Government makes bold move to woo wealthy, highly skilled foreigners

[webfact]

(Photo by the Airports of Thailand)

 

By Thai PBS World’s Business Desk

 

Labor experts and investors are throwing their support behind the government’s move to lure one million wealthy expats and highly skilled professionals on long-stay visas, but netizens are worried about land grabbing by foreigners.

 

The recent economic stimulus package to invite high-potential foreigners to invest and work in Thailand has sparked a debate.

 

Concerns over land grabbing

After strongly expressing their opposition on government websites, many netizens have voiced their concerns about allowing foreigners to own real estate, including land. They argue that Thais could become tenants in their own country if foreigners are allowed to own houses and land. Some also complained that there are already a lot of nominees for foreign interests in Thailand.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/government-makes-bold-move-to-woo-wealthy-highly-skilled-foreigners/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2021-09-24

 

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[ThailandRyan]

Looks like they are willing to take a risk, the question is will there be any takes with the requirements laid out.  Maybe some high end computer folks who as digital nomads might be able to clean up while straitening up the Government databases on a contract.

[mokwit]

More "pupa" visas - you are the pupa. Think of how a wasp catches a larvae and brings it to feed its brood, once they have sucked out all the goodness the empty exoskeleton is discarded.

 

 

[bojo]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

More "pupa" visas - you are the pupa. Think of how a wasp catches a larvae and brings it to feed its brood, once they have sucked out all the goodness the empty exoskeleton is discarded.

 

 

Jeez, that's some analogy.....can't see David Attenborough telling it like that!!!

[Crossy]

The bar is set pretty high, should keep out the riff-raff:-

 

The package targets four groups.

1. Wealthy global citizen: It applies to rich expats investing a minimum of US$500,000 in Thai government bonds, as FDI or property. They must have a minimum monthly income or pension not less than $80,000 a year in the last two years. They also must have health insurance covering medical expenses up to $100,000 throughout the visa period.
2. Wealthy pensioners: They are retirees over 50 years old who receive regular pensions from foreign countries. He or she must invest at least $250,000 in Thai government bonds, as FDI or property. A minimum pension of $40,000 a year is mandatory, or $80,000 a year in case they are not making investments. They must have health insurance covering medical expenses of $100,000 throughout the visa period.
3. Work-from-Thailand professionals: They must have had an annual income of $80,000 a year in the past two years, or an annual income of $40,000 for those with a master’s degree, own intellectual property rights and have five years’ experience. They must hold a health insurance policy covering medical expenses of $100,000 for the full visa period.
4. Highly skilled professionals: They are rich in experience and intend to work for targeted industries, government agencies or universities. They must have an annual income of $80,000 a year in the past two years, or annual income of $40,000 for those with a master’s degree, and have five years’ experience in targeted industries, such as new generation of automobiles, robotics, smart electronics, digital, circular economy. They must hold a health insurance policy covering medical expenses for $100,000 for the full visa period.

The Thai government will offer four types of privileges:

• Long-term residency (LTR) visa of 10 years without the need to submit a 90-day report. Their dependents, children and spouses also will get the same long-term visa.
• They will automatically get a work permit once they get a long-term visa.
• They are subject to progressive income tax rates, the same as Thai citizens.
• Revenue from outside Thailand will be exempted from taxation.
• They can own a house and land or have long-term lease rights.
• Highly skilled professionals could choose to pay a flat income tax rate at 17 percent, or they could opt to pay the same income tax rate as Thais.

[Scrotobike]

Beware Thailand you are opening up the Chinese buying of your land

Then you truly will be a vassal state

I understand the angst

 

[Peterw42]

How do you woo people that are well off enough to live a great life anywhere in the world ?

 

 

 

[RafPinto]

Site for booking now open.

 

I doubt it will be so  quickly filled as the ones for "covid vaccines"

[Tropicalevo]

57 minutes ago, webfact said:

lot of nominees for foreign interests in Thailand.

