Insure your self or die

[kiwikeith]

5 minutes ago, itsari said:

Its much cheaper and that is from my own experience. That is not a secret 

If your an expat living in Thailand you should at the least get the covid cover, I think it was TIS insurance, and very cheap premium, if your over 75, the full health cover is very expensive, but just the covid cover would be good , because thats the beast that everyone is watching.

[itsari]

53 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I know where I would rather be if I was going to be hospitalised here and knowing that someone else was footing my bill, even better, you pay what you get, and if you have ever had any experience here in public hospitals, you will know what I am talking about, but then again, it really boils down to choice and who you want to look after you while being cared for, i.e. there is a clear difference between public and private here and where doctors/specialists/professors are trained, either here in Thailand or abroad, and whether they speak English. 

I have only had one experience of both private and government .

The government hospital was by far the best treatment. 

Clear difference was that the private hospitals are well overpriced and more comfortable . 

[Leveraged]

25 minutes ago, HampiK said:

I pay myself about 60'000 with 50 years.

Yep. And once you’re up in your 70’s it’ll be in the multiple hundreds of thousands per year for the same policy. 

[4MyEgo]

14 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Either with insurance or without insurance the day will finally come and we will be no more. 

At least with insurance you will get the care you require in my opinion, without it, the hospital staff might be under pressure to limit what they do, don't forget, it's a business and has costs which it would like to recoup, and no one likes to throw money into something that isn't going to return on it's outlay.

 

14 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Insurance may save your life when needed or it may just create a prison where you are stuffed up on machines while the family grieves and decides how to proceed with your estate. 

At least your in with a chance, without the machines, your gone, suffice to say all of us deserve a chance.

 

15 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Sure insurance is a necessity for some, while others choose to save the annual premium amount in the bank and let it gain interest and become self insured.

Um, in case you haven't noticed, interest rates are so low the banks aren't paying any interest, I know my bank back home is paying 0.10% for over $500,000 so that means I am getting nothing for the money I have in the bank.

 

15 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Those days however seem to be farther and farther in the past as people who had saved now find themselves having used the saved money and now require that insurance. 

Insurance is not that expensive when you break it down on a per day basis, the lump sum figure is what scares people, e.g. what do I get for 120,000 baht per year, I could use that money on other things, however I look at it this way, 330 baht per baht per day covers me for 40 million baht and 90 days overseas in another country, so I am getting something for my money if I make a claim, that said, I don't see what I am getting, but it's there, there to provide me with protection, so that I don't have to use my own funds.

 

16 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The insurance companies are the only ones who win in the end.

It works both ways, I could be paying insurance for 10 years, say 120,000 baht per year or 1.2 million baht with no claims, yes insurer wins, but so do I knowing that if I did make a claim, I would be covered.

 

On the other hand, I could have made a claim in say year 5 for for 2.4 million, insurer looses.

 

It works both ways.

 

16 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Better to have a Whole life insurance policy that will pay for all the incurred expenses after you pass

Have one of those as well and that is a fraction of the cost of health insurance, around 2% per year.

[dlclark97]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

For starters, they really shouldn't be here.

 

The problem with most expats that I know is that insurance is readily available to them for a couple of hundred baht per day, however they choose to look the other way for the price of a couple of bottles of Chang per day, they enjoy that more than an insurance policy, will never happen to them, but when it does, it won't be pretty.

 

But as Antonymous said in his above post, it's all about choice, but I will also add education to that.

Am not sure how anyone is coming up with that 200-300 baht per day figure.  That's 73,000-109,500 thb per year and may be true for the very young.  And for most Thais that would be over a months total pay per year.  If you are older and possibly with pre-existing conditions that figure is well over 210,000 thb per year and then only for 400,000 thb coverage.

[4MyEgo]

16 minutes ago, itsari said:

I have only had one experience of both private and government .

The government hospital was by far the best treatment. 

Clear difference was that the private hospitals are well overpriced and more comfortable . 

When you have insurance, you don't care what they charge, and of course I would rather stay in a comfortable hospital, it's 5 star all the way for this cat ????

 

[fredscats]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

My point being...in an emergency you 'may' not have the choice of where you end up

That will be the fault of the ambulance crew   Always post hospital wishes in wallet   No private hospital  Always found the govt hospitals Ive used are excellent,plus private hospital would drain that money pot of insurance like of yesterday  then off to Govt hospital,better to start from that   Was a guy paying 100 quid a month  med insurance,even that did not save him,paid his own way back to UK

 

" Was a guy paying 100 quid a month  med ins,even that did not save him,paid his own way back to UK "   100 quid a week  ,not month  my mistake   5200 quid a year  over 60   just    Items his insurance would not cover was too much for him,cleared off

 

Money in my pocket not having insurance multiply that by 20 years  huge saving

[4MyEgo]

1 minute ago, dlclark97 said:

Am not sure how anyone is coming up with that 200-300 baht per day figure.  That's 73,000-109,500 thb per year and may be true for the very young.  And for most Thais that would be over a months total pay per year.  If you are older and possibly with pre-existing conditions that figure is well over 210,000 thb per year and then only for 400,000 thb coverage.

