Before And Now.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

You have missed out the many negative immigration issues that have happened since then, ie how difficult it is for the under fifties who don't want to get married and want to stay long time. All the unnecessary hoops you have to put up with and the hassle you get with the marriage extensions.

Do you ever read the comments and lies coming from the unelected PM and his generals? Does it not bother you being treated like a criminal to report to immigration every 90 days.

 

I do understand where you are coming from with your comments about some of the roadworks in Pattaya,  but what about these regular floods we are always reading about? I understand the drainage system is mostly to blame for that. The storm drains you mentioned don't seem to be helping much.

Don't you go out with your wife/GF to restaurants for a meal? Does it not bother you about the draconian alcohol rules? etc, etc.

Too busy earning money to retire in LOS to want to live there under 50. I'd never want to work there anyway.

Never used marriage for extension. Retirement extension was a breeze if using an agency.

Never felt like a criminal in LOS. 90 day report was 4 days a year. No big deal.

Didn't care who ran the country as long as it wasn't Thaksin. Didn't affect me.

If floods had affected me I'd have moved. I rented and didn't own so easy peasy to do.

Alcohol rules didn't affect me, and my wife had to buy her own. I didn't care if she couldn't get alcohol. Most restaurants were fine, but I didn't eat at Dukes.

[Boarn]

16 years ago I arrived, remember going for a walk to witness the coup taking Taksin out, everything looked the same on the streets apart from the odd military vehicle, was rather disappointed not to see anything more extreme. 

 

Don't care for the politics in any way, who ever it is they're not going to make it a mission to bring prices in Lower Sukhumvit back to where they should be so I don't care.

[NoshowJones]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Too busy earning money to retire in LOS to want to live there under 50. I'd never want to work there anyway.

Never used marriage for extension. Retirement extension was a breeze if using an agency.

Never felt like a criminal in LOS. 90 day report was 4 days a year. No big deal.

Didn't care who ran the country as long as it wasn't Thaksin. Didn't affect me.

If floods had affected me I'd have moved. I rented and didn't own so easy peasy to do.

Alcohol rules didn't affect me, and my wife had to buy her own. I didn't care if she couldn't get alcohol. Most restaurants were fine, but I didn't eat at Dukes.

"Never felt like a criminal in LOS. 90 day report was 4 days a year. No big deal"  doing the 90 day report.

It is not a hassle for me, the IO office is 50Ks from me, but so is the nearest Makro where I go about once a month

I just don't like being told I must report to someone just for the sake of other peoples power trips.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, possum1931 said:

"Never felt like a criminal in LOS. 90 day report was 4 days a year. No big deal"  doing the 90 day report.

It is not a hassle for me, the IO office is 50Ks from me, but so is the nearest Makro where I go about once a month

I just don't like being told I must report to someone just for the sake of other peoples power trips.

Sorry, but wasn't it your choice to live 50km from them?

IMO such things as 90 day report and extension hassle are the price to live in LOS. Nothing is ever 100% perfect or easy.

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sorry, but wasn't it your choice to live 50km from them?

IMO such things as 90 day report and extension hassle are the price to live in LOS. Nothing is ever 100% perfect or easy.

When I first came here, I wasn't interested where the IO office is, all I had to do was go on a nice pleasant day trip of about 180Ks every 90 days to the border for a stamp. 

"Nothing is ever 100% perfect or easy". That is true and I do not expect it to be, but I do expect fairness, and compulsory reporting to anyone just because authorities like their power trips is not fairness.

 

[newnative]

46 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

You have missed out the many negative immigration issues that have happened since then, ie how difficult it is for the under fifties who don't want to get married and want to stay long time. All the unnecessary hoops you have to put up with and the hassle you get with the marriage extensions.

Do you ever read the comments and lies coming from the unelected PM and his generals? Does it not bother you being treated like a criminal to report to immigration every 90 days.

 

I do understand where you are coming from with your comments about some of the roadworks in Pattaya,  but what about these regular floods we are always reading about? I understand the drainage system is mostly to blame for that. The storm drains you mentioned don't seem to be helping much.