The last survey that I read (some years ago now) showed that the majority of nominee businesses and land owners were very rich Thais hiding their wealth.

 

BTW - foreigners can own houses.

Some foreigners (USA?) can also own land - in special zones.

59 minutes ago, webfact said:

if foreigners are allowed to own houses and land

 

[mokwit]

33 minutes ago, Crossy said:

annual income of $40,000 for those with a master’s degree

I see a problem right there. Virtually Nobody did a masters degree in Western countries years ago. It was a thing that came about from the lowering of standards/everybody gets a First in the 2000's onwards. People who did Masters degrees in my day were assumed to be people who couldn't get a job on graduation and couldn't get a PhD place, people in eg Public sector who got promoted on the basis of the degree. Exception was people with good first degree doing MBA from the late 80's onwards.

[ThailandRyan]

41 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The bar is set pretty high, should keep out the riff-raff:-

 

The package targets four groups.

1. Wealthy global citizen: It applies to rich expats investing a minimum of US$500,000 in Thai government bonds, as FDI or property. They must have a minimum monthly income or pension not less than $80,000 a year in the last two years. They also must have health insurance covering medical expenses up to $100,000 throughout the visa period.
2. Wealthy pensioners: They are retirees over 50 years old who receive regular pensions from foreign countries. He or she must invest at least $250,000 in Thai government bonds, as FDI or property. A minimum pension of $40,000 a year is mandatory, or $80,000 a year in case they are not making investments. They must have health insurance covering medical expenses of $100,000 throughout the visa period.
3. Work-from-Thailand professionals: They must have had an annual income of $80,000 a year in the past two years, or an annual income of $40,000 for those with a master’s degree, own intellectual property rights and have five years’ experience. They must hold a health insurance policy covering medical expenses of $100,000 for the full visa period.
4. Highly skilled professionals: They are rich in experience and intend to work for targeted industries, government agencies or universities. They must have an annual income of $80,000 a year in the past two years, or annual income of $40,000 for those with a master’s degree, and have five years’ experience in targeted industries, such as new generation of automobiles, robotics, smart electronics, digital, circular economy. They must hold a health insurance policy covering medical expenses for $100,000 for the full visa period.

The Thai government will offer four types of privileges:

• Long-term residency (LTR) visa of 10 years without the need to submit a 90-day report. Their dependents, children and spouses also will get the same long-term visa.
• They will automatically get a work permit once they get a long-term visa.
• They are subject to progressive income tax rates, the same as Thai citizens.
• Revenue from outside Thailand will be exempted from taxation.
• They can own a house and land or have long-term lease rights.
• Highly skilled professionals could choose to pay a flat income tax rate at 17 percent, or they could opt to pay the same income tax rate as Thais.

Here is a question? If one is already here and is a pensioner and can buy a new place of at least 250k USD, house or condo and then meets the annual requirements would they be considered for this plan, or because they are already here they would be denied.  Asking because if it is only for new folks then there is an inequality already.  I myself might be interested if I could qualify as I am thinking of buying a house that I would move to and keep my current condo in BKK for my children and friends to stay in when they visit.

[Misterwhisper]

You've got to be pretty dim-witted to blow half a million dollars on Thai government bonds.

 

By the way, Thai government, in case you don't realize it: There are plenty of potential victims for you to "woo" out there whose wealth is NOT based on having earned a master's degree in anything. So... why your continued obsession with that? Particularly highly successful "digital nomads" very often are entirely self-tutored. And they are good at what they're doing, master's degree or not. Many of the self-made Chinese millionaires come to mind, too. Theirs very frequently is a rags-to-riches tale.

 

Last but not least. I guess that a large proportion of those "wooed ones" will eventually regret their decision of basically having thrown away half a million $ or purchased overpriced property once they realize that they could've had had quite the same "privileges" at less expense by going the "regular route".

