have done it himself?"

By asking the vendor to state a false value would be one way.  By agreeing to the vendor's suggestion would be another.  No need to travel to China, for God's sake.   There's absolutely no reason for the vendor to do it without collusion from the OP.

 

The discussion is about Customs action and duty rates/VAT where all charges are laid out in detail (and can be queried) in connection with postal/couriered items with falsely declared values, nothing else.   An entirely different subject to bringing a dog here.

This is just pure speculation from your side.The OP stated very clear that the vendor did it and  nowhere is written that the vendor suggested it and he agreed

What about the other examples apart from importing a dog?

Only picking what fits your agenda isn't a proper discussion.

And my experience with importing a dog illustrate that Thai customs make some rules as they see fit. Have you ever been to a Thai customs office. What do you think are all the normal people doing there approaching you to help with the formalities for a fee.

I can't help myself but you sound like you  are working for TAT? 

Edited September 9, 2021 by hanuman2543

[Liverpool Lou]

18 minutes ago, mokwit said:

If you look on a certain overseas shopping website you will see statements that they will under declare as a service to buyers - they also mislabel - I ordered some Nagiri tofu coagulant from China and it was labeled as 'cosmetics powder'. Customs come down very heavily on wrongly declared dutiable items - it is what they are looking for I have been told.

 

As for your seemingly delightful experiences with Thai Customs: LUCKY OLD YOU!! Others have had different experiences. Mostly they do charge the correct duty or some semblance of it* - except when they don't, and then they are a law unto themselves as others have pointed out.

 

Things are better than they were when all you got was the paperwork from an "agent" and a very high duty cost , now at least you get the Thai Customs paperwork and pay some semblance of the correct duty.

 

We will probably see a "it's not fair rant" from you at some time in the future when you get hit by a curveball duty demand.

 

* often they use their "assessed value". This can work for you or against you.

"If you look on a certain overseas shopping website you will see statements that they will under declare as a service to buyers"

That's the buyer's lookout as that practice is illegal, that's why I do not believe that claim of yours...unless you can back it up with some evidence.   Why would a legitimate website announce illegal activities that they are happy to provide?

 

"Customs come down very heavily on wrongly declared dutiable items"

I know, that's what the thread is about.

 

"Mostly they do charge the correct duty or some semblance of it* - except when they don't, and then they are a law unto themselves as others have pointed out".

All courier companies collecting duty as agents of Thai Customs have to charge official duty rates and detail those amounts, which they all do on the delivery receipt.   They are not a law unto themselves as they have no input into the charges.   If the charges are not correct, they can be challenged and will be corrected.   

        Not one of the posters that claim the "law unto themselves" import/VAT charges for delivering online items from overseas has been able to back it up with a receipt, not one.    When one is posted here, I'll happily eat my words but I know that it won't happen.

 

"We will probably see a "it's not fair rant" from you at some time in the future when you get hit by a curveball duty demand".

You won't because, as I've said a few times, all the charges are clearly shown on the delivery receipt that no Thaivisa ranters can produce.

 

"often they use their "assessed value". This can work for you or against you".

That's the way they are supposed to do it, the price paid is often not the value.  Unfortunately, most posters don't realise that.

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That's the buyer's lookout as that practice is illegal, that's why I do not believe that claim of yours.

Ok, got it, we're all lying because our experience is different from yours. The website in question is kind of likea Lazarda with lots of different sellers having their own product page. I could back it up with evidence but you are not the kind of person I want to do that with.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, hanuman2543 said:

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"How could he have done it himself?"

By asking the vendor to state a false value would be one way.  By agreeing to the vendor's suggestion would be another.  No need to travel to China, for God's sake.   There's absolutely no reason for the vendor to do it without collusion from the OP.

 

The discussion is about Customs action and duty rates/VAT where all charges are laid out in detail (and can be queried) in connection with postal/couriered items with falsely declared values, nothing else.   An entirely different subject to bringing a dog here.

Expand  

This is just pure speculation from your side.The OP stated very clear that the vendor did it and  nowhere is written that the vendor suggested it and he agreed

What about the other examples apart from importing a dog?

Only picking what fits your agenda isn't a proper discussion.

No, it's not pure speculation, I did not say that was what did happen, I answered a question about how it could be done without the OP travelling to China.  I gave a couple of examples of how.   I asked why the vendor would illegally state a low valuation when there's absolutely no benefit to him to do so.   Perhaps you could explain why a vendor would do that?   Remember, it's illegal.

 

"What about the other examples apart from importing a dog?    Only picking what fits your agenda isn't a proper discussion".

The thread is about duty and penalties on items imported by courier companies, that's all I'm commenting on because I have no experience of any other dealings with Customs. It has nothing to do with any agenda except my agenda to comment relevantly on the OP!    Those flying off on tangents with no evidence are the ones who are turning the thread  into a "not proper discussion".

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Ok, got it, we're all lying because our experience is different from yours. The website in question is kind of likea Lazarda with lots of different sellers having their own product page. I could back it up with evidence but you are not the kind of person I want to do that with.

But why would you willingly go along with a wrong declaration and then get angry when you get caught. I mean you can instruct them to do truthful declaration too or decide not to buy from them because of the risk.

 

I mean I have done stuff like this too but I understood the risks (gave a lower value for a fishing reel) but did not get caught. But had I gotten caught then I would not moan because it was me who risked it.