arguments here about whose media is best descend quickly into tiresome gutter “ad hominem” attacks and, I suggest, require replacing with evidenced reasoned cases for Big Ideas to solve Real Problems like Poverty, Hunger, Disease, Crime, Education, Politics, etc.  Remember when those used to be Big before Identity Politics, Celebrities and “Media”took over ? 

 

Mis / Dis Information is easily avoided by rational vigilant minds going to Source Data & Accessing Finest Commentators/ Philosophers rather than profit- orientated / political- based/ small- minded/ biased Entertainment “Media”. The Impartiality rule is Important but near Impossible to sustain now. Next step down criteria for todays media then is Balanced & Factual. 

 

Look, I am a liberal conservative ( as originally defined) but freely and rationally accept the case that NY Times is old school gold standard reporting (not entertainment) and far superior to Fox or Sky, which in turn are worse than CNN.

 

Have been persuaded so only by the evidence produced here. BBC are much improved off late, perhaps looking to NY Times ? Actually now turn the sound on for CNN, at least a “decent” media outlet (Wiki / CNN Controversies, quite few & mild). 

 

Wondering though how many of you NY Times fans can also equally now accept that even Fox & Sky sometimes make legit points & are not always all wrong ? None, right ? as already evidenced here. 

 

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Meanwhile in the real world, it is the rightwing denying science, peddling horse medicines and before that bleach/powerful lights together with any number of other crackpot ‘cures’.

 

But you are entirely correct ‘unenlightened and outright propagandists/ ideologues peddling their nonsense for profit and fame’.

 

There is no equivalence here, COVID denial, ‘it’s just a flu’, ‘it’ll be gone by Easter’, ‘the old are willing to take the risk for the economy’, ‘microchips in the vaccine’, ‘they’re trying to control you’, ‘masks are an attack on freedom’, ‘mandates are un-American’, ‘public health measures are creeping communism’, 

 

All examples of misinformation from the political right wing, all examples of ‘Conservative thinking’ and all part of the misinformation that is driving conservatives to refuse vaccination with predictable tragic outcome.

Conservatism has lost it's way. I use to identify as a conservative. No more! Too many nutters are claiming this label.

 

A great audio book.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Corrosion-Conservatism-Why-Left-Right/dp/1631495674

 

The Corrosion of Conservatism: Why I Left the Right

3 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Wondering though how many of you NY Times fans can also equally now accept that even Fox & Sky sometimes make legit points & are not always all wrong ? None, right ? as already evidenced here. 

Disengenous casuistry-usually called "sophism" by the Greeks-who obviously knew a thing or two when it came to Ivermectin,bleach and the Orange Pumpkin.

3 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

arguments here about whose media is best descend quickly into tiresome gutter “ad hominem” attacks and, I suggest, require replacing with evidenced reasoned cases for Big Ideas to solve Real Problems like Poverty, Hunger, Disease, Crime, Education, Politics, etc.  Remember when those used to be Big before Identity Politics, Celebrities and “Media”took over ? 

 

Mis / Dis Information is easily avoided by rational vigilant minds going to Source Data & Accessing Finest Commentators/ Philosophers rather than profit- orientated / political- based/ small- minded/ biased Entertainment “Media”. The Impartiality rule is Important but near Impossible to sustain now. Next step down criteria for todays media then is Balanced & Factual. 

 

Look, I am a liberal conservative ( as originally defined) but freely and rationally accept the case that NY Times is old school gold standard reporting (not entertainment) and far superior to Fox or Sky, which in turn are worse than CNN.

 

Have been persuaded so only by the evidence produced here. BBC are much improved off late, perhaps looking to NY Times ? Actually now turn the sound on for CNN, at least a “decent” media outlet (Wiki / CNN Controversies, quite few & mild). 

 

Wondering though how many of you NY Times fans can also equally now accept that even Fox & Sky sometimes make legit points & are not always all wrong ? None, right ? as already evidenced here. 

 

Well put! Fox would be ok if it wasn't for the Big Five. CNN is also good, but I'm no fan of their opinion commentators either. Though they are much better than the ones at Fox.

 

I am a fan of the NY Times. Especially their in depth reports. Quality research.

 

Those who call out CNN, The NY Times, WaPo, etc as fake news have lost the plot. And stuck in their their echo chamber of fake news. Same with those who refer to liberals as <deleted>, etc. Pretty childish.

Fully Agreed Chomper. Spot On. BUT those loons are Fascists not Conservatives.Important Distinction.

Right & Left Extremes are Both Absolutist Totalitarian. 

Stalin - Hitler- Mao- Pol Pot - Franco- Galtieri, Amin, etc. were substantially of like deranged mind. Fortunately QAon & Antifa crude loons will always be fringe with no chance of even local govt. power.

However, Left in Power does allows itself to be infiltrated & controlled by Marxists and clearly has Minorities in high office NOT based on merit. Right in Power rejects Fascists and includes on merit Minorities in high office.