 

Granted, there won't be a "special" 10-year visa, 90 day reports will be necessary, and yes, they will have to live in a rented property. So what?  It's no big inconvenience. Wealthy foreigners DO have the financial means to simply furnish an "agency" with a power of attorney to handle all their visa and work permit needs. One-year extensions on a THB800,000/400,000 "deposit" requirement are not a bad deal for reasonably well-to-do foreigners, really.      

[pedro01]

Well - I qualify for a number of these - BUT - Thai government bonds? 

 

Why would anyone invest in those? 

[300sd]

Sorry government, the place isn't that great!

[kickstart]

20 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I see a problem right there. Virtually Nobody did a masters degree in Western countries years ago. It was a thing that came about from the lowering of standards/everybody gets a First in the 2000's onwards. People who did Masters degrees in my day were assumed to be people who couldn't get a job on graduation and couldn't get a PhD place, people in eg Public sector who got promoted on the basis of the degree. Exception was people with good first degree doing MBA from the late 80's onwards.

It is a Thai thing this degree, thay think you have a degree, you can do anything ,you are the best ,and that degree will carry you though life. 

I come to Thailand as a volunteer working with Thai dairy farmers ,the people that said to me  you must have a Batchers degree, no, I just have 2 years day release ,and a general agriculture certificate ,plus one year at Agriculture collage ,the fact I have 25 years practical experience  does not seem to count. 

And that degree must be in the subject that you are going to work in ,how many people now days that  are still doing they precent job , is related to the degree they did say 20 years ago. 

Multitasking is still a lot of years away from Thailand. 

[pedro01]

3 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

You've got to be pretty dim-witted to blow half a million dollars on Thai government bonds.

 

By the way, Thai government, in case you don't realize it: There are plenty of potential victims for you to "woo" out there whose wealth is NOT based on having earned a master's degree in anything. So... why your continued obsession with that? Particularly highly successful "digital nomads" very often are entirely self-tutored. And they are good at what they're doing, master's degree or not. Many of the self-made Chinese millionaires come to mind, too. Theirs very frequently is a rags-to-riches tale.

 

Last but not least. I guess that a large proportion of those "wooed ones" will eventually regret their decision of basically having thrown away half a million $ or purchased overpriced property once they realize that they could've had had quite the same "privileges" at less expense by going the "regular route".

 

Granted, there won't be a "special" 10-year visa, 90 day reports will be necessary, and yes, they will have to live in a rented property. So what?  It's no big inconvenience. Wealthy foreigners DO have the financial means to simply furnish an "agency" with a power of attorney to handle all their visa and work permit needs. One-year extensions on a THB800,000/400,000 "deposit" requirement are not a bad deal for reasonably well-to-do foreigners, really.      

I have been a "digital nomad" since 2014 - and I left school at 18. No degree, no masters degree but I have helped a few people out with their Phds in my field.

 

If you are earning the money - I don't see how the degree is relevant - unless you are a doctor or something. In my field - a degree over 3/4 years ended up worth way less that experience of 3/4 years, so not doing one was a benefit at the time. 

 

Right now, I have to show up at immigration every 2 years or so - everything else is done for me and quite legally. It's just immigration want to see my face now and again (which, I presume they regret immediately).

 

Someone like me already has the ability to sit where they want on the planet - knowing all this "visa stuff" is simply a matter of finding someone that knows how to fill out the paperwork in that specific place. The rules - however convoluted they are, don't impact me because it's not my job. So in all countries - your ability to stay and the complexity of the rules are an irrelevance - because this is why lawyers exist. 

 

I can't see how this will attract someone like me - because people that are self-employed, with their own online business will live in the place that suits them, the place they like. The visas etc are simply a thing that somebody else sorts out.

[James105]

 

1 hour ago, RafPinto said:

Site for booking now open.

 

I doubt it will be so  quickly filled as the ones for "covid vaccines"

We can apply already?  Where is this alleged site, I'd quite like to see how convoluted this process is.