I am 61, have a pre-existing condition, my premium is 120,000 baht per year for 1.2 million USD (40 million baht) which includes the pre-existing condition. We are talking about farangs being insured, not Thai's, although I do also insure my family for 60,000 baht per year with a different insurer.

 

Naturally the higher the age bracket 64-69, 70-74 the higher the premium, but 120,000/365 days = 330 odd baht per day for me.

[EvetsKram]

I'll die at home with my wife at my side.  It's a pre existing condition so no one would cover it anyway. I do have some insurance for other things but not a lot

[Leveraged]

22 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Understand, that is why I have insurance, that said, if I couldn't get insurance because of age, I would put $100k in a Thai account, suffice to say I have funds that are overseas in a bank account earning zero interest, that is just the way things are theses days and that is my back up position, e.g. if my investments crash, I will need funds, as a fall back position even though I am not receiving interest, it doesn't bother me, so if I had to put those funds in a bank here, I would, that would be my insurance. 

If you’re worried about a crash, then you bolster with bonds, not cash. 
 

End of the day for most normal people with a couple million in investments, it’s against any logical strategy to hold cash for the long term unless you cycle through bonds/CD’s/ or short term annuities. 
 

Most insurance politics I’ve looked at that cover multiple millions of baht from a reputable company that will cover you in mid-range hospitals - the premium SKYROCKETS at you get up around 60+ and exclude pre-existing conditions. You’ve gotta get in early and stay in for the long term and insurance in your 80’s is 200,000 - 300,000 baht a year. 

[cooked]

12 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Do not stay in a country without insurance if you do not have the money to pay. If you can´t afford insurance. Stay home!

Or get repatriation insurance if your country offers free treatment. Difficult (impossible?) after age 70.

[Pravda]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, its the same all over the world, there isn't really any such thing as free healthcare, its either tax funded, insurance funded or personally funded. 

I don't think any insurance is going to pay for a transfer from Surin to bangkok.

If you're unemployed, never paid income tax in your life and are on welfare it sure sounds like free to me.

[fredscats]

30 minutes ago, itsari said:

I have only had one experience of both private and government .

The government hospital was by far the best treatment. 

Clear difference was that the private hospitals are well overpriced and more comfortable . 

"overpriced" is an understatement   and a bed is a bed

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Pravda said:

If you're unemployed, never paid income tax in your life and are on welfare it sure sounds like free to me.

It may seem "free" to them, but someone will have to pay for it 

[Pravda]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It may seem "free" to them, but someone will have to pay for it 

Not me. I'm going back to Canada broke.

[simon43]

12 minutes ago, dlclark97 said:

Am not sure how anyone is coming up with that 200-300 baht per day figure.  That's 73,000-109,500 thb per year and may be true for the very young.  And for most Thais that would be over a months total pay per year.  If you are older and possibly with pre-existing conditions that figure is well over 210,000 thb per year and then only for 400,000 thb coverage.

I'm touching 63 years old.  I have $1 million coverage with an 'expat' EU company, (so insured until my death, so long as I pay the premiums, which can't individually rise if I make a claim etc).  I pay 274 baht per day....

[cooked]

15 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

Yep. And once you’re up in your 70’s it’ll be in the multiple hundreds of thousands per year for the same policy. 

Happened to me. I was misinformed (take the money and run) and shortly before my 70th birthday I was informed that yearly premiums were going up 50%. So I spent the money I'd saved on something else. I am now approaching 75, meaning another increase would be on the horizon, which I could not possibly pay for. 

[cooked]

12 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Do not stay in a country without insurance if you do not have the money to pay. If you can´t afford insurance. Stay home!

Or get repatriation insurance if your country offers free treatment. Difficult (impossible?) after age 70.

[cooked]

One solution: do you trust your wife? I watched a friend without insurance in ICU for days, dying as it turned out. It took a lot of effort to take him out of ICU.

This cost a lot of money, and it was obvious that he wasn't going to survive. Now his girlfriend has huge bills being presented to her by the hospital, which, as they aren't married, apparently she doesn't have to pay. 

