New retirement visa framework approved by Cabinet

[Hal65]

New rules are 10 years stay, no 90 day reports. Attractive income tax structure and outright land ownership. Must make 40k USD/year or own $250k gov bonds or real estate.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/thailands-new-rules-for-retiree-visas-sound-alarm-bells-371948

 

Do you guys think those on the current retirement visa scheme will be grandfathered? If so, for how long?

[howerde]

i thought the idea was 4 new categories being looked at in addition to the existing retirement visas, though you do need health insurance, and elsewhere  they mention it is 80 000 a year, 40 000 dollars a year is not exactly a wealthy person.

Edited September 16, 2021 by howerde

[EricTh]

If Thailand follows Malaysia's example, retirees are 'screwed' ....

 

The trend in Thailand is to make it increasingly difficult to approve long term visas.

Edited September 16, 2021 by EricTh

[ubonjoe]

There will be no changes to the existing extensions of stay based upon retirement rules.

What was approved in principle is a completely new scheme.

 

Edit: This news topic was posted on Tuesday about it.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1231516-several-incentives-approved-to-attract-long-staying-foreign-investors-wealthy-foreigners/

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by ubonjoe

[Boomer6969]

14 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

Must make 40k USD/year or own $250k gov bonds or real estate.

 

Don't think that's right; it is (40k USD AND  ($250k gov bonds OR real estate)). OR, OR, OR would be just too good.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Boomer6969

[Cayffano]

I am really confused right now. Will Elite Card still be available for those who are way too young for the retirement visa?

Edited September 16, 2021 by Cayffano

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, Cayffano said:

I am really confused right now. Will Elite Card still be available for those who are way too young for the retirement visa?

Yes.

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, EricTh said:

If Thailand follows Malaysia's example, retirees are 'screwed' ....

 

The trend in Thailand is to make it increasingly difficult to approve long term visas.

IF being the key word.

 

 

 

[Boomer6969]

What would make sense though, would be to can all Non O (for retirement), Non OA, Non OX, possibly Elite Visas. And just keep issuing extensions of stay for the old folks who are already in Thailand. 

 

Hence all new arrivals would be under the new scheme. That's what I'd do as I hate systems that grow like a field of weeds. 

 

This would bring some consistency and clarity, appease the [real estate] beggars, and remain humane. Unlike the proposed M2H reform, which seemed issued from some Taliban brain.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Boomer6969

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

What would make sense though, would be to can all Non O (for retirement), Non OA, Non OX, possibly Elite Visas. And just keep issuing extensions of stay for the old folks who are already in Thailand. 

Have you read the news article? How many people do you think could qualify under it.

There will be no change to the current requirements for retirement.

Edited September 17, 2021 by ubonjoe
fixed typo

[Misty]

14 hours ago, howerde said:

i thought the idea was 4 new categories being looked at in addition to the existing retirement visas, though you do need health insurance, and elsewhere  they mention it is 80 000 a year, 40 000 dollars a year is not exactly a wealthy person.

The requirements of $500k investment/$80k income per year is for the "wealthy global citizen" category, which seems to allow the person to work and differs from the $250k investment/$40k per year category which is retirement only. (If I understand it correctly).

[Misty]

14 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

Don't think that's right; it is (40k USD AND  ($250k gov bonds OR real estate)). OR, OR, OR would be just too good.

For the retirement visa, the $40k per year is supposed to be "pension" income.  It's definitely not salary income.  But since defined benefit pensions are increasingly rare - will other types of passive income be acceptable?  Say dividends, interest, capital gains, or even rents received from passive real estate investments?  How will this be monitored, I wonder?

[Pravda]

So glad I can retire under both categories.

[HeijoshinCool]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Have you read the news article? How many people do you think could qualify under it.

There will be no change to the current requirements for retirement.

.

Did you mean no change?