[Longwood50]

The first question is

Why would wealthy foreigners choose Thailand.  The wealthy have no problem in selecting numerous locations around the globe.  In recent years and it continues today, there have been more burdens placed on foreigners to reside here in Thailand. 
I seriously doubt that making wine and cigars cheaper to purchase here is going to tip the scales towards Thailand. 

In terms of foreigners owning land here, I am actually against it.  I suspect that if you allow foreigners to come in you will soon see the majority of Thai's priced out of owning a home.   In the Caribbean the stores and shops that once were owned by the local populations are now owned and run by foreigners the majority of which are from India.   If you look at Hawaii in the USA, a huge proportion of the property there is owned by the Japanese and Chinese.  The local Hawaiian population is priced out by the mega millionaires who bid up the price.  Its great if you are a seller but essentially what you are doing is selling your country and the control of it to foreigners to the detriment of the future generations of Thai's 

[simon43]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

I see a problem right there. Virtually Nobody did a masters degree in Western countries years ago. It was a thing that came about from the lowering of standards/everybody gets a First in the 2000's onwards. People who did Masters degrees in my day were assumed to be people who couldn't get a job on graduation and couldn't get a PhD place, people in eg Public sector who got promoted on the basis of the degree. Exception was people with good first degree doing MBA from the late 80's onwards.

I got my MSc in Space Technology in 1985.  I opted not to take a PhD, because the latter usually resulted in academic sector employment, whilst I preferred to work in industry.  Strange that all these years later, I am now self-employed as a teacher ????

Edited September 24, 2021 by simon43

[The Cipher]

You know based on the criteria outlined in the article, this looks like a pretty good visa option. 10 year validity with no annoying reporting and revenue outside Thailand exempted from taxation? Nice! I really think I'll apply for this.

 

I still think that letting foreigners own land is a mistake, but if they insist then I guess it would be a shame not to oblige them.

[khunPer]

Apart from the unpredictable Chinese, I think that global citizens, and wealthy retirees, fulfilling the requirements have multiple other choices to choose from around the World; choices that they might well rate higher than Thailand.

 

Working people with a higher education, who wish to move out from their home country, also have uncountable excellent choices for career in the big world. Some might come, but - apart from unpredictable Chinese - probably not many more Westerners than those already chose to work here. There are already skilled high educated people working for a high salary, employed in major- and multinational companies operating in Thailand right now.

 

Digital nomads also have multiple choices around the World, and when demanding an income level and an educational degree - where I admit that in many places $40,000 is not an extremely high salary for highly skilled specialists - they might target beyond the typical digital nomad, which to my knowledge mainly are self taught people that are often thinking little outside the box - isn't that how the core of today's digital world was once created by folks not finishing an education, but instead burned for their ideas...????

 

Improving education system with high skilled teachers with a degree might mainly be a question of paying them the right attractive salary. And it need in my view to begin from the very bottom of the school-system, because if the students don't have basic skills, how will they manage to cope at higher levels? Skilled teachers with a degree might not be tempted in high numbers by an around 35,000 baht salary a month.

????

[ThomasThBKK]

44 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

You've got to be pretty dim-witted to blow half a million dollars on Thai government bonds.

 

By the way, Thai government, in case you don't realize it: There are plenty of potential victims for you to "woo" out there whose wealth is NOT based on having earned a master's degree in anything. So... why your continued obsession with that? Particularly highly successful "digital nomads" very often are entirely self-tutored. And they are good at what they're doing, master's degree or not. Many of the self-made Chinese millionaires come to mind, too. Theirs very frequently is a rags-to-riches tale.

 

Last but not least. I guess that a large proportion of those "wooed ones" will eventually regret their decision of basically having thrown away half a million $ or purchased overpriced property once they realize that they could've had had quite the same "privileges" at less expense by going the "regular route".

 

Granted, there won't be a "special" 10-year visa, 90 day reports will be necessary, and yes, they will have to live in a rented property. So what?  It's no big inconvenience. Wealthy foreigners DO have the financial means to simply furnish an "agency" with a power of attorney to handle all their visa and work permit needs. One-year extensions on a THB800,000/400,000 "deposit" requirement are not a bad deal for reasonably well-to-do foreigners, really.      