Don't you go out with your wife/GF to restaurants for a meal? Does it not bother you about the draconian alcohol rules? etc, etc.

     The only 'negative immigration issues' for me since 2010 is the requirement to have Thai health insurance with my visa type.   800,000 baht in the bank was required in 2010 and it still is.  No change there.  I  don't like the 90 day reporting and would like to see that abolished, and the paperwork for the yearly extensions streamlined. 

    I'd like to see much more flexibility with how people meet the income requirements, the 50 year age limit abolished,  and the same policies put into place at all the immigration offices.  Why do expats on Phuket not need the health insurance with the same visa I have, for instance?   I realize others may have challenging 'immigration issues' but I was reporting on my experience in Thailand since 2010, not that of others.

   Let's see. What else.  Right, lies from politicians.  Well, I could have been in the US and suffered the--what was it--20,000 lies Trump told.  Or the current endless lies in the US from politicians and others regarding being vaccinated or not.  At least here the lies are much more entertaining. 

   With regard to Pattaya infrastructure, of course more work is needed and, of course, there are still problem areas.  Pattaya is not alone with street flooding, something that seems to be forgotten. I was in Bangkok this past weekend and there was road flooding near my condo.  No place is perfect.  New York City had bad flooding awhile ago.

  I am encouraged by the work that has been done in Pattaya, some of which I mentioned, and the work that I still see being done.   I think if you are living in Thailand you need to learn to 'grade on a curve'.  If not, you will likely be unhappy with things not always measuring up to what you might have expected in your home country.  

      Yes, my partner and I eat out and yes, we do not like the alcohol ban.  Or covid, or red zones, or deep red zones, or masks, or slathering on hand sanitizer, or travel bans, or curfews, or quarantines, or pool and gym closings, or . . .   But, we are hopeful that things are opening up, vaccinations continue, and, fingers crossed, maybe we can take an international trip somewhere for Christmas.  

[NoshowJones]

6 minutes ago, newnative said:

     The only 'negative immigration issues' for me since 2010 is the requirement to have Thai health insurance with my visa type.   800,000 baht in the bank was required in 2010 and it still is.  No change there.  I  don't like the 90 day reporting and would like to see that abolished, and the paperwork for the yearly extensions streamlined. 

    I'd like to see much more flexibility with how people meet the income requirements, the 50 year age limit abolished,  and the same policies put into place at all the immigration offices.  Why do expats on Phuket not need the health insurance with the same visa I have, for instance?   I realize others may have challenging 'immigration issues' but I was reporting on my experience in Thailand since 2010, not that of others.

   Let's see. What else.  Right, lies from politicians.  Well, I could have been in the US and suffered the--what was it--20,000 lies Trump told.  Or the current endless lies in the US from politicians and others regarding being vaccinated or not.  At least here the lies are much more entertaining. 

   With regard to Pattaya infrastructure, of course more work is needed and, of course, there are still problem areas.  Pattaya is not alone with street flooding, something that seems to be forgotten. I was in Bangkok this past weekend and there was road flooding near my condo.  No place is perfect.  New York City had bad flooding awhile ago.

  I am encouraged by the work that has been done in Pattaya, some of which I mentioned, and the work that I still see being done.   I think if you are living in Thailand you need to learn to 'grade on a curve'.  If not, you will likely be unhappy with things not always measuring up to what you might have expected in your home country.  

      Yes, my partner and I eat out and yes, we do not like the alcohol ban.  Or covid, or red zones, or deep red zones, or masks, or slathering on hand sanitizer, or travel bans, or curfews, or quarantines, or pool and gym closings, or . . .   But, we are hopeful that things are opening up, vaccinations continue, and, fingers crossed, maybe we can take an international trip somewhere for Christmas.  

Very interesting post thank you. 

[nobodysfriend]

1995 the women were more slim .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by nobodysfriend

[zzaa09]

4 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

1995 the women were more slim .

 

Those generations.