Wrong about Sophistry as defined. Was challenging Absolutist Views. Straight Question. No Deceit.

Greeks understood (invented) true democracy including right of free speech, speaking ones mind, etc.

1 hour ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Fully Agreed Chomper. Spot On. BUT those loons are Fascists not Conservatives.Important Distinction.

Right & Left Extremes are Both Absolutist Totalitarian. 

Stalin - Hitler- Mao- Pol Pot - Franco- Galtieri, Amin, etc. were substantially of like deranged mind. Fortunately QAon & Antifa crude loons will always be fringe with no chance of even local govt. power.

However, Left in Power does allows itself to be infiltrated & controlled by Marxists and clearly has Minorities in high office NOT based on merit. Right in Power rejects Fascists and includes on merit Minorities in high office.

Another false equivalence.

 

The extreme rightwing are represented as a significant portion of what the GOP has become.

 

The left are not in the business of undermining the fight against COVID.

 

I wish I could say the same of the GOP, it is the rightwing that has politicized the fight against COVID, and in doing so laid the path to death and serious illness for far too many people who swallowed their lies.

 

This is not about any extremist dictator you choose to name, nor is it about any ideology.

 

The rightwing have politicized the fight against COVID, have spread misinformation and downright lies against all measures to fight this wretched disease and  in doing so have a direct part in countless deaths.

 

There is no right/left equivalence here.

 

Your bogieman ‘communist/Marxist/fascist’ is a distraction from facing the failures of the right. Yes 

48 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Wrong about Sophistry as defined. Was challenging Absolutist Views. Straight Question. No Deceit.

sophism

/ˈsɒfɪz(ə)m/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. a clever but false argument, especially one used deliberately to deceive.

Would you call 4 cases plenty?

19 minutes ago, vinny said:

Investigative reporters exposes US FDA’s gleeful spreading of fake news and Twitter quickly locked out one of them?

So people aren’t buying and ingesting a horse de-wormer?

 

Hospitals are not treating people who have imbibed a horse de-wormer?

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, vinny said:

Would you call 4 cases plenty?

One is one too many.

 

And it’s not just 4 cases is it?

 

https://piper.filecamp.com/uniq/yyQHzDB8N11tCbpv.pdf

16 minutes ago, vinny said:

Investigative reporters exposes US FDA’s gleeful spreading of fake news and Twitter  locked out one of the reporters?

I looked at the FDA tweet and it made no reference to the report from Mississippi. However, there are plenty of reports about a huge jump in demand for the veterinary formulation of ivermectin. Have these reports been refuted?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/technology/ivermectin-animal-medicine-shortage.htmlp

 

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

One is one too many.

 

And it’s not just 4 cases is it?

 

https://piper.filecamp.com/uniq/yyQHzDB8N11tCbpv.pdf

You and your darned facts. Not playing fair.

Good advice. I admit that my confidence in the US FDA was low.

Multiple misleading posts and replies have been removed

 

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So people aren’t buying and ingesting a horse de-wormer?

 

Hospitals are not treating people who have imbibed a horse de-wormer?

 

 

 

 

Hospitals were treating people for ingesting disinfectant when the orange assclown and his really smart big brain came up that brilliant idea. 
 

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

You and your darned facts. Not playing fair.

Those red hat guys don’t believe in facts or logic. 

learn to read & process statements.learn to debate. no false statement from my side.asked a straight question. also learn not to obviously & ironically falsely accuse people. there is no difference between the two words. your choice is not in common usage. mine is. you also fail to properly respond to my rebuttal. then repeat original lie.learn from the beating here.unless you want to present again as a typical programmed leftie troll.

Misinformation at its finest. 

Turning a blind eye to all the warnings about a pandemic, focusing on his reelection and keeping his hotels open, Trump leads the world in the worst pandemic response. His own negligence, ignorance, malpractice, incomprehensibly incoherent performance, ignoring the experts, mocking science, dealing in crackpot conspiracy theories & giving out inaccurate information on a daily basis intensified the pandemic’s severity turning what would have been a daunting challenge into a national disaster. 
Sadly there are millions of people that aren’t clever enough to see thru his BS.

 

“Those red hat guys don’t believe in facts or logic.”

 

True , but neither do many (high profile) Dems either……

that Andrew Yang makes sense though……but who else…….. ?

22 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

Misinformation at its finest. 

Turning a blind eye to all the warnings about a pandemic, focusing on his reelection and keeping his hotels open, Trump leads the world in the worst pandemic response. His own negligence, ignorance, malpractice, incomprehensibly incoherent performance, ignoring the experts, mocking science, dealing in crackpot conspiracy theories & giving out inaccurate information on a daily basis intensified the pandemic’s severity turning what would have been a daunting challenge into a national disaster. 
Sadly there are millions of people that aren’t clever enough to see thru his BS.

 

“Sadly there are millions of people that aren’t clever enough to see thru his BS.”

 

I don’t believe intelligence is the central issue determining adherence to the lies.