 

Yeah i/friends went through these stuff before elsewhere and the difference is that you are normally allowed to sell the bonds or real estate after 3-5 years and KEEP THE VISA/RESIDENCY/PASSPORT.

 

 

This doesn't seem the case here, which makes this whole program <deleted>. 

 

Gov bonds are basically a bet on thai bath continuing to exist with lousy interest rate and blabla, a bad investment for every normal person. 

 

Elite visa for 1 mio thb 20 years without all this baggage seems better, and just use the usual work around for land... doesnt matter if u have thai family anyway.

 

I am also self employed, college dropout that is running his own business since forever... their obsession with master degrees is stupid, plenty of "rich farmers" etc. out there too.

Edited September 24, 2021 by ThomasThBKK

[The Cipher]

I closed this thread but reopened it just to say that the more I think about it, the more I think that these visas are a good deal.

 

Groups 2 and 3 especially seem to offer great value. Group 1's not bad either.

 

If you guys genuinely don't think that there will be takers for these, I kinda think you just might not be the target demographic. Based on what's been revealed so far, these are pretty attractive.

[khunpa]

I could just imagine the headache of applying for one of these visa-schemes. 
 

First of all you would be dealing with different interpretations of the law, depending on which area of Thailand you live in. Then you will have the hassle of dealing with “some” corrupt officials, when they find out you have a lot of money. 
 

Much better for any rich people to just buy the Elite Visa to avoid headaches, corruption and risk losing all your money.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by khunpa

[khunpa]

5 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

I closed this thread but reopened it just to say that the more I think about it, the more I think that these visas are a good deal.

 

Groups 2 and 3 especially seem to offer great value. Group 1's not bad either.

 

If you guys genuinely don't think that there will be takers for these, I kinda think you just might not be the target demographic. Based on what's been revealed so far, these are pretty attractive.

Yes on paper they could sound good, but in real-life applying for one, could end up being a huge headache for many.

 

Besides that you are facing constant political instability here. At any point they can change the rules.

Edited September 24, 2021 by khunpa

[Misterwhisper]

28 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Digital nomads also have multiple choices around the World, and when demanding an income level and an educational degree - where I admit that in many places $40,000 is not an extremely high salary for highly skilled specialists - they might target beyond the typical digital nomad, which to my knowledge mainly are self taught people that are often thinking little outside the box - isn't that how the core of today's digital world was once created by folks not finishing an education, but instead burned for their ideas...????

You forgot one crucial aspect that defines digital nomads. The word "nomad" is a hint. These people love moving around, never staying at one place for very long. Highly skilled, they can work anywhere in the world as long as they have access to a good internet connection.

 

I know several digital nomads personally. One of them spent a couple of months in Kiev, then moved on to Estonia for a few weeks. Then flew from there to Thailand and on to Vietnam. Next time I hear from him, he had reached Buenos Aires just as Covid struck and basically pinned him down there. Otherwise he would be god knows where by now.

 

The points I am trying to make are:

- why would digital nomads want to buy property in Thailand?

- why would they want to park $500,000 in government bonds in exchange for a 10-year visa?

- why would they be concerned with applying for work permits or paying "the same income tax as locals"? (my acquaintance assured me that he never bothered with work permits nor income tax payments ANYWHERE he went)

 

So if the Thai government banks on tens of thousands of digital nomads swamping the country in order to take advantage of their half-cooked "wooing" scheme, all I can say to them is "good luck with your delusional pipe dream".    

[khunPer]

2 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

You forgot one crucial aspect that defines digital nomads. The word "nomad" is a hint. These people love moving around, never staying at one place for very long. Highly skilled, they can work anywhere in the world as long as they have access to a good internet connection.

Thanks, and yes - I fully agree - I was merely focusing on the aspect of the government's wishful thinking, where the nomad banging his/hers tent pegs or poles more permanently into Thai soil...????