 

 

 

 

 

[Acharn]

Well, I was stationed at the Army port at Sattahip from 1971-3, married a bar girl, and spent nine years in The States and then Germany. Retired and came back permanently in 1982. I have to say I liked the '70s. It had a freewheeling feeling like the Wild West. You had "communist" insurrections going on in the Northeast and the South, the army was deforesting the Northeast as part of their campaign, generals and even colonels were getting rich from illegal logging and the cleared land was available to anybody willing to work hard enough to farm it. There were even ways to establish legal ownership of the land, but it was still a patron/client society, with power held by local "godfathers." Thailand had had military dictators at that point for 25 years. When I came back permanently in 1982, former Gen. Prem Tinsulanond had been appointed Prime Minister by the Revolutionary Council, the military junta that had been running things since the counter-revolution of 1976 and there was almost no open corruption. He forced elections and a blatantly corrupt former general became the "civilian" Prime Minister. His cabinet was so visibly corrupt the people welcomed the coup in 1989 but protested so strongly when Gen.
Suchinda tried to establish a dictatorship that the junta appointed a businessman, Anand Panyarachun, Prime Minister. Like Prem, he was completely honest and competent, and the country prospered. After him were a series of tolerably corrupt governments, until Thaksin Shinawatra was elected. Most upper and middle class Thais will violently disagree with me, but he was the best Prime Minister of the whole period. I admit he was blatantly corrupt, but he offended the elite because he shifted the graft to a different set of families than had been in control for so long. He enacted populist reforms that led to an explosion of prosperity in the countryside that has led to Thailand now being a poor first world country. His reforms were so popular that the dictatorships that have followed have not dared to do away with them, so that now any Thai city is only distinguishable from an American town by the temples. I think the '70s and '80s were more fun, but now we have a lot more creature comforts and conveniences. We're in kind of an awkward transition now. PM Prayut was not a particularly bad dictator, and has not been a particularly bad "civilian" Prime Minister, but he lacks charisma and is boring. I look forward to whatever comes next.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Acharn

[Acharn]

On 10/3/2021 at 5:24 PM, Skeptic7 said:

Sure. Thailand was the epitome of Old Asian Charm and "Innocence". It didn't take itself overly seriously until Taksin in the early 2000s. Attitudes were better. Smiles were abundant and genuine. Jai Yen, Mai Pen Rai and Sabai Sabai were the national mottos. And mostly, there were WAY fewer tourists back then. A Westerner was a novelty and welcomed sight. It truly was Land of Smiles AND Amazing Thailand back then.

 

It's still pretty good, but nothing like back then. Glad I was here for it and still glad to be here...but back then it was Fan-<deleted>-Tastic! ????

I remember one year while I was stationed at the Pentagon, I took leave to come back and visit my wife, probably 1979 or 1980. My wife had sent her daughter to stay with some relatives or friends in Lop Buri and we went to pick her up to stay with us while I was here. Lop Buri was where  Special Forces had their base during training Thai Army people, but they were pulled out in 1975, and most of the people there had never seen a farang. Even when the SF were there they rarely went off base because Thais in those days had no bars or pubs -- they did their drinking in restaurants without entertainment. Anyway, the kids had never seen skin as white as mine, and one, maybe six or seven years old, was brave enough to come up and rub my forearm to see if the white came off. Yeah, there was much more opportunity for your average Thai in those days because of the deforesting of the Northeast opening up so much land. It was like the Wild West in many ways. The atmosphere was buoyant.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Acharn

[473geo]

7 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Yes, I think you make a good point here.

Not really I get a notification every time money is taken from my accounts, I have an approval method on my phone also.

All my COE Flight info quarantine data covid tests, held on my phone. 

I think you guys don't wish to see the obvious benefits, in fact reading your posts it would appear you have a similar affliction regarding Thailand.