[Boomer6969]

4 minutes ago, Misty said:

For the retirement visa, the $40k per year is supposed to be "pension" income.  It's definitely not salary income.  But since defined benefit pensions are increasingly rare - will other types of passive income be acceptable?  Say dividends, interest, capital gains, or even rents received from passive real estate investments?  How will this be monitored, I wonder?

Anyone's guess, but just look at the clumsy way the current income validation is implemented has been implemented for Retirement extensions of stay. Also we have to keep in mind that a 80k pension, transferred monthly, during the calendar year of earning could be income taxed. Look up the tax brackets if you wonder how much the the government could make. Hence to attract "wealthy retirees" the income tax exemption will have to be clearly spelled out.

[ubonjoe]

54 minutes ago, HeijoshinCool said:

.

Did you mean no change?

Yes and it is fixed now.

[HeijoshinCool]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes and it is fixed now.

.

 

Whew....

[Hal65]

I can see some foreigners finding $40k/year jobs in Thailand.

$80k/yr on the other hand is 2.6m thb/yr. There are high level jobs in most fields that reach/exceed that number. But not a lot in a country with a $7,000/yr GDP/capita.

 

[david555]

Thailand’s new rules for retiree visas sound alarm bells - Pattaya Mail

 

However this quote part out of that  Pattaya mail Article could already be bothering many .....

 

 

Quote :

An earlier government statement last June suggested that comprehensive insurance, as well as Covid-related, would be required for “all” retirement-based visas and extensions of stay issued by Thai embassies abroad and by the immigration bureau here.  Lots of detail still to come on those issues.

Edited September 17, 2021 by david555

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

calm down farangs ….this is not aimed at you….your comments are irrelevant noise……scheme aimed primarily at getting the millions of chinese millionaires  ( thai blood & cultural “cousins”) to buy / own land & settle here ……its not always about you…..and have you not realized farangs are simply not wanted here as permanent or even “longstay” residents…oh, you didnt realize that “longstay” means extended tourist stay…… oh well…….back to your various delusions….such as being “liked & respected” in your communities here…..for other than your monetary contributions…..except for your kids of course, they cannot help but to genuinely love you…..some very few of us will qualify for the ten year residency ( why not PR) ….. some already holding PR & Citizenship ( requiring marriage to thai ) …….even this govt. cant openly discriminate specifically against farangs……although you know they want to…….

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

On 9/17/2021 at 9:15 PM, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

calm down farangs ….this is not aimed at you….your comments are irrelevant noise……scheme aimed primarily at getting the millions of chinese millionaires  ( thai blood & cultural “cousins”) to buy / own land & settle here ……its not always about you…..and have you not realized farangs are simply not wanted here as permanent or even “longstay” residents…oh, you didnt realize that “longstay” means extended tourist stay…… oh well…….back to your various delusions….such as being “liked & respected” in your communities here…..for other than your monetary contributions…..except for your kids of course, they cannot help but to genuinely love you…..some very few of us will qualify for the ten year residency ( why not PR) ….. some already holding PR & Citizenship ( requiring marriage to thai ) …….even this govt. cant openly discriminate specifically against farangs……although you know they want to…….

 

 

Yes but "We" could become collateral damage in the battle to attract the wealthy Chinese. 

 

As usual the new schemes fail to take into consideration that not everybody has a regular income nowadays (mine was about $20k last year due to it being a crappy year for UK dividends) but I have no problems bringing over/spending the 1Million THB pa they're looking for until my pensions start (in 4.5 years) or investing $250K for a decent house in a good location. 

 

I personally think they will grandfather existing 800K/65K requirements (as they did with the previous scheme) but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make health insurance mandatory so purchased the "Visa Friendly" Pacific Cross policy this year, 1 day before my 55th birthday.

 

 

[MRToMRT]

This is only just now going to the ministries for comment. In the past its the ministries that have mainly killed off proposals by making their achievement overly bureaucratic. We already have a 10 year visa that failed miserably, I do hope this one will not bomb as well.