[ezzra]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

The bar is set pretty high, should keep out the riff-raff:-

 

The package targets four groups.

1. Wealthy global citizen: It applies to rich expats investing a minimum of US$500,000 in Thai government bonds, as FDI or property. They must have a minimum monthly income or pension not less than $80,000 a year in the last two years. They also must have health insurance covering medical expenses up to $100,000 throughout the visa period.
2. Wealthy pensioners: They are retirees over 50 years old who receive regular pensions from foreign countries. He or she must invest at least $250,000 in Thai government bonds, as FDI or property. A minimum pension of $40,000 a year is mandatory, or $80,000 a year in case they are not making investments. They must have health insurance covering medical expenses of $100,000 throughout the visa period.
3. Work-from-Thailand professionals: They must have had an annual income of $80,000 a year in the past two years, or an annual income of $40,000 for those with a master’s degree, own intellectual property rights and have five years’ experience. They must hold a health insurance policy covering medical expenses of $100,000 for the full visa period.
4. Highly skilled professionals: They are rich in experience and intend to work for targeted industries, government agencies or universities. They must have an annual income of $80,000 a year in the past two years, or annual income of $40,000 for those with a master’s degree, and have five years’ experience in targeted industries, such as new generation of automobiles, robotics, smart electronics, digital, circular economy. They must hold a health insurance policy covering medical expenses for $100,000 for the full visa period.

The Thai government will offer four types of privileges:

• Long-term residency (LTR) visa of 10 years without the need to submit a 90-day report. Their dependents, children and spouses also will get the same long-term visa.
• They will automatically get a work permit once they get a long-term visa.
• They are subject to progressive income tax rates, the same as Thai citizens.
• Revenue from outside Thailand will be exempted from taxation.
• They can own a house and land or have long-term lease rights.
• Highly skilled professionals could choose to pay a flat income tax rate at 17 percent, or they could opt to pay the same income tax rate as Thais.

And on that is was said that "Beggars can't be choosers" but true to to form Thailand is trying to go against such logic and still think that if they'll give this or that the world will beat a path to their door..

[itsari]

Good idea , Thailand need highly trained electricians and plumbers . That would be a good start . This would help the local labour to become more efficient at what they do .  

[pedro01]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

The first question is

Why would wealthy foreigners choose Thailand.  The wealthy have no problem in selecting numerous locations around the globe.  In recent years and it continues today, there have been more burdens placed on foreigners to reside here in Thailand. 
I seriously doubt that making wine and cigars cheaper to purchase here is going to tip the scales towards Thailand. 

In terms of foreigners owning land here, I am actually against it.  I suspect that if you allow foreigners to come in you will soon see the majority of Thai's priced out of owning a home.   In the Caribbean the stores and shops that once were owned by the local populations are now owned and run by foreigners the majority of which are from India.   If you look at Hawaii in the USA, a huge proportion of the property there is owned by the Japanese and Chinese.  The local Hawaiian population is priced out by the mega millionaires who bid up the price.  Its great if you are a seller but essentially what you are doing is selling your country and the control of it to foreigners to the detriment of the future generations of Thai's 

The simple answer is "everyone is different". Different people like different things. 

 

I am relatively wealthy, certainly way above the levels they are targeting. I live in Thailand because I like it. That is the same for most. There is no "one size fits all" wealthy person that will make the same decision on everything. That's as dumb as saying all Black people or Thai people are the same. Wealthy is not a personality type.

 

As for wine prices - the fact Chateau Neuf Du Pape is 6,000 Baht a bottle is basically a 'feature' of Thailand. Cost of living and taxes is different in different countries. I would imagine most people get that food and property are cheaper, cars and wine more expensive - and it all balances out at the end of the day.

 

There is no burden to living here. There are simply papers that your lawyer fills in for you - among other things. These are burdens for poor people that have to do stuff like visas themselves.

Edited September 24, 2021 by pedro01