Edited October 4, 2021 by 473geo

[mosan]

1 hour ago, Acharn said:

I remember one year while I was stationed at the Pentagon, I took leave to come back and visit my wife, probably 1979 or 1980. My wife had sent her daughter to stay with some relatives or friends in Lop Buri and we went to pick her up to stay with us while I was here. Lop Buri was where  Special Forces had their base during training Thai Army people, but they were pulled out in 1975, and most of the people there had never seen a farang. Even when the SF were there they rarely went off base because Thais in those days had no bars or pubs -- they did their drinking in restaurants without entertainment. Anyway, the kids had never seen skin as white as mine, and one, maybe six or seven years old, was brave enough to come up and rub my forearm to see if the white came off. Yeah, there was much more opportunity for your average Thai in those days because of the deforesting of the Northeast opening up so much land. It was like the Wild West in many ways. The atmosphere was buoyant.

I don't know about Lop Buri, but back in '72 -'74 I was stationed in both Ubon Ratchathani and Udon Thani and had friends at NKP, U-Tapao and Korat and even out in the boonies 72 Kilometers away from the bases where most of our girlfriends really came from, there were bars for Thais We crashed the party and drank with them. Among us were White guys, African Americans, Mexican Americans, and one Asian American. We work traveled to the other bases and partied together and I don't remember too many Thais being head over heels with White, Black, Brown, or Yellow Airmen because we had at least one of each in the group. Heck even back then, even though most Thais in the Northeast were very brown, they still had very light and very dark skin people. Must have been very different with the Army...I'm just sayin'

[gk10012001]

I first went to Thailand in 2004.  I was elated they had an elected PM. Then a re-elected PM.  Then the coup in 2006 to me signaled the down fall.  In this day and age of mass communication, it was sad to see a military take over a country.  Thailand will not see free elections in my lifetime is my belief. 

[gk10012001]

There are two things I hate that have changed since my first visit in 2004.

 

1:  USA embassy stopping income letter affidavits. Gosh what a pain to have to do monthly transfers, make sure Thai banks get transfers encoded properly, etc.  Can't really blame Thailand for this unless they have  pressured the embassies to stop it.

2:  The extra Health insurance needed for OA visas and probably others including O visas soon.  I have fine global insurance but there is no way I can get the signatures ane exemption form signed off to say that qualifies.

 

90 day reports are silly and one report at the one year renewal time should be more than sufficient.

 

  There are many other changes I don't like but I never expected things to remain the same for decades and none are deal breakers as much as I hate the Police being not really run by civilian control, being under the thumb of the military, no proper court system to help foreigners, etc

[2009]

7 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

1995 the women were more slim .

 

 

 

 

 

 

HIV was nuts back then.

 

Just saying.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

zz: just calling it as it is …. not criticising or suggesting any imposed changes.

yet you have somehow jumped (humourously) to criticism & “civilising change”.

actually that change process would be required for modernization (as done by Japan ) …..

but wont ever happen here…….no capability…..not calling for it either….

though I pity the lower 90% locals betrayed by their corrupt leaders……bur ‘twas ever thus….

here exists roughly the same situation as UK working class 100 years ago….

[In Full Agreement]

23 hours ago, Acharn said:

Yeah, there was much more opportunity for your average Thai in those days because of the deforesting of the Northeast opening up so much land. It was like the Wild West in many ways. The atmosphere was buoyant.

 

There you have it.   

 

Maybe that's  the answer;  get rid of all environmental legislation world wide.     ????

 

Bring back the good times?

[zzaa09]

I still prefer the 1970s.

Less Farang and even lesser Farang influence. 

The good old days.

Civilised.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/4/2021 at 7:07 PM, possum1931 said:

When I first came here, I wasn't interested where the IO office is, all I had to do was go on a nice pleasant day trip of about 180Ks every 90 days to the border for a stamp. 

"Nothing is ever 100% perfect or easy". That is true and I do not expect it to be, but I do expect fairness, and compulsory reporting to anyone just because authorities like their power trips is not fairness.

 

IMO it's always a bad idea to expect fairness in life. I have rarely experienced it from other people and very often not at all from officialdom.

If a 90 day report is the worst thing that happens to you in your life, you are blessed, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

There you have it.   

 

Maybe that's  the answer;  get rid of all environmental legislation world wide.     ????

 

Bring back the good times?

Might as well for all the good it's done. Oceans polluted to the point of extinction of fish, rainforests disappearing at an ever increasing rate, greed runs rampant in the exploitation of anything that makes a buck.