 

I suspect it’s a two fold mix of allegiance to ‘tribe’, and living in a bubble of misinformation.

 

I think both these need to be in place in order to produce the full blown anti-mask, anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine adherents. 

 

I note that of the two dozen plus Americans within my social circle here in Thailand all but two are definitely supporters of Trump and/or express rightwing views that are aligned with much of what he says.

 

All, without exception have been vaccinated and many shared vaccine information on the availability of vaccines.

 

I believe the reason why they have so readily accepted the vaccine is they are not surrounded by wall to wall anti vaccine propaganda from TV and talk radio.

 

No matter how intelligent people are, if they are only receiving misinformation it takes a great deal of will and effort to think a straight path through it.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

learn to read & process statements.learn to debate. no false statement from my side.asked a straight question. also learn not to obviously & ironically falsely accuse people. there is no difference between the two words. your choice is not in common usage. mine is. you also fail to properly respond to my rebuttal. then repeat original lie.learn from the beating here.unless you want to present again as a typical programmed leftie troll.

Drivel.

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“Sadly there are millions of people that aren’t clever enough to see thru his BS.”

 

I don’t believe intelligence is the central issue determining adherence to the lies.

 

I suspect it’s a two fold mix of allegiance to ‘tribe’, and living in a bubble of misinformation.

 

I think both these need to be in place in order to produce the full blown anti-mask, anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine adherents. 

 

I note that of the two dozen plus Americans within my social circle here in Thailand all but two are definitely supporters of Trump and/or express rightwing views that are aligned with much of what he says.

 

All, without exception have been vaccinated and many shared vaccine information on the availability of vaccines.

 

I believe the reason why they have so readily accepted the vaccine is they are not surrounded by wall to wall anti vaccine propaganda from TV and talk radio.

 

No matter how intelligent people are, if they are only receiving misinformation it takes a great deal of will and effort to think a straight path through it.

 

 

 

I think local talk radio is a huge problem in the US. Misinformation at it's worst.

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

I think local talk radio is a huge problem in the US. Misinformation at it's worst.

And almost entirely owned by a single company ‘Sinclair Broadcast Group’.

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

I think local talk radio is a huge problem in the US. Misinformation at it's worst.

Absolutely.

Right wing talk radio has a much larger audience than the Fox. 
They listen to it in the car on their way to show the kids the Creation Museum where the children are taught how Noah got the dinosaurs onto the Ark. 

https://creationmuseum.org/about/

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So people aren’t buying and ingesting a horse de-wormer?

 

Hospitals are not treating people who have imbibed a horse de-wormer?

 

 

 

 

per postings by patient's families on H. Cain Awards, families are demanding ivermectin for their hospitalized family members.

Hospitals refuse of course, enraging some.

 

Also, was a post from a horse owner who couldn't get Ivermectin for one of his horses cuz was sold out at feed store. He blamed horse's death on inability to treat with Ivermectin.

 

No way to quantify from this source as selection is completely unsystematic.

Sorry, can't break my addiction to this source of "information?".

On 10/14/2021 at 3:08 AM, thailanddogerator said:

I see only one misinformation and it's the one that YOU (OP) keep flooding this forum with !

don't you have enough to think that you have the right to tell people what they can think or not ?

I support antivax not because I am against vaccines, but just to fight dictators as you who want to decide for everybody what is good or not !

 

The one consistent false or unsupported claim that I see is that vaccine development has taken 10 to 15 years in the past. Recently saw the ante raised in a claim that one vaccine took 20 years. 

People repeat this as a mantra.

Weasel words like "can take" or "as long as" abound in these claims.

Never a primary source or example for this claim.

It is not straight forward but once a vaccine has showed promise and been submitted for clinical trials has it ever taken 10 years for FDA approval?

 

Again, the question of time taken for approval is irrelevant at this point since real world safety data is now available for hundreds of millions of vaccine recipients.

 

10 hours ago, LarrySR said:

 

Right wing talk radio has a much larger audience than the Fox. 

I am inclined to agree with you.Talk radio is huge in Australia..generally compered by right wing celebrities with impressive ratings.It is probably the true "forum" of the nation to the despair of anyone with half a brain.

8 hours ago, cdemundo said:

The one consistent false or unsupported claim that I see is that vaccine development has taken 10 to 15 years in the past. Recently saw the ante raised in a claim that one vaccine took 20 years. 

People repeat this as a mantra.

Weasel words like "can take" or "as long as" abound in these claims.

Never a primary source or example for this claim.

It is not straight forward but once a vaccine has showed promise and been submitted for clinical trials has it ever taken 10 years for FDA approval?

 

Again, the question of time taken for approval is irrelevant at this point since real world safety data is now available for hundreds of millions of vaccine recipients.

 

I read an interesting post here a few weeks ago. People complain about how fast the vaccines were developed, but are ok with advantages in transportation. It wasn't that long ago that it took weeks to get from the US to Europe.

 

Advances in technology are fantastic. We should celebrate this new vaccine. Not bash it.

Off-topic posts removed.