[KannikaP]

On 9/17/2021 at 10:04 AM, Boomer6969 said:

Also we have to keep in mind that a 80k pension, transferred monthly, during the calendar year of earning could be income taxed

Pension income was earned in the many years of working before retirement. So it cannot be transferred in the year it was earned.

That's my excuse anyway.   555

[vinci]

Quote

Must make 40k USD/year or own $250k gov bonds or real estate.

another word buy a condo worth 8.5mil plus roughly

[zzzzz]

Quote

.....Must make 40k USD/year or own $250k gov bonds or real estate.

guess that says it all;  Thailand only wants old RICH Farangs staying>
I'll stick with the old rules ( an use an agent) and renew every year

wonder if the agents will be able to get this one for us??

Edited September 20, 2021 by zzzzz

[moogradod]

On 9/17/2021 at 8:32 PM, david555 said:

Thailand’s new rules for retiree visas sound alarm bells - Pattaya Mail

 

However this quote part out of that  Pattaya mail Article could already be bothering many .....

 

 

Quote :

An earlier government statement last June suggested that comprehensive insurance, as well as Covid-related, would be required for “all” retirement-based visas and extensions of stay issued by Thai embassies abroad and by the immigration bureau here.  Lots of detail still to come on those issues.

I think that might indeed be the most worrisome part. The issue has been discussed in thousands of posts some time ago and the main problems have not changed since then. It is not a question of wealth but rather of insurance eligibility regardless of how rich you are.

 

You could have a billion THB in Thai banks or own a couple of houses and not be able to renew your Elite Visa because you simply have diabetes and no one will insure you which you would not need anyway because you are able to pay any health cost on your own. To allow at least a security deposit for health purposes instead of an insurance would solve this issue (if needed at all).

 

Old non-O visa holders might be grandfathered for their extensions but as a multimillionaire newcomer you would not be able to retire here if you have some precondition. But these are the people that they would like to attract (I mean the wealthy) - or did I misunderstand something ?

[david555]

29 minutes ago, moogradod said:

I think that might indeed be the most worrisome part. The issue has been discussed in thousands of posts some time ago and the main problems have not changed since then. It is not a question of wealth but rather of insurance eligibility regardless of how rich you are.

 

 

 

You could have a billion THB in Thai banks or own a couple of houses and not be able to renew your Elite Visa because you simply have diabetes and no one will insure you which you would not need anyway because you are able to pay any health cost on your own. To allow at least a security deposit for health purposes instead of an insurance would solve this issue (if needed at all).

 

 

 

Old non-O visa holders might be grandfathered for their extensions but as a multimillionaire newcomer you would not be able to retire here if you have some precondition. But these are the people that they would like to attract (I mean the wealthy) - or did I misunderstand something ?

 

Old non-O visa holders might be grandfathered for their extensions

 

 

the word "might" or "if" keeping in mind ,.....as it is not a solid guarantee ????

 

AS last changes they did not grandfathered the existing ones  !....example  the 3 month extra keeping full 800K after ret.ext. stamped, must be still full  on bank , as the extra 3 month checking was admitted for ALL ....no grandfathering on that part 

Edited September 20, 2021 by david555

[tonray]

I'm waiting for the "Thai Netflix" Visa  scheme. Those willing to sit patiently while their GF or wife binge watches the entire "Popular in Thailand Today" list of shows should get at least 5 years.

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Pension income was earned in the many years of working before retirement. So it cannot be transferred in the year it was earned.

That's my excuse anyway.   555

That is an argument. But it says in your quote of boomer6969 ".....COULD be taxed". Confusing. Cannot be an issue of the amount because only official deductibles should count (?). But maybe this is Thailand and its different.

[Mike Teavee]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:26 AM, KannikaP said:

Pension income was earned in the many years of working before retirement. So it cannot be transferred in the year it was earned.

That's my excuse anyway.   555

[To play devils advocate] You could argue then that you don't meet the 65K pm income requirement as you're not earning any income ????