Saving a tree here and there in wealthy western countries is hardly saving the human species from being polluted into extinction, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/5/2021 at 3:18 AM, gk10012001 said:

90 day reports are silly and one report at the one year renewal time should be more than sufficient.

IMO they were probably created to correct a situation that existed then, but are kept now to remind us that we are "guests" that are only tolerated, and IMO not really welcome.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/5/2021 at 3:12 AM, gk10012001 said:

I first went to Thailand in 2004.  I was elated they had an elected PM. Then a re-elected PM.  Then the coup in 2006 to me signaled the down fall.  In this day and age of mass communication, it was sad to see a military take over a country.  Thailand will not see free elections in my lifetime is my belief. 

Assuming you are a foreigner, and not a Thai, I don't get why you would be "elated" by whoever runs the country. You don't get to vote.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:31 AM, Acharn said:

After him were a series of tolerably corrupt governments, until Thaksin Shinawatra was elected. Most upper and middle class Thais will violently disagree with me, but he was the best Prime Minister of the whole period.

Don't know about the Thais, but I violently disagree with you. IMO Thaksin was the worst thing that ever happened to Thailand since the 1930s.

You appear to believe Chuan Leekpai was corrupt. That's not how I remember him, and IMO that was the high point of modern Thailand. IMO since Thaksin was elected LOS has been on a slow but gradual downhill slope to some unknown existence, if the Chinese don't change things to something more to their liking.

 

Just as one example of Thaksin's bad leadership, Swampy could have been as good as Changi, instead of the dump it turned out to be, for the usual reason.

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 10/3/2021 at 10:31 AM, crazykopite said:

most are in debt up to there eyeballs 

of  mostly their own doing, when Thais  accept they are responsible for themselves maybe theyll finally get on with a decent  future

[rott]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:40 AM, possum1931 said:

I do know that in the 2 or 3 years leading up to the pandemic that if you walked up or down Sukhumvit Road between Soi 3 and Asoke, you would see very few Westerners, day or night, which would tell you that government issues as well as it being harder to find well paid work have prevented many longstay tourists and expats coming to Thailand.

,

Anyone who has been here over 15 years will probably have a different lifestyle, different attitudes, different opinions and different needs to those at the beginning. 

 

I do not personally know anyone who has gone back through choice but I do not doubt that many have. 

 

Two people have said to me that the only thing keeping them here is their marriages and that if that finished they would be gone. 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, rott said:

Anyone who has been here over 15 years will probably have a different lifestyle, different attitudes, different opinions and different needs to those at the beginning. 

 

I do not personally know anyone who has gone back through choice but I do not doubt that many have. 

 

Two people have said to me that the only thing keeping them here is their marriages and that if that finished they would be gone. 

I left through choice, but only because after my marriage ended I couldn't afford the medical insurance.

I did not WANT to leave.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it's always a bad idea to expect fairness in life. I have rarely experienced it from other people and very often not at all from officialdom.

If a 90 day report is the worst thing that happens to you in your life, you are blessed, IMO.

I do expect fairness in life, the biggest majority of ordinary people in both the UK and here in Thailand have treated me fairly, the majority of bosses in any job I have worked at have been very fair to me, although there has been the odd exception, and they have always came off worse. I just treat people as they treat me.

The main unfairness towards me, though not personally, has come from authorities of some sort, I have always rebelled in some way at unfairness.

I have broke many unfair rules or law, though mainly in the UK, and I do not have a criminal record of any sort, my life would sure have been terrible if I obeyed every law or rule that was thrown at me.

It is not the hassle of the 90 day report that bothers me, there is not much, it is the fact that I have to report to anyone at all, why should I, I am not a criminal.

[freedomnow]

On 10/3/2021 at 8:21 AM, Thingamabob said:

 retired here in 1993.

Are you getting a (100th) birthday card from the Queen of England soon ?

[Hanuman2547]

On 10/4/2021 at 12:04 AM, nobodysfriend said:

1995 the women were more slim .

That they were!