BUT the hospital won't issue a death certificate, which I find very strange indeed. 

This means that the will he made can't be acted on....

There is something called a 'living will' which goes into unnecessary life support and so on. 

I'm going to get one I think.

[bubblegum]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, its the same all over the world, there isn't really any such thing as free healthcare, its either tax funded, insurance funded or personally funded. 

I don't think any insurance is going to pay for a transfer from Surin to bangkok.

Mine does

 

[Henryford]

We all die. Getting treatment in a hospital is no guarantee of survival. Many people go in and never come out.

[cobra]

10 hours ago, timendres said:

... The real risk is having a lifetime of savings wiped out by a serious illness ...

Well said,

Yes, no one wants to end up the richest person in the grave yard,  but there are essential things that must be maintained and med insurance unfortunately in one of them.

 

Even a non-life threatening event as in a vehicle accident could equal the cost of a house depending on how many days they keep you in an ICU, plus the obligatory add-on's, $30 for an Aspirin, etc.

And whether you survive or not makes no difference.

That debt will still follow you to the grave, or on to other family members or entities and hound them in perpetuity until they're paid.

 

In the west health care is basically a for-profit enterprise.

 

They only control a disease, though they could probably cure it if so motivated but no money in that.

[Scouse123]

10 hours ago, timendres said:

And how many people died today with insurance?

 

The real risk is not death.

The real risk is having a lifetime of savings wiped out by a serious illness.

Totally agree,

 

That's why I am insured to the max I can afford.

 

I offset this about the age related premiums aspect by paying a percentage of the hospital bill.

 

I currently pay the first 40,000 baht, which keeps my premiums at a decent level. When I get to 60 next year I will re evaluate, maybe pay the first 100K, to keep annual premiums affordable BUT I will be insured at all costs.

 

My idea being I would only ever want to get involved with the insurance if it was a major health issue or serious illness.

 

 

 

 

[rwill]

Even if you can afford insurance here most likely you will not be covered for about half of the stuff that can kill you.  The pre existing clauses here are horrendous.

[Gottfrid]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

Or get repatriation insurance if your country offers free treatment. Difficult (impossible?) after age 70.

Can be an option. However, as you say there is a pretty low age limit for that choice. Moreover, they also have cover for major problems and accidents. If you are uninsured in Thailand and do not have the means it can be costly to cover even small visits for a couple of days or just a broken wrist as well as dehydration. Probably all thing the insurance you mentioned will not be eligible for.

[fredscats]

24 minutes ago, rwill said:

Even if you can afford insurance here most likely you will not be covered for about half of the stuff that can kill you.  The pre existing clauses here are horrendous.

..and they will find them.

 

 

I pay 5000 a year accident,   after that bone re-setting  Malaysia or India   or book 3 seats economy  to back home

[Gottfrid]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

Its much cheaper and that is from my own experience. That is not a secret 

Ok, just give me the figures of price for uninsured foreigner for two things:

 

Lung cancer operation

Kidney transplantation

After that you are also free to write if you consider the prices cheap and it will be wise to be uninsured with a low income and no means to handle expensive treatment just because you use a government hospital. It sure sounds like you do. 

[yankyoakum]

Got a friend here who has had 2 different policy's neither cheap ones and had both deny claims over the last 10 years, supposed pre existing conditions which they stretched that terma long way. Point is just be careful, if you get a policy are over 65 make sure it will pay when required. I have the BKK Bank accidental insurance and thats only 5700 Bt a year.. as well as funds in home country in case of emergency. Also have found both private and government hospitals here quite good and reasonably priced.

[clivebaxter]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

I'm touching 63 years old.  I have $1 million coverage with an 'expat' EU company, (so insured until my death, so long as I pay the premiums, which can't individually rise if I make a claim etc).  I pay 274 baht per day....

100k baht a year at 63, better to keep it and nip back to the Leicester Royal Infirmary when the need arises. 

[fredscats]

21 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok, just give me the figures of price for uninsured foreigner for two things:

 

Lung cancer operation

Kidney transplantation

After that you are also free to write if you consider the prices cheap and it will be wise to be uninsured with a low income and no means to handle expensive treatment just because you use a government hospital. It sure sounds like you do. 

Why the hell anyone would stay in Thailand for that lot,  yes number one  a punter I knew  100 quid a week,utterly useless went back home quick quick,another same thing    did a Go fund me    still went back quick quick,wasted more bucks than soft Joe on insurance   There are many things not included in insurance,unlimited aftercare for one,specified time only

 

Just had peek at kidney transplant price  nearby country     8000 quid   think Ill pay out of own pocket thanks  then a plane to back 'ome